PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Expander said:
Personally as a football fanatic and hardcore gamer of more then thirty years who understands real footballing technique and doesnt accept cheap immitations,ea imo this year in fifa12 is head and shoulders above anything konami have churned out.And thats the ironic thing,the tables have turned and its now konami cloning what ea have been doing over the last four years.
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I so agree with that statement.

Expander said:
It might not be the perfect football simulation(fifa12)but its closer then pes currently is or has been and at least ea are trying to realistically re-produce what happens on a football pitch not mimick it with coding tricks from the 1990s.
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:LOL:
 
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ctruppi said:
The FIFA thing is not a myth.

[....]

I have a challenge for anyone coming to these boards who is contemplating playing FIFA 12 - list 5 ways that FIFA 12 is superior to PES 12 w/o using the following topics: licenses, graphics, animations or commentary.
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I should have specified next-gen FIFA, of course. Last-gen FIFA rarely used to even get a mention, and rightly so.

Your challenge is a mostly rhetorical one, because whatever anyone says, you'll just say that it's all wrong. But in the spirit of friendly debate, I'll have a go.

For example, I will say that FIFA12 is arguably much better---not just a bit better, much better---than PES2012 in these 5 categories: shooting mechanics, passing controls, defensive system, GOALKEEPERS, and general tactical & gameplay customisation (the sliders).

How do you like them apples? ;)
 
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Flaw3d Genuis said:
Surly the love for Fifa should be in the Fifa section?
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Tell you the truth, if Arkham City wasn't out this week, i'd probably have given fifa a little go myself, will probably have to wait a little longer to try it out unless I take back pro, dunno if that's a gamble that i can make though.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Surly the love for Fifa should be in the Fifa section?
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That's up to the mods, of course, but the context here is whether PES is harmed or helped by its fans' general belief that the 'other game' owes its next-gen success solely to licenses, graphics, kids, etc. etc.

I think PES is harmed by our ongoing assumption of a clear superiority that has in fact evaporated over recent years.

I'll still be playing PES2012 for the next few months at least. It's currently the more congenial footy game for me, for various reasons.
 
Keith Houchen said:
For example, I will say that FIFA12 is arguably much better---not just a bit better, much better---than PES2012 in these 5 categories: shooting mechanics, passing controls, defensive system, GOALKEEPERS, and general tactical & gameplay customisation (the sliders).
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I love PES but I have to say I agree with these sentiments.
 
Keith Houchen said:
I should have specified next-gen FIFA, of course. Last-gen FIFA rarely used to even get a mention, and rightly so.

Your challenge is a mostly rhetorical one, because whatever anyone says, you'll just say that it's all wrong. But in the spirit of friendly debate, I'll have a go.

categories: and general tactical & gameplay customisation (the sliders).

How do you like them apples? ;)
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General tactics? Are we talking about formations/overall team tactics and the like? If so i'd give it to pes last year they had something especially tweaking formations and tactics to make a team play a certain. This year they've taken certain things out which i'm baffled by.

As for sliders i'd prefer adding sliders to teams individually than across the whole spectrum of the game.

Can't wait to get an OF and stick to playing offline, online is just so frustrating there has been no thought or research into the online community and behaviour patterns.
 
While Fifa is more polished you never get that feeling that what just happened is exactly what happens in real life, Sure it moves realistically (animations, AI is awful) but that's about it.
 
@Daveym
The funny thing konami did implement seasless real time gameplay for throw ins, corners, free kicks in the demo but for some bizarre reason they took it out the final game. I guess if they hadn't waisted time putting in extra game modes(Who wants to be a billionaire club owner) and cut scenes. Just shows why pes has been such a mess overall, lack of direction.

Fifa is not perfect on the pitch but they are heading in the right direction.
 
Sabac Red said:
General tactics? Are we talking about formations/overall team tactics and the like?
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No, the new gameplay sliders, i.e. increase/decrease passing error, shot power, etc. etc. I included tactical side because some of the gameplay sliders overlap with the sliders we're already familiar with from PES & FIFA over the past few years. Most of FIFA12's gameplay sliders permit universal tweaks to actual game mechanics, allowing you to make and balance your own football game*. It's all similar to that NBA game everybody always mentions.

*I'm reporting on FIFA12's gameplay sliders here, not necessarily endorsing them. For me a great football game should ideally be balanced out of the box and play that way for months or years.*

*waits for the cries of "ah, see, you've undermined your own argument..." Oh, Internet! Oh life! Oh time!
 
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For example, I will say that FIFA12 is arguably much better---not just a bit better, much better---than PES2012 in these 5 categories: shooting mechanics, passing controls, defensive system, GOALKEEPERS, and general tactical & gameplay customisation (the sliders).
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AAGAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

images
 
Icelandic shops doing a great job delivering the game, or not actually. Still not here and they aren't exactly bending over backwards to rush it in. I hope to have some impressions by the end of the week.
 
Keith Houchen said:
I should have specified next-gen FIFA, of course. Last-gen FIFA rarely used to even get a mention, and rightly so.

Your challenge is a mostly rhetorical one, because whatever anyone says, you'll just say that it's all wrong. But in the spirit of friendly debate, I'll have a go.

For example, I will say that FIFA12 is arguably much better---not just a bit better, much better---than PES2012 in these 5 categories: shooting mechanics, passing controls, defensive system, GOALKEEPERS, and general tactical & gameplay customisation (the sliders).

How do you like them apples? ;)
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Not trying to have a debate. As you and others have pointed out, FIFA has made tremendous strides this gen, but for me it's still not a real sim. Your five points are fine and I concede the point. However I put you in the same catagory as me in terms of soccer video games - we're a niche customer who plays with sliders and pass assistance and option files and everything else to fine tune the game to make it as sim as possible. My point was to your original premise that PES fans think FIFA's success is due to the licenses. If you took my challenge to your average FIFA player who doesn't frequent these types of forums (probably 99%) they would probably look at you like you have 3 heads and wouldn't even understand the question. EA has a monopoly on these games which represents a whole big chunk of the market. The only way Konami will make a dent in this market is if they also get the licenses. PERIOD!! If this wasn't true, FIFA would have ceased to exist by the end of the last generation.

My issue is with those who claim to be huge soccer fanatics and who only want a true sim and who really, deep down are also attracted to the licenses and numerous leagues before gameplay. Believe me, I was having these debates on these types of forums during the PES 3-6 critical heydays. I'm sorry if hearing now how PES was the best, but FIFA has stepped it up this gen sounds a bit hollow.
 
jesus, the game isnt that bad, WTF. Its pretty fun. 2 v 2 local, is amazing.
I dont get all the hate.... soon with option files and patches on the pc, a lot of these issues will be worked out. Tactics in fifa, SUCK. They do nothing. in pes you can actually see the tactics working to how you set them up.
 
Keith Houchen said:
No, the new gameplay sliders, i.e. increase/decrease passing error, shot power, etc. etc. I included tactical side because some of the gameplay sliders overlap with the sliders we're already familiar with from PES & FIFA over the past few years. Most of FIFA12's gameplay sliders permit universal tweaks to actual game mechanics, allowing you to make and balance your own football game*. It's all similar to that NBA game everybody always mentions.

*I'm reporting on FIFA12's gameplay sliders here, not necessarily endorsing them. For me a great football game should ideally be balanced out of the box and play that way for months or years.*

*waits for the cries of "ah, see, you've undermined your own argument..." Oh, Internet! Oh life! Oh time!
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sorry bro, its nothing like nba2k, nothing
 
Keith Houchen said:
No, the new gameplay sliders, i.e. increase/decrease passing error, shot power, etc. etc. I included tactical side because some of the gameplay sliders overlap with the sliders we're already familiar with from PES & FIFA over the past few years. Most of FIFA12's gameplay sliders permit universal tweaks to actual game mechanics, allowing you to make and balance your own football game*. It's all similar to that NBA game everybody always mentions.

*I'm reporting on FIFA12's gameplay sliders here, not necessarily endorsing them. For me a great football game should ideally be balanced out of the box and play that way for months or years.*

*waits for the cries of "ah, see, you've undermined your own argument..." Oh, Internet! Oh life! Oh time!
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Sorry, but if you can't change it in-game (and probably on the fly) then it's not a "tactic" or "strategy".
 
Han said:
News about a 360-patch:



Caniggia has contacts at Konami, so this should be reliable.

Finally some news :)
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Does it fix the gameplay to be as good as Demo 2? That is the main question, i'd happily put up with the run bug all year if they get that magical gameplay back.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Does it fix the gameplay to be as good as Demo 2? That is the main question, i'd happily put up with the run bug all year if they get that magical gameplay back.
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For me Demo 2 was the only demo for the 360 ( this patch is about the 360, not PS3 ). It was not good because it got this sprintbug and also those short stops of the whole game.

I am not sure what the patch will fix, but most obvious is the sprintbug.
 
they really need to sort out the online aswell for xbox, matches have been cancelled a few times and now i have got really bad rating even though i only have quit once due to horrific connection. so what have konami really been doing for past year? put on pes 2011 game and its pretty much identical to be honest with you. for xbox that is, i want demo version gameplay back, konami really need to be issued that its a step back from demo to retail.
 
Can we maybe get a new thread created for all this moaning?

I've nothing against people venting their legitemate frustrations but it's just getting ridiculously out of hand. I come into this thread for news on Option files, general fun chat and things like that. Not to see the same small handful of people act as if they represent all of us and sit here going on and on and on about how shit PES is.

I've read the exact same complaint repeated by the exact same posters too many times now. I'm not sure who they're trying desperately to convince but If they wish to continue, please can we have it all contained to a separate thread?

I'm not talking about well thought out posts. Just the 'RIP PES you piece of shit' style posters.
 
ctruppi said:
Not trying to have a debate. As you and others have pointed out, FIFA has made tremendous strides this gen, but for me it's still not a real sim. Your five points are fine and I concede the point. However I put you in the same catagory as me in terms of soccer video games - we're a niche customer who plays with sliders and pass assistance and option files and everything else to fine tune the game to make it as sim as possible. My point was to your original premise that PES fans think FIFA's success is due to the licenses. If you took my challenge to your average FIFA player who doesn't frequent these types of forums (probably 99%) they would probably look at you like you have 3 heads and wouldn't even understand the question. EA has a monopoly on these games which represents a whole big chunk of the market. The only way Konami will make a dent in this market is if they also get the licenses. PERIOD!! If this wasn't true, FIFA would have ceased to exist by the end of the last generation.

My issue is with those who claim to be huge soccer fanatics and who only want a true sim and who really, deep down are also attracted to the licenses and numerous leagues before gameplay. Believe me, I was having these debates on these types of forums during the PES 3-6 critical heydays. I'm sorry if hearing now how PES was the best, but FIFA has stepped it up this gen sounds a bit hollow.
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So what makes a simulation and how do you define it?and what element of pes2012 would you gauge as simulated?.Stats?because the ball doesnt behave realistically,the animation is unrealistic,the keepers arent reaslistic,the collision system is firmly rooted in the 1990s and the pace of the game is a far cry from real footie.Add to this the fact that the tempo is generally forced on you and pes is so scripted and contrived theres no real game balance anymore if there ever was in the first place.

Same problem as its always been this gen,konami are totally unable to free themselves of the confines or walls that they created on the ps2,instead choosing to remix rather then truly innovate or evolve.

My posts arent a celebration of fifa,there based on facts and something real and tangible.Its called being grown up and acknowledging the strengths of another product,not,living in blind hope that a insular developer only interested in there bottom line and recycling old tech actually makes a statement again and produces something landmark.

This is a problem affecting 90% of the gaming output from japan currently,which with the exception of nintendo is killing the japanese gaming industry.Any modern business and developement model follows the same trend now to re-invest and create a better product.Not live off past glories and totally BS your customers each year.
 
iluvnineties said:
I suggest you read the evo web better lmfao. Pes12 is crap. Tried it last night for 4-5 matches... 5th mmatch I turned off my ps3. Pes5 has better animations and gameplay than this garbage.
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Mate, I must have seen a hundred of your posts, and I do believe that every one has either been a pointlessly non-constructive slag-off of a next-gen PES game, or part of your WE9LE spamming campaign (I loved WE9LE as much as anyone - well, presumably not as much as you - but those posts get a bit much after a while).

Not sure what you get out of being here, to be honest. Apart from the tiny but precious thrill of irritating people, obviously.
 
iluvnineties said:
I suggest you read the evo web better lmfao. Pes12 is crap. Tried it last night for 4-5 matches... 5th mmatch I turned off my ps3. Pes5 has better animations and gameplay than this garbage.
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If we went by Evo-Web every new PES is shit. I just perused some of the old discussions and funny that you bring up PES5. When it 1st came out, these boards were fuming with people who hated the game speed and cpu cheating and everyhting else and why did they bother buying the new one when they should have just kept playing PES4 and on and on. This game may indeed be crap as you say, but the fact that Evo-Web is aflame is no proof of such a claim - if so, no new PES would ever be decent.
 
Expander said:
Same problem as its always been this gen,konami are totally unable to free themselves of the confines or walls that they created on the ps2,instead choosing to remix rather then truly innovate or evolve.
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I was wondering earlier that assuming PES is still around for the next gen of consoles, would it still be using the same engine. I would bet it would.
 
Expander said:
The thing is should we be really putting up with these imperfections after 4 years now....and how can something like the first demo go from feeling relatively finished to the final product that seems to be so BOTCHED.

Its like konami dont know when they have the balance of PES right,and it always feels like they over tweak,which has a detramental effect on the final product.

Are they maybe listening to people to much and the knee jerk reactions of the community because the first demo of WE2012 was pretty much spot-on albeit the keepers.

Im a konami man of over twenty years all the way back to the NES,but im finding it harder then ever to not be seduced by fifa12s polish,PES still feels heavily scripted and contrived and its always more evident in the final version.

Rom hit the nail on the head over a year ago,konami are trying to get a square peg to go through a round hole.Tech might not be the be all and end all to some,but in modern video game terms its key,animation and fantastic ai both in a attacking and defensive terms is so important in 2012!!,because video games in general have evolved massively.
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Perfect. Exactly my idea. And i think this is because they don't have a vision of what they want to achieve with Pes series.

At this point i am sure that next year something useful and well working in Pes 2012 will be removed in Pes 2013. It's always been this way in next gen Pes while Ps2 Pes were improving upon their previous efforts, and never removing options
 
Expander said:
So what makes a simulation and how do you define it?and what element of pes2012 would you gauge as simulated?.Stats?because the ball doesnt behave realistically,the animation is unrealistic,the keepers arent reaslistic,the collision system is firmly rooted in the 1990s and the pace of the game is a far cry from real footie.Add to this the fact that the tempo is generally forced on you and pes is so scripted and contrived theres no real game balance anymore if there ever was in the first place.

Same problem as its always been this gen,konami are totally unable to free themselves of the confines or walls that they created on the ps2,instead choosing to remix rather then truly innovate or evolve.

My posts arent a celebration of fifa,there based on facts and something real and tangible.Its called being grown up and acknowledging the strengths of another product,not,living in blind hope that a insular developer only interested in there bottom line and recycling old tech actually makes a statement again and produces something landmark.

This is a problem affecting 90% of the gaming output from japan currently,which with the exception of nintendo is killing the japanese gaming industry.Any modern business and developement model follows the same trend now to re-invest and create a better product.Not live off past glories and totally BS your customers each year.
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Great Post
 
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