PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

pes4lyfe said:
I dotn knwo about custom tactis and stuff I barley experimented with it.

What I meant is formations and players. If I have fast wingers and play 4-3-3 i can feel the effect of fast wigngers and tall strogn middle striker. If I play 442 with smae players its not as effective.
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Good luck playing with Tottenham or Juventus :LOL:

Thats not good though. Thats what i ment about the 'golden tactic'. Some strategies work, some don't work regardless of how much in real life players are suited to the position.

4-2-3-1 is used by most teams on the game but it's totally shit in terms of effectiveness because of the crap off the ball movement. I noticed 4-3-3 and 3-4-3 are simply better with anyone, whatever players you have when playing against mates.

Tottenham under redknapp has utilised 4-4-2 to good effect Bale and Lennon on either side to run at players and create chances for the big man Crouch or Pavlychenko who normally artnered Defoe or Keane (now Adewhore and Giovani).

But in fifa things to matter.

Neymar can dribble like easily

Drogba can power past defenders

Kompany is a beast to try to get past

Fast players feel fast and clinical finishers always score.
And this is also apparent with the cpu. As I Said PAto scored 3 goals against me. He only had 4 chacnes. So clinical. When the cpu gets in on goal with Villa or Tevez or Aguero or BEzema they score 9/10 times. They get through on goal with average joe they can still miss.

CPU has C.ronaldo or MEssi or Ozil or robinho they skin you with skill moves etc....its quite good.
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Hmmm, what you will see at first it seems there is a moderatre level of individuatlity but the horrible 'FIFA AI' feeling will set it later, this where the AI will always score from certian positions and it becomes very predictable. This is why i do find TD very easy because i know where the AI can score from and where they can't.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
I dont think we have ever had a proper football sim, imo Fifa 08 was most likely the biggest sim attempt we have seen.

PES has always been the perfect balance of arcade and sim (the good PES games that is, forget about PES 2008-2011) and this year is no different.
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I still love FIFA 08, still the best FIFA game ever release and it wasan't even half finished :RANT:
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
I dont think we have ever had a proper football sim, imo Fifa 08 was most likely the biggest sim attempt we have seen.

PES has always been the perfect balance of arcade and sim (the good PES games that is, forget about PES 2008-2011) and this year is no different.
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correct PEs had the balance spot on. Never played FIFA 08. Did I miss out?

2012 PEs is no different? in a good way?
 
klashman69 said:
Good luck playing with Tottenham or Juventus :LOL:

Thats not good though. Thats what i ment about the 'golden tactic'. Some strategies work, some don't work regardless of how much in real life players are suited to the position.

4-2-3-1 is used by most teams on the game but it's totally shit in terms of effectiveness because of the crap off the ball movement. I noticed 4-3-3 and 3-4-3 are simply better with anyone, whatever players you have when playing against mates.

Tottenham under redknapp has utilised 4-4-2 to good effect Bale and Lennon on either side to run at players and create chances for the big man Crouch or Pavlychenko who normally artnered Defoe or Keane (now Adewhore and Giovani).



Hmmm, what you will see at first it seems there is a moderatre level of individuatlity but the horrible 'FIFA AI' feeling will set it later, this where the AI will always score from certian positions and it becomes very predictable. This is why i do find TD very easy because i know where the AI can score from and where they can't.
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Well Ill be honest with you I always on only ever used 1 formation pes1-pes6 as for me it was the golden formation

3-5-2

but like


.........gk............

....df....df....df.....

........dm..........

sm..................sm..

.....am......am........

.....cf.....cf.........



all the tiem i only use this!!


I have only played 1 season in career mode so possibly I have not had enough time to evalaute the cpu AI yet. though I am happy with the playabilty i can produce with my own teams if you know what I mean.

For me old PES always had great CPU AI.
 
LTFC - glad to see you came around on the 1.01 issue :P

I did a -3 adjustment to Green on the settings and it looks as good as PES 2011 now. Might try -2 to give a tiny bit extra to day games but it looks good on my TV as I use a cinema setting which I've calibrated nicely. So the -3 for me won't be equal for everyone but definitely it's only the Greens that look oversaturated. Wouldn't necessarily touch the brightness or sharpness too much though.

Klashman - I'm playing on Superstar now on 1.01 and it feels good.
 
LTFC said:
Sorry to keep banging on about the patch thing, but I played a number of games version 1.0 tonight, felt 'okay', but too open, too many counter attacks.

I then switched it back to version 1.01 and it felt miles better. Having initially thought the game was miles better pre-patch, I'm now back the other way. I think it's just practice and learning the game. Like I said before, using liberal use of direction control really opens up the game, allows you to keep possession and shield far better.

Something was changed for the better post-patch IMO. The game plays at a more balanced, slower pace, I might be imagining it but the ball physics feel more solid, and the AI, while sitting back very deep, still allow for the game to take place in midfield a whole lot more than pre-patch, which as I said, was a constant counter attacking fest with players all over the park.

It all comes down to preference. I don't like that, others do. However, the increased difficulty with dribbling etc is far better. It gives players like Ozil (when I played Germany v Denmark tonight) a whole new importance. I generally ended up using my players to keep the ball moving, but when I got it to Ozil he had the capacity to open up the Denmark defence with speed bursts, regularly side stepping players etc. This has great implications for Football Life etc, as signing players with such technical ability will make you want to build a team around them.

I also feel like the slower pace of the game makes players feel more individual in terms of their first touch etc.

Just my thoughts, but after spending a week with version 1.00 then going back to 1.01 I can immediately see where Konami have changed it for the better. The keepers are MILES better, and though many people's criticism of the patch is in places justified, mine included, I think that learning to use the inertia and subtle movements of players especially on -2 speed has meant that the AI doesn't seem so brutal after all.

Couple this with the visual improvement using my 3D TV and I'm one happy camper after all :)

Little tip for anyone wanting to improve the look of their game, as others have already said;

- increase the sharpness setting on your TV
- increase the brightness setting in-game
- decrease the green colour setting in-game by -1

Makes it look a whole lot better.

So, to FL. Gonna go Professional, then maybe after a while try Superstar for a laugh, I've heard it's more balanced than Top Player so I might skip that entirely when I need to increase the difficulty.
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I can see where you're coming from mate, I agree with both points with regards to the open-endedness of 1.00 and the benefits of dribbling being restricted to more skilled players in 1.01

I think if online wasn't a cock-infested assisted shambles, then 1.01 would be my preferential version.

Against the CPU offline however it's just no fun to play for me. I haven't used any sides with top players so maybe thats the difference, but having to break down 10 men behind the ball continuously just felt like a grind. While 1.00 is more open, it's infinitely more fun to play, almost an arcade game with enough sim elements to keep it interesting.

Neither can be claimed to be more realistic than the other IMO tho, as I've said before the last straw with 1.01 for me, was being bottom of D2 and absolutely besieging top of D1 in a cup game, until they finally broke free and scored well in to E.T. At least in 1.00 the CPU will occasionally have more possession than me, and not continually play out the game in the manner of Canvey Island vs Manchester United
 
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Danny - if you're on Xbox add me as I'm always looking for a good friendly opponent who's up for a proper game of football online. Myself and Robo have had some crackers :)
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
I had this the other night, didnt go through the body but right through the palm of the hand, i thought it was an amazing goal at first then watched the replay which took away the shine of the goal :(




Football Kingdom wouldnt be fresh and tbh it's was shit! The only thing it had going for it was net physics.
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It was fresh at the time, we need something fresh right now aswell. FIFA feels good to play but I dont like the CPU AI. PES feels good to play aswell, but has countless gameplay problems and can be really irritating at times.

Konami has implemented manual player runs with R3 at the cost of nullifying any player movement on your team by the AI, and I dont really want to manually control my fullbacks into overlapping every god damn time my RMF has the ball.

Teammate AI is so ridiculous that I've just played a game where my player got to the byline and my CF ran OUTSIDE of the area. I wasnt controlling him, but you expect a striker to move to the near post or stand his ground when he's got a teammate ready to cross a ball from the byline.

PES is painfully fun, if you know what I mean. It keeps frustrating you, but you keep coming back for more, because it has it's moments. Doesnt take away from the fact that Konami has lost the plot since long.
 
leandropuc86 said:
FIFA feels good to play but I dont like the CPU AI.
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I think so its liek everythign you control in fifa is nice, the passes, shots, skills, runs, flixks etc..Then the presentations and animatiosn, stadiums etc..etc...The only problem is the Ai is a bit whack.

I say take the above from FIFA and put into the PEs5 game AI/engine and we have a great game.

Ok impossible but would make for a great game.

Though tbh with sliders FIFA 12 can be made vey playable if you are willing to spend time tinkering.

FIFA 12 default IMO against CPU is a very poor game.
 
I'm finding the difference in player and team individuality absolutely huge this year on Zero Pass Assistance. We had our usual weekly PES Lads Night, last night, and again, I really struggled to compete against my mates. That is the 3rd week in a row I've finished bottom of the league. That is unheard of. The first couple of weeks I played with Galatasaray, and my mates played with the real big guns, Barca, Inter, AC and Liverpool. Last week, the least experienced player won with Barca. He has never won a Lads Night League Title, and always plays with Barca. The positioning and organisation of the Barca players though was immense, and combine that with the forward options and they were a ridiculously tough team to break down.

Last night I choose Bolton, which are my new PEEL team. We kept it an all Premiership affair, and my mates and brother chose Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea. Again, team for team and player for player I was completely out-gunned all over the park. To me this really does highlight the team and player individuality massively on this Zero Assistance. For the record, I've always played with lesser teams against my mates, and won the League pretty much week-in, week-out for the most part. And they have always used Premium sides. This is totally different, and I'm massively struggling to the point where I'm having the hardest time I've ever had against these strong sides. I cant stress enough just how much harder this is now. Sure they can all play PES, but obviously not as much as me, and none of them actually even own PES or a console. It's very bittersweet for me this, on one hand I'm gutted I can no longer realistically compete, but on the other, the player and team individuality is at the very highest it's ever been.
 
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Is it just me, or does the CPU never take short goalkicks? This isn't a complaint by the way, just seeing if anyone else has seen the CPU take short goalkicks. It isn't a gamebreaker for me definitely lol.
 
Don't think I have seen a short CPU goalkick and I'm starting to not take short goalkicks myself. Just a little experiment to see if I can even out possession a bit more. I figure its too easy to take a short goalkick and build up a new phase of possession so I'm forcing myself to hoof it up the middle and compete for the ball. Think it's more realistic as most goalkicks in real football are played long.
 
I don't recall seeing a short goalkick either. Nor do I remember a short corner. But at least they try long throw-ins! :D However saying that, Stoke have never utilised Delap's "javelin special". They seem more bothered about putting Peter Crouch in central midfield.
 
Had another little experiment last night with both versions 1.00 and 1.01.

Top Player Barca v Villareal.

1.00 2-2
1.01 4-0

I thought post patch was supposed to be harder? Villareal's attacking was poor post patch and whenever i had the ball it was so much easier to keep it. Reckon i still enjoy pre patch more.....seems more organic. Post patch reminds me of the SPL whenever teams play Rangers or Celtic and just get 10 men behind the ball every game.
 
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shank118 said:
Is it just me, or does the CPU never take short goalkicks? This isn't a complaint by the way, just seeing if anyone else has seen the CPU take short goalkicks. It isn't a gamebreaker for me definitely lol.
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I've noticed they very rarely kick the ball out of their hands either, 90% of the time they throw it out.
 
LTFC said:
Sorry to keep banging on about the patch thing, but I played a number of games version 1.0 tonight, felt 'okay', but too open, too many counter attacks.

I then switched it back to version 1.01 and it felt miles better. Having initially thought the game was miles better pre-patch, I'm now back the other way. I think it's just practice and learning the game. Like I said before, using liberal use of direction control really opens up the game, allows you to keep possession and shield far better.

Something was changed for the better post-patch IMO. The game plays at a more balanced, slower pace, I might be imagining it but the ball physics feel more solid, and the AI, while sitting back very deep, still allow for the game to take place in midfield a whole lot more than pre-patch, which as I said, was a constant counter attacking fest with players all over the park.

It all comes down to preference. I don't like that, others do. However, the increased difficulty with dribbling etc is far better. It gives players like Ozil (when I played Germany v Denmark tonight) a whole new importance. I generally ended up using my players to keep the ball moving, but when I got it to Ozil he had the capacity to open up the Denmark defence with speed bursts, regularly side stepping players etc. This has great implications for Football Life etc, as signing players with such technical ability will make you want to build a team around them.

I also feel like the slower pace of the game makes players feel more individual in terms of their first touch etc.

Just my thoughts, but after spending a week with version 1.00 then going back to 1.01 I can immediately see where Konami have changed it for the better. The keepers are MILES better, and though many people's criticism of the patch is in places justified, mine included, I think that learning to use the inertia and subtle movements of players especially on -2 speed has meant that the AI doesn't seem so brutal after all.

Couple this with the visual improvement using my 3D TV and I'm one happy camper after all :)

Little tip for anyone wanting to improve the look of their game, as others have already said;

- increase the sharpness setting on your TV
- increase the brightness setting in-game
- decrease the green colour setting in-game by -1

Makes it look a whole lot better.

So, to FL. Gonna go Professional, then maybe after a while try Superstar for a laugh, I've heard it's more balanced than Top Player so I might skip that entirely when I need to increase the difficulty.
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Cheers for the tips on screen adjustments, my game looks about 50% better than it did. I'm still puzzled why the PS3 game out of the box looks so scruffy.

Re. The whole patch palaver, just how much stuff do you think was packed into that 15MB?! If you did a list of all the things you think the patch changed, how many of them would be really likely, and how much possible/probable placebo? Personally I'm only certain about the shooting and the AI defensive lines being changed, for the worse, from 1.00 to 1.01.
 
Keith Houchen said:
Cheers for the tips on screen adjustments, my game looks about 50% better than it did. I'm still puzzled why the PS3 game out of the box looks so scruffy.

Re. The whole patch palaver, just how much stuff do you think was packed into that 15MB?! If you did a list of all the things you think the patch changed, how many of them would be really likely, and how much possible/probable placebo? Personally I'm only certain about the shooting and the AI defensive lines being changed, for the worse, from 1.00 to 1.01.
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15mb? It was only 2 MB on the 360.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Had another little experiment last night with both versions 1.00 and 1.01.

Top Player Barca v Villareal.

1.00 2-2
1.01 4-0

I thought post patch was supposed to be harder? Villareal's attacking was poor post patch and whenever i had the ball it was so much easier to keep it. Reckon i still enjoy pre patch more.....seems more organic. Post patch reminds me of the SPL whenever teams play Rangers or Celtic and just get 10 men behind the ball every game.
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Unfortunately most teams in real life do get 10 men behind the ball. See an attacking team, especially at home, with the ball on the halfway line and you will see the defending team with everyone behind the ball. But I do agree they go too deep.

I listened to the WEBN podcast last night while I was going some work, they made some really interesting points. The patch issue is definitely a devisive one. Some prefer the open ended-ness of pre-patch, and it does play like a very good game, but others prefer the more serie A style play which is harder to break down.

I think I went off the pre-patched version purely because of how much easier it is to beat players regardless of your player. That, combined with the weakness of goalkeepers doesn't make it anywhere near as satisfying when I score a goal. On the other hand, keepers post-patch pulled off some amazing saves last night, and after a run of games I was only able to record a win thanks to playing in a steady manner, playing fairly low risk passes, until a space opened up then by getting the ball to Ozil in the Germany midfield. I don't get that feeling pre-patch, anyone can unlock the defence with a turn or dribble.

The AI didn't actually seem that deep to me either. One occasion, my keeper caught a cross, rolled it out, saw Ozil up level with the last line of defence, and tried a 60 yard lofted pass. Worked beautifully, except for my lousy finish :P

There's no right or wrong regarding the patch, but for me the game post-patch feels more evenly paced, more of a tense midfield battle that forces you to slow the game down. I much prefer this to the pre-patch games I've played where both teams had space to constantly get their head down and sprint with the ball from one end to the other, and back again.
 
Guess the patch discussion is still undecided. I had a little test myself last night, played the first 3 games of a CL group and then switched to pre-patch. Only played 2 games since but it certainly felt more fun. Also felt a bit easier, but in a good way. Professional w/patch just feels crazy hard for me, can hardly believe there are two additional difficulty levels. I have been playing top player exclusively for so long now, I'm getting pwnd bigtime.
 
more midfield battle post patch..what are you smoking, there is NO midfield post-patch because the midfield is camped inside the 18 yard box for most of the match
 
Gents, I think I have just entered the twilight zone. If you are unfamiliar with my ramblings my set up was PS3 attached to 50" plasma played on pre-patch. -1 gamespeed and on wide cam. On my PC on my monitor 22" LCD I was running post patch.

I have been betwixed and between both the console and PC, trying every setting, different patches different camera modes etc etc.

I then decided, why didn;t I think of this before, and brought my 37" LCD old Matsui tv down into my games/work room, and attached the PC to that. I think I have found the PERFECT balance with everything, andf I hate to say it and I'm going to have to swollow my pride, but it's in the form of POST PATCH.

So - post patch, 37" tv (which I think is perfect, the monitor was too small and players on wide cam looked too big, and wide cam on my 50" players looked too small). PC version, and running on gamespeed 0, which I found very odd. I had a few games and didn't check thinking it was on -1 or something, but it wasn't.

Get ready for revelation number 2.....I'm having some brilliant games not only on post patch, BUT ON TOP PLAYER TOO!!

This game is driving me nuts this year BUT I'm using PESEDIT 2.0 with the kits and stuff and everything seems to be running great with the PC attacked to a 37" LCD.

Going to give it more testing. And all that I've said about Post patch + Top Player too lol
 
adamjensen said:
more midfield battle post patch..what are you smoking, there is NO midfield post-patch because the midfield is camped inside the 18 yard box for most of the match
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Not from what I'm seeing, teams set out deep then come to meet you when you have the ball. Better than sprinting through an empty midfield because both sets of players are standing either in defence or right up front with a gaping hole in between...
 
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