PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

One small but good thing that they improved is the auto-shielding you can do when your player recieves the ball in throw-in's, it was almost useless before as the cpu could steal from behind so easily in that circunstance.
 
Chimps-with-quiffs said:
I will have something out, but I doubt it will be in the next few days. I had a frustrating night editing last night. If you take some of the ridiculous dribbling of some players, their team poses far less of a threat up front. Players like Ibrahimovic are ludicrous with 1.02 on.

I am also frustrated with some teams looking like the game should be played on 0 speed and others feeling like that is way too fast and you need -1 at least.

Formations also need looked at, as anything that doesn't have any midfielders pushed into the oppositions half leads to the oppositions being stuck in their half. The games doesn't really work with 1 or 2 up front by themselves.
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Chimps, do you not think that your patch sits nicely with 1.02? Just had a nice game v West Brom, 0-0, 15 mins, TP. Possession excellent, game flowed nicely, a real 10/10 game it was, there were chances just not converted.

I think 1.02, zero assistance with your patch is the best that can be done for the PS3 right at this moment in time.
 
I only played two matches, both with our (Belgium) national team.
The first was against Roumania. Afterwards i noticed that i had forgotten to change the settings, i had left them like i play against my daughter (her team on red arrows up, my team on purple arrows down). I played on profesional and Roumania slaughterd Belgium (me): 5-1...and almost all the goals were errors from the GK (poor Mignolet)...this was the worst goal keeping i've ever seen...it's even worse than the first math i played with PES12 (i played with Ghan and Kingson was attrocious in that match, Mignolet was much worse yesterday). Afterwards i played against Croatia (both teams random arrows) and that was actually a very good and exciting match: 1-1 (but Croatia had only 3 shots on goal while i had 26 shots...i still have trouble scoring goals in PES2012). Judged by that first match i can only advice to replace a GK with a purple arrow down.

After two matches i'm not sure it's an improvement, but you can't conclude things after only two matches...just wait and see...
 
lons_pl said:
Don't agree:TTTH: Pes animations are acceptable. Some of them are really nice but some of them are ugly. Average is acceptable. People make one big mistake. They mix animations and technically aspect of the game with pure game play.
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It's the way the animations are linked together that really lets the game down. PES has always had many nice animations but in future there needs to be smoother transitions between them. Animations lack variety which means they often look out of context, e.g. the same passing animation is used for a delicate short pass and a drilled cross-field ball. It makes the game look jarring.
 
nadge said:
I noticed that too, played arsenal last night on -2 game speed and it was like pinball

Are you looking at lower stats again, or is it worth testing without you're gameplay patch and go from there?

Do you have the original file without you're gameplay patch? If so can you upload it so as I can test it out
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I don’t have an un-edit file, but know it would be worse without it as I have only ever slowed passing speeds and did for Arsenal, along with a lot of teams with decent midfielders.

It shouldn’t be too long before I have an updated version out, but obviously changing each player and testing it, takes longer than editing for the PC with a global editor. I had started going through the premier league and reducing passing speed and had the first 5 teams done and the speed felt right, but it became easier. I have to try to balance it out with either other stats or better formations and playing styles specific for 1.02

It’s annoying as I had 2 full weekends of playing and editing it and got it very close to how I wanted it for 1.01 and this new patch has meant I need to spend a similar amount of time again learning how to get the best out of it.
 
ccshopland said:
Chimps, do you not think that your patch sits nicely with 1.02? Just had a nice game v West Brom, 0-0, 15 mins, TP. Possession excellent, game flowed nicely, a real 10/10 game it was, there were chances just not converted.

I think 1.02, zero assistance with your patch is the best that can be done for the PS3 right at this moment in time.
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I think it works better than without it and that is what others have said too, but wasn’t written specifically for it, so there is things that need changed, the only thing is making these changes makes some teams lose their ability to give you as good a game. Play against AC Milan or Real Madrid and the game looks too fast and certain players are way over skilled at running at you dribbling.

I will get there with this game, I always do. Always the same each year, I think I have it cracked, then get frustrated realising it’s not right, then all of sudden it will click and play right. It’s just frustrating when game play files are coming out from Konami that changes it again.
 
Chimps-with-quiffs said:
I think it works better than without it and that is what others have said too, but wasn’t written specifically for it, so there is things that need changed, the only thing is making these changes makes some teams lose their ability to give you as good a game. Play against AC Milan or Real Madrid and the game looks too fast and certain players are way over skilled at running at you dribbling.

I will get there with this game, I always do. Always the same each year, I think I have it cracked, then get frustrated realising it’s not right, then all of sudden it will click and play right. It’s just frustrating when game play files are coming out from Konami that changes it again.
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Appreciate your work Chimps. I felt the game played really well with your last edit patch. I like patch 1.02 but i started my ML up again last night as Villa and the players are like they have have nitro fuelled boots on! Way too fast - esp as their speed rating is A & players like Gabby A are fast anyway. I look forward to your new patch and hope it builds on the improvements of 1.02.
 
Ok mate great,
It seems you get better games with the mid -bottom clubs eg fu
Ham west brom wolves
The top six clubs are too overpowered
If you need any help give me a shout
 
The game is definetly improved with this new patch, much more enjoyable to play.

Some complaints i had made before were very fair points, it's not about winning or loosing really. Before the new patch i had a match against Real Madrid with Lyon (professional level, -2 and 0 bar passing) that i won by 2 x 1 if i'm not wrong, and it was absolutelty AWFUL, no fun at all. But today i just got beaten by Rangers with Lyon (sam team) by 4 x 1 and it was MUCH more enjoyable play compared to Real Madrid match before patch.
 
There are a lot of times where a ref signals advantage, and if possession is lost, he blows the whistle and awards a yellow. However... If possession is kept and play goes on for a bit, he never gives out a card when play stops, hasn't happened once for me.
 
You know what though, just reading this thread alone it is impossible for Konami to satisfy everyone, it's a no win situation.

I think they should just accept feedback on things relating to the game, ie animations, online etc and bin off these ridiculous ideas of 5 different settings for passing, 5 game speeds.

They should just be able to make the games they want to make, as they did before these millions of forums came along demanding they make a game to suit every individual need.

The feedback I have provided has asked them for normal passing, like it was when you loved it and manual as well as ramping up animations.
 
its a difference with the new patch. Before it wasnt even playable for me, but even with the new patch i still prefer pes 2011 cause its more open play. On 2012 the back four in the cpu team always fall back to the penalty area too fast, so the games plays the same every game. You keep passing around the penalty area to find some small space to put the ball in or put it out on the side to make cross in. OK if there is 10 mins left and the cpu are ahead with 1-2 goals and they fall back but this happens from beginning of the game to the end, and it sucks, really ruin the game.
 
I seem to be one of the few who still likes the game speed option it seems. Lots of people for example seem to enjoy speed '0' for example, which is way too fast for my liking. If the game was set to speed zero with no option to change it, I wouldn't bother playing it because it's like some footballing version of the Benny Hill show on zero or higher.

That said I'm a total convert now. I might just back up the patch data onto another HDD and keep it there just in case the next patch screws the game up again. At least then I'd be able to roll it back to 1.02, otherwise once people download 1.03 (whenever it comes out) then 1.02 will be lost. There'll be no rolling it back, we'll have the option of deleting the patch and playing back on 1.00, or re-downloading 1.03 when it's available.

I had still been playing PES2011 up until this week as an alternative, but to be honest I played it today, then turned it off and put PES2012 straight on, and the difference in gameplay is huge. On this patch at any rate, there's no way I can go back to 2011 now, this version of 2012 flows so well, and so many tiny adjustments have been made. It's a bit easier now, and that helps anyone with their frustrations at the game I suppose, but it's more balanced. Tackling is far more successful, you can use the new jockey system and it actually holds up the CPU and forces them to play in a more considered manner rather than out and out counter attack etc. There's more space in the penalty area when attacking, it's so much better IMO of course.

I did actually notice that the way the AI plays is really no different to PES2011. Sure, some of the passing moves are a bit better, but the basic way they set their stall out is identical. 2011 still had the same number of players back, and bombed attackers forward once they got the ball like a huge charge up the pitch. I guess that's just an issue with the PES engine now being old and limited, hopefully big changes will come around with the next gen games. Hopefully. But for now, well, I for one enjoyed 2011's ML immensely by just learning to ignore this side of the AI and accept the game's limitations, and treat it as a fun football game. I think I'll do the same with 2012 then, because until the tech is updated then it's never going to be any different.

Oh, and as for shooting, I don't think it's broken, but aiming has been tweaked. Whereas in past games, aiming say diagonally down would place it in the left hand corner (running right to left), you now need to do this in much more of a pronounced way. I scored a goal from outside the box earlier, from a central position, and pretty much just pushed down for a short period of time. Maybe also pushing in the direction of the goal now somehow centres the shot a bit more. Just an idea.
 
DarthKebab said:
You know what though, just reading this thread alone it is impossible for Konami to satisfy everyone, it's a no win situation.

I think they should just accept feedback on things relating to the game, ie animations, online etc and bin off these ridiculous ideas of 5 different settings for passing, 5 game speeds.

They should just be able to make the games they want to make, as they did before these millions of forums came along demanding they make a game to suit every individual need.

The feedback I have provided has asked them for normal passing, like it was when you loved it and manual as well as ramping up animations.
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Couldn't agree more Craigy. Feedback can go too far and the game's vision and direction can become blurred by trying to please everybody. I think we've seen this happen the last couple of years.
 
Jamezinho said:
Couldn't agree more Craigy. Feedback can go too far and the game's vision and direction can become blurred by trying to please everybody. I think we've seen this happen the last couple of years.
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Yeah im not a fan of this feedback carry on, Konami made amazing games without fan feedback and now with WENB and PESfan constantly talking to them the past few years the games are no where near as good as the PS2 games, and because of this intereaction with Konami both sites are forced to give out 9 reviews.

Let Seabass and co do there job properly, Do you really need your names in the PES manual? :BYE:
 
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I think this depends on whether you're playing online or not. As we've seen, having significant gameplay adjustments can screw with online, but I don't see the problem with having pass assist and game speed for offline. I don't think it messes with the fundamentals in any real way, just makes things a little easier/difficult and changes the speed to suit tastes. Underneath, the gameplay is still the same. That said, this isn't the case with the online situation of course. But regarding offline, I don't think it matters too much. PES2011 and 2012 are infinitely better titles than PES2008 - 2010, and none of those poorer games had speed options etc.

In an ideal world, which of course could never really happen due to time and resources, it would be best if football games could release an offline and online version separately. They deal with completely different issues, which is why, I think, games struggle to have both online and offline that are playable at the same time.
 
So the verdict for 1.02 is better keepers but still overally negative camping CPU?

If that's the case I'll stick with 1.00
 
DarthKebab said:
You know what though, just reading this thread alone it is impossible for Konami to satisfy everyone, it's a no win situation.I think they should just accept feedback on things relating to the game, ie animations, online etc and bin off these ridiculous ideas of 5 different settings for passing, 5 game speeds.

They should just be able to make the games they want to make, as they did before these millions of forums came along demanding they make a game to suit every individual need.

The feedback I have provided has asked them for normal passing, like it was when you loved it and manual as well as ramping up animations.
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Bang on.

On PESFan the editor is asking everyone to fill out a questionaire (only 6 questions) about the game after the patch.
Just looking at the answers confirms what you said hightlighed in bold. For every person that says keepers are fixed another says they are not.
For some the games slower - for some its too fast.
Loads say the ball is heavier - a few say the ball is lighter.

How on earth are Konami meant to produce a game when everyone has different views.
Id really like Konami to come and say - we didnt touch anything. Just want to see if a placebo effect happens!! That would be execellent.

I do feel that since forums started people now just moan for moanings sake. Did people moan as much and see things before? Maybe they did. But I doubt it.
 
Well if you guys are happy with goalkeepers constantly making mistakes in PES who im i to say otherwise, I'd much prefer it if tame shots right at the keeper didnt go in but it looks like im in the minority here on this occasion.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Well if you guys are happy with goalkeepers constantly making mistakes in PES who im i to say otherwise, I'd much prefer it if tame shots right at the keeper didnt go in but it looks like im in the minority here on this occasion.
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I think something like 1 in 100 shots to error in that way is fine, if it's nearer 1 in 10 then I'd have a problem.

My main concern with the new version is how many own goals the CPU has scored already.

6 games, 5 own goals. One match had TWO in the one match.

In those 6 games I saw one goal-keeper error just like the one you posted.

Doesn't bode well. Despite the fact that keepers, besides this, are MUCH better.

Kinda makes it even harder to take when they're general level is so good.
 
mjp said:
I think something like 1 in 100 shots to error in that way is fine, if it's nearer 1 in 10 then I'd have a problem.

My main concern with the new version is how many own goals the CPU has scored already.

6 games, 5 own goals. One match had TWO in the one match.

In those 6 games I saw one goal-keeper error just like the one you posted.

Doesn't bode well. Despite the fact that keepers, besides this, are MUCH better.

Kinda makes it even harder to take when they're general level is so good.
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I actually thought the own goal rate has gone down with the patch i played 4 games last night and only seen 2 own goals, but yeah i have never seen a football game like this with so many own goals.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Better keepers? Dont let Konami kid you on. I scored this last night.

YouTube - PES 2012 Improved Goal Keepers
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I know it's a GK error of sorts but the ball was whacked straight at the guy from fairly close range. I've seen plenty of real life goals where the pace of the ball beats the keeper. Not sure that's a full on error like some of the clangers I've seen.

I really genuinely haven't seen any keeper errors since the patch. Generally their handling has been fine. I think anyone who sees any kind of a weak goal is now claiming it's down to poor GK AI.

As for the own goal thing, I've played probably 20+ matches now post-patch and haven't even seen one own goal. That's really bizarre.
 
Just had a (very) quick go on PES.

I really like FIFA (this year) and a long term PES fan (even the crap ones). FIFA looks better, flows better, has all the bells and whistles, so why is it that PES has me purring over some of the build up play within minutes?

Just chucked on a random friendly (turned out Swansea v Spurs) and some of my long balls to Danny Graham, hold up play and lay offs to Dyer, Sinclair and Gower were really nice - the likes of which I just havent seen in weeks of FIFA. Really weird.

I'm hoping there is room for both games in my library, but not sure thats financially viable. Tough choice, but will play more PES later and see if that good feeling continues.
 
LTFC said:
I know it's a GK error of sorts but the ball was whacked straight at the guy from fairly close range. I've seen plenty of real life goals where the pace of the ball beats the keeper. Not sure that's a full on error like some of the clangers I've seen.

I really genuinely haven't seen any keeper errors since the patch. Generally their handling has been fine. I think anyone who sees any kind of a weak goal is now claiming it's down to poor GK AI.

As for the own goal thing, I've played probably 20+ matches now post-patch and haven't even seen one own goal. That's really bizarre.
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CPU scored against me yesterday by playing a chipped through ball from just outside the "D" played in a striaght line parallel to my right hand post, to Pavlechenko - he misses it, my keeper slides out, on his side, and the ball bounces over him and trickles into the net.

Not the best description to use to explain the worst gaff I've seen on any game I've played for years but it was there.

But like I say, overall, they are much better - attacking corners to catch the ball, better positioning at free-kicks etc but that one really wound me up.

Not trying to be argumentative, just adding my thoughts to the overall impressions.

(Interesting what you say about Own Goals, I'm playing on Zero speed, Top Player, Football Life, with Chimps edit, if that makes a difference).

PS - I agree on your points about Flaw3d Genius'goal.
 
Fair enough, I'm obviously only going on what I see when I play the game, I'm sure I'll see something odd happen to my keeper at some point
 
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