PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[makky]

They should rename this thread to "thinking out loud". People can't post a positive one minute then come out 10 minutes later blasting the game, then 20 minutes later say they found the perfect blend then change again. Farrrrrrrrrkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.

It's good when people do post video's though with major gripes only for the majority to point out that it's not a flaw with the game

Not saying the game is 100% perfect but I think some of these forums should be vetted for genuine faults vs things you don't quite understand but still whinge about.

Sorry lads but some of these conversations are so circular and draining it does nothing to improve anyone's gameplay or enjoyment. Instead of complaining about defenders camped out, let's help chimps and klash with some edits but relating to tactic settings/formations.

Agreed.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I would call that proper shit defending myself. Sorry mate, but your indecision cost you there bigtime. You didn't quite know who to push, or which defender to track back, or even who would make the decisive tackle/block.
I'm not saying that you don't know how to defend, but that split second moment of hesitation cost you.

You completely missed the point. The hesitation by the player at the bottom of the screen was controlled by the AI. I was in control of someone else trying to cut out the cross, then the game switched my cursor randomly to another defender NOT in a critical position to help stop the goal.

Did you even read the post? It's not shit defending if the game randomly changes the control to random players then makes those not under your control hover backwards away from the ball, leaving the guy to score. It's amazing how you and Calcio just assume that goal was my fault just because you like the game. Talk about covering your ears and shouting so you can't hear something.....

I'm not totally going from one extreme to another. My initial reaction was that I loved the new patch on Pro level, and stand by most of the improvements I noticed - but just one morning playing it saw the game become far too easy. So I'm naturally not gonna want to play it on that level. But then you move it up a level and it becomes literally the most annoying game I've ever played. It's about 5 years out of date.

You conveniently don't mention the other vid showing yet another shitty animation lock up wher the player just leaves the ball behind, yet you readily jump in and make an assumption that the other vid was a result of user error rather than game issues ruining the game.

But shit defending? Do me a favour. But not to worry, I'm done moaning now because I'm done with the game. Plenty of other things 100% less buggy than this to play. Fair play if you like it, I'd never criticise anyone for liking it, so fair enough I'm done posting about it now.

 

[Northzzz]

They should rename this thread to "thinking out loud". People can't post a positive one minute then come out 10 minutes later blasting the game, then 20 minutes later say they found the perfect blend then change again. Farrrrrrrrrkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.

Fair point but PES 2012 is probably one of the most inconsistent game experiences i've had in a long time so i can completely understand why people are really polar about it. I believe it was Anderson who spoke about this too. It really can go from great to shit in a matter of moments or over a series of games, tarnishing the experience.

The more you play the game, the more you end up noticing that the issues keep repeating themselves and hence become more annoying over time, rather than straight away.

 

[leandropuc86]

All I know is I've worked my ass off to qualify my Nice team, full of default ML players to play in the Cup final, and I did it. I got in the Cup Final, on Top Player. And then, when I'm going to change my gameplan before the game, ALL OF MY STARTING ELEVEN is on a down purple arrow.

That's because the coach told me right before that the players "were up for it". Thank you fucking Mr. Takatsuka.

/rant

 

[Expander]

Ive just traded in pes2012,i have simply had enough and for the first time in over 20 years will be going without a football game this year.

Ive been saying it for over 4 years now that konami need to take a good hard look at what MAJORa were doing on the n64 and the early days of the ps2 with perfect striker3,and just re-engineer this majestic series of games for the consoles of today with a 21st century animation and physics system,hell they came mighty close with the rather unfinished pes2011,but one year should of seen them get it right for pes2012.

The beauty of MAJORa games was the depth of the control afforded to the end user,the alchemy of the ai,as well as the sheer replayabilty,and fun factor that also encompassed the more simulated aspects of the game we love.

Its not rose tinted nostalgia because recently ive gone back and despite the rather dated graphics,theres a real beauty to the gameplay mechanics and the core of this series that hasnt been matched even by pes on the ps2 or once on this generation of consoles.

Was it the fluidity,was it the total control of everything your players did,or was it the ai that was more intelligent and dynamic then anything ive experienced in any football game since.

Simple things like a dedicated trap button that allowed you to win the ball in the air cleanly or trap grounded passes with your feet.The ability to freely pass and shoot on a 360 degree plain and also apply elevation changes to the ball by leaning backwards and forwards on the stick.360 degree player movement that felt fluid.AI and animation based individuality as well as stat based.Full directional and power control of goal kicks and goalie throws,be it overarm or underarm.Spin and touch control that was also stat based.

I could go on and on,because there was so much depth and so many layers to these old games on what is now primitive hardware,when today with the power we have football games are so automated and dumbed down,with the graphics or in fifas case the animation being the only thing that is superior.

Somethings wrong and it has been for years,no excuses anymore,15 year old code is making the gameplay of pes2012 and fifa12 play out in a more dated and simplified fashion.Its all become to basic and simple,weve all become passengers to the gameplay thats forced on us.In the old days it was easy to pick up hard to master.Now football games take hours to master and thats it.The more you play them now the more you notice all the faults.THERES NO DEEP LEARNING CURVE.THERES NO SKILL REQUIRED.ITS ALL AUTOMISATION,AUTOMISATION,AUTOMISATION..a complete dumbing down of what konami spent over 10 years building and a complete slap in the face for the guy at konami who created the template WEPS and ea have destroyed.

Football games should be in a different dimension now,instead the games konami were making 15 years ago are still lightyears ahead.

 

[pes4lyfe]

They should rename this thread to "thinking out loud". People can't post a positive one minute then come out 10 minutes later blasting the game, then 20 minutes later say they found the perfect blend then change again. Farrrrrrrrrkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.

It's good when people do post video's though with major gripes only for the majority to point out that it's not a flaw with the game

Not saying the game is 100% perfect but I think some of these forums should be vetted for genuine faults vs things you don't quite understand but still whinge about.

Sorry lads but some of these conversations are so circular and draining it does nothing to improve anyone's gameplay or enjoyment. Instead of complaining about defenders camped out, let's help chimps and klash with some edits but relating to tactic settings/formations.

I agree I think nobody should post anything until they play the game 2 weeks solid....then make comments...then after a nw apcth..play 2 weeks solid of 20-40hrs+ then post comments.

I can be smae play fifa get mad make post, play again have great game make comment etc...its silly

 

[pes4lyfe]

You completely missed the point. The hesitation by the player at the bottom of the screen was controlled by the AI. I was in control of someone else trying to cut out the cross, then the game switched my cursor randomly to another defender NOT in a critical position to help stop the goal.

Did you even read the post? It's not shit defending if the game randomly changes the control to random players then makes those not under your control hover backwards away from the ball, leaving the guy to score. It's amazing how you and Calcio just assume that goal was my fault just because you like the game. Talk about covering your ears and shouting so you can't hear something.....

I'm not totally going from one extreme to another. My initial reaction was that I loved the new patch on Pro level, and stand by most of the improvements I noticed - but just one morning playing it saw the game become far too easy. So I'm naturally not gonna want to play it on that level. But then you move it up a level and it becomes literally the most annoying game I've ever played. It's about 5 years out of date.

You conveniently don't mention the other vid showing yet another shitty animation lock up wher the player just leaves the ball behind, yet you readily jump in and make an assumption that the other vid was a result of user error rather than game issues ruining the game.

But shit defending? Do me a favour. But not to worry, I'm done moaning now because I'm done with the game. Plenty of other things 100% less buggy than this to play. Fair play if you like it, I'd never criticise anyone for liking it, so fair enough I'm done posting about it now.

I kkno wwhat you mean as in you werent controlling the boy and the CPU AI made him move out the way when the ball was coming to him...Which is very odd.

however, I dont think the cpu doen it caue they wanted to score a goal. I think it was just random fuckedupness by the CPU not a cheat to score as the rebound falls to their forward thats just luck I doubt CPU cheat.

Often the AI of your own players and cursor movements can be odd

 

[Expander]

I agree I think nobody should post anything until they play the game 2 weeks solid....then make comments...then after a nw apcth..play 2 weeks solid of 20-40hrs+ then post comments.

I can be smae play fifa get mad make post, play again have great game make comment etc...its silly

Dude,ive been playing both fifa12 and pes2012 for three months.Pes2012 has regressed from a fantastic demo1 that had shitty keepers to the pile of turd that is patch 1.02.A complete mess and mishmash of demo2,version 1.00,patch 1.01.

Talk about niave,you cant make key changes to the core of a game through patches,that shit has to be hardcoded.All patches do is alter stats and sometimes fix bugs and glitches which generally then have knock on effects in other areas of the game.

People just want to believe the games better,its different,thats true but its not better.They had it nailed in demo1,passing,shooting,ai but only a few could see it,thats why we had the mess that was the final version and now patch 1.02.

Konami were to busy listening to the ps2 jerk off crowd that loved there assisted passing and on-rails gameplay that was to stat based and more like a trading card game or QTE.The same people that are saying pes should go back to the days of the ps2 who just want to play the same game forever.Pes2011 was a step in the right direction but was heavily unfinished,demo1 was closer to the promised land but then did a u-turn in the final release back to the shackles of the ps2 and cpu assistance which completely broke the core of the game.

 

[pes4lyfe]

Dude,ive been playing both fifa12 and pes2012 for three months.Pes2012 has regressed from a fantastic demo1 that had shitty keepers to the pile of turd that is patch 1.02.A complete mess and mishmash of demo2,version 1.00,patch 1.01.

Talk about niave,you cant make key changes to the core of a game through patches,that shit has to be hardcoded.All patches do is alter stats and sometimes fix bugs and glitches which generally then have knock on effects in other areas of the game.

People just want to believe the games better,its different,thats true but its not better.They had it nailed in demo1,passing,shooting,ai but only a few could see it,thats why we had the mess that was the final version and now patch 1.02.

Konami were to busy listening to the ps2 jerk off crowd that loved there assisted passing and on-rails gameplay that was to stat based and more like a trading card game or QTE.The same people that are saying pes should go back to the days of the ps2 who just want to play the same game forever.Pes2011 was a step in the right direction but was heavily unfinished,demo1 was closer to the promised land but then did a u-turn in the final release back to the shackles of the ps2 and cpu assistance which completely broke the core of the game.

why cant they patch it back to demo 1 then?

u think pes 2011 is better. I have 2011 and 2012 both played only few games. I thought 2011 was ok last year but played iffa 11 isntead

 

[gerd]

The biggest mistake Konami made is listening too much to the feedback (for the wrong things).
To me PES2012 is a step back from PES2011, which was quite good although it had very obvious flaws.
The latest version isn't too bad, but it could be much better.
Konami launched two demo's and has been listening to the fans...you only have to look at this thread to know that it is almost impossible to get real, clear, positive feedback from the end users...some people love it (some people love everything Konami does, there ar people in this thread who have loved each single version of PES2012: demo 1, demo 2, version 1.00, version 1.01 and version 1.02..that is very weird because the differences are huge). I haven't played demo 1, but i still think the best version is demo 2...other people will prefer demo 1 or version 1.01 or version 1.02...how is it possible to do something with all this inconsistent feedback?

Konami stop listening to the fans concerning gameplay and just build further upon PES2011...(but of course that is also only one voice).

 

[ccshopland]

The biggest mistake Konami made is listening too much to the feedback (for the wrong things).
To me PES2012 is a step back from PES2011, which was quite good although it had very obvious flaws.
The latest version isn't too bad, but it could be much better.
Konami launched two demo's and has been listening to the fans...you only have to look at this thread to know that it is almost impossible to get real, clear, positive feedback from the end users...some people love it (some people love everything Konami does, there ar people in this thread who have loved each single version of PES2012: demo 1, demo 2, version 1.00, version 1.01 and version 1.02..that is very weird because the differences are huge). I haven't played demo 1, but i still think the best version is demo 2...other people will prefer demo 1 or version 1.01 or version 1.02...how is it possible to do something with all this inconsistent feedback?

Konami stop listening to the fans concerning gameplay and just build further upon PES2011...(but of course that is also only one voice).

I do think there is an element of truth in that, but a company like KONAMI should be bolder, and not radically change the gameplay so much from demo 1 and 2 to this mess of a hybrid we have now.

KONAMI this year has smacked of not doing what the fk is going on themselves, it's like they released the two demo's to get huge amounts of feedback because they really didn't know what they had on their hands and what direction to take PES.

I genuinely think they were lost this year. The ironic part is that as people have touched upon, I loved demo 1 and 2. They were different from each other yes, but if they had released either of them as retail I think I would have been much happier than what we have now. I played those two demos to fkin death, my missus was absolutely sick to the stomach of Ribbery, Robben, Bale and Eto, and was sick at the sound of me yelling at the tv when Jelavic scored another superb header. Those games got caned.

But KONAMI didn't have any balls this year; they should have said, right this is what the game is (demo 1/2), we will listen to feedback in terms of subleties like shots, passing etc etc and general ball physics. But we don't give a toss about user input with regards to gameplay. If they were going to go away from PES2011, they should have just taken the plunge and jumped, all in.

I had so much fun trying to beat Napoli, I went a run of about 15 games once where I just couldn't beat them, then I discovered the perfect tactic against them and the sense of achievement was palpable. Man, those Napoli front three caused me fkin hours of headaches!

But you know what, I loved the challenge. The CPU would cane me, 3-0, 4-0, but I never had the feeling of injustice, not as much as when I WIN 2-1 NOW, but get pissed off cos even that CPU goal was scripted.

The game is a combination of everything now, that's why it's not pleasing anyone. It's like demo 1 and 2 mashed together, with elements of PES2011 (good and bad, sim like on times but players on rails), and now we have a further mash of patches.

I'm no programmer genius, but even I can conclude that this situation ain't good!?!

Seriously now peeps, a straw poll....how many, given the chance right now, would just prefer KONAMI to give is demo 1 or 2, and just scrap what they have now? I'd guess quite a few.

Listen I can play the game and get some enjoyment out of it, it's in the form of a highly modded 1.01 with Jenkey's stuff going on.

But even I would prefer the feel and playability of the demos compared to what we have now.

I don't think KONAMI are decisive enough anymore, it's like everyone in their development team is shit scared to make a decision, shit scared to question Seabass, shit scared to say right this is the way we are going; if half the PES fuckers don't like it then fuck them. But this is the route we're going down and they'll thank us for it in the end!

What we have is a rabbit in the headlight approach, where they are all peeping over the duvet, testing, probing, taking EVERYTHING we say to heart because they are shit scared of FIFA and its sales!

There's no logic to KONAMI and no long term thinking. Where people are angry is the apparent lack of focus and direction - why release PES 2011 and make it what it was, if PES 2012 was going to be so different? For many, what was needed was PES 2011, just smoother and more consistent, with all the shitty CPU cheating taken out. Make it nicer, then spend the other 9 months just tinkering with it to make a perfect PES2011 for PES2012.

What they did was totally change the game....well why release PES 2011 as it was in the first place?!? What, their forward planning lasts a year at a time does it? Well change it they did, but even worse than that they then changed it radically again from the demos that were served up....aaaarrrrggghhhhh.

Man, PES could really have shat all over FIFA this year, this was their BIG YEAR to get it right, they should have sensed a split in the FIFA ranks early doors and said you know what, FIFA is going to hugely split their community this year, many, many people will be looking for an alternative, now let's bring back PES and get back those lost supporters who deserted us for FIFA 09. They should have said we've got them by the balls in terms of gameplay and AI, let's now make this game accessible, let's make it polished, let's get a finished, gleaming gem out, out of the box and let's get it right for a fking change! This quaint, little Japanese, oh look how retro everything looks, oh bless them, bollocks has got to stop. It's just not good enough in this day and age of NBA 2k11, Uncharted 3, Battlefield etc etc. FIFA probably gets 2 million sales alone for having the shiny Sky Sports style presentation. Fk me, even that KONAMI baseball game they released looks the real deal...so why not making the biggest sports game in the world look good!?!?

Oh man, KONAMI irritate me so much....

Listen I'm a PES man, always have been always will be. Call me blind, call me what you want, but I can always get something out of the game. This was THE YEAR that KONAMI were going to give us something back, fk me they owe us one...in fact they owe us two, for the rubbish that was churned out at the start of next gen. KONAMI could have made a serious dent into FIFA this year, and next year could have been a serious move to parity with FIFA. I firmly believe that EA are running out of ideas with regards to their game engine, I don't think they have something different in their locker, I think they know that, but they also know that KONAMI have the undoubted ability to fk up a cup of coffee, and it's proving so again.

I am entitled to my opinion; this year I shelled out £40 for the US version just to play it two weeks before release, then a further £40 for the UK version...I then shelled out £30 for the PC version, so that's £110 of my money that is funding KONAMI. But the vast majority going forward aren't going to be like me, they are going to say times are hard right now, I have one footy purchase in me this year, what will it be? And for all it's shitty gameplay and glitches, FIFA will probably be people's choice during these hard times because everything is an accessible 6/10. It's a dull, soulless product which will continue to sell so long as KONAMI don't have any clue in which to take the PES series.

 

[dandun_tomas]

PES 2012 is probably one of the most inconsistent game experiences i've had .

ever.

I am by now used to the occassional glitches with cursor changing, insanely quick AI reactions and pressure, yet I had the most amazing experience the other day where I finally thought I found the right combination of preset tactics which would ensure me a balanced gameplay.

Then yesterday whatever I did just did not work, matches were won or lott yet I felt completely NOT in control, it just seemed the AI would decide when to lose the ball to me, when to score etc. Whatever defending approach I used did not work and they slalomed through my defence with absolute ease.

I can not decide if my learning curve has reached its max and now I experience the fluctuations in form or the game just plainly plays differently (I know it sounds ridicolous)

 

[P34SEMM]

I had 4 games last night and won 1 lost 3 but thoroughly enjoyed it.

I saw no keeper errors.

Still see the AI packing their box a bit too much but at least it was when they went 1-0 up and were defending for their lives as I mounted attack after attack.

Shooting - one shot feels good another is poor. But at least I'm getting power in the shots.
I used Lille and their forwards aren't the greatest (hazard aside) but when I used Spain, Villas shots were powerful and accurate.

I'll play some more tonight that's for sure. I didn't want to stop last night but I have work today!!

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

ever.

I am by now used to the occassional glitches with cursor changing, insanely quick AI reactions and pressure, yet I had the most amazing experience the other day where I finally thought I found the right combination of preset tactics which would ensure me a balanced gameplay.

Then yesterday whatever I did just did not work, matches were won or lott yet I felt completely NOT in control, it just seemed the AI would decide when to lose the ball to me, when to score etc. Whatever defending approach I used did not work and they slalomed through my defence with absolute ease.

I can not decide if my learning curve has reached its max and now I experience the fluctuations in form or the game just plainly plays differently (I know it sounds ridicolous)

After spending hours last night editing two teams and playing a half with and against them, I saw the difference a change in 1 in some stats effected the game. There is a massive difference of up 35 in some stats between players. I think this creates a difference in game play between them that is way beyond being realistic.

So if you play with one team against another the game feels right and also feel right at a certain speed. Then switch to a small team vs a big team and you will get a very difficult game and sometimes feel rewarded for it. Then switch to two big teams and the game will feel too fast and completely different and you need to switch to a slower game.

On top of this you then have to contend with the form arrows, which as a change of 1 has an such an effect, upping a players performance especially his movement stats by 6 or so makes a lot of players feel way too good, fast and can go past people too easily.

I am confident though that I am getting there with this patch and think 1.02 has more potential to be tweaked into a much better game than 1.01

 

[ccshopland]

You completely missed the point. The hesitation by the player at the bottom of the screen was controlled by the AI. I was in control of someone else trying to cut out the cross, then the game switched my cursor randomly to another defender NOT in a critical position to help stop the goal.

Did you even read the post? It's not shit defending if the game randomly changes the control to random players then makes those not under your control hover backwards away from the ball, leaving the guy to score. It's amazing how you and Calcio just assume that goal was my fault just because you like the game. Talk about covering your ears and shouting so you can't hear something.....

I'm not totally going from one extreme to another. My initial reaction was that I loved the new patch on Pro level, and stand by most of the improvements I noticed - but just one morning playing it saw the game become far too easy. So I'm naturally not gonna want to play it on that level. But then you move it up a level and it becomes literally the most annoying game I've ever played. It's about 5 years out of date.

You conveniently don't mention the other vid showing yet another shitty animation lock up wher the player just leaves the ball behind, yet you readily jump in and make an assumption that the other vid was a result of user error rather than game issues ruining the game.

But shit defending? Do me a favour. But not to worry, I'm done moaning now because I'm done with the game. Plenty of other things 100% less buggy than this to play. Fair play if you like it, I'd never criticise anyone for liking it, so fair enough I'm done posting about it now.

That's why I begged people to give the patch time before coming to any conclusions, at least on the higher levels. I have no idea how the game plays on Professional, none whatsoever. But prolonged game periods of patch 1.02 and on TP or Superstar and you see the errors shining through and the cheating. I've just come off the PC, where I had a 1-1, 1-0, 1-2, 0-1 games. Then the classic PES scripting kicks in, Europa League game v Bremen, beat me 5-0, they were unstoppable. I could waste my time and put clips of three of the goals that would have made people laugh, but I won't. You know where I'm coming from LTFC.

Anyways, its back to modded 1.01 for me today, I've given it my best shot, but just ain't feeling 1.02 with its far too obvious cheating.

PS The irony of it all to is that it was the first time this season that three of my defenders had red arrows and the other yellow....go figure.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Just for the record, I'm loving 1.2 patch. As for this place, it's become so depressing, I cant even be bothered to post anymore.

 

[ccshopland]

Just for the record, I'm loving 1.2 patch. As for this place, it's become so depressing, I cant even be bothered to post anymore.

Jimmy, I love reading your posts, I love the discussions you bring to the table and if you're finding the game great patch 1.02 then good luck to you. I respect you on these forums.

But, should we all just sit back and say that we're enjoying it for the sake of it?

In this day and age do you think it's acceptable that I have to buy three versions (US&UK) and the PC version (that's £110 overall), change this setting, that setting, this gamespeed, that gamespeed, try this patch and patch, with this OF and tweak file, this cam setting and that just to get the fkin thing to work??

I have quite literally spent more hours potching about with everything than playing the fkin thing.

I came to a nice blend of settings last week that was -

ON THE PS3 - Patch 1.01, with Chimps stuff, Top Player
ON THE PC - Patch 1.01, with Jenkey's, PESEDIT, Superstar

It was as close as I've come to getting something near that resembles what I've after.

The new patch on the PS3 is just unplayable for me, the game is insanely fast, and too much cheating on Top Player/Superstar

I know your an avid Professional player, I cannot tell what my opinion is of the game on professional mode as I don't play it.

I have tried the new patch on the PC, and it's mixed results to say the least. After three or four sim like games in terms of low scoring results, I just lost to Bremen 5-0 (three of which were the most scripted goals you'll ever see), and then beat Swansea 3-1. The game against Bremen I played really well lol and lost, and the second game I thought I played bad and won. The first game their players were just slaloming through my defence (three of which had red arrows and one yellow). Shots were not going as I planned.

The second game, I hit a thunderbolt thirty yarder with Stevie G who was on a purple arrow lol, Scored a goal sith Suarez which saw the Swansea CPU defender get locked in an animation running alongside the ball when he had time to clear or do whatever with it, I then took possession with Suarez, aimed bottom left to drill it low past the keeper and the shot went top right lol.

Then my third goal was scored when I hit a through ball on the wing on the half turn that went through the CPU Swansea player. I'm fair Jim, I'll write when I have been cheated, and I'll write when the scripts go for me. But this patch has more of this scripted shit than previously...

I mean WTF...

Seriously...

Listen Jimmy, I'll come on these forums all day and write reams and reams about the bad, but I'll also write reams and reams about the good. But it is my opinion that this patch has changed very little, shooting is still a hot topic on here, as is the keepers. The PS3 version is all over the place and I get inconsistent results with the PC version.

I believe that I've earned the right to state what I feel, good or bad on here, after KONAMI has pocketed £120 from me!

 

[Isslander]

It's not clicking for me yet, not to bothered tbh since I have no time for it this month. I thought they'd nailed it with the latest patch, had some great games with Ajax, passing felt good, I was loving it. then the next day I opted for Villareal and it was like the game had removed the patch without telling me. In fact it was like I had Demo 1 going on, I was trying to pass to someone 5 yards away and the receiver would just sod off and someone 50 yards away would come running to receive the pass as it was obviously intended for him by some bizarre cpu logic. I was shouting at the screen at some point. It was not good. I'm still loving it on player vs. player, though.

But yes, inconsistency is the key word here. And maybe I should just go straight to Top player and ML, that's what has made the game click for me for the last two versions, which I loved. But I feel, since I mostly lose on Professional, that Miranda and co (Miranda might be retired though) would get absolutely slaughtered on Top player under my control.

 

[nadge]

After spending hours last night editing two teams and playing a half with and against them, I saw the difference a change in 1 in some stats effected the game. There is a massive difference of up 35 in some stats between players. I think this creates a difference in game play between them that is way beyond being realistic.

So if you play with one team against another the game feels right and also feel right at a certain speed. Then switch to a small team vs a big team and you will get a very difficult game and sometimes feel rewarded for it. Then switch to two big teams and the game will feel too fast and completely different and you need to switch to a slower game.

On top of this you then have to contend with the form arrows, which as a change of 1 has an such an effect, upping a players performance especially his movement stats by 6 or so makes a lot of players feel way too good, fast and can go past people too easily.

I am confident though that I am getting there with this patch and think 1.02 has more potential to be tweaked into a much better game than 1.01

I too was playing around last not, not with stats but formations and game plans

I turned the pressing down to 7 for top teams which meant I had slightly more time on the ball.

I play as spurs and turned my own pressing down to 2 which meant I was in more control while defending.

Will try you're teams patch tonight and see how we go
Keep up the good work
I believe the perfect game is in there somewhere it's just a case of finding it

 

[gerd]

Just for the record, I'm loving 1.2 patch. As for this place, it's become so depressing, I cant even be bothered to post anymore.

It was not very hard to predict that you would love patch 1.2 jimmy...you loved all the previous incarnations...
I'm very happy for you and i enjoy reading your enthousiastic posts. I also agree that too many people are moaning too soon. This version is the best i've played until now...but to be honest, i still think it's a step back from PES2011...and the fact that Konami is constantly "tweaking" (the changes are huge sometimes), must tell you that they are not satisfied either....or at least that they are not sure about their game this year...

 

[mnj]

So I still can't find a happy medium I that I enjoy.

Professional is too easy, there's acres of space in the middle of the pitch and even offline is like a sprint fest.

Top Player plays a far more balanced game, were it not for the fact that the AI pressing is INSANE. Control the ball and you can guarantee that within two seconds you'll be surrounded by up to three to four defending players, all sprinting, cutting off passing lanes double pressing you with two players in the tackle. Five games on Top Player and I think I've had three shots on target and failed to score a single goal.

And, like everyone else complains, the scripting is awful. I just conceded this goal, and it follows every rule of the PES script.

1. It's in the last ten minutes of the game.
2. Look at my defender at the bottom of the screen. Now, the ball is played across the box, and the cursor switches to one of the other defenders. I'm tracking the ball with my eyes and look in disbelief as the AI makes this guy, who was tracking the attacker, do a momentary backwards 'hover' and basically, deliberately lets the guy in for a shot on goal.
3. My keeper saves it, but of all the possible angles that ball could possibly have rebounded, with all my surrounding defenders, it falls straight to the AI attacker's foot.

Absolute bollocks.

YouTube - ??

Call me paranoid but that's not the first time this type of thing has happened, where the AI just makes a defender off the ball run away from his marker, and it's either an awful defensive bug or it's plain cheating.

So, the option is to play the game where it's too easy, the matches are stretched out with no midfield but plays otherwise very nicely indeed, or play a more tight, difficult game that cheats.

Quick question...what passing assistance do you play on? I was playing on zero, and although it's arguably more realistic, I was struggling to get any results (and goals) on Top Player, so I increased it to '3' and am now having a lot more fun...winning some games 3-1, 2-0 etc and also drawing and losing plenty i.e. more realistic results. All in all even though it's slightly more arcadey, the assistance enables you to find that yard of space to actually create some chances, score some goals and ultimately have more fun, whilst at the same time the challenge is still there in terms of keeping a clean sheet. Just a thought.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

It was not very hard to predict that you would love patch 1.2 jimmy...you loved all the previous incarnations...
I'm very happy for you and i enjoy reading your enthousiastic posts. I also agree that too many people are moaning too soon. This version is the best i've played until now...but to be honest, i still think it's a step back from PES2011...and the fact that Konami is constantly "tweaking" (the changes are huge sometimes), must tell you that they are not satisfied either....or at least that they are not sure about their game this year..

I'm just enjoying it more than the other versions. Granted I've have very little time with it due to getting Engaged at the weekend to my girlfriend, and being away from home.

In the 3-4 games that I've played though, on Professional,-1, I found the CPU had much higher possession, pressuring wasnt silly, and the game seemed to have a much better ebb and flow to it. I enjoyed the way the CPU stood off a little more, which produced a much more open game.

I finally started an ML with Bolton, I couldnt use Boro, as for some reason the chants wouldnt work in ML with them. So after alot of deliberation, and against anything I've done before, I went straight into the EPL with Bolton. I think I'm in financial trouble already though after buying Elano, Luis Aguiar and a keeper Beneglio (sp).

My first match was amazing, my best game on PES 12 yet. I was at home to Fulham. I started Beneglio (sp) and Elano and put Luis on the bench. Fulham scored first after a mix-up with my keeper (my fault, I took control of him but didnt do much else). Then Zat Knight equalised from outside the box, he has great kicking power. He was still up there from a corner a minute prior, and as he stood free and in space I rolled the ball to him and bang. 1-1.

Fulham then scored again as I couldnt stop a cheeky dribble and shot in the box. The rebound fell kindly, and it was 2-1 Fulham. I then brought on my man Luis Aguair, deep into the second half. A ball played into him 30 yards out was asking to be struck, and with his first touch, he got the ball out of his feet and smashed one into the top corner from 30 yards. That's my boy. 2-2.

Fulham then missed two clear-cut chances and I feared it would end 2-2. In the dying seconds, I switched to Long Ball. My RB, Mears, played a pass square to Knight ( I knew he had the power to knock a long Manual High Pass) who pinged a 60 yard ball to Davies who held off the Fulham CB with his strength, then dinked it over the keeper to make it 3-2 in the 93rd minute. What a pass, what a finish, what a game.

The stats ended 17(10) v 14(9) Possesion 54-46.

It was a classic end to end thriller in the end, very EPL. I loved every second.

YouTube - Bolton 3-2 Fulham

And CCshopland, I wasnt having a pop at you bud, I enjoy your posts. It's just this place in general.

 

[ccshopland]

Quick question...what passing assistance do you play on? I was playing on zero, and although it's arguably more realistic, I was struggling to get any results (and goals) on Top Player, so I increased it to '3' and am now having a lot more fun...winning some games 3-1, 2-0 etc and also drawing and losing plenty i.e. more realistic results. All in all even though it's slightly more arcadey, the assistance enables you to find that yard of space to actually create some chances, score some goals and ultimately have more fun, whilst at the same time the challenge is still there in terms of keeping a clean sheet. Just a thought.

I agree with the above. I think, especially on the patch 1.02, CPU defences are so efficient as it makes scoring on zero assistance very tough, as that split second window of opportunity goes very quickly. I think the only way to play at the higher levels is with some level of assistance on.

Anyway to lighten the dark clouds, thoughts I'd post a few goals. Even though I'm not entirely happy with 1.02, I've still managed these with it, some other goals are 1.01, all of Superstar/Top Player, zero assist -

Goal 1 - Pretty basic, but I've never actually scored with the head from a free kick since release so

YouTube - VIDEO0056

Goal 2 - Nice move, multiple passes

YouTube - VIDEO0057

Goal 3 - Gerrard screamer

YouTube - VIDEO0058

Goal 4 - Lucas, lovely strike, direction DID work

YouTube - VIDEO0059

Goal 5 - Charlie Adam...need I say more

YouTube - VIDEO0033

Goal 6 - Lovely take from Carroll

YouTube - VIDEO0039

Goal 7 - Suarez, lovely technique

YouTube - VIDEO0044

Goal 8 - Carroll, lovely left foot smash

YouTube - VIDEO0040

 

[P34SEMM]

nice goals.

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

The second game, I hit a thunderbolt thirty yarder with Stevie G who was on a purple arrow lol, Scored a goal sith Suarez which saw the Swansea CPU defender get locked in an animation running alongside the ball when he had time to clear or do whatever with it, I then took possession with Suarez, aimed bottom left to drill it low past the keeper and the shot went top right lol.

I was edited Liverpool last night and changed the stat that Gerrard had for shot power. It was something like 96, which meens even on a purple arrow, he can hit each shot better than nearly all forwards in the game.

In 1.02 the shots are slightly harder. Adding this to Gerrards stats, is one of them things I talk about unbalancing the game and what I address in my patches.

I also reduced Suarez's stats slightly and toned down Carrol's balance and heading, which were both insane.

I should hopefully have the premier league done soon and I am confident it will be better received than my patch for 1.01.

 

[ccshopland]

I was edited Liverpool last night and changed the stat that Gerrard had for shot power. It was something like 96, which meens even on a purple arrow, he can hit each shot better than nearly all forwards in the game.

In 1.02 the shots are slightly harder. Adding this to Gerrards stats, is one of them things I talk about unbalancing the game and what I address in my patches.

I also reduced Suarez's stats slightly and toned down Carrol's balance and heading, which were both insane.

I should hopefully have the premier league done soon and I am confident it will be better received than my patch for 1.01.

Awaiting it patiently Chimps lol, cos at the moment the PS3 isn't getting touched until your patch comes out.

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

I too was playing around last not, not with stats but formations and game plans

I turned the pressing down to 7 for top teams which meant I had slightly more time on the ball.

I play as spurs and turned my own pressing down to 2 which meant I was in more control while defending.

Will try you're teams patch tonight and see how we go
Keep up the good work
I believe the perfect game is in there somewhere it's just a case of finding it

I firmly beleive this too.

After sending that file out last night, I later went back to it and did Newcastle and Man Utd. Both were overrated and the game was far too fast. Within a couple of games and changes I got them down to tremendous games running at 0 speed.

I think the penny has now dropped with editing 1.02.

 

[Expander]

I do think there is an element of truth in that, but a company like KONAMI should be bolder, and not radically change the gameplay so much from demo 1 and 2 to this mess of a hybrid we have now.

KONAMI this year has smacked of not doing what the fk is going on themselves, it's like they released the two demo's to get huge amounts of feedback because they really didn't know what they had on their hands and what direction to take PES.

I genuinely think they were lost this year. The ironic part is that as people have touched upon, I loved demo 1 and 2. They were different from each other yes, but if they had released either of them as retail I think I would have been much happier than what we have now. I played those two demos to fkin death, my missus was absolutely sick to the stomach of Ribbery, Robben, Bale and Eto, and was sick at the sound of me yelling at the tv when Jelavic scored another superb header. Those games got caned.

But KONAMI didn't have any balls this year; they should have said, right this is what the game is (demo 1/2), we will listen to feedback in terms of subleties like shots, passing etc etc and general ball physics. But we don't give a toss about user input with regards to gameplay. If they were going to go away from PES2011, they should have just taken the plunge and jumped, all in.

I had so much fun trying to beat Napoli, I went a run of about 15 games once where I just couldn't beat them, then I discovered the perfect tactic against them and the sense of achievement was palpable. Man, those Napoli front three caused me fkin hours of headaches!

But you know what, I loved the challenge. The CPU would cane me, 3-0, 4-0, but I never had the feeling of injustice, not as much as when I WIN 2-1 NOW, but get pissed off cos even that CPU goal was scripted.

The game is a combination of everything now, that's why it's not pleasing anyone. It's like demo 1 and 2 mashed together, with elements of PES2011 (good and bad, sim like on times but players on rails), and now we have a further mash of patches.

I'm no programmer genius, but even I can conclude that this situation ain't good!?!

Seriously now peeps, a straw poll....how many, given the chance right now, would just prefer KONAMI to give is demo 1 or 2, and just scrap what they have now? I'd guess quite a few.

Listen I can play the game and get some enjoyment out of it, it's in the form of a highly modded 1.01 with Jenkey's stuff going on.

But even I would prefer the feel and playability of the demos compared to what we have now.

I don't think KONAMI are decisive enough anymore, it's like everyone in their development team is shit scared to make a decision, shit scared to question Seabass, shit scared to say right this is the way we are going; if half the PES fuckers don't like it then fuck them. But this is the route we're going down and they'll thank us for it in the end!

What we have is a rabbit in the headlight approach, where they are all peeping over the duvet, testing, probing, taking EVERYTHING we say to heart because they are shit scared of FIFA and its sales!

There's no logic to KONAMI and no long term thinking. Where people are angry is the apparent lack of focus and direction - why release PES 2011 and make it what it was, if PES 2012 was going to be so different? For many, what was needed was PES 2011, just smoother and more consistent, with all the shitty CPU cheating taken out. Make it nicer, then spend the other 9 months just tinkering with it to make a perfect PES2011 for PES2012.

What they did was totally change the game....well why release PES 2011 as it was in the first place?!? What, their forward planning lasts a year at a time does it? Well change it they did, but even worse than that they then changed it radically again from the demos that were served up....aaaarrrrggghhhhh.

Man, PES could really have shat all over FIFA this year, this was their BIG YEAR to get it right, they should have sensed a split in the FIFA ranks early doors and said you know what, FIFA is going to hugely split their community this year, many, many people will be looking for an alternative, now let's bring back PES and get back those lost supporters who deserted us for FIFA 09. They should have said we've got them by the balls in terms of gameplay and AI, let's now make this game accessible, let's make it polished, let's get a finished, gleaming gem out, out of the box and let's get it right for a fking change! This quaint, little Japanese, oh look how retro everything looks, oh bless them, bollocks has got to stop. It's just not good enough in this day and age of NBA 2k11, Uncharted 3, Battlefield etc etc. FIFA probably gets 2 million sales alone for having the shiny Sky Sports style presentation. Fk me, even that KONAMI baseball game they released looks the real deal...so why not making the biggest sports game in the world look good!?!?

Oh man, KONAMI irritate me so much....

Listen I'm a PES man, always have been always will be. Call me blind, call me what you want, but I can always get something out of the game. This was THE YEAR that KONAMI were going to give us something back, fk me they owe us one...in fact they owe us two, for the rubbish that was churned out at the start of next gen. KONAMI could have made a serious dent into FIFA this year, and next year could have been a serious move to parity with FIFA. I firmly believe that EA are running out of ideas with regards to their game engine, I don't think they have something different in their locker, I think they know that, but they also know that KONAMI have the undoubted ability to fk up a cup of coffee, and it's proving so again.

I am entitled to my opinion; this year I shelled out £40 for the US version just to play it two weeks before release, then a further £40 for the UK version...I then shelled out £30 for the PC version, so that's £110 of my money that is funding KONAMI. But the vast majority going forward aren't going to be like me, they are going to say times are hard right now, I have one footy purchase in me this year, what will it be? And for all it's shitty gameplay and glitches, FIFA will probably be people's choice during these hard times because everything is an accessible 6/10. It's a dull, soulless product which will continue to sell so long as KONAMI don't have any clue in which to take the PES series.

Amen,those two demos were fantastic and how many people said they would happily play that demo gameplay for a year despite the sloppy keepers.

Its impossible to get that demo1+2 gameplay back because what came afterwards was hardcoded and is impossible to reverse with a patch.

People can call me arrogant or say i just want the game i want,but the reality is demo2 and demo 1 more so were two of the best football games i have ever played.I even remember ringing my old iss on the n64 buddy or playmate,and telling him konami had finally brought the alchemy back of that old series and the un-scripted gameplay that felt balanced and was more of a one on one game.They even tryed to emulate the continous play of the n64 days.The final game made me look like a twat and full of shit.

The long passing and crossing felt fantastic in demo1,as did the shooting and passing and the movement of your teamates was sublime,those demos just felt alive.The football i was playing and the creativity i was expressing was something i havent experinced since the days of the N64.I felt like i could genuinely control the tempo and for the first time in 11 years i actually felt in control.

Ive had my fingers burnt for to long and its going to take a miracle next year to win me and alot of people back.Theres sadly no alternative to pes though,fifa12 is boring.This is what happens when two companys have complete control of a particular sector of the games market.

 

[Robbery]

Just for the record, I'm loving 1.2 patch. As for this place, it's become so depressing, I cant even be bothered to post anymore.

I know what you mean. I'm still addicted to this years game and i'm loving 1.2 patch too. Sometimes i ask myself why so many people don't fall in love with this game? Beside the faults (every game has his own) it has so much to offer. I don't want to speak it out to loud, but probably it is the best PES I've ever played.

I could lost myself in this game, desperately trying to score one beautiful goal after another. Trying to survive against the big ones, just hanging in there, fighting and waiting for the one moment where everything come together and you score and win. This game gives me so much special moments already, great goals, famous saves, a lot of little things like a beautiful passes out of nowhere with your only starplayer, that i can't stop playing it. Of course i kicks you down sometimes but overall it is thrilling.

And sometimes i wonder why so much people don't see the same things that i see. It is not easy to understand because people don't like it for so much different reasons. It is not that you can say, oh it's the speed of the game or it's the look of the game. It is always different, shooting, header - so much opinions.

It is a little bit sad seeing so many people dislike the game, but it doesn't take away the joy i have with it. So i have no problems reading all the negative stuff. I'm lucky i love the game. So much to discover in the next months, so much different teams to play and so much unique players to handle. Can't wait.

 

[Ameppe]

please, unscripted gameplay in demos?
no way, you could already tell when the cpu was about to score against you, exactly like it happens right now

the whole pes 2012 experience until now (demos, version 1.00, patches 1.01, 1.02) has been influenced by the arcade turn made by Konami
the only good thing is, it seems Konami is costantly working to improve the game
but to me it was clear since the first demo Konami this year has chosen the arcade path after the more simulative approach in Pes 2011. That's the main element i don't like in Pes 2012