PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Flaw3d Genuis said:
It's baffling, they had the best AI in any football game and with one quick patch they totally butcher to be pretty dam poor.

It's worrying for the future of PES imo as they dont seem know when they have a good game on their hands.
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It's not that baffling really. The difference in the AI (Defensive and Offensive), is mainly down to the patch itself. This was designed to improve the goalkeepers, which was justified. However, lots of people on this forum were worried it might alter the gameplay, which it definitely has.
As already mentioned it was too late to change the goalkeeper dynamics, but much easier to change gameplay mechanics and physics to accomodate the poor souls.
 
got the game today and enjoying it .playing offline only.
played 7 matches draw 2, won one and lost 4.
i'm playing on pro level.
my worse loss came at the hand of real madrid 6-1 and i was lyon.

animation is improved but still a few strange touches now and then(and some hurt my eye).
graphics are good but not great.
the gameplay is much better then 2011 and the 2 demos, creating chances takes time and work.
close control and moving the ball around is key.
with good timing you can beat any defender.
even when you create the chance you still have to nail the shot
AI is really good they are making some plays that make my jaw drop.
in a nutshell, its looking good this year.
the game i won was playing with penarol against colo-colo 3-0
 
Looks like i'm gonna have to get in this 1.00 patch bandwagon. Are the differences really obvious or subtle? Tbh i didn't really notice that much change in offensive teammate AI, between the full game and demo 2. If i go back though i probably will, after half a season on ML and thirty games online on the full game. It's only been out a week as well:P
I think we need a universal patch, with the content being as follows: Good Goalkeepers, excellent AI as promised, a balance between the two and a bit more open gameplay.
Please do it for us konami. We know you can, but do we trust you anymore, after all these promises and lies that you keep dishing out?
 
What a complete atrocity that people figured out that 1.00 has 'better' gameplay than 1.01. Konami is gonna get bombed hard for this.
In all honesty i never really noticed the GK's in 1.01 being all that better compared to 1.00, but the all out defence, packing in the box style has somewhat caught my attention.
I'm shocked
 
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makky said:
Looks like i'm gonna have to get in this 1.00 patch bandwagon. Are the differences really obvious or subtle? Tbh i didn't really notice that much change in offensive teammate AI, between the full game and demo 2. If i go back though i probably will, after half a season on ML and thirty games online on the full game. It's only been out a week as well:P
I think we need a universal patch, with the content being as follows: Good Goalkeepers, excellent AI as promised, a balance between the two and a bit more open gameplay.
Please do it for us konami. We know you can, but do we trust you anymore, after all these promises and lies that you keep dishing out?
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Like someone said earlier, the CPU defence makes it somewhat limited for the player runs to make sense or have freedom.
They still make plenty of runs in 1.01, people not seeing them is just because they can't do anything with the runs. The defence is just a lot more scripted to pack in the box and pressure (stumble animation back?).
All done to somewhat balance out shots the goalie has to 'save'. He's not even that much better imo in the 1.01 i don't even have to play 1.00 to know the difference.
 
After one game since "roll-back" I experienced things I hadn't in 30+ games with the patch installed.

The CPU didn't win every header.
The CPU made fouls and were actually booked.
My forwards were active in the game and actually had shots (previously virtually every goal I scored was a Gerrard 25 yarder).
The CPU made rash clearances under pressure.

Lovely, however:

Gk didn't stray from his line at all, meaning unnecessary panic from straight forward crosses.
And
The referee has reverted to not booking a player after an advantage.

Overall, more positives than negatives.

Thanks to whoever first suggested this and for the community for trying it and reporting back.

Long live Evo-web !!!
 
I've never seen the referee book someone after advantage. Not once, and i've made quite the unpopular fouls as did the CPU.
 
amier said:
Like someone said earlier, the CPU defence makes it somewhat limited for the player runs to make sense or have freedom.
They still make plenty of runs in 1.01, people not seeing them is just because they can't do anything with the runs. The defence is just a lot more scripted to pack in the box and pressure (stumble animation back?).
All done to somewhat balance out shots the goalie has to 'save'. He's not even that much better imo in the 1.01 i don't even have to play 1.00 to know the difference.
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++1.
 
I'm doing some tinkering with keeper stats in pre-patch and think I might be on to something...

PES' stats system is as we all know pretty pronounced but it requires a player to have the right blend for them to be the player they are and excel in their position. The problem with default stats assignment to the keepers in PES is that this blend is missing. If a player is any good in PES he has to be fairly decent in most disciplines, with the superstars being blessed with key stats that push beyond the 95 mark for them to really stand out. Keepers stats out with the keys stats for the role have them as pretty rubbish football players in general. That isn't a good mix for them in this game. They need to better players in other disciplines even if it doesn't appear that they need to be.

So, with this in mind I edited a few 'keeps and instead of just ramping up key keeper stats alone, I made sure that they were decent, not stupidly good but just decent at things like heading, ball control, dribble speed and even boosted their attack stat up to 50. also, I increased their defensive awareness rating to 3 bars. The way I see it is that they are always only going to be keepers so them being good at other things is only going to be in the position of goalkeeper. I guess what I am saying is that if you offer the keepers the tools required to be good football players who happen to be blessed with excellent keeper abilities, it sees them improve in that position all round. It is after that do the key stats for a goal keeper being better make them even better.

I find the key keeper stats, the ones that you shouldn't be scared to push past 90 or even 95 to be as follows:

Goalkeeping Skills (obviously)
Response
Defence
Jump
Body Balance
Stamina
Tenacity
Defence Awareness set to 3

Oh, and you are best setting weak foot accuracy up to 5 and it's use to 6 for them and ramp up condition to 7 minimum.

I would increase ball control as well as my thinking is increased ball control to go along with good keeping stats will show better agility, awareness and positioning. Explosiveness as well could be worth increasing fairly liberally as well.
 
curdstar said:
I'm doing some tinkering with keeper stats in pre-patch and think I might be on to something...

PES' stats system is as we all know pretty pronounced but it requires a player to have the right blend for them to be the player they are and excel in their position. The problem with default stats assignment to the keepers in PES is that this blend is missing. If a player is any good in PES he has to be fairly decent in most disciplines, with the superstars being blessed with key stats that push beyond the 95 mark for them to really stand out. Keepers stats out with the keys stats for the role have them as pretty rubbish football players in general. That isn't a good mix for them in this game. They need to better players in other disciplines even if it doesn't appear that they need to be.

So, with this in mind I edited a few 'keeps and instead of just ramping up key keeper stats alone, I made sure that they were decent, not stupidly good but just decent at things like heading, ball control, dribble speed and even boosted their attack stat up to 50. also, I increased their defensive awareness rating to 3 bars. The way I see it is that they are always only going to be keepers so them being good at other things is only going to be in the position of goalkeeper. I guess what I am saying is that if you offer the keepers the tools required to be good football players who happen to be blessed with excellent keeper abilities, it sees them improve in that position all round. It is after that do the key stats for a goal keeper being better make them even better.

I find the key keeper stats, the ones that you shouldn't be scared to push past 90 or even 95 to be as follows:

Goalkeeping Skills (obviously)
Response
Defence
Jump
Body Balance
Stamina
Tenacity
Defence Awareness set to 3

Oh, and you are best setting weak foot accuracy up to 5 and it's use to 6 for them and ramp up condition to 7 minimum.

I would increase ball control as well as my thinking is increased ball control to go along with good keeping stats will show better agility, awareness and positioning. Explosiveness as well could be worth increasing fairly liberally as well.
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In Pes6 if goalies have over 90 in Body Balance they parry better for some reason, maybe still the case. Resulting in less easy rebounds
 
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Played a few more games version 1.0 and on Professional, though the games played vastly superior, it was too easy. With a bit more practice I can dribble with the right players a bit too much, and the keepers, well, one game I was 3-0 up at half time with their keeper not even attempting to save weak shots into the middle of the goal.

I increased it to Top Player and though it initially felt like the game on Pro after the patch, there are still differences. It's great actually. Players feel more individual. Only top dribblers seem capable of beating their man and twisting and turning between defenders etc, and the success rate is drastically reduced as you'd expect. However, the stumble animation still seems to be almost eradicated on version 1.0, headers etc are still fairly evenly contested, and though the AI is still a bit too direct, Top Player is really tough but seems to be fairly open to some creativity.

It does leave me wondering though if the patch, version 1.1, plays like the unpatched game on Regular difficulty? Maybe it just ratcheted the difficulty up after the patch? What I mean to say is maybe the game on version 1.0 Pro level is the same as version 1.1 on Regular?
 
I just had something odd happen....Enjoyed my first game with the patch lol

Ok thought i'd do a little experiment, setup a game without patch with Marseilles v Feyernoord and it was fantastic end to end with plenty of chances and i ended up winning 1 nil with a goal in injury time.

Recreated it with patch exact same conditions, again the game was fantastic and i scored two amazing goals in the opening 13 minutes FT it ended up 2-1

Could it be the Data pack that breaks the game? Going to download it now and play the exact same conditions............
 
Just played it again with the data pack installed and it ended 0-0 with very few chances and it felt very poor, players seem to have a worse first touch, They seem alot more weak when getting shoulder charged, they get the ball stuck in their feet, their passing seems to go astray far more and shooting feels less acurate and less powerful!

Going to play again to make sure it's not placebo!
 
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I'd love to have the euro version to play with some dudes heres.

Unfortunetly we are living under a kind a casual dictatorship, and i'm not just talking about the way the game is pre-set to play, it's also people mentality as well, how poor they play in order to win (holding down second pressure to death and making the game looks stupid, using cheap tatics and even cheating good modes like mlo to get a super team).

Gameplay online could be promising with the new ai, but konami feel the needto please casuals only as always. That ultra fast gameplay and ultra assisted passing all together all so horrible that it is actualy funny to watch. Of course i didn't win once, it is a completely another mentality and taste, a world of difference compared to the beauty i play offline with the realistic and more hardcore settings.

I'm all for offline this year.
 
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*sigh* I have absolutely no confidence that Konami will rectify this issue. How can a game become worse after each successive iteration? It boggles my mind.

Is anyone actually looking forward to the patch in November? I know I ain't.
 
Zero to hero in just two days.....do i get my name in the next print of the pes2012 manual.

Seriously though i expected to get slated when i first came on here today,instead,everyones raving on about my little discovery.

As long as people are enjoying it and not trading this opus game in im happy.What a cock-up by konami though,they need to make a statement on this before there sales fall through the roof and honest fans turn over to the darkside.To make such a great game and then screw it up with one patch just to make the keepers better beggers believe,did they think we wouldnt notice.Solace for myself and others that were so sure the game wasnt right compared to demo2 ie flaw3d Genius,prispink and many more,we got there in the end boys and if you ever want jobs as testers you can join my firm.

Be afraid of the big bad patch!!!!!!!
 
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Expander said:
Zero to hero in just two days.....do i get my name in the next print of the pes2012 manual.

Seriously though i expected to get slated when i first came on here today,instead,everyones raving on about my little discovery.

As long as people are enjoying it and not trading this opus game in im happy.What a cock-up by konami though,they need to make a statement on this before there sales fall through the roof and honest fans turn over to the darkside.To make such a great game and then screw it up with one patch just to make the keepers better beggers believe,did they think we wouldnt notice.Solace for myself and others that were so sure the game wasnt right compared to demo2 ie flaw3d Genius,prispink and many more,we got there in the end boys and if you ever want jobs as testers you can join my firm.

Be afraid of the big bad patch!!!!!!!
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I said something similar to the line of Konami should make a statement about the situation, and it was moved to the disappointment thread...

I'm trying as hard as I can to figure out the game and what is intended way of playing it, but it's obvious based on everyone's comment thus far that too much is left in the dark for the players this time.
 
Expander said:
Zero to hero in just two days.....do i get my name in the next print of the pes2012 manual.

Seriously though i expected to get slated when i first came on here today,instead,everyones raving on about my little discovery.

As long as people are enjoying it and not trading this opus game in im happy.What a cock-up by konami though,they need to make a statement on this before there sales fall through the roof and honest fans turn over to the darkside.To make such a great game and then screw it up with one patch just to make the keepers better beggers believe,did they think we wouldnt notice.Solace for myself and others that were so sure the game wasnt right compared to demo2 ie flaw3d Genius,prispink and many more,we got there in the end boys and if you ever want jobs as testers you can join my firm.

Be afraid of the big bad patch!!!!!!!
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It's going to be interesting to see what the next patch brings lol Can Konami pull it out of the bag???
 
Well people should be hammering Jon Murphy about it on twitter to make sure they do patch it ...just in case.

Anyway, this "Delete the patch theory" is not a revolution - how many posts were there in PES 2011 about how much better the game played pre-patch? A lot from memory lol
 
That's the problem these days, not with just pes, the way game industry is, they rush every game out with faults in them and just patch them as i think every game i've bought to date first day release, always have had to download a patch. that's the difference nowadays, u couldn't download updates for your game so developers made sure everything was ironed out and working order, bug free.

how times have changed for the worse
 
Northzzz said:
Sometimes i have to stand back and question whether charging £30-40 for an unfinished game is morally wrong. By that i mean Konami know that the game they released wasn't finished, hence the rushed patch to make keepers better and in doing so making gameplay worse to accommodate for it. Am i supposed to sympathise with the development team for having such a small schedule to make the game in. I know i wouldn't do so with any other kind of game. I don't think the game is awful by any means but even the developers seem to understand the faults in their game and are quick to try to balance it to make those faults less evident. Quite frankly it's not on from my point of view. We're essentially supposed to pay for a product that the developers know isn't finished. I'm partially glad that Konami have received such low sales this year. I don't think they deserve those low sales (in truth they're probably nothing to do with the gameplay itself) but if it pushes them to look to release the game when it's finally truly finished then i'm all for it.
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They need to take a leaf out of nintendos book,that company never patches.Its a old school mentality based on the days of the catridge medium,when games had to be perfect before release because if they werent it was to late and the fallout would be to explosive.

Im a great believer in letting the real hardcore or a select few having test rigs rather then journalists and certain figure heads of fansites,because the water becomes muddied and snap decisions are made at the last minute based on listening to the wrong people that only have there own interests,not that of the community as a whole.

Konami should have more confidence in there own product and if they cant find a solid solution to a problem like goalkeepers before release,dont go in through the back door looking for a easy solution to a hard-coded problem.You cant patch a finished game without having knock on effects in other areas,bugs and glitches are one thing but core issues are impossible to rectify via patches that are built into the fabric of the code.

What saddens me is that pes2012 is landmark in-terms of its AI and how deeply it represents the facets of real football,but how many people are really going to see all that good work when patch 1.01 totally changes the landscape of the gameplay and ai and have probably got frustrated and traded the game in already,i know i nearly did as it just felt so broken compared to demo2.Im just glad i never gave up on it and out of the box i get the game i loved in demo2.

Imo konami had enough time this year to get it perfect but there was to much hysteria about the shooting which ties in heavily to the goalkeepers,they should of had more believe in what they had done rather then listening to people that just wanted the ps2 shooting back.This is half the problem,people still wanting something thats gone and not embracing something new.Just release ps2 pes in hd on the live and psn konami,then the ones like me that want something more representive of modern football dont have the game we want ruined by overly nostalgic fans that just want to re-tread old ground.
 
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Just played fc porto and i was manchester city, they had 21 shots and 10 on target where i only managed 8 shots 2 on target, they really did pressure me and gave me no time on the ball, makes sense as it was my away game in champions league, they played some cracking stuff and really aggresive attacking
 
Not only is the problem that developers have the safety net of being able to fix something with a patch, back in the day, there were a lot less modes to worry about. Online modes/aspects takes away time from offline game development. Look at EA sports - they keep trying to make sure there are so many different game options that they forget to make the fundamental game solid.
 
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