PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[Jimmy G-Force]

I think that this was because the ai controlled defenders simply couldn't cope with it in the same way that 1-2's simply blew defenders away. Limiting the power of these two as well as the triple button cross from the bye-line is a really big step in getting people to play proper football rather than exploiting flaws in the game system.

Of course these things should work from time to time but they should be more reliant on the ability of the coach and the player rather than feeling as automatic as they were on 2011.

+1

 

[mjp]

I think that this was because the ai controlled defenders simply couldn't cope with it in the same way that 1-2's simply blew defenders away. Limiting the power of these two as well as the triple button cross from the bye-line is a really big step in getting people to play proper football rather than exploiting flaws in the game system.

Of course these things should work from time to time but they should be more reliant on the ability of the coach and the player rather than feeling as automatic as they were on 2011.

Great post and totally spot on.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

The 1,2's and through-balls were coded to be super-effective to compromise the fact pace had very little prominence. It was a counter-balance if you like.

 

[Robbery]

To be honest, the first game looked a bit nicer to me, the AI didn't just run at you and the play all round was good. What game speed setting did you use?

I don't think there were any radical differences I could spot from that video and I'm not about to do a frame by frame analysis to prove either side right. I do enjoy the game with the patch and I'm going to leave it.

I used gamespeed -1.

Right now i'm playing the patched game again. I feel it is a little bit more balanced and the differences between defense and attacking are not that huge like they are without the patch.

Without the patch it seems to me it is more like a "full attack" kind of game. I played ~10 matches without the patch and i think the offensive movement is a lot better without the patch. Also dribbling is more effective (it is already very effective in the patched version) and with the better movement you can score more goals and you can score easier.

But i like the patched gameplay more. You can still score nice goals, you can still create very nice movements, but you have to work more to get good opportunities. And you are able to defend dribblers a lot better and you have to, otherwise it sometimes really feel like "watch the show and enjoy the AI scoring".

 

[Professor Nutmeg]

What have people done with duplicate (fake) players in National squads?

I understand if you swap them out and lower their stats to zero, the computer won't pick them in Master League. However, every roster update means they end up back in national squads, which is really annoying.

 

[gerd]

I think that this was because the ai controlled defenders simply couldn't cope with it in the same way that 1-2's simply blew defenders away. Limiting the power of these two as well as the triple button cross from the bye-line is a really big step in getting people to play proper football rather than exploiting flaws in the game system.

Of course these things should work from time to time but they should be more reliant on the ability of the coach and the player rather than feeling as automatic as they were on 2011.

Could well be true, but that is only part of the difference. IMO the through balls are less simple to perform well...now they are often a litle bit too far for the player who has to reach the through ball...Of course that is up to me, but since i could execute them perfectly in PES2011, something has changed concerning the passing itself...

 

[klashman69]

Whats the best difficaulty with the patch? From what i've seen i think Proffesional is fucked on 1.01 but is by far the best level on 1.00

Noticed super star is better on 1.01 but they play like superman on 1.00

Is this a bug where Superstar and Proffesional have swapped over?

This is possbily thie issue since people who were loving proffesional on 1.00 are now effectivley playing on what should be superstar on 1.01

More madness from Konami!

 

[Robbery]

I can only speak for the patched version, because with this version i played way more games. So with weaker teams i used to play on professional and with very strong teams i used to play on Topplayer. It works for me. I didn't played on superstar right now.

This year is different because of the passing bar option. It strongly affected the difficulty of the game. This and the other options (Player assistance, gamespeed) changed the game experience from one player to the other. Maybe this is where the madness comes from.

For me professional isn't bad at all on 1.01. It is to easy with very strong teams (like bayern, barca e.g) but on spot with weaker teams. Quit a nice challenge to play against the big ones and very nice against teams with the same level.

Topplayer is tough, really tough. Every little mistake you make will kill you. No mercy at all. You need a good team and you need to play almost your best game to survive. Imo with weaker teams it's almost hopeless. But i'm still learning with a lot of room to improve my game. So i guess with time it will be easier, like always.

 

[ollywolly]

Agree with Robbery, professional is a nice challenge with the low or mid teams. Why do you think professional is fucked up on 1.01 Klash?

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I started to find the game to be better on the patched version to be honest, it doesn't feel as 'free' for sure but at least games have a more balanced feel. Pre-patch both teams are just constantly galloping from one end to the other. After all my initial praise about version 1.0 I think I might just say screw it, and play the game however Konami determine with their patches etc. At least the keepers are better.

Gonna play FL on version 1.1 on Top Player, learn the hard way. And if I give it a good go and still can't get into it, well, at least I can say I gave it a good go.

Klash, just out of interest, in what way do you prefer 1.1 on Superstar over 1.1 Top Player? Haven't tried it yet.

Oh, and does anyone use the Daymos xbox option file? I'm thinking of removing it because it's screwing with the loading times really badly, the game sometimes seems to lag when going between menu screens to the point where I think it's crashed the game. Sometimes the menu screen movie plays for a good 20-30 second before the rest of the options in the menu bar catch up and appear on screen. Does anyone else experience this? Any way to fix it? I'm on Daymos' version 1.2 option file.

 

[1m47kc0f]

PES series have been lagging behind FIFA series in the past few years and the gap seemed to be getting further and further until last year when I had a feeling Konami had begun to finally close the gap with PES 2011 for the first time. This year has been a massive disappointment for me as a football fan because all hope I had for PES 2012, which was simply improving on the good base 2011 had put for the series, were shattered.
Animations are absolutely abysmal. I have no idea what happened to Konami when the next generation consoles came out, or even after PES 2010 where a large set of newly motion captured animations were scrapped but I can point out that PES 2012’s animations, dare I say, are worse than old generation PES games. I was watching a few PES 5 matches on YouTube and I was amazed by the quality of animations back in the day and wonder why the current animations are worse than the ones released 5 years ago! There is almost no variety in animations. Part of football is all about watching your opponents’ movements and reacting according to them, however animations in PES 2012 don’t make any sense at all. Passing, shooting, crossing, goalkeeper and movement animations are not only limited, dated and unnatural at times, they just look wrong in a sense that, for example, ball trajectory does not follow the shooting or passing animation at all. I don’t expect anything like FIFA’s new fancy collision system (which is shit by the way), but something worthy of a current gen console. Is that too much to ask after so many years?!
What Konami have done this year is removing almost every good aspect of PES 2011. While FIFA has always been the pretty game, PES is now, the senses of weight, momentum and player individuality are gone.
Player individuality has come to its worst state in the series. One of the reasons I generally have preferred PES series to FIFA has been the uniqueness of players, capturing the sense of every stat in a more simulation-based experience. Ladies and gentlemen, that is history in PES 2012. Let me start by stating that shooting was one of PES 2011’s low points for me, the whole ‘body shape’ thing was lacklustre and wasn’t believable at times. Instead of toning this down to a system that made sense, Konami decided to make sure you can shoot a rocket to the top corner with Mertesacker’s weaker foot from behind the box while he is being jostled/pressured by a couple of opponents (yes, this happens on a regular basis). Also the German national can dribble past players at times, something he would never attempt in real life. And pretty much every body can play precise long balls with their weaker foot. Don’t get me wrong, I was never a big fan of elephant touches of players in PES, as some stats like ball control have been over-exaggerated in the past as well as response which has always been a bit of an issue in PES (PES 2010 anyone?), but this is rather ridiculous. My dad was watching me play Spurs the other day and he hit bull’s eye when he asked me whether that was Messi playing for Spurs with all the mazy runs and precise dribbling skills and a classic well-placed shot far away from goalkeeper’s reach. Unfortunately it was a player not known for any of those qualities: Benoît Assou-Ekotto!
Ball physics are bizarre. Time was you could rely on PES to have a whacking, hefty physics model where the ball would be loaded with lead and tackles were accompanied by a gorgeous 'wumph'. Bizarrely, distressingly, that sense of weight has gone. The ball floats listlessly through the air with unnatural trajectory, and the physics are strangely inconsistent. The ball just behaves weirdly at times, wobbling off at an unlikely trajectory or magically picking up speed and whooshing across the turf like a greased pinball. All down to the scripted nature of current-gen PES series in my opinion.
Momentum (and hence inertia) were another of PES series’ qualities which made it closer to the real thing. Being able to run like on skates like you do in FIFA was prevented due to applying these basics of physics mechanics. To add insult to injury, that sense of inertia is gone too. Players feel weightless, can turn easy. I play AI and it’s all run, stop, run stop. It looks wrong; it plays bad and all in all not only captures the essence of football, it leaves you confused and frustrated at times.
Collision Detection and Player Awareness are still poor despite being improved since last year. There are still plenty of perfect challenges that can get booked. Referees are still unsatisfactory.
Switching system and goalkeepers are still in dire need. Passing goes to wrong players when you have two players on the same path.
Ping-pong passing, shooting, crossing is still there. These were one of my main gripes about PES’s recent releases which strangely have not been identified, or ignored by the community. While EA have been slowly toning down the whole ping-pong thing year after year, Konami seem to be happy to keep it. This too removes a chunk of realism from this lifeless title.
Despite various efforts by Konami since the first beta, goalkeepers are still in a terribly unsatisfactory state. Awful response to shots, the animations, the awareness. It just adds to the terrible experience PES 2012 is.
Add all this to the fact that the game’s speed which is too fast. It feels arcady, like an ugly, half-arsed and bug-plagued version of an old FIFA title.
All in all, PES 2012 is an arcade videogame, and a very bad one. For me, this has got to be one of the worst PES titles to date in terms of both playability and realism and I would have been ashamed to have it released had I been the executive producer. And anyone calling PES a simulation should seek help from a psychiatrist urgently.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I started to find the game to be better on the patched version to be honest, it doesn't feel as 'free' for sure but at least games have a more balanced feel. Pre-patch both teams are just constantly galloping from one end to the other. After all my initial praise about version 1.0 I think I might just say screw it, and play the game however Konami determine with their patches etc. At least the keepers are better.

Gonna play FL on version 1.1 on Top Player, learn the hard way. And if I give it a good go and still can't get into it, well, at least I can say I gave it a good go.

Klash, just out of interest, in what way do you prefer 1.1 on Superstar over 1.1 Top Player? Haven't tried it yet.

Oh, and does anyone use the Daymos xbox option file? I'm thinking of removing it because it's screwing with the loading times really badly, the game sometimes seems to lag when going between menu screens to the point where I think it's crashed the game. Sometimes the menu screen movie plays for a good 20-30 second before the rest of the options in the menu bar catch up and appear on screen. Does anyone else experience this? Any way to fix it? I'm on Daymos' version 1.2 option file.

I tried to go back to post patch but i was immediately put off by the poor AI, Defensively the AI just seem to get everyone behind the ball while pre patch the defence AI tracks runs which is stunning.

I find the attacking AI to be more static which reminds me alot of Fifa 11 while pre patch it has the best AI by a country mile with players moving into space and always looking to receive the ball.

Then you have the issue of post patch shooting which the CPU takes control over 50% of the time, Shooting goes straight down the middle alot to make the keepers look good lol.

 

[1m47kc0f]

After the missis informed me she would be away with her friends for the weekend gone, I decided to phone my best mate, (who lives in Sunderland), to come down and stay at mine for the weekend. My mate is a massive PES fan, he loves his ML, but due to working away for the last 6 months, has yet to play PES 12, or even any of the demo's.

My mate, Lee, is old skool PES. In fact, upon the launch of ISS 64 on the N64, we both packed our respective girlfriends and newborn children off together to Butlins. We spent the full weekend hammering ISS64, barely sleeping, eating, and even sprinting upstairs to pee as quick as we could. Ah, the memories.

Anyway, I introduced him right from the offset to Zero Assistance. He loved it. Lee was decent player in real-life, he played with me at Durham City in the Northern League for years, so he knows the game inside-out. He, like me, was blown away with PES 12 on Zero and this whole new philosophy. We both felt that this is, by far, the most realistic replication of football we had even had the pleasure to experience.

We started off with a few 1v1 friendlies, 15 minute games, Top Player, pre-patch, Middlesbrough v Sunderland. We had some amazing games before we moved onto a World Cup, 2-Player Co-op, with England on Professional level. Wow, and I mean Wow. What an incredible experience this was with two footballing brains at work. Having one of us contain the ball-carrier whilst the other read the potential passing channels was superb. We never actually got out of our group on 3 seperate occasions, but we had one hell of a time attempting to make that happen.

The individuality on this game is mind-blowing at times. With each player bringing so much to the table. On Zero Passing Assistance, the only player we really needed to worry about on the passing front was Dawson. Lampard and Stevie G were pulling the strings from midfield and causing our CPU problems with strikes from range. Dropping the likes of Milner in to tighten up proceedings when required, and using the electric pace of Walcott late in games was simply incredible. Ashley Cole was Ashley Cole, great at reading the game with pace to burn. Andy Carroll up front was a monster, he held up everything for us, and was a great target man, and superb in the air. John Terry was just like JT, a true commanding presence with this ability to get the strong challenge in when required. In a fair but firm manner, and his positioning was off-the-map.

We then had the likes of Adam Johnson giving us that little something on the left, great poise and balance with superb feet and a cracking delivery. Then we had the likes of Jack Wilshire whose impact gave us something completely different to anyone else on the park. It was Jack, but without the injury.

There is something very, very special about playing this game on Zero Assistance. It's football simulated in it's most purest form. The need to adhere to footballing fundamentals is truly frightening. Being fully aware of body-posture, correct foot, and most importantly, angles is so realistic its uncanny. Not only do you get the most success from following these basic footballing techniques, but also being aware of which player your controlling when trying to pull off these passes and techniques, is equally as important as making sure you adhere to fundamentals. You get more assistance in this regard with the likes of Jack, Frank and Stevie G, and lesser so with the likes of Carroll et al.

Rooney pretty much had a nightmare of a World Cup Campaign, in fact, I dont remember him being on anything but a Blue throughout. His endeavour though was first-class Rooney. Always there to track back and bully his way around the park. I love that about this year, that stat is a brilliant addition.

I remember in one qualifying game we brought on Defoe in the last 10 minutes for Rooney. What an impact he had, it was 100% Defoe. Frank sprayed one from deep onto Defoe's run, Jermaine's first-touch was like watching him in real-life, slick and quick. In typical fashion, he took it down and moved it out of his feet, all in one motion. The then smashed it first time into the bottom corner from just outside the box. It was, pure, classic, Defoe.

Our best match during qualifying produced three stunning goals. Two from Stevie G and one from Carroll. A trademark Gerrard screamer from 30 yards into the top corner started the rout. Another drilled strike from Stevie, hard and low from distance made it 2-0. Then Carroll added one for his scrapbook with a chest turn, and half volley with his left foot into the top corner. His strength made it, and sometimes, just sometimes, Carroll can hit them and they truly stay hit. I will upload the video later, as it does give great examples of superb strikes.

We played PES into the early hours of Saturday night, finally getting to sleep at 5am. We spent Sunday hammering it, this time in an ML with the Boro, again, 2-Player Co-op. This was completely different again, with the individuality brutally apparent compared to the World Class players of the English national side. Goals and chances were very hard to come-by. With the rare goals accompanied by the classic fist-clenching, jumping-out-of-the-seat moments.

I've never ever played a game as realistic as PES 12. It's quite scary how this game can play with the right settings. It's beyond phenomenal, or at least it is for me.

You sir are the most brainwashed person I have ever met. And your placebo prescriptions don't work anymore. Keep your ridiculous comments for yourself.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I tried to go back to post patch but i was immediately put off by the poor AI, Defensively the AI just seem to get everyone behind the ball while pre patch the defence AI tracks runs which is stunning.

I find the attacking AI to be more static which reminds me alot of Fifa 11 while pre patch it has the best AI by a country mile with players moving into space and always looking to receive the ball.

Then you have the issue of post patch shooting which the CPU takes control over 50% of the time, Shooting goes straight down the middle alot to make the keepers look good lol.

Really? I initially agreed with you but the AI feels like it's just playing the ball up front ASAP and playing in as direct a way as possible.

I need to try the different versions again to see the difference, the AI almost plays too attacking on pre-patch. Opens up the game in an overly counter attacking way with both teams playing deep, a gaping hole in midfield and quick, direct passes up to the front men. Don't you find this too?

Really don't know which version to play FL on!

**disclaimer** not a complaint!

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

You sir are the most brainwashed person I have ever met. And your placebo prescriptions don't work anymore. Keep your ridiculous comments for yourself.

That's not very nice. Jimmy's as entitled to his opinion as anyone else, whether you agree with it or not.

 

[Evil Heat]

PES series have been lagging behind FIFA series in the past few years and the gap seemed to be getting further and further until last year when I had a feeling Konami had begun to finally close the gap with PES 2011 for the first time. This year has been a massive disappointment for me as a football fan because all hope I had for PES 2012, which was simply improving on the good base 2011 had put for the series, were shattered.
Animations are absolutely abysmal. I have no idea what happened to Konami when the next generation consoles came out, or even after PES 2010 where a large set of newly motion captured animations were scrapped but I can point out that PES 2012’s animations, dare I say, are worse than old generation PES games. I was watching a few PES 5 matches on YouTube and I was amazed by the quality of animations back in the day and wonder why the current animations are worse than the ones released 5 years ago! There is almost no variety in animations. Part of football is all about watching your opponents’ movements and reacting according to them, however animations in PES 2012 don’t make any sense at all. Passing, shooting, crossing, goalkeeper and movement animations are not only limited, dated and unnatural at times, they just look wrong in a sense that, for example, ball trajectory does not follow the shooting or passing animation at all. I don’t expect anything like FIFA’s new fancy collision system (which is shit by the way), but something worthy of a current gen console. Is that too much to ask after so many years?!
What Konami have done this year is removing almost every good aspect of PES 2011. While FIFA has always been the pretty game, PES is now, the senses of weight, momentum and player individuality are gone.
Player individuality has come to its worst state in the series. One of the reasons I generally have preferred PES series to FIFA has been the uniqueness of players, capturing the sense of every stat in a more simulation-based experience. Ladies and gentlemen, that is history in PES 2012. Let me start by stating that shooting was one of PES 2011’s low points for me, the whole ‘body shape’ thing was lacklustre and wasn’t believable at times. Instead of toning this down to a system that made sense, Konami decided to make sure you can shoot a rocket to the top corner with Mertesacker’s weaker foot from behind the box while he is being jostled/pressured by a couple of opponents (yes, this happens on a regular basis). Also the German national can dribble past players at times, something he would never attempt in real life. And pretty much every body can play precise long balls with their weaker foot. Don’t get me wrong, I was never a big fan of elephant touches of players in PES, as some stats like ball control have been over-exaggerated in the past as well as response which has always been a bit of an issue in PES (PES 2010 anyone?), but this is rather ridiculous. My dad was watching me play Spurs the other day and he hit bull’s eye when he asked me whether that was Messi playing for Spurs with all the mazy runs and precise dribbling skills and a classic well-placed shot far away from goalkeeper’s reach. Unfortunately it was a player not known for any of those qualities: Benoît Assou-Ekotto!
Ball physics are bizarre. Time was you could rely on PES to have a whacking, hefty physics model where the ball would be loaded with lead and tackles were accompanied by a gorgeous 'wumph'. Bizarrely, distressingly, that sense of weight has gone. The ball floats listlessly through the air with unnatural trajectory, and the physics are strangely inconsistent. The ball just behaves weirdly at times, wobbling off at an unlikely trajectory or magically picking up speed and whooshing across the turf like a greased pinball. All down to the scripted nature of current-gen PES series in my opinion.
Momentum (and hence inertia) were another of PES series’ qualities which made it closer to the real thing. Being able to run like on skates like you do in FIFA was prevented due to applying these basics of physics mechanics. To add insult to injury, that sense of inertia is gone too. Players feel weightless, can turn easy. I play AI and it’s all run, stop, run stop. It looks wrong; it plays bad and all in all not only captures the essence of football, it leaves you confused and frustrated at times.
Collision Detection and Player Awareness are still poor despite being improved since last year. There are still plenty of perfect challenges that can get booked. Referees are still unsatisfactory.
Switching system and goalkeepers are still in dire need. Passing goes to wrong players when you have two players on the same path.
Ping-pong passing, shooting, crossing is still there. These were one of my main gripes about PES’s recent releases which strangely have not been identified, or ignored by the community. While EA have been slowly toning down the whole ping-pong thing year after year, Konami seem to be happy to keep it. This too removes a chunk of realism from this lifeless title.
Despite various efforts by Konami since the first beta, goalkeepers are still in a terribly unsatisfactory state. Awful response to shots, the animations, the awareness. It just adds to the terrible experience PES 2012 is.
Add all this to the fact that the game’s speed which is too fast. It feels arcady, like an ugly, half-arsed and bug-plagued version of an old FIFA title.
All in all, PES 2012 is an arcade videogame, and a very bad one. For me, this has got to be one of the worst PES titles to date in terms of both playability and realism and I would have been ashamed to have it released had I been the executive producer. And anyone calling PES a simulation should seek help from a psychiatrist urgently.

I'm sure you have valid points in there somewhere, but it's near impossible to read. Can you re-edit and add some paragraphs please?

 

[Han]

PES series have been lagging behind FIFA series in the past few years and the gap seemed to be getting further and further until last year when I had a feeling Konami had begun to finally close the gap with PES 2011 for the first time. This year has been a massive disappointment for me as a football fan because all hope I had for PES 2012, which was simply improving on the good base 2011 had put for the series, were shattered.
Animations are absolutely abysmal. I have no idea what happened to Konami when the next generation consoles came out, or even after PES 2010 where a large set of newly motion captured animations were scrapped but I can point out that PES 2012’s animations, dare I say, are worse than old generation PES games. I was watching a few PES 5 matches on YouTube and I was amazed by the quality of animations back in the day and wonder why the current animations are worse than the ones released 5 years ago! There is almost no variety in animations. Part of football is all about watching your opponents’ movements and reacting according to them, however animations in PES 2012 don’t make any sense at all. Passing, shooting, crossing, goalkeeper and movement animations are not only limited, dated and unnatural at times, they just look wrong in a sense that, for example, ball trajectory does not follow the shooting or passing animation at all. I don’t expect anything like FIFA’s new fancy collision system (which is shit by the way), but something worthy of a current gen console. Is that too much to ask after so many years?!
What Konami have done this year is removing almost every good aspect of PES 2011. While FIFA has always been the pretty game, PES is now, the senses of weight, momentum and player individuality are gone.
Player individuality has come to its worst state in the series. One of the reasons I generally have preferred PES series to FIFA has been the uniqueness of players, capturing the sense of every stat in a more simulation-based experience. Ladies and gentlemen, that is history in PES 2012. Let me start by stating that shooting was one of PES 2011’s low points for me, the whole ‘body shape’ thing was lacklustre and wasn’t believable at times. Instead of toning this down to a system that made sense, Konami decided to make sure you can shoot a rocket to the top corner with Mertesacker’s weaker foot from behind the box while he is being jostled/pressured by a couple of opponents (yes, this happens on a regular basis). Also the German national can dribble past players at times, something he would never attempt in real life. And pretty much every body can play precise long balls with their weaker foot. Don’t get me wrong, I was never a big fan of elephant touches of players in PES, as some stats like ball control have been over-exaggerated in the past as well as response which has always been a bit of an issue in PES (PES 2010 anyone?), but this is rather ridiculous. My dad was watching me play Spurs the other day and he hit bull’s eye when he asked me whether that was Messi playing for Spurs with all the mazy runs and precise dribbling skills and a classic well-placed shot far away from goalkeeper’s reach. Unfortunately it was a player not known for any of those qualities: Benoît Assou-Ekotto!
Ball physics are bizarre. Time was you could rely on PES to have a whacking, hefty physics model where the ball would be loaded with lead and tackles were accompanied by a gorgeous 'wumph'. Bizarrely, distressingly, that sense of weight has gone. The ball floats listlessly through the air with unnatural trajectory, and the physics are strangely inconsistent. The ball just behaves weirdly at times, wobbling off at an unlikely trajectory or magically picking up speed and whooshing across the turf like a greased pinball. All down to the scripted nature of current-gen PES series in my opinion.
Momentum (and hence inertia) were another of PES series’ qualities which made it closer to the real thing. Being able to run like on skates like you do in FIFA was prevented due to applying these basics of physics mechanics. To add insult to injury, that sense of inertia is gone too. Players feel weightless, can turn easy. I play AI and it’s all run, stop, run stop. It looks wrong; it plays bad and all in all not only captures the essence of football, it leaves you confused and frustrated at times.
Collision Detection and Player Awareness are still poor despite being improved since last year. There are still plenty of perfect challenges that can get booked. Referees are still unsatisfactory.
Switching system and goalkeepers are still in dire need. Passing goes to wrong players when you have two players on the same path.
Ping-pong passing, shooting, crossing is still there. These were one of my main gripes about PES’s recent releases which strangely have not been identified, or ignored by the community. While EA have been slowly toning down the whole ping-pong thing year after year, Konami seem to be happy to keep it. This too removes a chunk of realism from this lifeless title.
Despite various efforts by Konami since the first beta, goalkeepers are still in a terribly unsatisfactory state. Awful response to shots, the animations, the awareness. It just adds to the terrible experience PES 2012 is.
Add all this to the fact that the game’s speed which is too fast. It feels arcady, like an ugly, half-arsed and bug-plagued version of an old FIFA title.
All in all, PES 2012 is an arcade videogame, and a very bad one. For me, this has got to be one of the worst PES titles to date in terms of both playability and realism and I would have been ashamed to have it released had I been the executive producer. And anyone calling PES a simulation should seek help from a psychiatrist urgently.

What a waiste of your time to spit this misery all over us

 

[Northzzz]

I haven't played PES in like a week and half and it has dawned on me that i have absolutely no desire to play it. Surely that says something? I really just don't feel like it's worth my time for some reason. I'm sure i'm probably not the only person in the same scenario. Something that seems unique to me perhaps is that PES is just a game, it is superfluous that it's a football game at current. I know a lot of people need a football game to play each year and put up with a plethora of negatives whether it be from Fifa or PES each year because of that but in truth i definitely don't feel that way this year. I've got less free time than ever before. I find it a bit sad. I want to play the game because of its merits, and it does have them, but the negatives drag it down too much (no need to go into them again). It's the same as any game. If the negatives can outweigh the positives, and sometimes they do in PES, then i see no reason to put up with them just because i know i'm only doing so because it's a football game. Right now i have Borderlands, Resonance of Fate, Shadow of The Colossus, GTA IV, GTA III, Fallout New Vegas and some old ps2 games that i'm currently playing. Pes doesn't have any appeal over those for it to take up my decreasing amount of free time.

I'm not putting this in the not happy with pes thread because i don't mean to bitch about the game at all. It's just my attitude towards the game in general, not any individual weaknesses of the game.

 

[Lons]

PES series have been lagging behind FIFA series in the past few years and the gap seemed to be getting further and further until last year when I had a feeling Konami had begun to finally close the gap with PES 2011 for the first time. This year has been a massive disappointment for me as a football fan because all hope I had for PES 2012, which was simply improving on the good base 2011 had put for the series, were shattered.
Animations are absolutely abysmal. I have no idea what happened to Konami when the next generation consoles came out, or even after PES 2010 where a large set of newly motion captured animations were scrapped but I can point out that PES 2012’s animations, dare I say, are worse than old generation PES games. I was watching a few PES 5 matches on YouTube and I was amazed by the quality of animations back in the day and wonder why the current animations are worse than the ones released 5 years ago! There is almost no variety in animations. Part of football is all about watching your opponents’ movements and reacting according to them, however animations in PES 2012 don’t make any sense at all. Passing, shooting, crossing, goalkeeper and movement animations are not only limited, dated and unnatural at times, they just look wrong in a sense that, for example, ball trajectory does not follow the shooting or passing animation at all. I don’t expect anything like FIFA’s new fancy collision system (which is shit by the way), but something worthy of a current gen console. Is that too much to ask after so many years?!
What Konami have done this year is removing almost every good aspect of PES 2011. While FIFA has always been the pretty game, PES is now, the senses of weight, momentum and player individuality are gone.
Player individuality has come to its worst state in the series. One of the reasons I generally have preferred PES series to FIFA has been the uniqueness of players, capturing the sense of every stat in a more simulation-based experience. Ladies and gentlemen, that is history in PES 2012. Let me start by stating that shooting was one of PES 2011’s low points for me, the whole ‘body shape’ thing was lacklustre and wasn’t believable at times. Instead of toning this down to a system that made sense, Konami decided to make sure you can shoot a rocket to the top corner with Mertesacker’s weaker foot from behind the box while he is being jostled/pressured by a couple of opponents (yes, this happens on a regular basis). Also the German national can dribble past players at times, something he would never attempt in real life. And pretty much every body can play precise long balls with their weaker foot. Don’t get me wrong, I was never a big fan of elephant touches of players in PES, as some stats like ball control have been over-exaggerated in the past as well as response which has always been a bit of an issue in PES (PES 2010 anyone?), but this is rather ridiculous. My dad was watching me play Spurs the other day and he hit bull’s eye when he asked me whether that was Messi playing for Spurs with all the mazy runs and precise dribbling skills and a classic well-placed shot far away from goalkeeper’s reach. Unfortunately it was a player not known for any of those qualities: Benoît Assou-Ekotto!
Ball physics are bizarre. Time was you could rely on PES to have a whacking, hefty physics model where the ball would be loaded with lead and tackles were accompanied by a gorgeous 'wumph'. Bizarrely, distressingly, that sense of weight has gone. The ball floats listlessly through the air with unnatural trajectory, and the physics are strangely inconsistent. The ball just behaves weirdly at times, wobbling off at an unlikely trajectory or magically picking up speed and whooshing across the turf like a greased pinball. All down to the scripted nature of current-gen PES series in my opinion.
Momentum (and hence inertia) were another of PES series’ qualities which made it closer to the real thing. Being able to run like on skates like you do in FIFA was prevented due to applying these basics of physics mechanics. To add insult to injury, that sense of inertia is gone too. Players feel weightless, can turn easy. I play AI and it’s all run, stop, run stop. It looks wrong; it plays bad and all in all not only captures the essence of football, it leaves you confused and frustrated at times.
Collision Detection and Player Awareness are still poor despite being improved since last year. There are still plenty of perfect challenges that can get booked. Referees are still unsatisfactory.
Switching system and goalkeepers are still in dire need. Passing goes to wrong players when you have two players on the same path.
Ping-pong passing, shooting, crossing is still there. These were one of my main gripes about PES’s recent releases which strangely have not been identified, or ignored by the community. While EA have been slowly toning down the whole ping-pong thing year after year, Konami seem to be happy to keep it. This too removes a chunk of realism from this lifeless title.
Despite various efforts by Konami since the first beta, goalkeepers are still in a terribly unsatisfactory state. Awful response to shots, the animations, the awareness. It just adds to the terrible experience PES 2012 is.
Add all this to the fact that the game’s speed which is too fast. It feels arcady, like an ugly, half-arsed and bug-plagued version of an old FIFA title.
All in all, PES 2012 is an arcade videogame, and a very bad one. For me, this has got to be one of the worst PES titles to date in terms of both playability and realism and I would have been ashamed to have it released had I been the executive producer. And anyone calling PES a simulation should seek help from a psychiatrist urgently.

What a fuckin bullshit

 

[priskinsprick]

I like the game!

But only on 4 bar passing!

The manual and free game of the demo is gone (and sadly probably forgotten), but as a fully assisted game it's decent enough on master league with original ml players!

The manual passing in the full release just doesn't work for me, and I have played over 150 games on 0 bars with ml original players. Chipped throughballs, first time throughballs and short throughballs only work with the assistance I'm afraid...

But I AM enjoying pes2012 as an assisted old school footy game!

 

[Srider]

For those who are thoroughly enjoying 2012, how do you deal with passes being under hit? or do you not experience it?

It is very strange how some videos I see online people seem to not have this problem, but no matter what team I use or whichever pass assistance level 99% of passes are under hit (usually anything less than 20 yards or so).

 

[Ximenez]

What a waiste of your time to spit this misery all over us

He "waisted" his time giving his opinion on the game? I guess like everyone else who posted on the 400+ pages of this thread? Or is it only because he is posting something negative about the game? My guess is the latter.

Such a post wouldn't be tolerated if it was aimed at a positive review.

What a fuckin bullshit

Actually there is nothing in there that is "a fuckin bullshit". I can only assume that you didn't read much of the post, simply because of it's format.

The animations are appalling. Not quite to the extent that 5 years ago was better (simply because they were more limited so could refine them more) but in the context he is using the word, it is quite ridiculous. Countless times a player will hit a ball with the "outside" of their foot but the ball will travel in the direction of an inside foot strike. Players aren't even facing the goal and are heading the ball towards goal with power like someone who's just run onto cross. And let's not start on the keepers letting shots go through their hands/skimming their hair/waist height shots.

Player individuality is definately at a low. Defending is so ridiculous that a lot of the time is doesn't matter if you have Rafael/Fabio or Chris Smalling at the back, you're getting owned. Not to mention anyone with the "speed merchant" card that can run through half a team effortlessly. Ignazio Abate springs to mind here. And while again he is exaggerting with the Mertesacker example, the shooting is ridiculous at times, actually to the point where I was baffled when all the cries about scripted shooting came up.

Collision detection is continually getting worse, there really is no getting around that. Goalkeepers are better on the patch, but are still awful.

I really don't see what is "bullshit" about his post. If you look at the game objectively he makes very valid points. But that is clearly hard for some to do on here.

 

[Northzzz]

The manual passing in the full release just doesn't work for me, and I have played over 150 games on 0 bars with ml original players. Chipped throughballs, first time throughballs and short throughballs only work with the assistance I'm afraid...

Actually that is true. I noticed that if you receive the ball you have to take a first touch otherwise any chipped ball you attempt will ultimately fail. I like the idea in concept but only if the ball is moving fast should you have to take a touch to get it under control before you attempt to put a ball in. It doesn't matter what speed the ball is moving at though.

It's so annoying for crosses at times. The amount of times i think i'm powering up a cross to go to the back post or in the six yard box/DANGER AREA only for it to go 5 yards ahead of me is far too often. It always happens unless you happen to cross the sweet line (which is effectively in line with the edge of the 18 yard box). The thing is if you press the button to do a first time cross (lb+cross) then it works perfectly. I don't always want to play that kind of cross though.

 

[klashman69]

For those who are thoroughly enjoying 2012, how do you deal with passes being under hit? or do you not experience it?

It is very strange how some videos I see online people seem to not have this problem, but no matter what team I use or whichever pass assistance level 99% of passes are under hit (usually anything less than 20 yards or so).

Same as every football game, just make sure next time you use the correct power or make a better choice of pass.

Also helps if you critisise the game once youvmaster it so you get the best picture what is wrong.

 

[mjp]

Actually that is true. I noticed that if you receive the ball you have to take a first touch otherwise any chipped ball you attempt will ultimately fail. I like the idea in concept but only if the ball is moving fast should you have to take a touch to get it under control before you attempt to put a ball in. It doesn't matter what speed the ball is moving at though.

It's so annoying for crosses at times. The amount of times i think i'm powering up a cross to go to the back post or in the six yard box/DANGER AREA only for it to go 5 yards ahead of me is far too often. It always happens unless you happen to cross the sweet line (which is effectively in line with the edge of the 18 yard box). The thing is if you press the button to do a first time cross (lb+cross) then it works perfectly. I don't always want to play that kind of cross though.

How about if you used manual pass for first time crosses? Would that work? Just a thought, haven't tried it myself, I'm still tip-toeing down the assistance scale :-)

 

[klashman69]

PES series have been lagging behind FIFA series in the past few years and the gap seemed to be getting further and further until last year when I had a feeling Konami had begun to finally close the gap with PES 2011 for the first time. This year has been a massive disappointment for me as a football fan because all hope I had for PES 2012, which was simply improving on the good base 2011 had put for the series, were shattered.
Animations are absolutely abysmal. I have no idea what happened to Konami when the next generation consoles came out, or even after PES 2010 where a large set of newly motion captured animations were scrapped but I can point out that PES 2012’s animations, dare I say, are worse than old generation PES games. I was watching a few PES 5 matches on YouTube and I was amazed by the quality of animations back in the day and wonder why the current animations are worse than the ones released 5 years ago! There is almost no variety in animations. Part of football is all about watching your opponents’ movements and reacting according to them, however animations in PES 2012 don’t make any sense at all. Passing, shooting, crossing, goalkeeper and movement animations are not only limited, dated and unnatural at times, they just look wrong in a sense that, for example, ball trajectory does not follow the shooting or passing animation at all. I don’t expect anything like FIFA’s new fancy collision system (which is shit by the way), but something worthy of a current gen console. Is that too much to ask after so many years?!
What Konami have done this year is removing almost every good aspect of PES 2011. While FIFA has always been the pretty game, PES is now, the senses of weight, momentum and player individuality are gone.
Player individuality has come to its worst state in the series. One of the reasons I generally have preferred PES series to FIFA has been the uniqueness of players, capturing the sense of every stat in a more simulation-based experience. Ladies and gentlemen, that is history in PES 2012. Let me start by stating that shooting was one of PES 2011’s low points for me, the whole ‘body shape’ thing was lacklustre and wasn’t believable at times. Instead of toning this down to a system that made sense, Konami decided to make sure you can shoot a rocket to the top corner with Mertesacker’s weaker foot from behind the box while he is being jostled/pressured by a couple of opponents (yes, this happens on a regular basis). Also the German national can dribble past players at times, something he would never attempt in real life. And pretty much every body can play precise long balls with their weaker foot. Don’t get me wrong, I was never a big fan of elephant touches of players in PES, as some stats like ball control have been over-exaggerated in the past as well as response which has always been a bit of an issue in PES (PES 2010 anyone?), but this is rather ridiculous. My dad was watching me play Spurs the other day and he hit bull’s eye when he asked me whether that was Messi playing for Spurs with all the mazy runs and precise dribbling skills and a classic well-placed shot far away from goalkeeper’s reach. Unfortunately it was a player not known for any of those qualities: Benoît Assou-Ekotto!
Ball physics are bizarre. Time was you could rely on PES to have a whacking, hefty physics model where the ball would be loaded with lead and tackles were accompanied by a gorgeous 'wumph'. Bizarrely, distressingly, that sense of weight has gone. The ball floats listlessly through the air with unnatural trajectory, and the physics are strangely inconsistent. The ball just behaves weirdly at times, wobbling off at an unlikely trajectory or magically picking up speed and whooshing across the turf like a greased pinball. All down to the scripted nature of current-gen PES series in my opinion.
Momentum (and hence inertia) were another of PES series’ qualities which made it closer to the real thing. Being able to run like on skates like you do in FIFA was prevented due to applying these basics of physics mechanics. To add insult to injury, that sense of inertia is gone too. Players feel weightless, can turn easy. I play AI and it’s all run, stop, run stop. It looks wrong; it plays bad and all in all not only captures the essence of football, it leaves you confused and frustrated at times.
Collision Detection and Player Awareness are still poor despite being improved since last year. There are still plenty of perfect challenges that can get booked. Referees are still unsatisfactory.
Switching system and goalkeepers are still in dire need. Passing goes to wrong players when you have two players on the same path.
Ping-pong passing, shooting, crossing is still there. These were one of my main gripes about PES’s recent releases which strangely have not been identified, or ignored by the community. While EA have been slowly toning down the whole ping-pong thing year after year, Konami seem to be happy to keep it. This too removes a chunk of realism from this lifeless title.
Despite various efforts by Konami since the first beta, goalkeepers are still in a terribly unsatisfactory state. Awful response to shots, the animations, the awareness. It just adds to the terrible experience PES 2012 is.
Add all this to the fact that the game’s speed which is too fast. It feels arcady, like an ugly, half-arsed and bug-plagued version of an old FIFA title.
All in all, PES 2012 is an arcade videogame, and a very bad one. For me, this has got to be one of the worst PES titles to date in terms of both playability and realism and I would have been ashamed to have it released had I been the executive producer. And anyone calling PES a simulation should seek help from a psychiatrist urgently.

Put it on -2.

I myself thought with the demos that the game was good but had lost too much of the individuallity of old from es 2011. but i put it on -2 and eventually all of PES 2011 came backk but better with better animtions responsivness and even more depth.

All that drama and poor grammar in your post could have been saved if you had layed around with the seed settings. All you say is tre, BUT true for PES on 0 speed and 4 passing bars which it sounds like your playing on.

If you loved PES 2011 you WILL love PES 2012 on -2 and 0 passing ort maybe 1 or 2 bars. PES 2012 is PES 2011 evolved, all the great stuff from PES 2011 is still there, just shifted back into -2 and some parts in -1!

 

[Northzzz]

How about if you used manual pass for first time crosses? Would that work? Just a thought, haven't tried it myself, I'm still tip-toeing down the assistance scale :-)

I play on zero passing assistance and it's there. If you meant manual as in LT + Cross then i haven't tried that. First time crosses are fine with the 'early cross' but it's always annoying when you aren't sure if you've crossed that magic line (again somewhere near the 18 yard line) where crosses work, by that i mean have power, without a first touch. Again that's something that completely puts me off. Am i over that line or not? I have no idea how much power i should be putting on at times because if i'm over that line then it over hits them massively but if i'm not over that line then it puts next to no real power on them.

 

[klashman69]

I play on zero passing assistance and it's there. If you meant manual as in LT + Cross then i haven't tried that. First time crosses are fine with the 'early cross' but it's always annoying when you aren't sure if you've crossed that magic line (again somewhere near the 18 yard line) where crosses work, by that i mean have power, without a first touch. Again that's something that completely puts me off. Am i over that line or not? I have no idea how much power i should be putting on at times because if i'm over that line then it over hits them massively but if i'm not over that line then it puts next to no real power on them.

I'm not happy with the crossing on this game myself, overall it's too accurate for me and the CPU, what do you suggest Konami do to improve this?

 

[mjp]

I play on zero passing assistance and it's there. If you meant manual as in LT + Cross then i haven't tried that. First time crosses are fine with the 'early cross' but it's always annoying when you aren't sure if you've crossed that magic line (again somewhere near the 18 yard line) where crosses work, by that i mean have power, without a first touch. Again that's something that completely puts me off. Am i over that line or not? I have no idea how much power i should be putting on at times because if i'm over that line then it over hits them massively but if i'm not over that line then it puts next to no real power on them.

Yep, LT + Cross is what I meant. I've had that annoying thing where you think you're over the sweet spot and it just chips the ball a few metres ahead of you so I know what you and Klashman are referring to.

 

[Northzzz]

I'm not happy with the crossing on this game myself, overall it's too accurate for me and the CPU, what do you suggest Konami do to improve this?

Yeah it's a difficult issue. I'd like to see individual attributes come into play when crosses but in all honesty any player can whip in a good ball or completely mess it up. If players are given acres of space in which to deliver a good cross then perhaps we should see attribute specifics come into play. I'm still of the opinion that crossing success should take into factors like speed, how tighly you're being pressured and positioning much much more. Outright sprinting when crossing should lead to more mistakes (i.e scuffing it or not being able to get height on it). Positioning of both the ball and player in relation to one another should have an effect i.e if you're not facing the box then your cross should be affected more. It might be a bit debatable to say it but crossing in real life ends up being pretty random if you're being pressured tightly by the opposition. Unless you make space for yourself then crosses shouldn't be as accurate as they are currently. It'd create a new essence to wing play i guess. I for one really would like to see more battling on the wing. A team like Man United focus a lot of play down the wings and it's never as easy to get a ball in as it seems to be in PES.

Evra's crosses should never beat the first man. That'd be realistic.