PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Lami said:
I believe both of them are in the same boat as Seabass. Brilliant PS2 games, good PS3 games. From what I know, Seabass doesn't have enough resources and time to fully exploit the PS3. The PS3 as a system was complained about lots by devs as being difficult or complicated to deal with. Couple that with what Seabass said and you'd get the idea. Also, you still can't compare a sports game to another genre. AI much more complex in addition to animations, graphics etc.

I think Sony made a mistake with the PS3, but that's just my personal opinion. Had it been like the PS2, I think we would've seen much better progress from games.

Hopefully, from now on, things only get better. Actually tbh, I don't care much about this gen anymore. I want companies to put next-gen as their primary goal from this moment onwards. Have meetings with both Sony and Microsoft, have a look at their next console, learn how to deal with it asap so we can enjoy almost full potential from day one.

EDIT: What Rad said as well.
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At the end of the day it's up to the developers to understand how to program for the consoles they're developing for. You know that in the right hands developers can make stunning games on the ps3 (Uncharted, MGS4, GT5 etc). It's all these developers who go multi-platform who seem to struggle with the PS3. That's their decision to do so and i don't feel sorry for any of them if they can't allocate their resources/don't have resources to match that ambition well enough. If they wanted to program specifically for either Xbox or PS3 then it'd be more beneficial for the game because they'd be looking programming definitively for the game to work as best as it can on said console. Look at those examples of the PS3 exclusives or how PC-only developers do that.

And really if you want an example of a sports game that is exclusive to one console and benefits from that, for reasons above, then look no further than MLB: The Show.

The thing is PES gets 1 year to develop a new game in. They want to develop for as many consoles as is possible to make as much money as they can. To me that scope isn't working well from a quality of standards perspective. I don't think PES is bad at all this year but we all want it to be so much, and think it can be.
 
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I believe the issue with PS3 games and 360 games differing is, most games have the 360 as the lead platform as that's closest to pc. They make their game based on the limitations of the 360 and then once it works on the 360 they port the data across to PS3.
But it's MUCH harder to work something from 360 to PS3 than create it on ps3 and port it to 360.

Unfortunately they made their decision based on which console came out first and that was the 360. When the PS3 came no one was prepared for the difficulty in porting and so a lot of dev time is taken up trying to find ways of getting the same results on 2 consoles. I guess the cost of them restarting on PS3 is greater than the cost for porting each year.
 
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Radiation said:
I believe the issue with PS3 games and 360 games differing is, most games have the 360 as the lead platform as that's closest to pc. They make their game based on the limitations of the 360 and then once it works on the 360 they port the data across to PS3.
But it's MUCH harder to work something from 360 to PS3 than create it on ps3 and port it to 360.
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Porting from PS3 to 360 is too hard with certain games because of space issues. Then there's the tech differences too, but i don't know enough about them really or the inherent way both consoles function. A guess would be not that similarly though if we see such differences when porting games. Consoles are strange. Don't the CPU and GPU handle things combined rather than each having separate processes. Perhaps just the way that the consoles function proves a nightmare with multi-platforming and effectively streamlining your game for both consoles.

If 360 is the lead platform, which it probably is, then is the game we see on 360 the best that console can handle?
 
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Northzzz said:
Porting from PS3 to 360 is too hard with certain games because of space issues. Then there's the tech differences too, but i don't know enough about them really or the inherent way both consoles function. A guess would be not that similarly though if we see such differences when porting games. Consoles are strange. Don't the CPU and GPU handle things combined rather than each having separate processes. Perhaps just the way that the consoles function proves a nightmare with multi-platforming and effectively streamlining your game for both consoles.

If 360 is the lead platform, which it probably is, then is the game we see on 360 the best that console can handle?
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PC is lead platform has been since 2008. 99% of games are now coded on PC even those PS3 exclusives ;)

Also your not serious that PES 2012 is the best 360 can handle are you? You seen Crysis 2? Forza 4? Rage? Madden 12? Gears 3? etc etc (would be here all day saying every game that is far better technically on 360 than PES 2012)
 
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well here we go , just bought the game and to be fair I hardly ever play footie games offline so my opinion is based purely for online PES 2012

played 3 games, drew 2 and won one....absolutely love it

if i'm honest i absolutley hated PES 2011 , even though I kept playing the odd game and trying to convince myself it was still one of my favourite games to play....i know it's only early doors but i'm really enjoying pes 2012...by the way i own ps3 and xbox 360 and decided to go for the ps3 version. Downloaded the demo on each console and found the ps3 version to be less laggy and more fluid, and the retail version is alot better than the demo and the graphics seem to be better, slightly more refined or perhaps it's just me but so far i'm glad i bought this game and formed my own opinion.
 
DAD0_PRS0_9 said:
Hi folks time to have my piece. Not posted a lot or for while but this year seems to have broken the camels back for this pes fan (maybe) I say maybe as I played the first demo on pc and honestly Thot this is the year, pes is back to greatness. Super smooth on my 4 year old laptop and very reminiscent of pes 6 (pc version still best footy game by a mile) anyway I get FIFA 12 2 weeks ago and really do enjoy it especially online, AI can still be very unrealistic tho, then the big day 3 days ago PES12 for PS3 and i have never been so dissapointed (since pes08) it didn't seem half the game the first demo on pc was. I have played it non stop test and today but still can't get around my disappointment. The animations are really idrking me now (side step thing is frightening) maybe I have finally been blinded by FIFA but went back to the pc demo and what a difference, less frantic, felt more in control, could get a sense of weight, momentum and animations were a lot better,

Never Thot about returning a pes game in my life but when tomo comes think ill trade for the pc version.

Anyone else have this view comparing the ps3 and pc versions?
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Bang on...I honestly can't even play the PS3 version any more, it's just too broken. As others have said on here and other forums changing the speed, camera angle etc etc just sends the game skitz. It's basically unplayable.

I then tried the PC version, and it's like a TOTALLY different game, I don't say this lightly but I'd rate the PS3 version as about a 7 and that's being generous, maybe even a 6.5. The PC version I'd rate at 9 or 9.5, it's stunning. Players are responsive but don't feel skaty, player switching is brilliant, keepers are solid and do what you expect. Just everything. The PC is the way to go guys.
 
Northzzz said:
I don't think master league has been that good for a while now. Not since it went all serious and stopped you being able to edit league structures. I actually preferred Fifa's career mode during my very brief stint with Fifa 12 because you can edit it and make a European super league with 4 tiers. I honestly don't see what ML offers now that Fifa's career mode doesn't, except loads of bugs. Oh how i yearn to have a league comprised of Man United, Chelsea, Barcelona, Juventus, Real Madrid, Liverpool, Arsenal, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Porto, Benfica, Rangers, Celtic, Lyon, PSG, Bayern, Dortmund and my custom made ML team again.
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This x 1000.

I'm bored of the real world of football. Is this kind of fun fantasy shit too much to ask for?
 
romagnoli said:
Good god online is atrocious this year.
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In what way? Do you mean the fully-assisted passers with their crazy arcade stylings - or do you mean technically?

I just had a couple of games against PEELers with all assists off, playing decent football, and it was great. Much smoother than last year, for me at least, no lag at all (just a ton of screen tearing on cutscenes). The only issue I could see with the actual gameplay was that it's still too easy to close someone down before they've even controlled the ball... which is nuts, considering that offline everyone seems to have instant control. I could see that being a problem in the Lobby 1 bearpit, but then everything's a problem with that strange brand of non-football most people play in there.
 
Jamezinho said:
This x 1000.

I'm bored of the real world of football. Is this kind of fun fantasy shit too much to ask for?
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I do that every year with the master league. Just last year you couldn't move the French teams.

I put my team and the likes of Milan, barca, man u, inter, Munich, Porto, juventus in one division and keep a few good teams in the others for the champions league
 
It seems that there are some pretty startling differences between versions (as there were with the demos) playing the 360 version and a lot of the criticisms posted here aren't things I can agree with at all. Like, goalkeepers... I have seen ONE bit of goalkeeping which was anything more than slightly questionable (and it was a massive fuck up) but that's one in a large number of goals.

Playing offline with friends feels smooth, realistic, and strategic. It's not perfect, but I'm really enjoying the game and the goals I'm scoring. I've never seen a game which produces so many believable goals and plays.

A
 
gameklip said:
Not played it yet. I pray the stutter bug isn't prevalent on 360.
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I turned on my pes and got an update so instantly thought that was it but wrong, its ruining the game for me and putting me off getting properly into the game. konami need to pull there finger out, this doesn't get sorted out fast, it'll not do much for there reputation.
 
I need to stop playing online, terrible keep losing no one wants to play a decent game of football. Same old shit.

I like that shooting has been weighted down but the assistance does not help and penalties why oh whyU did they make it so you can't fire wide or high, unbelievable konami. 2011 system wasn't perfect but dumbing it down to what we have now is embarassing.
 
Goalkeeper positioning is bugging me immensely. Scoring low shots into the corner from outside the box doesn't feel rewarding at all. It just feels like the keeper doesn't bother to position himself.

Another example happened 3 minutes into my first game today Pepe takes a shot from 30 yard which deflect off of Vidic. De Gea only started to move after the deflection had been made and it was about 20 yards in front of him so he could quite clearly see the ball. Thankfully (sarcasm) He started to move in the opposite direction to where it was quite clear the ball was now going. Obviously he didn't bother to move back across and ended up doing some awful standing dive which of course was nowhere near to stopping the ball.

Edit: Here's the video. I slowed it down so you can see exactly what i mean when i say he moves after he can see the deflection has been made.

YouTube - bad.avi

In addition. Man oh man and fouls bug me too. There's no consistency with them. Very often the slightest knock is a foul but apparently when players go into players and make them stumble off the ball that isn't a lot of the time. The advantage rule is sometimes applied in scenarios were it's quite evident there's going to be no advantage whatsoever. In this match for instance there was a situation where I think i brushed Sergio Ramos and the ball went 15 yards away into a direction where there were no Real players. Evra jogged to get it and as soon as i touched it the ref blew for the foul.
 
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Chimps-with-quiffs said:
There is some cards that need removed. I put them on a load of players last year as players had no sense of position when going forward.
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Dunno if this helps but i took the Fox in the Box card off Adebayor and put on Dummy Runner and the movement is much better now, he's come alive, coming short, running the channels, getting on crosses, much much better.
 
On a completely unrelated note - Do goalkeepers no longer go up for corner kicks in the last minute? I just had one in the 91st minute 5-4 down to Real and he didn't come up.
 
romagnoli said:
Good god online is atrocious this year.
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i agree
by the way, offline pes 2012 played at -1 game speed, 0 passing assistance, professional difficulty is an awesome game
Konami managed to ruin the online game once more, this time it's not lag, it's arcade and sprint whores world, plus ping pong passing assistance
 
makky said:
Really like this game so far. When you start an offline Master League how do you start with a current team? Is it only the default teams that are available?
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You have to buy the option to use real teams, it's in the PES shop and costs 100 seabass coins.
 
Here's my theory:

They made a great, responsive fluid game for the demo - but to make it work online they changed it for the full release. This is why the teammate AI has virtually disappeared, the shooting is weak, the responsiveness gone, because online it works better for a delay between button press and on-screen action.

I understand some people love it with the speed down etc, but you have to admit that it's basically a wimp infested swamp fest rather than the fluid game it was on demo. I didn't like 2011 for the same reason, and that was the first PES I've got bored of within a few weeks.

Chuck offline in the bin and make the offline game as good as the demo! I hope some PC technician can make the game work with the demo 1 game bit as the game so you can play master league with the decent version.

Also, while I'm at it, the shooting in the retail version is terribly weak, meaning that defending is basically keep the players out of the box - if the shots on it doesn't really warrant too much attention as it will be a foaming dribbler, needing a deflection to have any chance.

Anyway, manager Chris Kiwomya is the manager of Butterfly Ballbag FC in the 2nd division, 2nd in the league yet hating the physics and black magic of their realm. And the refs are as bent as a 11 pound coin.

Don't think I don't love PES, it just seems that what I love about it didn't/doesn't and won't matter to Konami.

How do I get in touch with the makers? Surely I can get a refund on the grounds that the demo isn't at all like the game!

Ballbags
 
This game is a lot of fun but it is not a simulation. Keepers make the game 10 times worse/more annoying/comical (dependent on you mood) than it should be.

That's my opinion of the game so far summed up in two sentences.

My last match was a 5-4 thriller with Real. I think about 2 of the goals were decent, the rest were comical or just largely unrewarding daisy cutters. I'm in a jovial mood so i just laughed at most of them. I've got a great selection of moments to upload to youtube from just 2 games tonight.

http://www.evo-web.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=2358542&postcount=134

That's the link and they kind of go hand in hand with the stuff i've been posting tonight. I've moved them to the video thread to stop occupying so much space on this page.

I also sorted out my colours and now the game looks absolutely fantastic.
 
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