PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Jimmy G-Force said:
I've just had to skip read nearly two-pages of what I regard as pure dross. I honestly have no idea why people are complaining of floaty shots, this and that. Jeez, I must have the wrong game. :CONFUSE:

Myself and Rom played this into the early hours last night, and I've never had so much realism in all my life playing PES. Oh, and as for the shooting, well, just ask Rom, and I'll vouch for him.

GoalGerd, any news bud ?
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should be ready for after the champions league:BOP:
 
zeemeister said:
Absolutely, unequivocaly, definitely NOT

I am seriously starting to think there are 2 versions of PES2012 out there
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Really? I'd say it affects the CPU too. Are you telling me that if you play Man Utd v Real Madrid your games don't end up as higher scoring affairs than if you played Benfica v Shakhtar Donetsk.

That's a little vague of me. So for clarification. All i mean is that it's obvious that attacking ability increases (for both the cpu and the user) based on the better team but in no way, or atleast i'm finding it to be this way, does it suddenly mean your team become better at defending. Logically speaking having better defenders should dictate that it's harder to attack because your up against a decent defence, i don't find that it is and seemingly the CPU doesn't seem to either (though they haven't informed me personally).

I'd love to see a run down of the results and teams from your recent matches to see if they are similar to mine. I don't mean that in a patronising way at all but i'd like to compare to the kind of results i'm seeing. I'd like others to do the same if they read this post. I play -2 game speed, 15 minute matches, zero pass assistance.
 
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dannyfc2 said:
I can't say I noticed much passing individuality on 0 (contrary to my initial impression). Maybe once you're more used it perhaps, but I was missplacing the same really easy passes with the likes of Stein as I was with Xavi. I've gone up to 2 and it's definitely more prominent, even on this setting passing is a lot more free than PES 2011.

I'm growing more to it now. WENB have produced a useful 'starter' guide about settings and basic maneuvers. For instance the default screen setting on the consoles blows up the resolution beyond the monitor size, so if you scale it back you get sharper graphics.

Still can't get over the AI's immediate strategy of packing the box game after game. Just had enough of dominating possession for it to break down time after time, then getting hit straight on the counter. If that can be modded I might get the game on PC instead.... Chimps?



I will say that I'm actually loving the defensive side of the game. It's the first PES where I've really had to think about what I'm doing. I turned off all the CPU assists and it's really heart in mouth stuff getting ahead the crosses. You get some really nice last ditch moments, and more often than not lumping the ball away as a standard response. Makes players like Leibermann useful just because of his stature, beast in the air.
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The guide needed done and I was happy to collate folks hints and tips into one place for all. Nothing is full proof but I do feel much of it works for me. The default resolution thing is just bloody odd; no idea why they have it so blown up. Hopefully over time more can be added that is more full proof and we can get another version out that is a little more complete.

In my opinion this is the first PES in years that really could have done with a piggy-back guide. The simple fact is there is a fine line between the joy of discovery and simply not being informed of some key basics like using R2 when passing.

As for the feedback Jon is taking to Japan I actually fired off an e-mail directly to him about a variety of issues knowing he was heading of there and no,expander, it wasn't sugar coated but it was articulated well. Things included were keepers diving range and weakness regards anything struck directly at them or very close to them. Shooting needing loosened up greatly or at the very least the mechanics clearly explained. A pegging back of super-cancel reliance as well along with many other things.
 
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The only problem with the pic is we have no way of knowing what happened before that. Were you on the wing about to cross an then run it back - so that's why men are in the box.

Or is this right from kick off, you ran forwards right to the edge of the box?
 
It really annoys me the CPU never bothers to take a touch if they receive a through ball when they're in the box. They simply always shoot first time and no i'm not talking about from crosses, i mean from through balls (lofted or otherwise). It's an odd phenomenon that only occurs in the box. They barely ever score because naturally first time shots are a bit weak.
 
tc811 said:
Any pass assistance level higher than 1 bar gets less realistic. It's fact.
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I wish people would stop spouting this shit.

Robbery said:
Some of you like to watch full games? I'm going to record all of my CL games with Benfica and load it up to youtube.

After winning the CL with Bayern (played on professional setting)really easy, i will try to do it again (again on professional settings) this time not with a first class team.

I've already played the first game against Real Madrid (other opponents will be Twente and Kiew) at Home. If you like to watch full games you may enjoy.

First Half

Second Half

More games to come.

Personally i like to watch other players playing against the AI, just to see how they handle things.
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Finally a decent post in the thread. Nice to see how others play the game.

I have had 6 attempts at the Champions League on Superstar with a variety of "top" teams in the game. Not got to the final yet. I'm not joking when I say it borders on impossible to defend when you play a big team from the 1/4 finals onwards. I'm loving it and hating it at the same time. Defending is absolutly atrocious this year. Well, it's been horrible since PES6 but this takes it to a new level.

There is no theory on winning the ball, just pure luck. Go to the ball and get raped or back off and the computer will make your player stick his leg out and you get raped anyway. That's half the problem right there. Not to mention the burst move is terribly overpowered and largely unrealistic. The whole idea of defence seems to be to just back off and intercept...really frustrating, especially coupled with the AI scripting. They get goals out of the most impossible situations.

Part of it is me needing to adapt to the game and get better, but I'd only be papering over the cracks. As someone said, you really have to play a game to succeed at times, because playing a game of football will see you lose. Disappointing.
 
Jamezinho said:
Pretty much my sentiments on the issue. Every game is just a tedious grind against an entrenched AI that never leaves any space to exploit. I don't think I've seen a team play a high line.

The defence-splitting pass and subsequent one-on-one with the keeper is something of a collectors item now. Instead I find myself playing the percentage game and knocking in long balls and crosses hoping to get lucky.
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The CPU defensive AI is hard to get past, for some reason my defenders like to leave strikers in the middle themselves for a simple run in on goal. Im sure i must have settings wrong somewhere.....anyone help?
 
I actually, am starting to really like this game. For me the positives FAR outweigh the negatives. Are they still using the marketing slogan 'engineered for freedom'. If not, they should be. Just had a few online matches in the 'bear pit' of lobby EN 01 as Pere so eloquently put it. The game speed is actually no different online to it's predecessor. Come out alive from that experience and also vastly enjoyed the games i played. The demos taught me how to defend, so i'm a better player for it.
2v2 offline is a brilliant experience, a real throwback to the good old days. Me and a few friends played it on Saturday night and we were grinning from ear to ear. One lad, who is known for his dribbling skills absolutely loved it as he could take on players once again, without the restrictions of pes 2011 i.e sluggishness, clunkiness and limited space. Pes is not a dying product, it is very much alive and kicking, albeit living in the shadow of that other game.
They have catered for the hardcore in my opinion, with the assistance and speed settings. While at the other end of the spectrum you have the casuals who are also catered for as well e.g full bar +2 speed etc.
I am somewhere in between, and i have played this game for years.
Can we also have a positivity thread as well please.
Also thanks to the few people on here who discouraged me to not buy the game - you know who you are. Cheers. This will last me all over the winter anyway. Konami and PES have definitely still got it, not even going to read negative posts anymore. The teammate AI is immense.
 
LTFC said:
Fourth, I'm not sure I can withstand the dire audio. Commentators are exactly the same, crowd chants sound awful, droning, looping sound bites, and the ball being kicked sounds like a gun going off. One of the demos got the 'ball being kicked' sound pretty much bang on perfect, then for some reason Konami increased the volume. When you watch a match on TV you can almost never even hear the ball being kicked, in PES it grates me every time a ball is kicked.

There is a great game somewhere under here, but it's as if certain aspects of the game are willing me to give up on it.
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I have a subwoofer under my desk. If i put my foot next to it (or on it, it's not particularly big) it rumbles every time the ball is kicked.
 
Glad people have stopped posting about floaty shots. I mucked about in free training again and EVERY shot went to the direction I placed it. Some went in, some went wide and some the keeper saved but it went where I aimed. And you can hit them high, hard, low, soft - all sorts.

Also tried a couple of lobs from near the edge of the penalty box and a couple of them resulted in slower paced curlers. Kind of like a FIFA style finesse shot but not as loopy or quick. Was nice ;)

And I agree with what I read - I think it was in the PES 12 WENB guide - about not all R2 shots mean it's a curler. One I hit last night was really whipped in with pace.

Forgot to try out the screen size adjustment that was mentioned. Are people sure it overscans on all TV's? I know on PES 2011 I tried shrinking it and there was no overscan at all. Think I might have tried it this year on either the demo or full game and not noticed any overscan either but I'll double check. I have a full HD sharp LCD TV.

My tv is nicely calibrated so the brightness is not an issue but I might try knocking down the greens a notch or two as it feels like there's a slight tint.
 
Absolutely love this game on -2 speed setting and 0 bar pass assistance v. Top Player. I just played what could be best described as the finest, ''bestest'', dull 0-0 draw ever in all my days playing football videogames. I was Scotland against the COM's Sweden.

Chances demand more craft and precision, individuality is far more pronounced (speedy players feel more threatening but also more manageable to defend against), defending feels better realised and rewarding and the keepers appear to perform more consistently due to a finer balance between ball/player movement speed in relation to their abilities meaning 'keeps read the game and ball flight that little bit better. Still issues but not as prevalent. You can still crack vicious efforts on target that aren't guaranteed goals.

Basically, the more I play the game with these settings the more convinced I am that speed settings are more than just that. -2 is essentially ''simulation mode'' and it strikes me that Konami have looked to realise it by using workable solutions within the confines of what they have regards technical assets. It isn't the perfect way to engineer simulation play but by god it works in spite of some (tweakable) quirks.

A little defensive tip (defending is far better on -2 as well, as is COM build up play) that is a little less cultured is to home in with X + contain and secondary press then switch away to another player and mark passing angles. I am certain that eventually the fine art of the defensive game will materialise over time but right now these techniques work and don't make me feel disconnected from the action in quite the way I would have feared based on prior experience with (unwanted and hardcoded) AI assistance in previous games.

It's superb stuff that just needs a little fine tuning in some areas to take the game on to another level completely. I think as it stands, 0 and even -1 are balanced in a fashion that rewards accessible, attacking play at the expense of some defensive finesse. A cheeky wee patch to bring these speeds more in line with how -2 plays only with a more zippier feel; loosen up the shooting or at least clearly explain the mechanics, along with a full manual option regards passing and I am sure most would be satisfied or at least happier. Leave play that is optimised to offer instant gratification in the attacking game to the +1 and +2 speed settings Seabass and we are set. Oh, don't forget to scale the keepers accordingly with any tweaks as well.
 
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I think more people here should do this and I'm going to for my own benefit - watch some CPU v CPU games as a controlled experiment to check if the CPU attacks & defends differently when up against each other rather than humans and whether these aspects are impacted by how players are positioned when defending or how the attacking play is built up.

Perhaps we'll get some pointers to get a better gameplay experience or perhaps we can find some evidence to show Konami that some tweaks should be made.

I'm going to try it with 2 teams for a couple of games and then play the same fixture but controlling one of the teams. Might look for teams with differing strengths/default tactics. Not going to adjust anything yet.

Haven't played too much yet offline but when the CPU is down I know they come out and try to score - but does their formation and defensive line change or just the attacking play that becomes more potent?
 
For me, -2 speed is awesome. However, on my PC, the ball speed is a bit too slow. Ball moves better on -1, but players are a bit too fast. The perfect balance would be -1 ball speed, -2 player speed, on my PC at least.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Do you guys find the ball moves too slowly on -2? I only tried it a couple of times in the demo and can't really remember it.
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shank118 said:
For me, -2 speed is awesome. However, on my PC, the ball speed is a bit too slow. Ball moves better on -1, but players are a bit too fast. The perfect balance would be -1 ball speed, -2 player speed, on my PC at least.
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CalcioCalabrese said:
Would be nice if there were a couple of speed sliders so the balance of ball speed to player speed could be better.
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This is why I feel that a doable tweak that could be presented in a patch that applies the same balance found in gameplay in -2 would make more players happy. This would possibly help address these ball speed/response woes people find with -2, as -1 and 0 would offer zippier play if they just balanced these game speeds in the same way present in -2 setting. Klashman was right - they have essentially hidden the more simulation based gameplay under speed setting. These are the kinds of thing that need to be better signposted. I still enjoy the game on -1 and even 0 speed but -2 is where the game truly shines after further play.
 
DuduBR9, could you please take your moaning to the other thread? And posting in Portugese, you're really asking for a warning from the mods.
 
curdstar said:
This is why I feel that a doable tweak that could be presented in a patch that applies the same balance found in gameplay in -2 would make more players happy. This would possibly help address these ball speed/response woes people find with -2, as -1 and 0 would offer zippier play if they just balanced these game speeds in the same way present in -2 setting. Klashman was right - they have essentially hidden the more simulation based gameplay under speed setting. These are the kinds of thing that need to be better signposted. I still enjoy the game on -1 and even 0 speed but -2 is where the game truly shines after further play.
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Well I do remember reading somewhere that they were going for a partly arcade feel and I assume this is on the default speed of zero. So it might stand to good reason that the gameplay of any other speed might not be balanced in terms of how they've designed the game but might be better balanced in actual gameplay.

I do have a view though that football games could do away with the various speed and assistance settings (this goes for FIFA too) and maybe like a racing game does, have a standard option and then a full simulation option. And then work on balancing both modes well instead of having an option to adjust speed or assistance along 5 increments without necessarily knowing that everything will stay balanced.
 
shank118 said:
DuduBR9, could you please take your moaning to the other thread? And posting in Portugese, you're really asking for a warning from the mods.
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Sorry, but please, just give me a break! Everyoue has that angry moment of wanting to SRCREAM!!

I have no words in english to describe how horrible this game is in this final version, so i felt more confortable to express myself in my own language.:))
 
Please help me out : When I play ML, I'm not able to locate the coach mode in the middle of the match. Where is it?
 
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Do you mean the regular coach mode as in only watching the game in ML? If so, you pick that when you click on go to next match.

If you mean the new Club Boss mode, you'll need to unlock that from Extras.

Also wanted to remind everyone, please use the Unhappy thread (just easier to call it that way) for all your rants etc. Had to move about 30+ posts.

And please don't think you're not allowed to post your rants about this game here. It's just that it does get depressing after a while for people who are enjoying it. That's why, I've created a separate thread just for that; your rants/complaints etc. No trolling/disrespecting in there though. Same rules apply.

The 'Not happy with PES 2012' thread

EDIT: I've just added a poll to that thread. Please make use of it. Thanks.
 
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Lami said:
Do you mean the regular coach mode as in only watching the game in ML? If so, you pick that when you click on go to next match.

If you mean the new Club Boss mode, you'll need to unlock that from Extras.

Also wanted to remind everyone, please use the Unhappy thread (just easier to call it that way) for all your rants etc. Had to move about 30+ posts.

And please don't think you're not allowed to post your rants about this game here. It's just that it does get depressing after a while for people who are enjoying it. That's why, I've created a separate thread just for that; your rants/complaints etc. No trolling/disrespecting in there though. Same rules apply.

The 'Not happy with PES 2012' thread

EDIT: I've just added a poll to that thread. Please make use of it. Thanks.
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Thxs for that!!! :APPLAUD:

The more you play the more I like this game :))
 
See, I actually agree with a lot of the complaints about this game. The teammate AI does seem to have been dumbed down from the demos, and I think it's pretty obvious to all of us now that Konami have tried to "shield" the dodgy keepers by slightly nerfing the shots and massively increasing the AI shot blocking - that's OK in principle (shooting was too easy in the demo), but it's been overdone, I think. The pace of the game is all wrong: not just the game speed itself, but the balance between speed of the ball, speed of sprinting, speed of trapping, speed of closing down and speed of dribbling. No amount of tweaking to the overall speed settings will produce a realistic pace and flow, because of the huge disparity between those things. Lots of old PES 2011 crap that's sneaked back in for final code, too. Thanks. Pretty gutting to have these things removed at last, then promptly reinstated - what a tease.

BUT............ I reckon these things really only matter in single player, or (presumably) in MLO and general lobby matches. The last few nights I've been playing online against proper, grown-up players, with everyone using small-to-medium-sized teams and - crucially - zero pass assistance. It's a completely different game - I can still see plenty of small annoyances, but so far no major ones at all (which is incredible after PES2011, so often a nightmare online), and rather than being a sped-up "arcadey" disappointment, PES2012 is looking like the best and most brutally realistic football game I've ever played.

Online seems to play at something like -1 speed offline, for me - what makes it fast for others must be the ping-pong passing and the superstar teams. This is something else, a slow paced, tactical battle of wits where scoring more than 2 goals in a game means you've absolutely played your arse off. Suddenly, like real football, it's not just about what players are doing right, it's also about mistakes; not every pass comes off, moves often break down, and you find yourself feeding off errors, looking for weaknesses. It's the great thing about zero assistance, you can play incredible visionary passes way beyond anything possible on 1-bar assistance, let alone 5, but you also misplace as many passes as your team would in real life. (At least.) Anything other than a simple pass carries an element of risk, but you need a moment of real invention to create a scoring chance - and to win the game you have to balance those two factors. Occasionally you just get lucky, of course, but that's football.

So anyway, offline: good but horribly flawed. Online in the fully-assisted bear pit: Christ alone knows. Online on zero passing assistance, using sensibly-sized teams and attempting to play realistically: best PES ever, I'd say.
 
Lami said:
Do you mean the regular coach mode as in only watching the game in ML? If so, you pick that when you click on go to next match.

If you mean the new Club Boss mode, you'll need to unlock that from Extras.

Also wanted to remind everyone, please use the Unhappy thread (just easier to call it that way) for all your rants etc. Had to move about 30+ posts.

And please don't think you're not allowed to post your rants about this game here. It's just that it does get depressing after a while for people who are enjoying it. That's why, I've created a separate thread just for that; your rants/complaints etc. No trolling/disrespecting in there though. Same rules apply.

The 'Not happy with PES 2012' thread

EDIT: I've just added a poll to that thread. Please make use of it. Thanks.
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At last, thanks for creating such a thread.

Everytime I pop in to see what the word on the grapevine is I see a millions posts moaning and moaning and moaning. I understand that there are legitimate concerns and issues with the game, but some people only seem to see the negatives, seemingly going out of their way to trash PES 2012. I get it, you don't like the game, others do like it and can put up with its faults, as the end result is still worth it. Yes, believe it or not, there are actually positives to PES 2012.

The way people are going on, you'd think it was the worst game in the history of videogames at this rate :/
 
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