PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Hmm, interesting stuff. I'm going to add points as I find out to get a kind of overall feel.

1) Have to play on Top Player until I unlock Superstar
2) Played three games, won one 3-2, lost the first 5-1 and lost v Man U 3-0, it certainly has changed
3) Previously my defensive play was exceptional, I'm leaking goals now
4) POSSESSION - this is huge for me, the CPU are having much, much more possession and seem happier to hold onto the ball for longer periods around my eighteen yard box
5) Feel a bit cheated at the moment as goals are reigning in against me, but the CPU feels more potent and more like a competitive footy team for once
6) CPU winning vast majority of headers, although I put this down to cheat mode Top Player
7) Will continue to delve...
 
Does anyone else have problems with the game being jumpy and laggy when offline? Seems to stutter a bit, often when the keeper is making a save or a cross is headed clear.

I play the game on +1 speed on PS3.

Anyone got any ideas or advice as to how I can fix this?

Cheers
 
Losing 3-1 to Man City after 60 minutes when I've just turned it off after another Suarez shot was blocked, sorry peeps don't know if the shooting is fixed or not simply because I really have the chance to actually let off a shot, the CPU defence in Top Player is insanely good, to the point of being ridiculous, the only way or breaking them at the moment is the cross ball.

This on PC by the way, but the CPU are just winning header after header and also hitting me with some rather dubious long through balls. I'm going to ditch Top Player, it's a bit of a joke. Previously I had gone like ten games and conceded perhaps 10/11 goals. In four games I have shipped in over ten already, with a 5-1 drubbing by Fulham-lona, and Man U dishing out another 3-1.

Umm, at the moment the jury is out until I play it on Superstar but all I have seen that has changed is

1) More pressure from the CPU
2) More possession from the CPU
3) More attacking intent from the CPU
4) Wonderful defensive AI from the CPU
5) Majority of headers won by CPU
6) Can't comment on the shooting, pretty much like it was to be honest.
7) My goaly has saved Jack Shit
 
Northzzz said:
Actually regarding the problem with not being able to shots that people seem to be having, is it a case of not being able to direct 'control shots' too? I'm not going to have any sympathy for people looking to score powerful shots (via only pressing B) and them not going in the corner you want in any given situation. Where as in contrast control shots should be way more accurate but less powerful.
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What's with pressing 'B' to shoot? Do you change the default controls to... I almost can't say it... FIFA controls?!

And I have to say, bad shooting in PES2012 is a problem that comes and goes. Some days it's nowhere to be seen, other days, it's every shot being misdirected. I doubt we'll see a 1.03 gameplay patch, so it seems to be a mystery that will now never be solved. Konami aren't going to fix it. Many dispute that the problem even exists. It definitely does exist, though.
 
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Just had a couple games after the new patch. Too early to have any definitive impressions, so just going to post random thoughts:

- Of course GKs are what everyone wants to know about. They seem stronger but not enough games yet to know for sure. Have seen a couple of really good diving saves that wouldve been goals in 1.00...one with Buffon stopping a hard shot from outside the box that was heading just inside the post...and Neuer making a superb quick diving save from a low shot close range.

- Shooting: seems like you can actually pick corners of the net. Had a beauty long ranger go right in the top corner from Ribery. Similar to 1.00 but more accurate. Have not had any shots going in 'opposite' direction but, again, too early..

- Crossing: crosses/long balls have more zip...the ball doesnt float like it did before. Even goalie throws move faster threw the air. Cant make a judgement if crosses are more/less accurate. But one thing that they have done to curb the number of cross-header goals is that headers are less accurate. Headers now are more likely to be knocked over the bar and this applies to both your headers and the PCs. Really like this as just as IRL, headers are really hard to keep under the bar. Still find knock on headers too good, they seem too cushioned and accurate.

AI: Movement is similar to 1.00. The PC seem to pass the ball a little more.

Responsiveness: Players are slightly more responsive than 1.0 and I feel that you gain control of a player quicker after a switch. Seems like theres less delay or rails or momentum after taking control of a player.

Dribbling: Like 1.00. Still feel that speed merchant's are way too powerful.


All in all, looks like its an decent improvement over 1.01 and a slight one over 1.0.
 
Just looks like pre-patch to me. It isn't exactly the same - certainly, the game speed is slower than pre-patch - but I can't see too many differences.

Nice to see the back of AI bus-parking, and I welcome the more intelligent runs the players are making - mine and the computer's. But most of the bad stuff from pre-patch is back too. CPU players all dribble like Messi again, and please welcome back the "wandering centre-backs" issue, both your CBs going walkabout when the ball's in midfield, leaving colossal gaps at the back. Needless to say, the AI's defence does not do this. In fact, the AI's defence is now Maldini-Baresi-Costacurta-Tassotti... even if they're actually the back four of CD Nacional.

The one thing that bugged me pre-patch which doesn't seem to have returned is the end-to-end nature of games. Much more going on in the midfield now, which can only be a good thing.

Not sure how I feel about this yet, though. All I can say for sure is that the game (vs AI) has just become much, much harder. How much of this is down to more intelligent computer play, and how much is down to cheating, it's too early to say. Certainly none of the AI cheats have been removed. I saw the lot: "magnetic" deflections, catch-up, psychic AI players, absurd stat-boosting, etc etc. They seemed even more pronounced than they did last week, but that might just have been because the AI was giving me a bit of a rogering for the first time in ages, and you always notice that stuff more when you're losing.

As for goalies, well my goalie managed to fumble a weak shot straight into the net, so I can't say I've noticed any great changes there yet.
 
Pere Ubu said:
... and please welcome back the "wandering centre-backs" issue, both your CBs going walkabout when the ball's in midfield
Click to expand...

It may has something to do with selecting a CB going forward on corners. It do it with Van Buyten and he start "wandering". If i don't chose him going forward on corners he stay behind. You may try this, perhaps this is what cause the problem.

I played some games with the new patch and i like it. Speed is slower (great!), more AI movement, shooting seems a little bit better (more power), goalies are good (i'm satisfied with them now and never thought they would be on this level after playing the first demo.) Good patch, great game.
 
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Would agree so far with what Master Kush says. Only played three games with the new patch 1.02 but it feels like a far better game so far. Here are the positives, I can't find any negatives so far about the patch to be honest;

- Game speed feels different, I usually play on -2 but -1 feels absolutely spot on. The ball somehow feels slightly 'heavier' and less like it's skimming across the pitch in an unrealistic manner, but might be a placebo effect. The pace of the game is definitely different.

- Movement is definitely similar to 1.00, or demo 2. Full backs properly join attacks without being told to, players seem to find space better. Much nicer so far.

- The stumble animation is still there but it's massively toned down than in 1.01. Some occasions I stumbled and lost the ball, but on many occasions I stumbled and kept it, or managed to stick out a foot and play the ball off to someone else. You gain control of the player much faster than the previous patch.

- Keepers; hard to tell really, didn't see any gaffes or even notice them really which I suppose is a good thing. They seemed consistent enough and made some solid saves. Nothing spectacular but initial impressions would suggest an improvement.

- AI defending; the big one for me, well, the teams were a mix really. Of the three games, the first two, the AI didn't sit back at all, the third, they sat back a LOT, I'm talking all eleven players halfway in their own half, but you could still play through them. Going forwards with the ball, then back again seems to draw them out a little better, but it's better due to the easier nature of the pressing. However, I was actually able, for the first time since owning the game, to get round and behind AI defences with nippy wingers. Defences are cramped, but they're not as superhuman in their tackling.

- Pressing; it's still just as evident, but it's still toned down in terms of the tackling. It felt easier to skip challenges, the drop of the shoulder move worked on the wings many times, as did the speed burst with key players like Lennon on the wing. Was much better.

- And the biggest thing I've noticed so far, is tackling. I seem to be massively more efficient at taking the ball off opponents now, they slalomed over challenges like they're not there just a couple of times in three whole matches. Before I'd position my player to block the ball, only to see the AI skip past you no matter what you do. Now, it feels, so far, that decent positioning and jockeying actually takes the ball if done right, just like in demo 2. Really happy with the tackling so far.

- Finally, games do somehow feel less end to end, which is great.

It's only a few matches so I'm not suddenly proclaiming it's amazing, but it has immediately felt far more balanced, it's almost as if the whole tackling problem was a bug and they've ironed it out. It wouldn't surprise me. But so far so good, it's been back to being an enjoyable game again. That said, I've yet to try a FL game, which even on Professional level was the king of cheating AI. We'll see. The game is still pretty dated IMO, but at least this makes it far more balanced and evenly paced.
 
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LTFC said:
Would agree so far with what Master Kush says. Only played three games with the new patch 1.02 but it feels like a far better game so far. Here are the positives, I can't find any negatives so far about the patch to be honest;

- Game speed feels different, I usually play on -2 but -1 feels absolutely spot on. The ball somehow feels slightly 'heavier' and less like it's skimming across the pitch in an unrealistic manner, but might be a placebo effect. The pace of the game is definitely different.

- Movement is definitely similar to 1.00, or demo 2. Full backs properly join attacks without being told to, players seem to find space better. Much nicer so far.

- The stumble animation is still there but it's massively toned down than in 1.01. Some occasions I stumbled and lost the ball, but on many occasions I stumbled and kept it, or managed to stick out a foot and play the ball off to someone else. You gain control of the player much faster than the previous patch.

- Keepers; hard to tell really, didn't see any gaffes or even notice them really which I suppose is a good thing. They seemed consistent enough and made some solid saves. Nothing spectacular but initial impressions would suggest an improvement.

- AI defending; the big one for me, well, the teams were a mix really. Of the three games, the first two, the AI didn't sit back at all, the third, they sat back a LOT, I'm talking all eleven players halfway in their own half, but you could still play through them. Going forwards with the ball, then back again seems to draw them out a little better, but it's better due to the easier nature of the pressing. However, I was actually able, for the first time since owning the game, to get round and behind AI defences with nippy wingers. Defences are cramped, but they're not as superhuman in their tackling.

- Pressing; it's still just as evident, but it's still toned down in terms of the tackling. It felt easier to skip challenges, the drop of the shoulder move worked on the wings many times, as did the speed burst with key players like Lennon on the wing. Was much better.

- And the biggest thing I've noticed so far, is tackling. I seem to be massively more efficient at taking the ball off opponents now, they slalomed over challenges like they're not there just a couple of times in three whole matches. Before I'd position my player to block the ball, only to see the AI skip past you no matter what you do. Now, it feels, so far, that decent positioning and jockeying actually takes the ball if done right, just like in demo 2. Really happy with the tackling so far.

- Finally, games do somehow feel less end to end, which is great.

It's only a few matches so I'm not suddenly proclaiming it's amazing, but it has immediately felt far more balanced, it's almost as if the whole tackling problem was a bug and they've ironed it out. It wouldn't surprise me. But so far so good, it's been back to being an enjoyable game again. That said, I've yet to try a FL game, which even on Professional level was the king of cheating AI. We'll see. The game is still pretty dated IMO, but at least this makes it far more balanced and evenly paced.
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totally agree with all that,this is the pes i want to play,loving the shooting will post up 2 goals ive scored with honda showing that shots to the corners are there. 1st time since i got the game that ive actually wanted to keep playing it for more than an hour
 
i just want to thank konami for the new patch ,before patch it was a great game offline,that is on -2 gamespeed,the gamespeed -2 was for me already the only acceptable speed before patch ,now the game plays perfect for me,before patch online pes2012 was unplayable for me,frantic ,very fast and frustrating, today i tried it again and must say it is now on same level as offline ,maybe like-1 offline in gamespeed ,what a difference with before,played competition but every oponent played with real madrid (i took atletico)that and the to short 5minute games anoyed me,started master league online and must say the best online football game ever,10 minuted games make a more realistic game,i see masterleague online also has competitions,but with 5 minute games ,wish they made it 10 minute games,but cant complain to much ,online pes 2012 is alive now,just dont blow it aigain konami.
 
Yeah me too, absolutely loving it so far. The AI sit deep but allow you more time on the ball. I found myself in a Valencia v Mallorca game feeling like the game was somehow too easy because I was being so creative on the ball but then I realised that I'd not actually had a shot on target by that point. Didn't feel like it at all though.

I downloaded the patch expecting nothing at all, and boy am I wrong - so far. Every game though has felt great. There's a player for Valencia called Piatti, using him in my last game was a joy. He could ride challenges, stand still on the ball and then wait for a challenge by wrongfooting the defender with a 'step over and move' type of play, still just as hard to win but so much more creative. I love how the drop of the shoulder move from PES2011 is now more effective, on Broadcast cam Piatti had the ball on the near wing and was on the touchline camera. He dropped his shoulder, beat the man, then I did a speed burst between two players more in desperation than anything. He wriggled between them and ran along the goal line before seeing the cut back blocked. Really amazing to see that back in the game, and on broadcast cam it looked crazily realistic. Previous versions would have hammered the little guy into touch with the insane tackling.

I'm a little astonished and taken aback by the difference. The game's been up on Amazon for sale for a week, I've now taken it off and have the urge to play it again and again. The AI feels more tactical rather than defending through brute force, and like I said before the pace of the game feels so much more improved. I've also experienced no bizarre animation 'lock ups' that drove me mad before. How odd that a 2mb patch could change so much.

It's early days of course but it feels like a new game to me. Maybe I'm crazy, and it's all a placebo effect. But I doubt it.

Shooting is odd though. On a couple of occasions a shot has gone, say, well to the left of the goal when the stick was clearly pointing to the right of the goal, but mostly it's been fine, as these goals show from tonight. A few are long range, but my favourite is the bottom video showing my Valencia goal getting round the back of the defence, something I just could never manage pre-1.02 patch. The ball is flicked on, my attacker chests it down before slotting it home :)

YouTube - Patch 1.02

YouTube - B

The only frustrating thing is that in four games I've twice conceded equalising goals in the last three minutes of the games, no changes there, but generally it's much much better on this patch. I fully stand by my arguments that the game in lots of ways needs starting from scratch, technically it's still a long way behind other games, but at least now the old PES feeling 'seems' to be back. And I say that cautiously, as I tend to swing from one extreme to the other with this!
 
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So.
I'm a 360 user and enjoyed demo 2 (didn't get demo 1 due to error!) does the new patch make it feel like that maybe better? If so then I'll take another look at it. I'd have no problem trading FIFA for it. (again!)
Just played demo 2 again and won 2-0 with Brazilian team and really enjoyed it. (shooting is tricky still for me)
Was just so disappointed with full (half finished) release.
Thanks.
 
One thing is for sure - I won't be pre-ordering games or buying on day one too much in future. It's definitely best to give new games a miss until they are patched. I'm getting fed up of paying £40 to be a bug tester, which seems to be the case with most games these days, this year's PES being a prime example.

If us as gamers stopped rushing out to buy these games day one then the developers/publishers might get the hint that we've had enough of shoddy, rushed products.

/rant.
 
I really can't say if it's improved enough to be worth re-buying, there are plenty of rage inducing moments for sure. Of the last five games tonight I've drawn three 1-1, with the CPU scoring an equaliser in the 85th, 88 and 90th minute. Get to 85 minutes or so and the AI can go apeshit trying to get a goal. The last game, on 82 minutes I get a penalty to make it 2-0, the keeper pulls off an outrageous penalty save to claw a bullet penalty out of the top corner, then 30 seconds later a loose ball falls in my penalty area, I go to clear it, the AI removes the cursor from my defender for no reason, then switches it back to him a second later but that's enough to let in a striker who clips the ball past the onrushing keeper (cue game rage).

It plays 100% better than the other versions I've played, but seems like the scripting and rage inducing moments are still there, which they always would be. It's just a patch at the end of the day.

Nevertheless, it's a massive positive step towards fixing the game as it stood before today. Like Jamezinho says about being a bug tester, I genuinely think this is the finished version that Konami simply didn't have ready until now. Many little issues seem resolved in this patch. I think they rushed it out unfinished due to the fact that EA already had such a head start on them to begin with. And I actually believe tackling was bugged pre-1.02, now it's massively better. Players very rarely skip past multiple challenges so far, and tackling or holding players up seems to be 100% better on this version.
 
I don't notice any difference between this and the demo to be honest, I tried both earlier out of interest. Maybe others will state their opinion on that and disagree....
 
I tried 3 games. 1 on regular I won far too easy, then on pro, tougher games.

I really enjoyed it. I will not return now.

But I still have issues in that I need a patch for full licensed teams and extra stadiums that does not crash master league
 
Typical. The new patch introduces some of the positive features from the demos into the final game and I go and trade in PES (for the first time in my life) a few days back.
 
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YouTube - drogba

heres a new animation added when you give players the shooting card in edit mode,classy finish by the big man

YouTube - honda 1

heres hondas first,loving the power you can generate now with players with good technique,he put it right in the corner no keeper would save it

YouTube - honda2

loving this one as it would not have been possible in v1.01,the stumble animation would have killed the momentum of honda,again with his high shot technique and shot power he sticks it right in the corner

loving this pes 2012 now ,every team is different and player individuality is really shining through again like in the demo and v1.00
 
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Jamezinho said:
Which is a good thing if you enjoyed the demos?
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Yeah for sure. I loved the demos but before tonight couldn't muster more than two straight games on the final version before putting it down and doing something else, as you probably did. Tonight, I've played it all evening. Played a game just now between Marseille and River Plate, it was very end to end but chances were oddly at a premium. I then purposefully slowed the game down and the AI now actually lets you do it. The first half, doing that was harder as the CPU did close down very quickly, but second half was great. I got the ball down, knocked it around, slowed the tempo right down and chances started to appear for me. Won the game 2-0, a header from within the six yard box and another goal from just outside the box.

Most of my chances are now coming from wide areas which wasn't the case before, so the AI doesn't appear to pack out the middle of their penalty area quite so much. Creating chances seems easier, as does the game on Professional in general. Before the patch I couldn't buy a win even on Pro, and barely score a goal, but now for some reason I've only lost one game all evening, drawn a lot, won a few, so it's more balanced for me at least.

Absolute biggest thing that I've noticed, like I said, is that tackling is now back to demo 2. I defended pretty well in that, all the mechanics that Konami told us about actually seem to have an effect now. I could barely win a tackle on the final version before whereas now I'm getting a foot in a lot, blocking more shots/crosses etc.

IMO it's back to the quality of demo 2, with a few things polished up. I think the game came out too early and this is the final version for sure. There's scope to make the game play end to end, or to try and play slow and dominate possession.
 
goalgerd said:
YouTube - drogbaLoving this pes 2012 now ,every team is different and player individuality is really shining through again like in the demo and v1.00
Click to expand...

I thought it was a placebo effect but you're noticing it too? My game against River Plate was an open, footballing affair whereas a friendly between Spurs and Wigan saw Wigan thumping long balls a lot. Same when I played Switzerland. I presume they make these teams do this because they're lower rated teams, which is certainly better than nothing. I'd rather they made teams like Wigan play long ball in the game than passing it around like Brazil, for sure.
 
LTFC said:
Absolute biggest thing that I've noticed, like I said, is that tackling is now back to demo 2. I defended pretty well in that, all the mechanics that Konami told us about actually seem to have an effect now. I could barely win a tackle on the final version before whereas now I'm getting a foot in a lot, blocking more shots/crosses etc.

IMO it's back to the quality of demo 2, with a few things polished up. I think the game came out too early and this is the final version for sure. There's scope to make the game play end to end, or to try and play slow and dominate possession.
Click to expand...

I said at the time of release that i thought Demo 2 was more advanced than retail code due to the final game having to go gold before Demo 2 came out and still believe that, now they have had more time to work on it it seems to be getting where demo 2 was or even passing it.
 
I think it's a combination of them ironing out bugs from the transition the game made from demo to full release, stuff such as the tackling and animation lock ups that completely drove me up the wall. Haven't seen that happen all night. Of course, best news of all for anyone experiencing the run bug on 360 is that it's apparently been fixed with this update too. So yeah, it does feel like the game has finally reached a more 'retail' level with this patch.

I'm not sure we'll see any more gameplay patches from now on, I think Konami released one this time last year and then that was it. I kind of hope they don't do anything more because this was the most fun I've had out of a football game for a good long while.

I think a part of it was misjudgement from Konami, they obviously decided to tinker with the core AI gameplay and must have seen the backlash over it, because they've largely rolled it back to demo 2 in my opinion. Which is great.

Oddly though I had a little look on other PES forums and some people are going berserk over it, saying it's now made the game awful. I really don't understand that, it's x10 more playable. Players feel more individual, game speed is more balanced (-1 is perfect, even -2 is still great) etc.

The issue with keepers will always be an contentious one. i think they've been vastly improved in this patch. They handle the ball better, sure they still palm shots away but it's somehow more 'solid' than before. Haven't seen a major goof up yet, and on two occasions my keeper pulled off a brilliant save. Similarly, he let in a goal that he should probably have saved, but the same could be said about 99% of all goals. It wasn't a glaring error by any means, but I get the feeling that some people out there will brand keepers as appalling every time they don't make a save they should have done better with. Provided they are solid and don't do any weird stuff like in the videos I posted last week, it should be all good.
 
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