PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

jflores said:
I played FIFAa12 and although the graphics(as always) were fantastic, along with the animations, however the gameplay, though improved, is light years behind what it should be. Shooting is fine, but the sound of the ball reminds me of kicking a large beach ball. Also, heading is non-existent, and if if you do manage to time a header, it does it with no power at all. Players still seem sluggish on quick turns. And more importantly, players have no individual attributes as in PES.

Good Try EA.
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thats harsh the more you play the game more you relaise individuality of players is big. Just try playign with Neymar if you dont beleive me.

Anyway its not as good as indivulaity in like pes3 etc...but for fifa better than ever.

Is Pes 2012 any better? though fifa may only be decent if pes 2012 is not better then its the best unless you gonna play some dated old PES game instead?
 
Expander said:
Hold up curdstar,youre picking a fight with the wrong man and when did you become the leading voice of all things gaming.

Bit of history for you son,ive been a devoted konami fan since the early 90s and a vocal supporter of all things pes.I know the difference between fifa and pes so i dont need to be educated by you,nor do i need to be educated about the differences between western and asian gameplay values.My earlier post in relation to the state of japanese gaming did state that nintendo still are head and shoulders above western developers and there fixation with eye candy and FPS shooters,however the west is currently a generation ahead of the japanese interms of there knowledge and skill base.

I never said animation is the be all and end all but it helps, and considering konami themselves were leaders in this feild back in the early ninties with ISS on the n64,it boggles the mind how this area has taken such a backwards step.

As for your closing statement,its not fact its personel choice and your opinion,it doesnt make you right or the authority on this subject and this isnt WENB,you cant bully people like your mods and adam does on WENB,if people voice a opinion that differs from the WENB ideology.

Arrogant and speculative,pot calling the kettle black!

And yes WENBs credibilty and integrity has been exposed this year.

Have a read of this also is not every word of this true-

Pros:
- The offense behaviour of CPU teammates is improved compared to PES 2011. That means many more intelligent runs, and less such things as sudden stops during counterattacks.
- At the same time, the opponent defensive AI is improved, too. My 2011 standard goal, the low cross (3x tap long pass button) from near the corner flag is getting caught by defenders or the goalie much more often. Generally, your attacking player with the ball is covered better, and less space is given for you to exploit.
- I personally have not used it, but if the new feature of sending your teammates to a certain direction via the “R”-stick really works, this should give even more flexibility and freedom on the attack. And a big challenge in learning it, I suppose.
Trouble is, I will hardly bother with this new feature, because of the massive

Cons:
- Defense: On a regular basis, my CPU teammates are being run through by attackers, and I mean that literally. Same issue as with PES 2011 really.
- The ball can be as close as one or two inches to a defender’s foot and a foot or two away from the opponent’s: Guess who will get the ball? Unfortunately again, this is hardly an exaggeration. My CPU teammates can just not be bothered with the ball. They sometimes have even problems to pick it up when no opponent is around.
- Ball Physics: I have two issues with that: First, often the ball bounces off my players in a weird angle, and way too far and fast. Also, when I build the game slowly up from behind and pass the ball around between my defense players, the ball seems to be slowed down a lot. When I tap the short pass button only quickly, the ball will slowly, slooooowly, move and just about reach the 5 yard distance before it stops. It is then getting picked up by an opponent attacker, or, if I am lucky, one of my teammates just about gets there first, under extreme pressure from a CPU opponent’s striker, of course. The simplest of passes thus often become a real challenge. Main issue here is that it is not consistent: In other situations (mainly in the opponent’s half, I have the feeling), a quick tap can mean a quite fast pass to a player up to 30 yards away!
- Change of defender: A great new feature that you can choose the defender you get via the “R”-stick. In theory. In practice, most of the time you get the defender closest to the ball only with a lag of a second or two. But hey: Once the attacker in possesion passed your defence line, you can get the chosen one, and witness the goal from up close!

Well, CPU Opponents going THROUGH players and keeping posession, passes bouncing off players in awkward angles and ridiculously fast, slowed down passes (especially in your own half!?!), CPU teammates who cannot be bothered with the ball and well-positioned defenders I cannot choose:
The game has HUGE potential, the attacking play I find really good and much improved, but with these most basic screw-ups in the defense it is just another big letdown by Konami. What a pity!


One last thing curdstar,in this industry money talks and bullshit walks,gameplay doesnt mean shit nor does real innovation anymore or originality.The shits in suits run this business and its all about the marketing bull and keeping the money coming in.I know things about this industry that would make your eyes water and the internal politics of konami.Dont play clever with me son,your out of your league.
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That guy Curdstar dishing out 9's for PES reviews so he can get a thanks in the manual :APPLAUD::APPLAUD::APPLAUD:

:R1
 
Curdstar,is the ai of pes2012 really that amazing?,and is the gameplay that solid that it doesnt matter that defenders warp and midfielders your tracking back run away from the ball and danger when you then select a defender with your cursor change.

Does the ai really live up to the hype,or is it just coding trickery and marketing buzz words that sound great in theory but in practise doesnt quite deliver on the promise especially in defence.

Does the midfield play really mirror real football?,why do passes magnetically find players rather then players moving towards the ball and why does pes still feel so on rails and so automated especially in the areas of crossing and shooting.

If the gameplays as solid as you claim,why all the last minute adjustments to balance the game and compensate for the badly coded keepers especially in the defensive areas.

Come on curdstar,less of the flowery rhetoric that sounds cool and more of the coding talk.We all can talk a good game and word anything to sound wonderful,but bottom line its all in the finer detail and the code.
 
Expander said:
Hold up curdstar,youre picking a fight with the wrong man and when did you become the leading voice of all things gaming.

Bit of history for you son,ive been a devoted konami fan since the early 90s and a vocal supporter of all things pes.I know the difference between fifa and pes so i dont need to be educated by you,nor do i need to be educated about the differences between western and asian gameplay values.My earlier post in relation to the state of japanese gaming did state that nintendo still are head and shoulders above western developers and there fixation with eye candy and FPS shooters,however the west is currently a generation ahead of the japanese interms of there knowledge and skill base.

I never said animation is the be all and end all but it helps, and considering konami themselves were leaders in this feild back in the early ninties with ISS on the n64,it boggles the mind how this area has taken such a backwards step.

As for your closing statement,its not fact its personel choice and your opinion,it doesnt make you right or the authority on this subject and this isnt WENB,you cant bully people like your mods and adam does on WENB,if people voice a opinion that differs from the WENB ideology.

Arrogant and speculative,pot calling the kettle black!

And yes WENBs credibilty and integrity has been exposed this year.

Have a read of this also is not every word of this true-

Pros:
- The offense behaviour of CPU teammates is improved compared to PES 2011. That means many more intelligent runs, and less such things as sudden stops during counterattacks.
- At the same time, the opponent defensive AI is improved, too. My 2011 standard goal, the low cross (3x tap long pass button) from near the corner flag is getting caught by defenders or the goalie much more often. Generally, your attacking player with the ball is covered better, and less space is given for you to exploit.
- I personally have not used it, but if the new feature of sending your teammates to a certain direction via the “R”-stick really works, this should give even more flexibility and freedom on the attack. And a big challenge in learning it, I suppose.
Trouble is, I will hardly bother with this new feature, because of the massive

Cons:
- Defense: On a regular basis, my CPU teammates are being run through by attackers, and I mean that literally. Same issue as with PES 2011 really.
- The ball can be as close as one or two inches to a defender’s foot and a foot or two away from the opponent’s: Guess who will get the ball? Unfortunately again, this is hardly an exaggeration. My CPU teammates can just not be bothered with the ball. They sometimes have even problems to pick it up when no opponent is around.
- Ball Physics: I have two issues with that: First, often the ball bounces off my players in a weird angle, and way too far and fast. Also, when I build the game slowly up from behind and pass the ball around between my defense players, the ball seems to be slowed down a lot. When I tap the short pass button only quickly, the ball will slowly, slooooowly, move and just about reach the 5 yard distance before it stops. It is then getting picked up by an opponent attacker, or, if I am lucky, one of my teammates just about gets there first, under extreme pressure from a CPU opponent’s striker, of course. The simplest of passes thus often become a real challenge. Main issue here is that it is not consistent: In other situations (mainly in the opponent’s half, I have the feeling), a quick tap can mean a quite fast pass to a player up to 30 yards away!
- Change of defender: A great new feature that you can choose the defender you get via the “R”-stick. In theory. In practice, most of the time you get the defender closest to the ball only with a lag of a second or two. But hey: Once the attacker in possesion passed your defence line, you can get the chosen one, and witness the goal from up close!

Well, CPU Opponents going THROUGH players and keeping posession, passes bouncing off players in awkward angles and ridiculously fast, slowed down passes (especially in your own half!?!), CPU teammates who cannot be bothered with the ball and well-positioned defenders I cannot choose:
The game has HUGE potential, the attacking play I find really good and much improved, but with these most basic screw-ups in the defense it is just another big letdown by Konami. What a pity!


One last thing curdstar,in this industry money talks and bullshit walks,gameplay doesnt mean shit nor does real innovation anymore or originality.The shits in suits run this business and its all about the marketing bull and keeping the money coming in.I know things about this industry that would make your eyes water and the internal politics of konami.Dont play clever with me son,your out of your league.
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You certainly don't know more than me about Konami and the future of the franchise but please, continue to believe that you know better.

As for WENB being exposed, oh deary, deary me. Yet another conspiracy theorist in our midst.

Here is a simple fact - some people love it, whilst others hate it. There is no right or wrong as you rightfully said so why you think WENB's credibility has been exposed when many share our opinion is beyond me.

I am only too happy exchange views but I take exception to you insisting that in a few weeks everybody will agree with you as that is complete nonsense, hence why I think you are being arrogant. People might end up hating the game but for different reasons. They might end up loving it even more for different reasons also. Your opinion is only your own truth and not others; same goes for what I or anybody else has to say. Pointing out technical inconsistencies is all very well but nobody ever stated that this game was was a technical masterpiece or even particularly good regards animations and alike. Yes, there are AI quirks too but what game in any genre has perfect AI?

Nobody suggested the game is perfect or doesn't have some flaws so really, you are only getting upset and claiming folks credibility has been exposed because they don't share your view of things.
 
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curdstar said:
You certainly don't know more than me about Konami and the future of the franchise but please, continue to believe that you know better.

As for WENB being exposed, oh deary, deary me. Yet another conspiracy theorist in our midst.

Here is a simple fact - some people love it, whilst others hate it. There is no right or wrong as you rightfully said so why you think WENB's credibility has been exposed when many share our opinion is beyond me.

I am only too happy exchange views but I take exception to you insisting that in a few weeks everybody will agree with you as that is complete nonsense, hence why I think you are being arrogant. Your opinion is only your own truth and not others; same goes for what I or anybody else has to say.
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I deal in facts not fan service and i dont paper over the cracks like your review does ie not mentioning some serious flaws that are gamebreakers and cheat people out of hard work and well earnt goals,as well as there hard earned cash when the final product is different from two superior demos.

As my pros and cons list outlines,which is honest,fact and not opinion.These issues are there and seriously damage the final product.

What are you afriad of the truth,surely even your superior gaming knowledge and expertise would clearly see these shortcomings.

As for liking pes2012,i do,but that doesnt blind me to the truth or make me try to discredit a bit of honesty from a fan that is trying to highlight some serious core issues with pes2012 that need to be addressed and should of been over the course of the last year.

And stop this conspiracy theory ball,the whole community has witnessed the treatment of people on WENB when they openly critique pes on your forums.I site the treatment of ANDERSON as my case in point and how he was declared not a friend of wenb when he exercised his right to a opinion on the first demo.Dont let your rise from blogger to wenb staff go to your head,your not a game journalist nor do you work in this industry.

Like i said previously,i didnt expect you to come back at me with any talk of coding,instead its more flowery rhetoric and you trying to protect your already over inflated ego.Is this really curdstar or is it just adam under curdstars user name.
 
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Expander said:
I never said animation is the be all and end all but it helps, and considering konami themselves were leaders in this feild back in the early ninties with ISS on the n64,it boggles the mind how this area has taken such a backwards step.
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Mate, i don´t know if you know but ISS series was developed by Konami's division KCEO subsidiary of Osaka.
They should not be confused with those of the Pro Evolution Soccer series (also known as Winning Eleven), originally developed for PlayStation by KCET (Tokyo). There's were different developers there. So they can be put on the same bag.

The only thing that these two franchise shares is the Konami logo, nothing more.
 
Román said:
Mate, i don´t know if you know but ISS series was developed by Konami's division KCEO subsidiary of Osaka.
They should not be confused with those of the Pro Evolution Soccer series (also known as Winning Eleven), originally developed for PlayStation by KCET (Tokyo). There's were different developers there. So they can be put on the same bag.

The only thing that these two franchise shares is the Konami logo, nothing more.
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I know,but pes on the ps2 used the same graphic librarys as ISS on the 64.Resources can be shared and most of the majora staff now work on the WEPs team.
 
Expander said:
I know,but pes on the ps2 used the same graphic librarys as ISS on the 64.Resources can be shared and most of the majora staff now work on the WEPs team.
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Even if that were correct (which I doubt because the poly count on both platforms was different, as were the texture sizes), the engines were different because they were on two different platforms - Playstation development has always been a b**ch to port to, so it would not have shared that aspect from the N64.

As it would have been re-coded... run distances, animation cycle timing, all that stuff would have had to be re-done, thus the game felt different. Heck, even the animation parser/export (for use on the console) is usually different.
 
Ern Dog said:
I was wondering earlier that assuming PES is still around for the next gen of consoles, would it still be using the same engine. I would bet it would.
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I have nothing personal against the poster of this quote, it's only an example...but why not start a new thread for those post that add nothing to discussions...it's pure speculative...

I was wondering that assuming the USA still exist in 2243, would they still be eating hamburgers? I would bet they would.

I was wondering that assuming Apple still exist in 2133, would they still be making the same type of I-Phones? I would bet they would.

I was wondering assuming that Evo-web still exist in 2020, will people be moaning about PES2020 and saying that PES2012 was a much better game and that they long for a game like that? I would bet they would.

I'm sorry but this sort of talk is pointless.
I agree with the fact that Konami should know that something is wrong, that they should know that we think they should listen more to the fans. But if i would work with Konami, it's this kind of commentaries that would persuade me not to listen to the fans. There is nothing constructive in it. I think radiation had a very good idea. Start a new thread for the people who are only moaning and do not add much to the discussion (oh and i'm not necassary implying that this poster does not add anything, i just took an example of a useless post...i will have a certain therapeutic effect that he can vent his frustration...but it doesn't help the community and it certainy will not have effect on PES). I can understand that certain people have given up on Konami and PES, but i don't understand why they keep on visiting threads (and forums?) like these...If they really care about the game and want to influence Konami, they are not doing a very good job...

I'm sorry for this long post, but sometimes this is a depressing thread...i'm fed up with the constant moaning and with the posters who want Seabass and Murphy fired (or lynched)...this is all too simple and simplistic.


Yesterday i played a couple of Coppa Libertadores matches and i had chance after chance and missed most of them. There is something wrong with the shooting...that is the part of the game that IMO should be fixed first...but then suddenly Basualdo (Argentinos Juniors) scored a fantastic goal from 30 meters...it was a one off...but boy was i over the moon...
 
I played around in the training ground and shots were going in the right direction for me. And if the ball was slightly ahead of me I could generate plenty of power.

But what happened with your shooting that you didn't like? If it's a shooting mechanics problem, we should start collecting video's now for Konami so they can patch it, but if it's us players not understanding how to use the shooting system (whether that's a good thing or not) then maybe some video's will help each other with tips and how to correct the shots.
 
The shooting also feels a little assisted to me. It seems sometimes that you score when the CPU decides it's time. I've scored some beauties, but none have brought any sense of satisfaction.
 
goalgerd said:
YouTube - defender error.mp4

im sorry this was my 1st game tonight,top player 15mins on -1 speed. look that defending is straight out of pes 2011,i know its a shamrock rovers defender but the ball was there for me to intercept but the player just didnt react and let it go by for an easy goal,im starting to think this game is alot closer to pes 2011 with all these little nuances rearing their ugly heads
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Hopefully you won't see that when they have been edited.

I play on Top Player and using teams from the Premier League, La Liga and Seria A with edited players, I havent seen anything like that. In some games I cannot get a cross in from a throw in in the corners as the defenders are so good at closing down.
 
I tried a cheeky half before work this morning, with my long time favourite international team, Costa Rica. I also upped the pass assistance, seeing as the game plays differently compared to demo 2 (which i had on zero pass assistance). I think it helped a bit. Previously i was getting weird/annoying short passes to nobody eg i would fill half the power bar and the ball would travel only 4 yards. This morning's game was more enjoyable. :))
 
I've just had to skip read nearly two-pages of what I regard as pure dross. I honestly have no idea why people are complaining of floaty shots, this and that. Jeez, I must have the wrong game. :CONFUSE:

Myself and Rom played this into the early hours last night, and I've never had so much realism in all my life playing PES. Oh, and as for the shooting, well, just ask Rom, and I'll vouch for him.

GoalGerd, any news bud ?
 
If people are seeing floaty shots then they're not hitting the ball correctly. And yeah this thread has turned uber paranoid about the game, there's more trolling going on here than at a Lord of the Rings convention.
 
daveym said:
most people agree the shots are too floaty from what i've seen, it's more likely you dont understand the problem than everyone has a different game to you. ive improved it a whole lot with jenkey's gameplay tool which lets you modify overall shot speed, the downside of it is it effects other things like goal kicks
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floaty shots were in Pes 2011, now they are not floaty anymore but they still lack some power. The only powerful shots seem to be the volley shots
 
Ameppe said:
floaty shots were in Pes 2011, now they are not floaty anymore but they still lack some power. The only powerful shots seem to be the volley shots
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Simply not true. I'd actually argue, if anything, they can be too powerful. And I have many, many goals to prove that statement.

I genuinely have no idea what people are going on about here. Crazy.

Anybody care to play me, add me. I'll show just how hard, and low, and fast I can drive the ball.

LT, PM me your PSN I.D, I've got an invite for you. Trust me, PES doesnt get any better online than playing with this group of people on Zero Assistance.
 
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You can definitely hit some low, hard powerful shots, it's all about timing, the right choice of foot and the stance your player was in. Sure all this was talked about last year. There's some elements in this game that are simply tougher than before.
 
LTFC said:
If people are seeing floaty shots then they're not hitting the ball correctly. And yeah this thread has turned uber paranoid about the game, there's more trolling going on here than at a Lord of the Rings convention.
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:APPLAUD::APPLAUD::WORSHIP::WORSHIP:
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
LT, PM me your PSN I.D, I've got an invite for you. Trust me, PES doesnt get any better online than playing with this group of people on Zero Assistance.
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Jimmy are you really satisfied playing with zero pass assistance?
Don't you think it take to much individualism away from your players?

I'm really unsure about this one. Maybe 4 bars is the better way to go, if you like to see more difference in passing depending on the passing skills of every player in your team?
 
Robbery said:
Jimmy are you really satisfied playing with zero pass assistance?
Don't you think it take to much individualism away from your players?

I'm really unsure about this one. Maybe 4 bars is the better way to go, if you like to see more difference in passing depending on the passing skills of every player in your team?
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It's the best system I have ever played PES on. It requires you to understand every players passing technique and skills and strongly forces you to play your percentages. I love it. The individuality is at it's very highest as it requires not only the skill of knowing your players and what they are capable of, but also, combining that with manual skilled input.

I honestly cannot understand for the life of me why people are feeling the exact opposite. The reason I dont play with any sort of Assistance is because the individuality is completely lost. On Zero, it's all about the stats.

I've bought an Iranian AMF for my MLO, Zelak (sp) and he has an overall of 66, but has the Classic Number 10 Player Card and Passing Accuracy of 81. He is my Play-Maker on Zero Assistance. His passing is far superior to anyone else on my team, and he pulls all the strings. Getting him on the ball opens up so much, without him I'd be screwed. His 'under-the-hud' assistance is as clear as night and day. Infact, more so.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
It's the best system I have ever played PES on. It requires you to understand every players passing technique and skills and strongly forces you to play your percentages. I love it. The individuality is at it's very highest as it requires not only the skill of knowing your players and what they are capable of, but also, combining that with manual skilled input.

I honestly cannot understand for the life of me why people are feeling the exact opposite. The reason I dont play with any sort of Assistance is because the individuality is completely lost. On Zero, it's all about the stats.

I've bought an Iranian AMF for my MLO, Zelak (sp) and he has an overall of 66, but has the Classic Number 10 Player Card and Passing Accuracy of 81. He is my Play-Maker on Zero Assistance. His passing is far superior to anyone else on my team, and he pulls all the strings. Getting him on the ball opens up so much, without him I'd be screwed. His 'under-the-hud' assistance is as clear as night and day. Infact, more so.
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I guess i need to do some more testing then, to get the same feeling you have. Right now it feels strange on Zero and i don't see a lot of variation in passing. Maybe i should play with some weaker teams with only one or two good players with great passing skills to feel the difference more.

Maybe i just misunderstand the system at all by thinking that 4 bars is most affected by the player stats. And i don't see a lot of differences between 1 and 3, 2 and 3. So i need to make a decision between 0 or 4 to get the most fun out of this game.

Anyway, thank you for your opinion.
 
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