sincover
Championship
- 16 August 2010
NOWWW!!!! WITH SOME APLOMB.
PC owners check out: http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2363537#post2363537
PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......
- Thread starter Jimmy G-Force
- Start date
NOWWW!!!! WITH SOME APLOMB.
PC owners check out: http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2363537#post2363537
Holy words my friend!
Thank you for posting this brilliant comment, it should be put as main header on WENB where the hype is the fuel.
Musy
League 2
If that happened in a match with me, I would just find it hilarious.
But if it was an important ML game or something, then I understand
Expander
Banned
- 4 May 2010
I cant believe people on WENB are saying the differences between pre and post patch are placebo.What a insult to the vast majority of pes veterans that frequent this site and some of the testers that are work with.Its so jarringly obvious the difference.
I dont mind people prefering one or the other as its always going to be a matter of taste,but jeeez.Even the pes messiah himself has re-appeared from the wilderness and all of a sudden and nearly everyone on WENB is agreeing with him and his preference for patch 1.01.Havent they got there own minds.Just because he didnt discover it,has this guy no shame.
Of course hes going to back patch 1.01,he was probably the main reason the the gamplay did alter so much after the update,because jon murphy and konami seem to listen to him more then anyone else in this community.Then hes claiming patch 1.01 is what konami always intended for the final version pes2012,what a load of bollocks.Because patch 1.01 breaks the game and the ai.
Sorry lami,im not stirring trouble and will leave it there.
I dont mind people prefering one or the other as its always going to be a matter of taste,but jeeez.Even the pes messiah himself has re-appeared from the wilderness and all of a sudden and nearly everyone on WENB is agreeing with him and his preference for patch 1.01.Havent they got there own minds.Just because he didnt discover it,has this guy no shame.
Of course hes going to back patch 1.01,he was probably the main reason the the gamplay did alter so much after the update,because jon murphy and konami seem to listen to him more then anyone else in this community.Then hes claiming patch 1.01 is what konami always intended for the final version pes2012,what a load of bollocks.Because patch 1.01 breaks the game and the ai.
Sorry lami,im not stirring trouble and will leave it there.
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I have played a few games now on regular and i see a slight improvement. I have to say though that on regular it's far too easy to run through players. Maybe i need more matches to try it out.
ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
I have to agree with everything you say there, I'm currently challenging him on the issues. But I will leave it there after tonight (on WENB). It's obvious to me that he will come out and back the post patch, he'd look foolish otherwise, even Alan is saying it's better! Then all the little followers are scattering about saying that post patch is better...it's simply not, each to their own.
My ideas on this are thus and it boils down to -
1) Whether you want to have two types of defensive philosophy contain or high pressure. Pre patch you can challenge high up the patch, post patch it is simply not possible because of the CPU ghosting. So post patch, there is only one way to defend!
2) Whether you want your shots to go where you aim
3) Whether you want every team to camp 8 players in the area and constantly counter you, or whether you want the freedom to create
4) Whether you want every CPU player to have Jedi reflexes and ot be able to tackle anybody, or whether you want only the best players to skin you.
That for me is what it boils down to!
Expander
Banned
- 4 May 2010
Exactly,you have the choice pre-patch its not forced as it is post patch.Careful though he will only ban you,its his little dictatorship.
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curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
C'mon, not this again. It is an opinion based on his own experiences. There is no party line being towed nor is it the case that 1.01 is precisely the game he or we asked for as when we feed back we feed everything back from all sources. I do feedback docs and not only use WENB threads but will look here as well. I used to take note of PESFan chatter but less so these days as to be honest it has become a bit of a creche and folks feedback tends to be ''why isn't this FIFA?'' over there.
I have jumped between both versions and can see good and bad points in both. As an offline only player I have no trouble changing up the game as I see fit by deleting or installing the patch and have found myself playing libertadores minus the patch for enhanced response and easier passing, and use the patched version when I want to play -2 speed ML or other competitions. This of course was not a developer design decision to make it this way but at least most are finding the game they want to play and I have no doubt there are things in both versions the devs and the fans would like to see improved. I also believe that a lot of problems that may be apparent in both versions are by-products of balancing the game - I don't think there is a Konami cover up here and it is just a case of them probably having to balance her out further, taking the strengths from both versions and enhancing other assets. Again, not ideal for any game let alone PES but the silver lining is that you, Adam, me or others who want to enjoy the game and can do so.
I personally hope that future gameplay patches are clearly outlined regards what they do and come as a downloadable option via the extra content menu. Keep these tweaks separate from maintenance/prep patches and I think it would be a decent feature to have. Of course, it goes pretty much against the one size fits all policy I think PES should have but if needs must and it makes more people happy I would sooner have that than sliders or any other variables that can muddle the game somewhat.
That last comment wasn't aimed at any user here I should say.
Expander
Banned
- 4 May 2010
Alan,im going to leave it there.I have to much respect for you as a person,and believe it or not,me and you are of the same generation with very similiar likes and a love of iss on the n64 back in the day.I also enjoy your bloggs and writing style.
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curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
No problem, mate and thanks for the positive feedback on my output. Appreciated.
Yep, it would appear we are of the same generation which is basically why I highly rate this latest PES as it echoes past glories in many respects. Of course, it is far from perfect and where previous versions in past generations also had a technical prowess to go along with the gameplay this generation has seen them come up short in that discipline and it has to and will be a focus moving forward.
I am happy that folk seem to be getting the game they want for the most part - if not in the most ideal of circumstances - and being a glass is half full sorta guy with PES, I take the developments of the last few days as a means to establish what people want from this game and future editions. Who knows, maybe this discovery of yours has focused feedback from fans further and the result will be a more balanced patch for this game in future. One which will unify all.
No problem, Lami.
I do think it was important that I made it clear that if WENB have the facility to feedback directly, we don't do so with only our own take. I value all communities and there is a nice diversity to be had having a wee lurk around and it would be foolish of me not to utilise it.
Anyone tried the 'blimp' camera angle?
I just played a couple of games and have to say its really good. You can really spread the ball about and get some good moves going. Was playing as Tottenham against Villareal in champions league, and scored a lovely team goal finishing with Lennon taking on the full back and cutting the ball back to Pava to smash in. It just looked really good on the 'blimp' view.
It also helps you to keep check of where your defenders are too.
The only thing is i like to have the names above the heads which can be a bit off putting because the players are so small.
Beginning to like this game again since deleting the patch, took me ages to work out what is best...
Install patch, play regular, play top player, unistall patch play regular, play top player, install patch again just to make sure
'to patch or not to patch? That is the question'
I just played a couple of games and have to say its really good. You can really spread the ball about and get some good moves going. Was playing as Tottenham against Villareal in champions league, and scored a lovely team goal finishing with Lennon taking on the full back and cutting the ball back to Pava to smash in. It just looked really good on the 'blimp' view.
It also helps you to keep check of where your defenders are too.
The only thing is i like to have the names above the heads which can be a bit off putting because the players are so small.
Beginning to like this game again since deleting the patch, took me ages to work out what is best...
Install patch, play regular, play top player, unistall patch play regular, play top player, install patch again just to make sure
'to patch or not to patch? That is the question'
ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
Just had a brilliant one nil away from home v Wigan, top player, pre patch, minus one game speed, pitchside camera. Oh my God, just brilliant. A while back I wrote an article saying how good Pro Evo was on the playstation. Then for some reason I went right off the PS3 game and seriously started hating it. It was at this time that I dropped my personal rating from a nine to around a 7 out of ten. I switched then to PC and thought that that was the bees knees, until recently where again I started disliking it. All this now becomes crystal clear why, and it's all patch related.
The PS3 version is now back and I'm playing it like mad again. Honestly, I was this close to jacking the game in and trading it, the game just turned horrid. I remember thinking at the time how could I be so stupid, how could I write a huge article one minute about how great the PS3 version was (bear in mind I had the US version before most played it) and then say it was frustrating and almost unplayable the next. At least I know now the reason and I don't feel so embarrassed by singing the PS3 praises. I'm back loving it after not touching it for almost a week.
The PS3 version is now back and I'm playing it like mad again. Honestly, I was this close to jacking the game in and trading it, the game just turned horrid. I remember thinking at the time how could I be so stupid, how could I write a huge article one minute about how great the PS3 version was (bear in mind I had the US version before most played it) and then say it was frustrating and almost unplayable the next. At least I know now the reason and I don't feel so embarrassed by singing the PS3 praises. I'm back loving it after not touching it for almost a week.
tc811
Resident Evo-Web Retard
so it's the european version of 2011 for PS3 that has this gameplay? I'm going to avoid the US version like the plague now.
Anyone tried the 'blimp' camera angle?
I just played a couple of games and have to say its really good. You can really spread the ball about and get some good moves going. Was playing as Tottenham against Villareal in champions league, and scored a lovely team goal finishing with Lennon taking on the full back and cutting the ball back to Pava to smash in. It just looked really good on the 'blimp' view.
It also helps you to keep check of where your defenders are too.
The only thing is i like to have the names above the heads which can be a bit off putting because the players are so small.
Beginning to like this game again since deleting the patch, took me ages to work out what is best...
Install patch, play regular, play top player, unistall patch play regular, play top player, install patch again just to make sure
'to patch or not to patch? That is the question'
Yeah i use blimp cam exclusively. Before the game came out i kept thinking it was a really stupid camera but in actuality it's great. I don't play with the radar so it helps a lot when looking to switch the ball to the other wing and as you said it helps a lot with understanding your defence's positioning.
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
I agree with your ratings, Im guessing the game WENB reviewed was pre patch as not a chance in hell the after patch would of seen such a score.
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Daytripper
League 2
- 23 June 2008
- Everton
sorry to be a pain but does anyone know how to remove the patch from the 360 version and can i sign into xbox live and just cancel the patch option?
Daytripper
League 2
- 23 June 2008
- Everton
brilliant thanks mate
Expander
Banned
- 4 May 2010
Keep up the good work,all the stuff youve written has been utterly fantastic and echoes all my setiments.Your also techboy12, and i tip my hat to you to.Well structured and brilliantly written breakdown of the differences between pre and post patch.
I hope you dont mind me sharing your post on evo-web,but your a real credit to the community and WENB.If your a exceptional gamer you need to become a tester as programmers are crying out for testers that can communicate this well and this clearly.
The main difference between the two versions for me is ironically about the defence not the attack. Post patch the game is somehow programmed that both you and the CPU have only ONE WAY to defend and that is retreat, retreat, retreat. You can set pressure to 20 and a defensive line as high as you like on post patch, the only way that you as a player can successfully stop the CPU is to drop back and back, you pressure (not using any pressure buttons just with the player movement) and the CPU will laser through your midfield with James Bond accuracy, so there is NO WAY you can press in post patch. There is no way you can tackle high up the pitch and the end result is that eventually, by hook or by crook the CPU gets filtered into your 18 yard line where you rely on jockey hold. You simply HAVE to defend this way on the top modes or you'll get diced. The CPU opts for a similar tactic and in almost every case parks the bus so that the only feasible way to score is either through crosses or long shots (about 80% plus of my goals now post patch are long rangers, simply because the CPU defence line is so deep).
Now let's have a look at pre patch. More active AI in attack, but also more intelligent defensive AI to counter it, the game is smoother (you may say unrealistically) but ironically I can TACKLE MORE in this game and it seems that only predominantly the best players can just ghost past you, unlike in post patch where almost everyone can ghost past you. Also in pre-patch you can actually use a pressing game and can successfully push further up the pitch to defend occasionally even getting the ball from the CPU, the CPU tend to make more errors under good pressure too instead of just skipping past you at every opportunity. Now this is where many will feel the game is more arcade/faster whatever, because the CPU defensive line is higher there is more action in the middle of the pitch. The game seems slower post patch because you can literally not have any pressure until you get into their half or even their third of the pitch.
Pre patch I am finding the game better because you can actually craft some goals outside of the work the ball work the ball shoot from long range method.
So in a nutshell, my findings
1) Post patch - the illusion of goalies being fixed as all shots go central, deep defensive lines resulting in the same game over and over, every player can glide past you, you cannot play a pressing game you have to defend one way and one way only and that is to retreat to your eighteen yard box. It may seem more sim like cos every fker is crammed into one penalty box!!
2) Pre patch - much more central action as the CPU defensive line is somewhere near resembling an actual real life defensive line this giving an incentive to be creative and get through the line, your players more responsive bringing the dribbling game into play, shots go where you want them, shots have more venom, CPU less cyborg like in that they actually give the ball way if pressured, you can play a pressing game higher up the pitch or defend deep, as when you press not every one of the CPU players skips past you like Messi. The game seems faster because there's move movement from everybody.
HOWEVER - on the last point I feel it is misleading, post patch I had MORE trouble with players leaving their posts even though there was less movement!?! Pre patch players seem to cover more and slot in nicely and am less open to be countered.
All credit for the above goes to techboy12 or on evo-web ccshopland.Genius!!!
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curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
The more I perform these keeper tweaks, the more convinced I am that even if Konami had super tech for them their understanding of of what the current stats model has on their performance would see them still not be too great.
I can appreciate that it might appear ridiculous to give Casillas 90 for ball control and 85 for explosiveness say, to go along with passing stats in the 70's and making him pretty damn quick, but goalkeepers are football players too. Given the way the stats model works in the game, in which they only have one dedicated stat for their art, it needs to be made up for in other ways and blessing them with stats that make them a very well equipped all round players appears to be a must. It isn't that problematic giving a keeper great ball control, while being able to pick a pass as they are only ever going to be keepers, so any disciplines that they excel in and yet seem more appropriate for an outfield player is only going to make them a better player and thus a better keeper.
Happy with how these tweaks are working thus far. Will perhaps post up a couple of teams to download with upped keeper stats for folks to give a whirl.
I can appreciate that it might appear ridiculous to give Casillas 90 for ball control and 85 for explosiveness say, to go along with passing stats in the 70's and making him pretty damn quick, but goalkeepers are football players too. Given the way the stats model works in the game, in which they only have one dedicated stat for their art, it needs to be made up for in other ways and blessing them with stats that make them a very well equipped all round players appears to be a must. It isn't that problematic giving a keeper great ball control, while being able to pick a pass as they are only ever going to be keepers, so any disciplines that they excel in and yet seem more appropriate for an outfield player is only going to make them a better player and thus a better keeper.
Happy with how these tweaks are working thus far. Will perhaps post up a couple of teams to download with upped keeper stats for folks to give a whirl.
Expander
Banned
- 4 May 2010
I would like to try out your results curdstar,i think your on to something and may well have a solution to konamis problem.Keep me posted.
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On a slightly different note, PES now has taken the back seat for me. Batman AC is here and it's my no.1 choice atm
I can't blame you, game is great
ccshopland
Premier League
- 4 January 2011
Can you keep us constantly informed of your keeper findings Alan please, I'm sticking with pre-patch but have EVERYTHING in place re- kits, etc etc, the only missing piece of the jigsaw for me personally is to ratchet up the goalies. Could you constantly outline what you suggest to change universally with the keepers with regards to specific stats to make them more robust?
Many thanks.
- Thread starter
- #11,816
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
Great call on the Keeper stats by the way Alan, nice find.
Ok, so last night I managed to apply Goalgerd's Option File, and what a superb file that is by the way. After I was done, I was desperate to get Online with the Zero Assistance lads, but before that, I thought I'd give this whole 1.01 Patch removal a little test.
The first game, with the patch, I played as Boro against Millwall on Professional. The game ended 2-1 to Millwall. It was quite a drab affair to be honest, a little tedious, with my players pretty static, and the CPU camping every man and his dog behind the ball. The pressure from the CPU was brutal at times, and well, it just wasnt massively enjoyable. Far from it.
I then removed the Patch and played again with the same teams and same settings. I only needed 5 minutes play to notice the huge difference between the two matches. The pre-patch game felt so open, so free and so much more enjoyable. I was finding the A.i making some fantastic runs off the ball, my players were no longer static. The dribbling also felt more free, more angles, and like someone mentioned, the ball didnt feel like it was on a tight piece of string attached to the players foot, like the Patched version.
The passing on Zero also felt crisper and more accurate, and even the shooting felt like it had even more zip and variation. I dont have a problem at all the the shooting on the Patched version, but somehow, this definitely felt better. I didnt notice a huge difference between the keepers, but overall, the experience was far more enjoyable. The game ended 2-1 to Boro in the second game, but it was so, so much better.
I didnt exactltly doubt peoples findings on here, but as always, I dont need to feel if for myself. And I most certainly did, the difference was huge.
So that's it settled. I'll play offline pre-patch, and when I want to go online, obviously download the patch for that. It's a shame really, I just think that Online between fair people would be even better again if the gameplay was pre-patch, but it is what it is. And I still had some amazing game against Zee and co. online, regardless.
Ok, so last night I managed to apply Goalgerd's Option File, and what a superb file that is by the way. After I was done, I was desperate to get Online with the Zero Assistance lads, but before that, I thought I'd give this whole 1.01 Patch removal a little test.
The first game, with the patch, I played as Boro against Millwall on Professional. The game ended 2-1 to Millwall. It was quite a drab affair to be honest, a little tedious, with my players pretty static, and the CPU camping every man and his dog behind the ball. The pressure from the CPU was brutal at times, and well, it just wasnt massively enjoyable. Far from it.
I then removed the Patch and played again with the same teams and same settings. I only needed 5 minutes play to notice the huge difference between the two matches. The pre-patch game felt so open, so free and so much more enjoyable. I was finding the A.i making some fantastic runs off the ball, my players were no longer static. The dribbling also felt more free, more angles, and like someone mentioned, the ball didnt feel like it was on a tight piece of string attached to the players foot, like the Patched version.
The passing on Zero also felt crisper and more accurate, and even the shooting felt like it had even more zip and variation. I dont have a problem at all the the shooting on the Patched version, but somehow, this definitely felt better. I didnt notice a huge difference between the keepers, but overall, the experience was far more enjoyable. The game ended 2-1 to Boro in the second game, but it was so, so much better.
I didnt exactltly doubt peoples findings on here, but as always, I dont need to feel if for myself. And I most certainly did, the difference was huge.
So that's it settled. I'll play offline pre-patch, and when I want to go online, obviously download the patch for that. It's a shame really, I just think that Online between fair people would be even better again if the gameplay was pre-patch, but it is what it is. And I still had some amazing game against Zee and co. online, regardless.
adamjensen
Non-League
- 20 October 2011
makes you wonder about all the people voting for full version over demo 2 in the poll, what are they smoking?
adamjensen
Non-League
- 20 October 2011
well if we could reach a consensus and lobby konami about it maybe it's not too late to get the game fixed to how it was pre-patch, but i guess catering for peoples' tastes is more important