PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[proxi]

Hopefully the Big Balls Murphy silence on Twitter is because he's kicking ass. I really like the game as it is, however I do miss a few subtle things that were there in the demo.

I'm learning to cope with the AI going into overdrive more now, which is killing my rage and enabling me to enjoy playing for longer. I can't highlight distraction techniques enough in terms of defending against AI onslaughts. Get anything or anyone close to them when they're going to shoot or deliver a pass but especially when they're about to head the ball when in the 6 yard box. I use a press of R1 & R2 combined a lot to lean in on the enemy from the front or side just at the crucial moment. Fuck 'em.

 

[Daytripper]

Omg.. the final game is really what i've been reading here ?

Refs are broken again (they were GREAT on the demo like last year's demo) ? Stumble animation is back (huge advantages for pressure whores, omg) ? Pinball passing online ? Secound pressure closing space in so short time again ? 0 speed too fast ?

What the hell they've done ?

I can't fucking believe it!!

ps: i don't have the game yet, but it's depressing to read these stuff AGAIN this year...

you're best trying the final game yourself

 

[fernadez]

To be fair this is probably the best footy game I've played (but having gone back and downloaded both demos, this retail code is just not the same). Without being able to hold onto the ball for any length of time, its just constant counter attacks for most of the game. It also makes having ball players and smaller players redundant, cause every time they get it, they just stumble and give the ball away. Patch that and you have a totally different game in my opinion.

 

[Professor Nutmeg]

I agree with the floaty shots. I didn't notice them in demo 2, which was very welcome after 2011. However, i've instantly noticed floaty shots in the full game. They're extremely irritating and i have no idea what Konami are trying to do with them.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

To be fair this is probably the best footy game I've played (but having gone back and downloaded both demos, this retail code is just not the same). Without being able to hold onto the ball for any length of time, its just constant counter attacks for most of the game. It also makes having ball players and smaller players redundant, cause every time they get it, they just stumble and give the ball away. Patch that and you have a totally different game in my opinion.

I dont think it's as good as PES 3-6, if they had brought out the final game based on Demo 2 then no doubt it would of been the best football title to date.

 

[fernadez]

I dont think it's as good as PES 3-6, if they had brought out the final game based on Demo 2 then no doubt it would of been the best football title to date.

Yeah i agree, but i'm always wary of how much a part nostalgia plays when thinking about those older games. They may have not been 'better' but the emotion i felt when scoring or conceding, the tension being 1-0 up against a mate with 5 mins left, the individuality of how the players felt...nothing had come close till i played demo 2. So while this retail version is superb in many ways, i still feel a little dissapointed.

On another note i had some more games with the option file installed. Played Stoke last night, constant long balls up to the front two looking for the knock downs, very good.

 

[Marlon Anthony]

Anyone else getting stuck with the same referee over and over again in exhibition? I've had the bald black referee for about 10 games in a row now

 

[Expander]

The thing is should we be really putting up with these imperfections after 4 years now....and how can something like the first demo go from feeling relatively finished to the final product that seems to be so BOTCHED.

Its like konami dont know when they have the balance of PES right,and it always feels like they over tweak,which has a detramental effect on the final product.

Are they maybe listening to people to much and the knee jerk reactions of the community because the first demo of WE2012 was pretty much spot-on albeit the keepers.

Im a konami man of over twenty years all the way back to the NES,but im finding it harder then ever to not be seduced by fifa12s polish,PES still feels heavily scripted and contrived and its always more evident in the final version.

Rom hit the nail on the head over a year ago,konami are trying to get a square peg to go through a round hole.Tech might not be the be all and end all to some,but in modern video game terms its key,animation and fantastic ai both in a attacking and defensive terms is so important in 2012!!,because video games in general have evolved massively.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

The odd thing is, people over at WENB and PESfan are having no issue's with the things we are pointing out?????

Is it us that's crazy? lol

 

[Expander]

The odd thing is, people over at WENB and PESfan are having no issue's with the things we are pointing out?????

Is it us that's crazy? lol

Two sites that are in konamis pockets now and have lost there integrity......bravo for evo-web!!

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I wouldn't say that. There are some honest people who post on other sites, including some who post on here.

Tip for anyone feeling harassed by the AI when you're on the ball, try moving your player (when in tight situations) not by continuously pushing the L stick, but by pushing it briefly, letting go, then letting the little bit of momentum to carry the player forwards. The AI stands off more and your player takes more deliberate touches of the ball. Also, shielding by turning away from a player and not moving the direction stick in any direction also frees up some time.

Doubt the game let's you so this on Top Player, but on Pro it works a treat for me. It's as if the AI doesn't know which direction you'll go in next so stands off a tiny bit. Sounds odd but it works.

 

[Thespeedster84]

No, maybe some guys over here just have too high expectation. Could not find & enjoy some excitements PES 2012 offers.

Some nice constructive arguments while many blatant complaints and Konami bashing as if people have to find out what they find and feel about the game.

Finding/feeling negatives about the game too much does not guarantee Konami to listen so it goes as we would like

People at PESfans & WENB could likely get the most positive stuff out of the game than wasting time about talking the so called fault that may not be fixed even by a patch. I am happy for them tbh

That is my opinion though.

 

[Radiation]

Man I had a quick look at Club Boss mode just now and it looks like a hell of a lot of fun.

Off the top of my head it says you can do things like order your manager to sign a player (even if they don't want them), you can tell them to play in a certain style (eg long ball, counter attack etc) - you can add money to the transfer budget from your personal wealth, or keep it incoming money for yourself... and if your manager pisses you off you can sack him for someone else!

It should basically be renamed The Mike Ashley Simulator mode.

 

[sincover]

The odd thing is, people over at WENB and PESfan are having no issue's with the things we are pointing out?????

Is it us that's crazy? lol

PESfan has a pretty big thread of just complaints. It's a pretty elegant solution as all of the negative stuff stays in one thread and doesn't pollute other discussions. WENB is another matter, the environment over there is almost cult-like.

I come to evo-web because of the balance of opinions here. It's not over moderated to the point of stifling discussions and debates are usually civil. Most folks here have a mutual respect for the opinions of others.

 

[fernadez]

Just had a few more games on the demos, things I noticed.

The ball feels heavier, which slows game down, but also means when you do get it too the wingers and break free, it all feels much more dynamic, the change of pace in the game is more emphasized.

Feels like there is better off the ball movement .

All in all apart from this it feels much the same i was thinking....then I got the ball with Modric, turned the midfielder on my back, sprinted away (this also feels more responsive) held him off at my back slalomed the challenge of the on rushing defender, (which allowed the first midfielder to catch up) held him off and played a through ball through to Lennon, who had seen all this and cut in from the wing in the space vacated by Defoe.

And that for me is the difference between demo and retail.

 

[Lami]

Ignore Hisalek. He's been banned before and is a troll.

The odd thing is, people over at WENB and PESfan are having no issue's with the things we are pointing out?????

Is it us that's crazy? lol

Nope. We're just being Evo-web

Man I had a quick look at Club Boss mode just now and it looks like a hell of a lot of fun.

Off the top of my head it says you can do things like order your manager to sign a player (even if they don't want them), you can tell them to play in a certain style (eg long ball, counter attack etc) - you can add money to the transfer budget from your personal wealth, or keep it incoming money for yourself... and if your manager pisses you off you can sack him for someone else!

It should basically be renamed The Mike Ashley Simulator mode.

 

[FreMM]

Ignore Hisalek. He's been banned before and is a troll.


Nope. We're just being Evo-web

Hi mate, you'd get my PM?
Hope all is well with Mary...

 

[Lami]

Yea FreMM. Just loading PES to answer your questions mate. Wanted to make sure I didn't get you wrong.

 

[FreMM]

Yea FreMM. Just loading PES to answer your questions mate. Wanted to make sure I didn't get you wrong.

You're an absolute star mate!!!!

 

[Expander]

Just had a few more games on the demos, things I noticed.

The ball feels heavier, which slows game down, but also means when you do get it too the wingers and break free, it all feels much more dynamic, the change of pace in the game is more emphasized.

Feels like there is better off the ball movement .

All in all apart from this it feels much the same i was thinking....then I got the ball with Modric, turned the midfielder on my back, sprinted away (this also feels more responsive) held him off at my back slalomed the challenge of the on rushing defender, (which allowed the first midfielder to catch up) held him off and played a through ball through to Lennon, who had seen all this and cut in from the wing in the space vacated by Defoe.

And that for me is the difference between demo and retail.

Exactly,and its not a placebo thing..

Hell,im not being negative for the sake of it,but how hard is it to have some continuity,weve gone from something that just needed polishing(demo)to tweaks that have had a detramental effect on the final game for the worst.

But its ok,i can just learn to work around all the defensive flaws of the ai because its nice scoring and the ai actually does what it should of been doing for the last four years in attack.

Jesus guys!wake up and smell the coffee,we are being stung year after year with a near indentikit product thats got more holes and flaws then a roof put on by a cowboy builder.

Theres love,commitment and loyalty but its all coming from the consumer not the developer.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Ignore Hisalek. He's been banned before and is a troll.


Nope. We're just being Evo-web

And that is a great thing

Do you guys have any connections to Konami to get our issue's with the final game and demo's across? It seems Jon Murphy has gone AWOL as soon as PES was released which is never a good sign lol.

 

[logix]

Is there any chance of a patch to make the game like the demo?

You're asking Konami or some random person for a patch to make the full game like the demo which is supposed to be unfinished? LOL!

I bought FIFA 12, started winning every match 1 or 2-0. A week later I sold it as it was by far inferior to the demo of pes.

What difficulty level were you playing on? Amateur mode?

If PES2012 was the same as the demo, I'm sure that many FIFA converts would have come back over the course of the year.

I wouldn't, so there you go.

I really am baffled.

PES is my favourite series, oh well at least Skyrim is out soon!

You're baffled by the obvious? This is normal routine, happens every year.

 

[Miro]

Its unbelieveble, what they ve done to this once great game.
This game needs to be completly redone, its crap every year.

 

[DuduBR9]

LOL relax its not that bad. I am having an absolute blast with this game and I have just about come to terms with its gross imperfections.

lol... ok, finally i just got my copy here and i'll test latter and put some impressions.

I'm going to watch my brother playing online(cheaper player, he's always looking for flaws to score cheap goals), so i know it will be awful to watch, but i know it's not right to judge the whole game based on online experience with assisted passing and arcadish fast gameplay style.

Now i'm thinking about what's going to be my first match...
i know i'll play in top player, -2 speed and zero passing assistance, maybe a 20 or 25 minutes match.

I'll give my honest impression latter.

 

[logix]

So is the general feeling pes 2011 is better or no worse than pes 2012?

PES 2011 for me.

Passing is light years ahead in PES 2011, terrible in PES 2012, simply because everyone passes and crosses the same way, same exact movement. Feels incredibly scripted.

Player individuality has been thrown outta the window. Add the blurryness of the game and it all goes in ruins.

It's an involution.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I think you only talk about offline do you? I assume online is also too fast at your Xbox...? Or not?

Offline only mate, I personally don't enjoy online football games, all in my experience have been glitch fests.

Don't know what it is to be honest, maybe now that I've learnt how to play slower, the game feels suitably slowed down. But the game speed on -2 somehow feels less frantic than on PS3. I might just be talking out of my arse but I'm enjoying the 360 version a lot more than the brief period I had the PS3 one. Odd.

Won't be playing this a massive amount until I start a ML, but until then I've got FIFA12 career mode to do yet. Once I'm bored with that I'll move properly onto PES. With both versions this year, stumble animation aside lol, it's the first time in ages that I've had two football games I enjoy . With these two plus Forza, Batman Arkham City, Bioshock Infinite, and of course Battlefield 3 I don't know where to find the time for them all while trying to lead a normal social life!

 

[Northzzz]

the worst thing i noticed is the defensive line has been dropped to make it harder to score vs. the ai, but now they defend on the edge of the 6 yard box, its pathetic and completely unrealistic, forget ever scoring a long shot because the ball has to beat 11 players huddled in the penalty area

look at this screenshot it was in the 36th minute: http://i.imgur.com/8Imo5.jpg
also my own team was doing the same thing so its not just a small club trying to be defensive, they've basically tweaked something so every team defends crazily deep

Yeah i don't think there's any real argument against that

 

[ctruppi]

As long as us PES fans comfort ourselves with the myth that FIFA owes its success to licenses, graphics, tricks, kids, casuals, backhanders to media, etc. (did I miss anything there?), PES will be in as much danger as at any time in its history.

I'm loving PES2012. I think most people currently complaining about it will also love it in a few days or weeks.

Relatively few people outside the PES fan bubble are bothered about PES any more. Konami need to look hard at why. Marketing is a big part of the answer, but only a part.

The FIFA thing is not a myth. There was a FIFA version on PS2 when PES was really hitting its stride where you literally could not head the ball. Yes, EA shipped the final game with this defect. No online connection for patches back then either. A couple of years later, FIFA shipped and you literally could not beat any defender with any attacker off the dribble - EA acknowledged as much. During this time, PES was generally acclaimed by critics but still failed to beat FIFA in sales (except in some select markets). By all rights, EA should have pulled FIFA off the shelves these years as they did last year with NBA live disaster up against NBA2k12. They didn't though, because they have an advantage in soccer that they don't have in hoops - LICENCES!

If EA had exclusive rights to the NBA license and NBA2k12 came out with fictional names and teams (a la PES), EA would never have pulled NBA Live because they know that the vast majority of gamers (esp younger ones) are like mosquitos drawn to the shiny glow of EA purchased licenses. There would be forums right now where the NBA Live crowd would be arguing that EA gameplay is way better than NBA2k12 (generally considered the best sports video game ever).

I have a challenge for anyone coming to these boards who is contemplating playing FIFA 12 - list 5 ways that FIFA 12 is superior to PES 12 w/o using the following topics: licenses, graphics, animations or commentary. THis is for offline only as I concede that FIFA is a far superior product online. I also concede that FIFA was a much better game 2009-2010 - although not the sim renaissance FIFA fans would have you think, they won more becuase PES forfeited with their horrible efforts.

Yes, PES needs to fix some things or it will go the way of the Dodo and that will be a shame for those of us who want the old spirit back. But you can not overestimate the power of the licenses and online for FIFA. Gamers ARE disproportianately young and those of us on this board who hunger for a deeper sim experience are a very small niche. We may feel that Konami don't listen to us, but in the cold, cruel world of business, we are expendable in a way. It sucks, but that's the truth.

 

[priskinsprick]

The only reason the game has become so much worse since demo is due to making it a game that works online.

The online game obviously couldnt cope being responsive and flowing, so theyve had to:
- make the physics ridiculous so that the ball can go out of play or caught by the goalkeeper giving the online calculator a chance to breathe
- instead of a quick power bar and release we have to watch an animation while the information is sent to the server
I could go on but this is the only sane reason I can see for such a fall in quality.

Basically, it must be easier making an online game with scripts rather than freedom, and while it's nice to have freedom and a realistic ball, it must be too hard to implement properly in an online game. So a full assisted and scripted game is what we're left with, basically pes 2011.5 with a decent online mode.



So all we're left with is pes 2011.5...

As an almost exclusively offline player who thoroughly enjoyed/enjoys () the demo, I am absolutely fuming that the product promised has been compromised.

And I can't believe people make excuses for it! Everyone loved the demo, I can't find anyone who prefers the full game!

2 years in a row!

Never having my cash again Konami! Hope you enjoyed it!

 

[Expander]

The FIFA thing is not a myth. There was a FIFA version on PS2 when PES was really hitting its stride where you literally could not head the ball. Yes, EA shipped the final game with this defect. No online connection for patches back then either. A couple of years later, FIFA shipped and you literally could not beat any defender with any attacker off the dribble - EA acknowledged as much. During this time, PES was generally acclaimed by critics but still failed to beat FIFA in sales (except in some select markets). By all rights, EA should have pulled FIFA off the shelves these years as they did last year with NBA live disaster up against NBA2k12. They didn't though, because they have an advantage in soccer that they don't have in hoops - LICENCES!

If EA had exclusive rights to the NBA license and NBA2k12 came out with fictional names and teams (a la PES), EA would never have pulled NBA Live because they know that the vast majority of gamers (esp younger ones) are like mosquitos drawn to the shiny glow of EA purchased licenses. There would be forums right now where the NBA Live crowd would be arguing that EA gameplay is way better than NBA2k12 (generally considered the best sports video game ever).

I have a challenge for anyone coming to these boards who is contemplating playing FIFA 12 - list 5 ways that FIFA 12 is superior to PES 12 w/o using the following topics: licenses, graphics, animations or commentary. THis is for offline only as I concede that FIFA is a far superior product online. I also concede that FIFA was a much better game 2009-2010 - although not the sim renaissance FIFA fans would have you think, they won more becuase PES forfeited with their horrible efforts.

Yes, PES needs to fix some things or it will go the way of the Dodo and that will be a shame for those of us who want the old spirit back. But you can not overestimate the power of the licenses and online for FIFA. Gamers ARE disproportianately young and those of us on this board who hunger for a deeper sim experience are a very small niche. We may feel that Konami don't listen to us, but in the cold, cruel world of business, we are expendable in a way. It sucks, but that's the truth.

Fifa was bad joke up until 2008 when it started finally to get its act together and at least be competitive.fifa09,10,11 were ok,but overall against the cpu felt predictable,boring with no sense of player individuality or any real differences in the teams,however,physics,animation and teamate ai made pes feel a little redundant and old hat but pes still felt like real football.

Konami had something in pes2011,which in my opinion ea have tapped into in fifa12 as its no longer the one trick pony it was in previous years.

Will ea ever be given the credit they deserve by the hardcore,of course not.Ties run deep and most are creatures of habit with in-grained brand loyalty.

Personally as a football fanatic and hardcore gamer of more then thirty years who understands real footballing technique and doesnt accept cheap immitations,ea imo this year in fifa12 has made there game head and shoulders above anything konami have churned out.And thats the ironic thing,the tables have turned and its now konami cloning what ea have been doing over the last four years.It might not be the perfect football simulation(fifa12)but its closer then pes currently is or has been and at least ea are trying to realistically re-produce what happens on a football pitch not mimick it with coding tricks from the 1990s.

Pes2012 in its final form feels like a rip off of the fifa world cup game released last summer,to fast,souless with everything that made pes so landmark stripped back to a basic arcade game.

The license argument and individuality issues hold no water anymore,fifa12s gameplays holds up as does its ai both in attack and defense.