PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

i have the feeling those disappointed by the game desperately need to believe that pre patch version is better than post patch, but to me they are like 99% similar

i tried shooting in training mode without and with patch, same player, same condition and there were no noticeably differences

Let's specifiy this is all IMO
 
I don't believe it's just a placebo, what I did notice with pre-patch is much more fun in midfield. In other words: there IS a midfield, as opposed to 1.01. (at least for me).

Shooting is the same to me though, but I am not a good player, so it might be me.
 
Re: Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Luckily, I can play PES on the laptop inbetween work and then get on fourth to Arkham on the PS3 at night. AC is indeed excellence.

Back to PES however, I've played two 20-minute exhibition matches on Top Player following curdstar's GK stat boost recommendations (thanks for them) and it's left me wondering why I didn't ramp up these attributes before. There's a definite positive difference, but still the odd balls up - which is great. Going to have to edit all the keepers this weekend now.
 
Curdstar, can you post what attributes you're tweaking for keepers?

I'ma start anew ML with a Championship OF + ramped up keepers
 
Need to head out but I have a 4 team pack I will upload featuring Barca, Milan, Villareal and River Plate. All have keeper stats tweaked in various ways.

I figure for as much as I am happy with the results (they are not perfect and never will be)it is best to get more people playing with them to see how things develop.
 
curdstar said:
Need to head out but I have a 4 team pack I will upload featuring Barca, Milan, Villareal and River Plate. All have keeper stats tweaked in various ways.

I figure for as much as I am happy with the results (they are not perfect and never will be)it is best to get more people playing with them to see how things develop.
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we'll be adding all this data to our file too,thanks for the heads up:))
 
curdstar said:
Need to head out but I have a 4 team pack I will upload featuring Barca, Milan, Villareal and River Plate. All have keeper stats tweaked in various ways.

I figure for as much as I am happy with the results (they are not perfect and never will be)it is best to get more people playing with them to see how things develop.
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Nice, which stats though? I'll have to go through the editor and do it myself to retain all the Championship teams etc.

edit; Nevermind, completely missed your post detailing them on the other page, cheers!
 
Aye, basically what to do is just make them good players who happen to have excellent keeper stats and work from there.

In the team pack I have been fairly liberal with values to Abiati and Valdes, with others seeing a little more in the way of gradual tweaks to keeper stats whilst upping basic playing ability stats a fair amount.

I have now done Santos and Penarol seeing as they featured in the first demo. They haven't been tested but all keepers in each squad have again been done.

Should be up in the next 30mins
 
KEEPER EDIT TEST PACK

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VO9QGOU1

6 teams for you try out with edited keepers. Feedback wanted as I have used different methods with the one thing remaining consistent is that all have had basic football abilities such as heading, passing, ball control upped (Ball Control I have been very liberal with) and in some cases Defensive awareness level has been upped to three. I have also made a point of boosting Tenacity, Stamina, Jump, Body Balance, Explosiveness, Responsiveness so as they are in the 80's and in the case of better keepers the 90's or even high 90's. The intention of this test pack is to get feedback so try and use all the keepers available. Test all squads keepers out if possible.

I think I may have forgotten to up Barca's reserve keepers so you can use then and of course other keepers in the game to compare how much stats have been boosted.

Listen, so far it is only me how has tried these out and your experience could well differ from my own. Also, the simple fact is that the keepers don't animate well and unfortunately no amount of editing is going to change that, so expect errors if they are being peppered with shots or have to deal with deflected efforts.

Later on, if all goes well or simply a bit better for all I will maybe break down what I have done to each stat and how I have looked to approach it regards logic. It should be said I have tested most of this out on patch 1.00. I am certain they can be tuned better but this is a starting point at least for all to consider. We shouldn't have to do this but if needs must.

Should results prove fairly positive I will be making a point of documenting this for direct feedback.
 
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Konami are better of without fan feedback for the gameplay.
But for other things they desperately need feedback. I remember a very enjoyable mode were you could play qualifiers and then a World Cup, that mode is gone...
Somethin i don't understand is the choice of teams in the game. In PES2012 there are two Belgian teams: Genk and Standard. Not choosing Anderlecht is like taking tow Spanish teams and going for Sevilla and Villareal (very good teams but not going for Barcelona and Real Madrid). Am i an Anderlecht fan? No, i am a Genk fan...
These are mere examples, there are dozens of similar things where Konami desperately need feedback.
 
adamjensen said:
well if we could reach a consensus and lobby konami about it maybe it's not too late to get the game fixed to how it was pre-patch, but i guess catering for peoples' tastes is more important
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If the WENB twitter petition for pass assistance lobbies is successful, and we get konami to do something about it, the pre-patch issue may be next on the list.
 
By petitioning for a fix we're still catering for our tastes, aren't we?
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I see where you are coming from, but we could say environmentalists are petitioning for their tastes about how we should keep the world clean, some people might wish there was pollution everywhere, but any sensible person realises that view is rather silly and should be ignored. Rather like in this situation, the view that a game where there is no midfield and every team from barcelona to brighton pack the penalty area is better is also silly and therefore should be easy to ignore.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Great call on the Keeper stats by the way Alan, nice find.

Ok, so last night I managed to apply Goalgerd's Option File, and what a superb file that is by the way. After I was done, I was desperate to get Online with the Zero Assistance lads, but before that, I thought I'd give this whole 1.01 Patch removal a little test.

The first game, with the patch, I played as Boro against Millwall on Professional. The game ended 2-1 to Millwall. It was quite a drab affair to be honest, a little tedious, with my players pretty static, and the CPU camping every man and his dog behind the ball. The pressure from the CPU was brutal at times, and well, it just wasnt massively enjoyable. Far from it.

I then removed the Patch and played again with the same teams and same settings. I only needed 5 minutes play to notice the huge difference between the two matches. The pre-patch game felt so open, so free and so much more enjoyable. I was finding the A.i making some fantastic runs off the ball, my players were no longer static. The dribbling also felt more free, more angles, and like someone mentioned, the ball didnt feel like it was on a tight piece of string attached to the players foot, like the Patched version.

The passing on Zero also felt crisper and more accurate, and even the shooting felt like it had even more zip and variation. I dont have a problem at all the the shooting on the Patched version, but somehow, this definitely felt better. I didnt notice a huge difference between the keepers, but overall, the experience was far more enjoyable. The game ended 2-1 to Boro in the second game, but it was so, so much better.

I didnt exactltly doubt peoples findings on here, but as always, I dont need to feel if for myself. And I most certainly did, the difference was huge.

So that's it settled. I'll play offline pre-patch, and when I want to go online, obviously download the patch for that. It's a shame really, I just think that Online between fair people would be even better again if the gameplay was pre-patch, but it is what it is. And I still had some amazing game against Zee and co. online, regardless.
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Glad you gave it a go mate, it's given this game a new lease of life already! :)

For the first time since release day I've been able to sit down and have a good session on this, and primarily compared the game with and without the patch to settle on which to choose for my FL campaign.

I tried the same teams, settings etc except difficulty and the patch. I played England v Switzerland, first WITH the patch, on Professional, then a game on Top Player. At first it felt okay, I was still able to make a bit of an impact with good dribblers like Wilshere (who is IMMENSE in this game along with Hazard of Belgium). I drew most of the games 0-0, or 1-1, chances were at a premium.

I then removed the patch, and played the same teams, and my fears were confirmed on Professional when I found it too easy, keepers were dodgy etc. I then put it up to Top Player, pre-patch, and it's amazing. I even lost the game 2-0, did worse than the game with the patch, and it still felt more balanced, more open, more fun.

The AI differences between patches I think are that the AI, pre-patch, stands off within a certain radius, whereas post-patch it doesn't care, it just goes right into the tackle with too much precision. The AI, post-patch, plays very deep, and relies far too much on charging only up to between 1-3 attackers up the pitch when they win the ball, as the rest of the side are way too deep. This makes games feel like there's a lack of space when you win the ball, then when you lose it you're constantly sprinting around to try and stop a counter attack. Makes the pace of the game feel more 'arcade' like for lack of a better expression.

Remove the patch, put it up to Top Player, and not only do the keepers feel far better (I think all the patch did was make keepers on Professional level up to the standard they are on Top Player), but the AI still defends more effectively but by using better positioning, and less pressure. So, you now have the option to beat a man with the right players, or several men at once, but often if you do this you still find it tough because the AI follows up with better player positioning. So it's more forgiving but not as easy on Top Player. Likewise, the AI players more offensively, not as deep, so when it gets the ball, it has more attacking options, and I think it allows the AI to 'decide' to play a slower pace of game, and keep the ball more. Post-patch, if they play it up to two lone strikers way ahead of the play, it'll keep up a fast game to counter attack. Now, pre-patch, Top Player seems to identify passing options that are more readily available and the standard of passing/shooting etc is still just as tough. But the AI plays a more balanced, patient style of play with more supporting attackers. It makes games more open but actually provides more of a goal threat which is great.

Like you said, Jimmy, passing seems better. One touch that I noticed this morning, and that I LOVE to bits, is the difference in one-touch passing. Wilshere and Rooney can tap lovely little first touch passes for fun, but I nearly conceded a goal at the other end because I was playing it around at the back, got myself into a tight spot, and Terry and Dawson both played first time passes that were woeful - inaccurate, slow, bobbly, they didn't have the relevant stats and technique to play that type of pass. Brilliant.

The pace of the game, and even the ball, feels more realistic pre-patch, on Top Player I can still dribble, make space, and make use of speed when I need to, but the covering play the AI can do still makes up for it, and feels more organic than the post-patch game.

So, if anyone's struggling to enjoy the game, I'd recommend doing the following;

1. Remove the patch.
2. Play on wide cam
3. Game speed -2
4. Player switching; semi-assisted
5. Set passing assistance to zero
6. Set all assisted controls to 'off'.
7. Play Top player, or at least when you've got the hang of things.

It'll be interesting to see what Superstar is like pre-patch too. Some people are suggesting it's a better game than Top Player, but we'll see. Also, people need to remember that if you're gonna play a game mode, then FL for example will see the game difficulty ramp up slightly more than friendlies anyways. This is always the case, so there's plenty of challenge to be had pre-patch. On Top Player, I've seen no dodgy keeping at all.

While I'm on a long winded write-up of the game(!), I also think that keepers are designed this time round so that you need to protect them more. This doesn't apply to awful goalkeeping gaffes, of course, but I have noticed that keepers rarely save, say, headers from medium to close range. People might complain about this, but particularly with the standard of players most of us use in the game, in real life you'll rarely see keepers pulling off saves from headers within six yards or less. From this far out, the odds are weighed in the attacker's favour unless they head it straight at the keeper or put it wide, which also happens in the game.

**Edit** Oh, and I love how Konami left in the little sound bite at the end of the game when the stats are up on screen and you can see the men raking the pitch. At certain points in the general crowd noise you can hear some random dude shouting "fucking wanka!" in a mockney accent. Brilliant!
 
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Here's a couple of neat dribbles I managed to pull off earlier today. First is Wilshere, the second is Joe Cole, both Top Player. So it is possible to get that level of freedom pre-patch on the higher difficulties :)

YouTube - 201011 0381

YouTube - 211011 0417

One complaint I do have though is the level of possession you have. I always seem to finish on nearly 60% of the play, even if I get hammered. I just played England v France, somehow scraped a 1-1 draw thanks to a late Rooney header, but the final stats showed I had just 3 shots on goal to their 14, yet I had 61% of the possession. That's not a realistic representation of how a game should be to be honest.
 
need a few quick answer guys about this game.

Looking to purchase on PC.

If i play against barcelona and then play against a low skill team, will i be seeing a difference? i.e pass accuracy very much higher with barca, style of play etc

If the answer is yes, do I have to edit the teams myself to make them play like that or do they play correctly out of the box?

Reason I ask is i'm back from holiday and hearing that this game has lost its simulation roots according to reviews, so I still want to know if individuality and CPU AI is still better than the rival.

Thank you for your time fellas.
 
gerd said:
Konami are better of without fan feedback for the gameplay.
But for other things they desperately need feedback. I remember a very enjoyable mode were you could play qualifiers and then a World Cup, that mode is gone...
Somethin i don't understand is the choice of teams in the game. In PES2012 there are two Belgian teams: Genk and Standard. Not choosing Anderlecht is like taking tow Spanish teams and going for Sevilla and Villareal (very good teams but not going for Barcelona and Real Madrid). Am i an Anderlecht fan? No, i am a Genk fan...
These are mere examples, there are dozens of similar things where Konami desperately need feedback.
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Yeah I agree. The big two or three teams from every European country should be in the game regardless of Champions/Europa League qualification.

Not having Anderlecht or Club Brugge in the game is beyond comprehension. It would be like leaving out Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV if there wasn't a Dutch league in the game. I can't believe there are licensing issues for the smaller teams (no disrespect) behind this decision, more like Konami being tight on their budget.

Konami need to be careful about leaving out big sides. I can see many fans of Anderlecht or Club Bruges switching to Fifa to play as their favourite team.
 
MindlessDrugHoover said:
need a few quick answer guys about this game.

Looking to purchase on PC.

If i play against barcelona and then play against a low skill team, will i be seeing a difference? i.e pass accuracy very much higher with barca, style of play etc

If the answer is yes, do I have to edit the teams myself to make them play like that or do they play correctly out of the box?

Reason I ask is i'm back from holiday and hearing that this game has lost its simulation roots according to reviews, so I still want to know if individuality and CPU AI is still better than the rival.

Thank you for your time fellas.
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It hasn't lost its simulation roots, that's just typical lazy review bollocks. It's just that Konami in their infinite wisdom made the default settings very easy and arcade-like, presumably to attract new players. If you play on the settings the game is set to by default, it's true, it doesn't feel very much like a football simulation, especially with the animations (which are still shite).

You have to switch off the cpu assistance - especially passing assistance, which should be on 0 bars for the real experience, but you can start with 2 bars to get a feel for the game first. You also might want to knock the game speed down to -1 offline, and play on Professional rather than Top Player (Professional is a LOT harder this year). Once you've done that, and got a feel for the game, you'll see that it's very different from the frantic ping-pongy crap you get out of the box. And cos you're on PC, you can take advantage of the gameplay mods anyway, which I'm told are great this year.

Online games between two players on zero assistance are awesome this year. Just avoid MLO because everyone's using full assistance on everything, and it's all a bit of a nightmare.
 
Really loving the game now, re-patch top player, keep swapping between this and AC every few hours. All that's needed is for the cpu to keep better possession, and this game could take the all time title.
 
The 1.01 gameplay died alongside Gaddafi, surrounded and battered like a counterfeit symbol of trust. Like Libyans, we move free, retain faith and breathe easier via the loss of tyrannical gameplay. :salute:
 
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