PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[Rodelero]

Hmm. I'm not really sure where I'm at with PES 2012. At times it plays beautifully - better than any football game I've ever played but oh my GOD the flaws are just unbelievable at times. Have to admit I expected better considering how good it was a few months ago - it feels that it's barely gone forward and even gone backwards in some areas.

Gameplay wise it's my football game of choice this year but that isn't saying much. Gameplay wise it's about... 70% really good, 10% OK and 20% fucking awful.

 

[pretty]

Is anyone else getting really choppy framerates in cutscenes and replays on PS3?

Yeah the framerate drops a lot, it's bad enough that replays are 30fps but it struggles to keep a solid 30fps.

It's a joke really as pes 6 on 360 had buttery smooth replays at 60fps, the replays in pes 2012 are choppy like fifas, both games framerates drop to below 30fps, the onlu way to get better framerates is play on a decentish pc. Although the ps3 and 360 are more than capable of handling it, but konami decided to have lower framerates in replays so they could add a shit load of processing such as that shit blur effect

 

[dannyfc2]

Grrr had enough of this game tonight.

Passing is pissing me off at the moment. The difference between severely underhitting it and absolutely smashing it is about a millisecond. There doesn't seem to be a consistent level of power for each pass. Got so frustrated that I turned it up to 2/4 and suddenly the game is massively easy again.

Why do the CPU always, without fail, go to ground following a shot-feint? One of my favourite dribbling techniques but I daren't use it as 9 times out of 10 it'll result in a foul.

Shooting does feel off. Far too many of my shots are going straight down the middle despite aiming for the corner. I don't mind them whooshing off far and wide occasionally, but the ball seems almost attracted to the middle of the goal.

Top Player is constant harassment, Professional is so far the inverse that it's impossible not to have 60%+ possession.

Still not won over by dribbling, on PES 2011 the clear touches and angles gave me control over what I was doing. On this I seem to just be holding R2 and waggling the analog stick, players keep it so close to their body it's hard to turn a man.


Uhhhh i think i've just over done it and lost my patience somewhat. Was enjoying it yesterday but now I'm not so sure it's better than PES 2011.

 

[pretty]

While fifa is good in places it's missing a couple of things, firstly the player individuality from pes and secondly the feeling pes gives you when you score.

The day fifa makes me feel like that pes can fuck off, but until then i'm pes all the way.

Oh and ea need to sort the replays out they are shit lol

pes used to have good rrplays but they are getting shit too

 

[Northzzz]

Hmm. I'm not really sure where I'm at with PES 2012. At times it plays beautifully - better than any football game I've ever played but oh my GOD the flaws are just unbelievable at times. Have to admit I expected better considering how good it was a few months ago - it feels that it's barely gone forward and even gone backwards in some areas.

Gameplay wise it's my football game of choice this year but that isn't saying much. Gameplay wise it's about... 70% really good, 10% OK and 20% fucking awful.

+ 1.

The more i play this game against the computer the more irritated i become. 70% of the time the goals the computer scores are so annoying. I'm quite willing to applaud good work from the CPU but it's just most of them seem to come from sheer game faults. Poor keeper positioning, constant keeper parrys back into the box etc. Some guy scored a sliding shot earlier after the CPU crossed it in. He was sliding away from goal and somehow managed to aim the shot at goal. Plus he hit it right into my keeper who proceeded to let the ball hit him and go in. I literally just rage quit after the computer scored a bicycle kick volley 2 inches from the ground after an attempted freekick shot went directly back into Miccoli's path. After a whole year of PES 2011 i'm sick of those shots being so powerful/accurate.

Edit: Here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX6iaZjKlz4

I wish i could play some local multiplayer but i have no like-minded friends when it comes to PES. It would really eradicate a lot of my issues with the CPU.

Whilst i'm complaining. Fouls are flawed too. The ref's miss some obvious fouls where both i and the CPU get taken out and stumble to the floor but never think twice about blowing the whistle on the edge of the box if you so much as run into another player and slightly knock him despite him staying upright and there being no real danger anyway. There should be a system whereby freekicks in really dangerous areas like on the edge of the box are only giving in times where players actually get taken out. I know that's not perfect and/or realistic but it's a lot better than what is happening at current.

Shooting does feel off. Far too many of my shots are going straight down the middle despite aiming for the corner. I don't mind them whooshing off far and wide occasionally, but the ball seems almost attracted to the middle of the goal.

Yeah that's completely true. I had that about 4 times during my Malaga-Palermo game just now. 2 were outside the box so i won't focus on them so much but another 2 times i was in acres of space in the box with Van Nistelrooy and he hit it straight down the middle both times despite me really trying to aim for the left hand side of the goal. I'm not sure what the trick for aiming is just yet at all.

 

[pretty]

To be fair both games are shit but pes is less shit.

Pes 5 is great and its not rose tinted glasses as i played it recently and while it hasnt aged well graphically it plays great.

What we need is ea to buy konami then we would have the best football game.

Both games this year have some good things and it really seems that what both games are missing, the other one has.

Imagine the animation of fifa with pes individuality and polish of fifa with masterleague mode

 

[gomito#10]

Is it me or is this game completely broken on the 360?

When running the player stops himself starts stops starts stops, When running the player chooses to run in a different direction than what you are pressing. Shooting i feel i have no control over and just seems completely random 75% of the time. All in all i dont feel in control and to me it's the CPU who decides what i do?

Defence AI is non existent, when controlling a full back my 2 CB's which are AI start running towards the ball or wonder off aimlessly leaving a simple pass to a player to be through one on one. (After having to put up with Fifa's terrible defence AI im gutted PES is just as bad)

Then the issue of own goals, in two days play i must of seen at least 25 own goals which is probably more than i have seen from PES + Fifa combined in the last 3 years.

Oddly i really enjoyed the demo but disappointed in the final game, Sure it was more fluid this feels robotic like PES 2011. Thinking to myself where on earth did WENB get their 9 from?

Should i get rid of it for the PS3 version, any issues with that?

stop start is the run bug, sign off controler 1, sign in with controller 2, fixes the issue

 

[dannyfc2]

Despite my rant I have to say I rarely feel 'cheated' by the CPU. I have no doubt they are playing far above their respective players stats, and the unpenalised tackles from behind are frustrating.

But I've never thought 'Oh the CPU has scored and there was nothing I could do about it'. I've had plenty of instances where they've missed last minute easy chances etc. They clearly have an 'advantage' over the human player, but I don't believe games and outcomes are scripted per say.

 

[Northzzz]

To be fair both games are shit but pes is less shit.

Pes 5 is great and its not rose tinted glasses as i played it recently and while it hasnt aged well graphically it plays great.

What we need is ea to buy konami then we would have the best football game.

Both games this year have some good things and it really seems that what both games are missing, the other one has.

Imagine the animation of fifa with pes individuality and polish of fifa with masterleague mode

I don't think master league has been that good for a while now. Not since it went all serious and stopped you being able to edit league structures. I actually preferred Fifa's career mode during my very brief stint with Fifa 12 because you can edit it and make a European super league with 4 tiers. I honestly don't see what ML offers now that Fifa's career mode doesn't, except loads of bugs. Oh how i yearn to have a league comprised of Man United, Chelsea, Barcelona, Juventus, Real Madrid, Liverpool, Arsenal, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Porto, Benfica, Rangers, Celtic, Lyon, PSG, Bayern, Dortmund and my custom made ML team again.

 

[dannyfc2]

You can edit league structures Northzzz, go into Edit Mode. I put all the Other European teams into D2.

Master League is ok, but yeah I'm not sure all these tacked on features are necessary. Keep getting moaned at in broken Engrish by several players at the end of each game. I don't see what the cutscenes add either tbh, just end up skipping through them.

 

[_anderson]

The game in terms of gameplay is excellent this year, but still has that inconsistency problem that has been in all PES games this gen. We miss the "complete package and perfectly balanced game" feelings from the old days, that's the reason why the same person on these boards first says he loves it, then says he hates it, then he says he loves it again. It's actually how the game is, it's not a consistent experience, it can be awesome, it can be "bizarre".

One of the reasons I've been playing mostly BAL in this year's PES, somehow, it's so much less prone to these sort of things. It's fantastic this year really, those who're not too happy with the game in exhibition modes should try it.

 

[dannyfc2]

I plan to jump into BAL next time just to get my bearings with the game a bit more.

 

[Northzzz]

You can edit league structures Northzzz, go into Edit Mode. I put all the Other European teams into D2.

Master League is ok, but yeah I'm not sure all these tacked on features are necessary. Keep getting moaned at in broken Engrish by several players at the end of each game. I don't see what the cutscenes add either tbh, just end up skipping through them.

There are some leagues that you can't edit. Like the French for example and the Spanish might be the same this year due to them having all the teams licensed. It's weird when you're left with some complete leagues and then mix and match others but other than that it's possible to create custom leagues.

Unless i'm stepping way off the mark and it isn't like PES 2011 was.

The game in terms of gameplay is excellent this year, but still has that inconsistency problem that has been in all PES games this gen. We miss the "complete package and perfectly balanced game" feelings from the old days, that's the reason why the same person on these boards first says he loves it, then says he hates it, then he says he loves it again. It's actually how the game is, it's not a consistent experience, it can be awesome, it can be "bizarre".

That is very true.

 

[dannyfc2]

Is online as bad as everyone makes out?

I must admit for about 5 months I really enjoyed MLO last year. Especially during the team building process, made coming up against Messi & co. tolerable at least. How much different is it this year? I keep reading how it's easier to get the stars now...is the gameplay more unbalanced then before? I've not found defending too difficult but I don't know how well I'd cope with Ronaldo in a laggy game.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Its fucking hard mate. everyone seems to have super teams already for fucksakes. how did they manage that? i need to know how to do it so i can have an even match otherwise MLO is a fucking waste of a mode

 

[Daytripper]

Is it me or is this game completely broken on the 360?

When running the player stops himself starts stops starts stops, When running the player chooses to run in a different direction than what you are pressing. Shooting i feel i have no control over and just seems completely random 75% of the time. All in all i dont feel in control and to me it's the CPU who decides what i do?

Defence AI is non existent, when controlling a full back my 2 CB's which are AI start running towards the ball or wonder off aimlessly leaving a simple pass to a player to be through one on one. (After having to put up with Fifa's terrible defence AI im gutted PES is just as bad)

Then the issue of own goals, in two days play i must of seen at least 25 own goals which is probably more than i have seen from PES + Fifa combined in the last 3 years.

Oddly i really enjoyed the demo but disappointed in the final game, Sure it was more fluid this feels robotic like PES 2011. Thinking to myself where on earth did WENB get their 9 from?

Should i get rid of it for the PS3 version, any issues with that?

feeling the same as you really, i thought the 2nd demo was great on 360, not feeling this much to be honest. i was tempted by forza 4 but the pes fan within me said no.

 

[pellandi]

PS3....I been playing pes since pes 1...loved all pes games on ps2. In the beginning on ps3 it wasnt the same, but i still played them and enojoyed it, except 2010 cause that was terrible. I fall in love with 2011, and really thought 2012 would be great

Im really disappointed at 2012...some things are better, but so much are terrible. I just been playing it for 1 day so i cant be 100% sure, maybe i change my mind.

this is my opinion, i know a lot of it is just what i prefer, and maybe not really bad things for other people.

THE PASSING was awesome in 2011, u could always get the pass to the player u wanted to pass, long and short. On this game they got the assistance bar, but none are good...its too assistant or too manual(I guess for those that want it very manual its good). No power at all on the through balls, dont know why, just soo weird in my opinion.

TACKLES AND CONTACT PLAY. Im a huge fan of premier league and i love tough and hard play. On 2011 u could have great games with a lot of tough play and great tackles(a lil bit too much sometimes i must admit), and it was really fun. Like when u was gonna play against a friend and u got wolves and he got a stronger teamlike chealsea, u could choose a defensive style and and play really tough. On 2012 the tackles SUCKS, takes forever to make a tackle. And its too much freekicks..he blows in every contact situation, and the players miss the ball too easy when they just can intercept it easy. I know u can be more passive using R2 and it wont be so much freekicks, but thats not how i like it, i wanna put pressure on the opponent but cant do that, always freekick.

SHOOTING. I dont like it. It wasnt great in 2011, but pretty good. Now it feels too automatic, and sometimes u can run totally under no pressure and get pretty much power on the bar, but still it will be a terrible soft shot, even with a good player.

KEEPERS sucks

I will give it some more time and hopefully it will get better. If no, its not a disaster cause i still love playing 2011

 

[sincover]

The game in terms of gameplay is excellent this year, but still has that inconsistency problem that has been in all PES games this gen. We miss the "complete package and perfectly balanced game" feelings from the old days, that's the reason why the same person on these boards first says he loves it, then says he hates it, then he says he loves it again. It's actually how the game is, it's not a consistent experience, it can be awesome, it can be "bizarre".

One of the reasons I've been playing mostly BAL in this year's PES, somehow, it's so much less prone to these sort of things. It's fantastic this year really, those who're not too happy with the game in exhibition modes should try it.

Spot fucking on mate. This is the main reason why people complain. One of the key elements of game design (from a game design theory stand point) is meaningful play. Meaningful play can only be achieved when the player receives consistent feedback based on the rules established by the game. Any inconsistency in that feedback ultimately leads to frustration. This is one of the first things taught to programmers and designers when they start making interactive software.

 

[iluvnineties]

Can someone with TECHNICAL skills tell me what COULD be the reason why KONAMI went downhill with PES on next gen and fucked up the fine sim gameplay? I'm trying to put things together but it just makes no sense. Why fix and break something that's already defined and mastered. All Konami should of done is:

Improve graphics which they did and it mudt be evident in next gen consoles.
Get better commentary
More licenses
Next gen animations
Better presentation/marketing.

And that's it. I would of NEVER imagined they would release such a poor game.(PES08). Did Seabass ever comment about PeS2008?

 

[pretty]

Yes he commented and basically said they didn't have the resources for multi platform on next gen.

Pes 6 on 360 wasn't too bad to be fair apart from adriano.

Anyway here's abit more about that shocking pes version which was so unfinished, i couldnt believe it when i bought a ps3 for that game
http://www.psu.com/Seabass--We-thought-about-delaying-PES-2008--a001941-p0.php

 

[iluvnineties]

Then why release such a crappy game in the first place? If you're not ready to do something why do it in the first place
Good thing I have WE9Le otherwise I would probably play SWOS instead.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Blimey people aren't happy. I'm really not sure about it, I loved demo 2 but the final game feels less enjoyable. The constant hounding from AI defenders and stumble animation are literally ruining it so far.

I said it before but WHY do Konami remove the stumble animation, replace it with a wonderful gameplay element where skilful players with high technique can glide over such challenges in such a graceful, organic manner, then think to themselves "you know what, fuck it, let's take that out and put the old animation back in that everyone complained about". Complete madness.

Turned the game off earlier when I struggled all game, only for Van Der Vaart to break clear of the last man with a deft bit of skill, only for that defender to sprint, make up the ground on him, simply run into the back of him, and make off with the ball while Van Der Vaart was busy doing some protracted stumble which removed all control from me. And that was my reward for doing something skilful. I'm seeing this animation more than in PES2011, which I'm currently enjoying more than this. At least the play in that doesn't zip along at 200mph.

I want demo 2 back!

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

What's more, I NEVER thought I'd say this especially after PES2011 but with a few slider tweaks, I'm finding more individuality in FIFA12. Not in terms of first touch, which is not as pronounced player to player as it is in PES by far, but dribbling, defensive ability, and most notably, passing, sliders allow FIFA to have a much bigger variant from player to player.

Xavi, for example, is worth having in FIFA because his passing is so much better and more reliable if you increase the pass error slider. The same player in PES feels a bit pointless so far, most players feel like they have the exact same passing ability. Which sucks. There is individuality in PES, but it feels like the differences were more pronounced in PES2011, which isn't right. I'm sure others will disagree though, maybe I just haven't given the game enough time. Demo 2 feels like it was majorly dumbed down for the final release though.

 

[sincover]

Blimey people aren't happy. I'm really not sure about it, I loved demo 2 but the final game feels less enjoyable. The constant hounding from AI defenders and stumble animation are literally ruining it so far.

I said it before but WHY do Konami remove the stumble animation, replace it with a wonderful gameplay element where skilful players with high technique can glide over such challenges in such a graceful, organic manner, then think to themselves "you know what, fuck it, let's take that out and put the old animation back in that everyone complained about". Complete madness.

Turned the game off earlier when I struggled all game, only for Van Der Vaart to break clear of the last man with a deft bit of skill, only for that defender to sprint, make up the ground on him, simply run into the back of him, and make off with the ball while Van Der Vaart was busy doing some protracted stumble which removed all control from me. And that was my reward for doing something skilful. I'm seeing this animation more than in PES2011, which I'm currently enjoying more than this. At least the play in that doesn't zip along at 200mph.

I want demo 2 back!

I was having this problem until I learnt a trick from the CPU. When you are being hounded, Let go of the L-Stick and press R2, this will cause your player to stop suddenly and there will be a brief period where the CPU has to change direction. At that point press R2 + R1 together with the L-Stick to burst into the space created.

 

[Ameppe]

Once more Konami shows this generation they are unreliable
who said them to change some parts of the game like manual crossing, making default passing more assisted, giving the game the speed superstar players treatment, making shooting and crossing so automated?
i don't know which fans they are listening to, but i think most of us just wanted a better, fixed and more responsive pes 2011

my faith in Konami was beginning to be regained from pes 2010 to pes 2011, but now the passage from pes 2011 to pes 2012 gives no significant improvement over the previous title.
Pes 2012 is better in some elements compared to pes 2011, but pes 2011 overall was more balanced

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Blimey people aren't happy. I'm really not sure about it, I loved demo 2 but the final game feels less enjoyable. The constant hounding from AI defenders and stumble animation are literally ruining it so far.

I said it before but WHY do Konami remove the stumble animation, replace it with a wonderful gameplay element where skilful players with high technique can glide over such challenges in such a graceful, organic manner, then think to themselves "you know what, fuck it, let's take that out and put the old animation back in that everyone complained about". Complete madness.

Turned the game off earlier when I struggled all game, only for Van Der Vaart to break clear of the last man with a deft bit of skill, only for that defender to sprint, make up the ground on him, simply run into the back of him, and make off with the ball while Van Der Vaart was busy doing some protracted stumble which removed all control from me. And that was my reward for doing something skilful. I'm seeing this animation more than in PES2011, which I'm currently enjoying more than this. At least the play in that doesn't zip along at 200mph.

I want demo 2 back!

I reloaded demo 2 tonight, SO SO much better! Just feels alot more fluid the final game seems to have gone back to it's robotic ways and that stumble animation i agree is ruining things.

Why did no reviews pick up on the difference between preview/demo gameplay and the final game

 

[Daytripper]

well spent a good few hours with this and with all respect to wenb, i cant agree with their review of 9/10. it doesnt feel as good as the demo and i maybe going a bit barmy but some of the player individuality seems to be gone amiss.

i love pro evo for what it has give me over the years but part of me is growing tired of it and football games in general.

 

[pretty]

I just tried the demo of fifa 12 again and my god is pro evo much better, although to be fair the full game of fifa was better than the demo.

Either way something with fifa just doesn't feel right, only pro evo gives you that special feeling when you score or have a near miss....

Pro evo is getting better the more i play it, i think some people forget what it was like in the ps2 days with everyone moaning at first then enjoying the games, granted most of the next gen pro evos have been pure shit, but i feel this years is back to pes of old where it takes time to get used to it.

With the player individuality i did think it wasn't as obvious until i played with corinthians and my god does roberto carlos and ronaldo feel so different to anyone else.

At times though this game is the best footie game ever and other times i think its a big pile of shit lol

 

[iluvnineties]

I also enjoyed DEMO 2 to a certain degree but KONAMI simply ruined many important aspects in the final code, consumer version.

Can anyone reach to that clown Seabass and put some sense in his thick scull ? I mean, he is not the president.

It pisses me off when KONAMI announces something like "we listened to the fans" ....WHAT ON EARTH FANS ?? you stupid fucks.

I don't care about animations to be honest but give me a good fucking gameplay for once. They said once they start building on next gen things will even improve and look at where were now.

There are people that actually like the game I have to respect that but more and more and more people find this game a complete JOKE. I see it on every forum ...

Guys who used to be fans are not fans anymore. KONAMI thank you for good years in the 90's and early-mid 2000 but you deserve to be put out of business by EA.

Seabass needs to go. Hire someone else. BLOW IT UP. Its time for a change.

 

[Lami]

It still doesn't have important licensing deals (like the Premier League)

So the UEFA Champions League, Europa League, Copa Libertadores, Serie A, Liga BBVA, Ligue 1, don't mean nothing to you? I'm sorry but ignoring all that and only classifying the BPL as "important" is ignorant. Most of the big licenses are in, apart from the BPL and Bundesliga, which are exclusive to EA until the contract runs out.

Everything in life comes to an end, even life itself. The end of PES is coming too. You might troll me for this, but its the same feeling deep down in your gut you know it too. Enjoy whatevers left of Konami and if you have PES5/We9Le and other PS2 titles. Seabass will also realize this and will retire from PES too.

We've been hearing this since 2008 now, and as far as I know, the franchise is still selling by the bucket-load.

Stop exaggerating.

Sorry to bump but pretty pretty please with sugar on top;


IS the ML still 2 divions? Cant figure it out
Want to start D2 with lower tier European teams and D1 with all big teams...IS it editable like recent years?

Yes it is mate.

@ iluvnineties

I kind of agree with what you are saying. PES is in the doldrums both as a game, and in the public conscience, which is really sad given the proud history of the ISS & PES series. I do wonder how they can ever get back to the days when PES was considered the undisputed number one football game. FIFA has improved markedly in all areas, pushing the tech boundaries for football games, while retaining it's licensing stronghold. It moves and animates smoothly and realistically, looks great, sounds great, works well online and has loads of licences and content. The all-important gameplay is the only area slightly lacking for me, but even so you could say it's the all-round product.

Having said that, PES2012 is the best PES game on this gen (not hard really) and the series is moving forward, just nowhere near as quickly as it should be. In many ways PES2012 is still a PS2 game underneath, no matter what anyone says about engine re-writes. Animations are simply not good enough, and look jarring all too often, with a lack of variety. PES5 had a much bigger variety of animations, particularly player-specific, which is a sad state of affairs. Collision detection is another area still in the PS2 age. While FIFA's impact engine is not perfect, it is at least what I expect of a football game in 2011. Ball physics still don't feel 100% free, and a little pre-ordained in places.

I'm not trying to put a downer on PES2012 as it's a fine football game, with great AI, and still maintains the sense of player individuality the series is known for. It's a refined PES2011, nothing more. Which is all I was expecting from Konami given their track record. But I can't lie, PES2012 is so far behind where I thought we would be six years on from PES5. It still feels like the same game, using the same tech and engine. Not a bad thing, but not what I was hoping for. The fact is some parts of the game are still not as good as six years ago.

I've seen enough to know that PES2012 will be keeping me entertained for many months, and with the lack of choice in the football game market I should be grateful for that.

Also, we should remember that while PES is given short-shrift in the UK, US and many other European countries, in other parts of the world the game is still king and outsells FIFA comfortably. I think the best thing Konami can do is keep refining what they've got for the next couple of years but in the background make a real concerted effort to push the boundaries and hit the PS4 & NeXtBox with a bang.

I don't agree with everything iluvnineties say and specially the way he exaggerates things, but I do agree with almost everything you've said there. I think Konami shouldn't take Seabass for granted, and give him all the love and toys he needs to create the genius game he wants.

anyone who thinks EA's title is a true soccer sim, is a complete moron.

Good post overall, but this part was unnecessary. Just let people have their game of choice and call it what thy want.

Hmm. I'm not really sure where I'm at with PES 2012. At times it plays beautifully - better than any football game I've ever played but oh my GOD the flaws are just unbelievable at times. Have to admit I expected better considering how good it was a few months ago - it feels that it's barely gone forward and even gone backwards in some areas.

Gameplay wise it's my football game of choice this year but that isn't saying much. Gameplay wise it's about... 70% really good, 10% OK and 20% fucking awful.

There's something that has been annoying me for a while now. I remember one of the reasons I liked the code I played back in August was because the cpu committed themselves to a tackle, compared to 2011 where they would follow you like your shadow without momentum. Now in the full game, I feel it's back to that, and I'm not liking it. Sometimes they do commit, and you can wrong foot them, but many a time they just shadow you with no weight. For example, when having a throw-in near the opposition's box, try moving another player in the box with R3, watch how the cpu shadows you weightless. You simply cannot get away from them!

Then why release such a crappy game in the first place? If you're not ready to do something why do it in the first place
Good thing I have WE9Le otherwise I would probably play SWOS instead.

Because it is business. Game is a cash-cow to Konami. Seabass takes orders to do whatever he can with limited resources and release the game on time. If you can't enjoy the game, go back to WE9LE or SWOS. Simple. You've been ranting about this for ages now and sound like a broken record now.

I also enjoyed DEMO 2 to a certain degree but KONAMI simply ruined many important aspects in the final code, consumer version.

Can anyone reach to that clown Seabass and put some sense in his thick scull ? I mean, he is not the president.

It pisses me off when KONAMI announces something like "we listened to the fans" ....WHAT ON EARTH FANS ?? you stupid fucks.

I don't care about animations to be honest but give me a good fucking gameplay for once. They said once they start building on next gen things will even improve and look at where were now.

There are people that actually like the game I have to respect that but more and more and more people find this game a complete JOKE. I see it on every forum ...

Guys who used to be fans are not fans anymore. KONAMI thank you for good years in the 90's and early-mid 2000 but you deserve to be put out of business by EA.

Seabass needs to go. Hire someone else. BLOW IT UP. Its time for a change.

Is that all you can come up with? Resorting to childishness thinking you're talking common sense? Resorting to statements like "Seabass needs to go" and "that clown Seabass and put some sense in his thick scull" and "you stupid fucks" don't exactly make a healthy discussion and make any sense. You appreciate what he has done for the PS1 and PS2 but then you go ape-shit against him and want his head. Has it ever occurred to you that Seabass take orders from above? He said a few times he needs more time and even mentioned in his last interview that they needed more time to understand the PS3 to take advantage of it's potential. But does that mean the guys above will give him years to perfect the football game he loves? No. To them, it's a cash-cow. Think they could care less about us apart from the cha-ching in our pockets.

Think of Seabass and his team for a minute vs his greedy boss. Think of how they transitioned into a new console and haven't had enough time and resources to fully take advantage of it. Compare their team with EA's fgs. No wonder it took them ages to try and understand PS3's system. EA have been preparing for next-gen. They had and poured enough resources to make sure they impress. Konami, not Seabass, probably thought leaving the game in its state, the PS2 state since it was successful, was a brilliant idea. You the how the saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it. As for Seabass, I'm pretty sure if it was up to him, he would've loved some of that EA treatment. He even said it himself, that he would love to get his genius fingers on EA's tech and resources. Cut the guy some slack will ya. I'm not saying he's done nothing wrong though, I'm pretty sure he did at some point. We all make wrong decisions. But what I'm saying is that he should get more respect from all of us for what he's done, and what he still tries to do with what limited resources under his palms.

If we demand change, it should be Konami's policy towards their PES franchise. We should demand much more resources given to Seabass and co, given the man's proven genius work.

Imho, the man is nothing short of a genius. I'm pretty positive of it. Sometimes I think he should quit Konami and join EA, ONLY if he's given freedom to work on it without orders of "catering to the casual masses first and foremost". Frigging hell, if I had the "sheikh money" to create a football game, I'd do all it takes to hire him and give him all the toys he needs.