PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Ummmm... when I try to install the game to the HD, it just sits there on 0% with nothing happening. How long's it supposed to take?
 
gerd said:
Fully concentrating yourself on sex...that sounds serious...
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meh, shes just really good in bed.

This body improvement thing and my uni work is just so much more important, no i don't mean fitness i mean discovering our true potential which will come vital in this period of time for everyone.

The patches i make take time, and i just see little point if nobody hardly is going to use my patches.

There's other stuff i won't mention.
 
'll start with Konami's Pro Evolution Soccer 2012. Jesus. What a mess this series has become. Once a brutal simulation of the real thing, the game's declining sales and ageing technology have left its developers clutching at straws, slapping things on and yanking other things around in an aimless attempt to stay relevant.

With a ping pong passing mechanic, a ball that rolls like a balloon and shoots like a wet paper bag and player animation that looks little better than the PS2 days I got the strangest feeling playing Pro Evo 2012. I wasn't playing a Pro Evo game any more. I was playing Virtua Striker 2012, a stiff, arcade representation of football that's about as enjoyable as playing the real thing with a stick up your ass and a twenty pound ball.

It still doesn't have important licensing deals (like the Premier League), still has characters who open their mouths like South Park's Terrence & Phillip and still has some of the worst sports game commentary of all time. By all rights, this should have been the year Pro Evolution was finally and mercifully branded irrelevant and consigned to the touchline.

This man is right, and he is right with FIFA too in this article, open your eyes fanboys.
 
Hey anybody?
IS the ML still 2 divions? CCant figure it out
Want to start D2 with lower tier European teams and D1 with all big teams...IS it editable like recent years?
 
For me, it's

Demo 1>Demo 2>Full Game

Played about 10 matches with America (used to them from the demo), and the computer just goes through your back making your player do that trip animation - IT'S BACK! And the ref doesn't care a jot.

It's just an AI copout and a real disappointment... You can't tackle from behind in real life, you shouldnt be able to on PES.

This basically leaves you unable to take your time, even when you win space you have one touch before the computer gets up your ass with the ref on it's side.

I preferred the demo for PES 2011 and now it's the same for PES 2012. I'll persevere and hopefully get a couple of months out of it like I did last year before selling it.

If Konami don't get their asses in gear, FIFA will monopolise the market. The reviews are already tipped in their favour, online has improved and I genuinely think that with the price it costs to make games these days that there ain't room for the both of them.

Very disappointing.

Become a Legend was ok but no real different from the past games which I've already caned and mastered. Cutscenes and irrelevance all over the shop this time out though.


WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS SERIES?!!?!

PS I love PES but when the demo is better than the final game 2 years in a row it's a real pisser.
 
Miro said:
'll start with Konami's Pro Evolution Soccer 2012. Jesus. What a mess this series has become. Once a brutal simulation of the real thing, the game's declining sales and ageing technology have left its developers clutching at straws, slapping things on and yanking other things around in an aimless attempt to stay relevant.

With a ping pong passing mechanic, a ball that rolls like a balloon and shoots like a wet paper bag and player animation that looks little better than the PS2 days I got the strangest feeling playing Pro Evo 2012. I wasn't playing a Pro Evo game any more. I was playing Virtua Striker 2012, a stiff, arcade representation of football that's about as enjoyable as playing the real thing with a stick up your ass and a twenty pound ball.

It still doesn't have important licensing deals (like the Premier League), still has characters who open their mouths like South Park's Terrence & Phillip and still has some of the worst sports game commentary of all time. By all rights, this should have been the year Pro Evolution was finally and mercifully branded irrelevant and consigned to the touchline.

This man is right, and he is right with FIFA too in this article, open your eyes fanboys.
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ZZZZZZZzzzzz whatever.
 
klashman69 said:
i'm going to really charge at these idiot reviewers! I just sent a message to that guy on facebook. I'm sorry, it annoys me, i bust my ass making these tactics for everyone, making stadiums, etc... and these fucking prick reviwers tell the masses the game is arcadey STAY AWAY! So people who could enjoy the game will not fucking use them.

yes, i am being a tart, i am feeling sorry for myself, i am totally being irrational but why the fuck do i bother with these tactics? Why do i bother editing.

What should i edit PES 6 or 5 instead like i tried to do this summer and it hopelessly failed since those games are very, VERY limited compared to the new ones? Stuck on rails! You can't make teams play possesion football or hoof it! The CPU just sit back and counter all the time, every team not to mention the superman cheating on rails!

I feeling like i just concentrating fully on my course, work and sex. Also i need to go back to developing my body like i was this summer. Don't worry i'm not stressed, but i don't feel as happy and as glowing as i was this summer when i was understading life. I come back here and i see a mountain of ignorance and crap. People just trying to spoil fun for others. I've stopped my negative comments of FIFA for GOOD, i'm not going to put people off that game!

If you stop playing football games because you think PES and FIFA are shit and arcadey, well then it's you stuoidtiy and your loss. But stop being negative beacuse it's 'cool', acting like a sheep.
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I replied to him too. His opinions afford more to hyperbole than a decent critique of the games merits in relation to realism but i kept my cool and informed him that he should try -2 settings and zero pass assistance. I even went as far to empathise with his points if they are based on the default settings.

Also there's nothing more annoying than all the comments about loving the old PES games. You and I and any sane person knows that PES 2012 achieves much more by way of realism than the old games ever did. They were just more complete packages and probably (like in the case of me and PES 5) were played at an age were you had nothing better to do than play football games all day so obviously the nostalgia goggles are on.

'I have been a hardcore fan ( ok fanboy ) of the Pro series since it first came out.

My favorite installment was the '98 one with the great Nigeria team and the "I can outrun a Ferrari" Ronaldo ( The real Ronaldo not the crybaby hair freak ).

With their recent years' attempts Konami have made me and other old timers give up football gaming all together.'

That's one comment. People like that baffle me. He is essentially saying he loved the arcadey style of a specific game but apparently now they can't cut the mustard. Just seems to me that people don't even know what they want with football games anymore. They know PES isn't supposed to be good so they take that notion and run with it because they don't have to form their own opinion because they don't know what they want in sports games. No doubt something pick up and play worthy with depth and in that order. That seems to be quite a paradox now with the evolution of sports games.
 
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Miro said:
This man is right, and he is right with FIFA too in this article, open your eyes fanboys.
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So what should i do. All the tactics work i do is useless then. the game is too arcadey? I mean, when i give Barcelona these settings and me and others have discussions over it, when they dominate with 60 odd possession and put together these mad passing moves, that's just me living in dreamworld.

When i show a video of it, it's not real it's another game?

I mean really? Why do i bother! Really? why?

if you want to be 'cool' and criticize. fine, go on! If you don't want to at least try to see what i see and see if you can enjoy the game and instead be politically correct with some fool who tried the game for 5 minutes on the default settings. Go on, let him spoil the fun for you.

Konami might as well never make another football game, they can do no right, isn't it, "Animations have bugs". but what football game dosen't have bugs in the animations considering it's still primitive 2005/2006 technology (built for xbox and ps3)! Oh wait... yes, start paying reviewers and put adverts on their sites and in their mags and get good reviews. maybe then, just maybe :)
 
Hey anybody?
IS the ML still 2 divions? CCant figure it out
Want to start D2 with lower tier European teams and D1 with all big teams...IS it editable like recent years?
 
Definitely going to stick to Jenkey's removal of the AI scripting. 2-0 up against Madrid, 90th minute and Ronaldo scores a free kick from 30-odd yards out. Kick off, Higuain acts like Usain Bolt to intercept a ball, runs through two of my players with ridiculous ease and scores from 20 yards out.

Unbelievable.
 
DagsJT said:
Definitely going to stick to Jenkey's removal of the AI scripting. 2-0 up against Madrid, 90th minute and Ronaldo scores a free kick from 30-odd yards out. Kick off, Higuain acts like Usain Bolt to intercept a ball, runs through two of my players with ridiculous ease and scores from 20 yards out.

Unbelievable.
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Yeah i tried to put that on but couldn't get it to work with Yair's update. I think it only works with the default .exe but i seem to have deleted that after copypasting Yair's .exe over.
 
Unrelated to the general direction this topic goes but does L2 dribbling make the player in possession animate differently?

I can't tell whether it's a placebo effect or not but i seem to ride more tackles and turn player better when holding L2 to dribble, even better than R2.

The only other thing i can think of is holding both the button and dribbling with the left stick on it's own gives me some sort of sense of stability when i'm in control.
 
First impressions.
The game, (offline) is better than the demos, but play very similar, with the AI still being very attack minded. So far i have only played a few exhibition matches and was beaten on regular twice. Online, is so different, especially with the cam angle and the speeeed. Nevermind pass assistance filters, what we need are online speed filters. It felt kinda good though, being involved in my first game: a 4-4 draw with extra time and penalties, which went all the way to 7-6 to him. It's like playing a totally different game, with bits of 2011 thrown in - with added responsiveness. Slow it down a bit and zoom out the Broadcasting angle and i will enjoy this i reckon.
 
Three first games, on Professional. 15 minutes. Speed -1.

Sweden (me) against England 2-3

Basically, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. It seemed too fast at times, but just right at others. Rooney was a beast, defending was all about conceding way too many fouls and not getting close to the CPU attackers when they stormed through my defense. Was always going to be an uphill battle. So...

Spain (me) against Ireland 1-3

Right, this is when I started to wonder what kind of game this is. 18 minutes in and I'm 0-3 down. As Spain. Against Ireland. Rest of the game was pretty much a waste, couldnt't get a proper attacking game going at all.

Portugal (me) against Denmark 4-3
So the first win, thanks to you-know-who being an absolute monster, plowing through the danes with a couple of goals and an assist to boot. This was also the first game where I enjoyed the defending, especially when completely shutting down that fool Bendtner for the entire game. Got a bit dramatic near the end too when Denmark scored to make it 3-3. But with only a few minutes left, Almeida was tripped in the penalty area, so you-know-who made it 4-3.

I never played any of the demos, so right now I'm not sure what to think. I like the new more difficult passing (I'm playing with one bar assistance now), I like that the CPU actually plays football. Not sure about the speed though, or how dominant the CPU is from time to time. Haven't really found that PES flow to my play yet either. Hopefully it'll come to me.
 
More impressions

You know one thing the AI needs to stop doing is shooting as soon as they receieve the ball in the box. They can receive a pass and be facing away from goal but will generally always opt to shoot rather than take a first touch and hope to get in a better position. Sometimes it's down right odd because if they just took a touch, you know a normal thing to do when trying to control a ball in space, then they would probably get a shot on target, if not definitely score. This happened on PES 2011 too.

Also another thing i've noticed is that the AI seems pretty poor at dealing with through balls. Rather than back away towards goal as the ball comes in they are too attacking and attempt to run forward to collect the ball. If they miss it then your player generally gets a free run to goal, in the case of the last defender doing it. I've played 3 games and that happened in 2 of them (Professional difficulty). I've scored both times.

I tell you what is subtle and great. Strength and hold off play. It can be a little difficult to judge it at first because unlike Fifa it's automated and doesn't require holding a button. Case in point Pennant puts a long ball over the top to Penguin Jones (according to the Spanish commentary) who proceeds to hold off the last defender, who may or may not have done what i described in my second paragraph, for 10 yards and score from angle. I'll upload the video when i get home because it was nice.

I do feel player individuality. I had a game earlier with England and it was evident that Rooney was the best player on the team. His touches were like normal Fifa touches and he seemed a cut above the rest. He was generally quite absent in the match however which i lost 4-1 against Italy. Andy Carroll was just awful thankfully, slow and couldn't muster a shot on target. I was caught out by the speed of Pazzini about 10 times because both Terry and Cahill were too slow to catch him when Italy counter attacked. In Pes 2011, and even in the demos, fast players like Lennon were too good IMO. In my game Walcott was evidently fast enough to beat a man but not good enough to do much when he got past him. I quite liked that, felt like a battle on the right wing.

Player passing isn't individual at all, doesn't even feel stat related really. I can probably live with that that on 0 pass assistance though as i do make mistakes. Darren Bent was probably the best passer in the aforementioned England game.
 
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In terms of game speed, it makes a HUGE difference which teams you use. My first game was an all-French affair between Montpellier and Evian, and I was wondering "how did I ever think this game was too fast??" It was great on default speed, really really slow and patient.

A few games later, I tried some bigger teams - Roma v Juventus. Suddenly it was all going at 100mph again. However slowly I tried to play, it was like my players were straining at the leash, wanting to do everything at fast-forward speed. Not so much fun. I know Italian football is a bit faster than it used to be, but this made a Liverpool derby look like a testimonial game.

I'll be steering well clear of the big sides again this year, I think.
 
Pere Ubu said:
In terms of game speed, it makes a HUGE difference which teams you use. My first game was an all-French affair between Montpellier and Evian, and I was wondering "how did I ever think this game was too fast??" It was great on default speed, really really slow and patient.

A few games later, I tried some bigger teams - Roma v Juventus. Suddenly it was all going at 100mph again. However slowly I tried to play, it was like my players were straining at the leash, wanting to do everything at fast-forward speed. Not so much fun. I know Italian football is a bit faster than it used to be, but this made a Liverpool derby look like a testimonial game.

I'll be steering well clear of the big sides again this year, I think.
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I thought this might be the case offline. No one will want to play online games with the lower teams though. Should be a filter for that as well.
 
Regarding the stumble animation and situation...i don't know if i imagined it or not, but i could have sworn in both demo',s with smaller players like Modric or Lennon i was riding tackles and keeping the ball, now it just feels like 2011 i'll stumble then get the ball stolen, when the cpu stumbles however it manages to retain possession. Is this all in my head?
 
I completely agree with what that article says about PES12 being poor. As I was expecting, people finally realize the truek colors of PES. I will GUARANTEE you something guys. If Konami continue this path, PES as we know it will end forever. Nobody even talks or cares about this game anymore. Sorry but the minority of PES fana globaly won't be able to save this franchise. KONAMI also know this and they know the bar is about to close, last call for the drinks. We have to accet what's coming up ahead. Everything in life comes to an end, even life itself. The end of PES is coming too. You might troll me for this, but its the same feeling deep down in your gut you know it too. Enjoy whatevers left of Konami and if you have PES5/We9Le and other PS2 titles. Seabass will also realize this and will retire from PES too.

One thing is for sure, Konami made my teenage years beautiful. I will never forget that.

I feel bad for new breed, new kids, future gamers who will never know what a true football sim is like, unless of course they do some digging and play PES from PS2 era.
 
DagsJT said:
Definitely going to stick to Jenkey's removal of the AI scripting. 2-0 up against Madrid, 90th minute and Ronaldo scores a free kick from 30-odd yards out. Kick off, Higuain acts like Usain Bolt to intercept a ball, runs through two of my players with ridiculous ease and scores from 20 yards out.

Unbelievable.
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That's not cheating, not cheating at all. There's a bug where at times you can't move the keeper for free kicks but if you had the chance to move him, you should of nudged him more to the center.

Also from the kick off. Just keep possession. The AI change tactics and become more aggressive. Seems like with the momentum and with such high stats Real went into god mode.

If a rubbish Division 2 team did that I'd understand however.

Cheating is when the CPU pump a cross in, it deflects about and lands at a crappy center back 20 yards out who volleys it in as if he's Gerrard! Or certain fouls not being given in the area against the CPU.
 
LTFC said:
Really enjoying the game but it still feels to frantic. I just want to be able to get my playmaker on the ball on the halfway line and let him put his foot on the ball, stop the play momentarily pick out a pass, but I can't. The AI seems relentless on hounding you down to the point where you can never, ever, stop moving. This is making the game feel to manic to me, and is different to the demo.

Swapping it in the shop later for the 360 version, tried using the 3D but man, it looks good but is a shocker for the eyes. The drop in framerate is starting to grate a bit too.

Does anyone know if you can actually ever just stop, shield the ball, and take your time in this? The AI on Professional seems to just run in and relentlessly try to take the ball if you so much as hesitate with your movement. Need help! :)
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There are several solutions available..
The first and most easy is to reduce the pressing of the opposing team to a value of 4-6 in the sliders tactics.

This action tunes down opponent team pressure and you have more time to build the game.

If you're not too demanding, this can already be fine...

Then to play in a realistic way more editing is needed and basically you have to tune and tweak some of the players stats.
If you play on PC version you can already find (the editing forum section) ready solutions good enough to start to play a decent football.
Otherwise if you are a hardcore gamer (like me), the path is much longer and tiring...

But this is another additional issue concerning the possibility to modify PES 2012 gameplay taking it from an arcade game (i personally do not know how to define it better now) to a realistic football simulation ...
 
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klashman69 said:
That's not cheating, not cheating at all. There's a bug where at times you can't move the keeper for free kicks but if you had the chance to move him, you should of nudged him more to the center.

Also from the kick off. Just keep possession. The AI change tactics and become more aggressive. Seems like with the momentum and with such high stats Real went into god mode.

If a rubbish Division 2 team did that I'd understand however.

Cheating is when the CPU pump a cross in, it deflects about and lands at a crappy center back 20 yards out who volleys it in as if he's Gerrard! Or certain fouls not being given in the area against the CPU.
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The ball went into the centre of the goal anyway. It was clearly going on wherever I moved the keeper.

And I wasn't exactly going on the attack in the 91st minute. I passed the ball around knowing that, in any normal situation, no Madrid player would come close to getting near it. So I tried to kill time. But nope, Higuain rocketed on like I've never seen a player move before and collected the ball. That would NEVER have happened at any point beforehand, but just happens to occur right after they score in the 91st minute and have 1 minute to get the equaliser.

Not having that. Way too convenient and regardless of how much people want to take blame and criticism from PES, that was blatant cheating in my book and nothing else.
 
DagsJT said:
The ball went into the centre of the goal anyway. It was clearly going on wherever I moved the keeper.
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It should stop them from scoring so much when you move him, the keeper tends to do really well when you move him just a bit, centrally. Can't remember the last time the CPU scored a free kick

anyway that ratfaced piece of shit scored a free kick in the last time a few days ago. Someone with hi ratings that's expected really.

And I wasn't exactly going on the attack in the 91st minute. I passed the ball around knowing that, in any normal situation, no Madrid player would come close to getting near it. So I tried to kill time. But nope, Higuain rocketed on like I've never seen a player move before and collected the ball. That would NEVER have happened at any point beforehand, but just happens to occur right after they score in the 91st minute and have 1 minute to get the equaliser.
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Nah, you had the ball, you had many passing opportunities to keep hold of it. I really don't believe that is cheating. Just a very high rated team hungry to score. the CPU would have changed their tactics and mentality to be more aggressive. The goal would of got their tails up.

I think this is bad feedback to call this cheating. Seriously, when Nicolas Burdisso scores a perfect volley from 20 yards after deflections and Roma are playing like gods on steroids. i totally understand and that's unnecessary. THAT;S cheating! There is cheating on the game, but let's properly identify it rather than get angry with losing a lead in the last minute. I mean But in the last mintues you should be able to keep a lead.

Not having that. Way too convenient and regardless of how much people want to take blame and criticism from PES, that was blatant cheating in my book and nothing else.
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I agree there is cheating, that certainly wasn't at all!

trust me it's when center backs start doing overhead kicks an left backs start taking balls down like Zidane (happened qute a bit on -1 speed) you know the game is cheating. Not scoring two harsh late goals.
 
dannyfc2 said:
That fucking stumble animation.

WHY
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Yep. That stumble animation wasn't in the demo surely. I never saw it. That awesome animation where you'd stumble past a tackle but retain the ball seems to have been taken out too. Why? It had nothing but praise. But that animation is happening 99% of the time I try to beat the full back with Aaron Lennon. Really annoying. I genuinely think some people at Konami are insane.

And Klash, if the changing the tactics etc mean you get a better experience for yourself with the game then why give that up? Don't deny yourself some good fun because of some asshole reviewer in Internet land. They're ten a penny.
 
iluvnineties said:
Nobody even talks or cares about this game
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That's why there are still a heap of PES fansites and forums, the PES leagues, millions of ML Online players, and a huge option file and gameplay editing community. And even you, yourself, keep talking about it.

But apart from that the franchise is apparently on it's way out.....

I really do despair sometimes.
 
iluvnineties said:
Nobody even talks or cares about this game anymore.
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LTFC said:
That's why there are still a heap of PES fansites and forums, the PES leagues, millions of ML Online players, and a huge option file and gameplay editing community. And even you, yourself, keep talking about it.
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I think iluvnineties meant the non-fans, people who don't visit PES forums and websites, who don't sit waiting for each October as if it's grown-up Christmas as we do.

I love PES2012. It's extraordinary how the game opens up after a few days, just the way the old games did. I feel really good things about this PES. But the old days when PES had a broader presence in the public mind are gone. I think that's what he meant.

It's a debatable point as to whether he's right. Just 6 years ago, I worked in an office where all the casual gamers knew about PES. They had all played and could talk about the latest version even if they didn't like it (most didn't).

Nowadays, working in a similar office with a similar demographic and cross-section of gamers?

I'm the only one left.

Of those who even still play football games, FIFA is the game of choice. It's first on the shelf, it's got the licenses. Only the most stubborn among us would deny that its gameplay has improved.

PES has been weirdly sidelined in the mass consciousness over the last few years, and we've got one thing to blame. One thing that started the ball rolling:

PES2008: The Phantom Menace.
 
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