PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Keith Houchen said:
IMO, that kind of tribalistic, reflexive auto-loathing of the other game, regardless of its actual qualities, has actually contributed to the ongoing decline of PES in this generation.
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I agree, mate - if you look at my post, I'm not saying FIFA is the first choice for kids and casuals because it's a game for kids and casuals, I'm saying it's because they've got the licenses and the brand name and the swish presentation. What casual buyer would choose PES over that? FIFA 12 is a far more sophisticated game than the earlier versions, and does a lot of things very well. My point is that FIFA already has the casual market in their pocket, and now this sophistication - which I still think is mostly skin-deep - also gives the impression of a "simulation", especially when added to the slower pace and all the cosmetic stuff. Whereas PES' sped-up thrash gives the impression of "arcade", which adds to the general impression of this game as a sort of cut-price poor relation. So now FIFA seems to be winning both battles, in the minds of the average football gamer.

If Konami don't want to be totally left behind, they need to decide what they want PES to be, and concentrate on doing that to the best of their abilities. And the truth is, they simply can't compete with EA on any level except depth of gameplay. This year they've effectively compromised the depth of their gameplay - that might just be a matter of poor fine-tuning, but I suspect it's actually a misguided attempt to win converts from FIFA. It's not going to work, and it's a terrible idea in terms of the future of the series. It also comes close to spoiling PES 2012, which is at root an absolutely fantastic game.
 
What Pere Ubu said esp: 'Konami screwed up the fine-tuning...'

I just downloaded the new DLC (ps3) hoping that the goalkeepers might have improved. First game since - Abbiati lets in three criminal goals. In 2 cases he dived well after the ball has gone under, while in the other he stood there and let the ball whizz past his ear - another inch and he would have headed it clear. He looks like an old man.

I can manage the various and many other niggles, but having such poor goalkeepers brings a significant amount of random luck into the game. Just take a punt - the goalie will certainly screw-it-up.

How are others finding the goalies? Weren't they supposed to be fixed from the beta?

I saved the offending clips but there is still no in-game method of putting put goals on Youtube. This would also be an easy way for Konami to promote the game and maybe get some decent community spirit going. I want to gloat godammit!
 
jaboy said:
What Pere Ubu said esp: 'Konami screwed up the fine-tuning...'

I just downloaded the new DLC (ps3) hoping that the goalkeepers might have improved. First game since - Abbiati lets in three criminal goals. In 2 cases he dived well after the ball has gone under, while in the other he stood there and let the ball whizz past his ear - another inch and he would have headed it clear. He looks like an old man.

I can manage the various and many other niggles, but having such poor goalkeepers brings a significant amount of random luck into the game. Just take a punt - the goalie will certainly screw-it-up.

How are others finding the goalies? Weren't they supposed to be fixed from the beta?

I saved the offending clips but there is still no in-game method of putting put goals on Youtube. This would also be an easy way for Konami to promote the game and maybe get some decent community spirit going. I want to gloat godammit!
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DLC don't fix anything. Patches do.
 
Have you guys tried playing on 480p? The reason why i ask is we have been hearing for years now that PES is a totally different engine from the PS2 games from the likes of WENB and PESfan......

Well try this, Play either PES 5 or 6 then straight afterwards put PES 2012 on 480p (could be 576 on PS3) and see how close the games are as to me they are near IDENTICAL especially comparing it to PES 6 on PS2. It seems to be due to the much higher resolution that the engine was not designed for is why it feels very different.

Let us know what you guys think? :BYE:
 
Pere Ubu said:
Konami only have themselves to blame, for making the game speed so fast and silly and setting heavy pass assistance as default. If they'd wanted to sell the game as a sim, they should have handled this a lot better.

As it is, you play the game out of the box and it does look arcadey, certainly until you get the measure of it (from what I've heard, you go online and it's even more of a button-mashing thrash). Add that to poor graphics and unnatural animations and it's no surprise that reviewers - and casual players of the demo - come away with that impression.

I guess the logic was to create a game that was deep and rewarding for the hardcore, but frantic and "easy" enough on the surface that it would appeal to FIFA-playing kids. But the balance is wrong. Casual players are alienated already because they turn their noses up at bad animations and lack of licenses, and they certainly won't like the fact that if you defend casually you get arse-hammered 4-0 by the computer; hardcore sim players are irritated that you have to wrestle with the game (and change loads of settings) to get under the arcadey surface and make it play like a simulation.

Sure, most of us here can see the depth in this game, but that's because we want it to be there, and so we're actually looking for it. We take off passing assistance, tweak the preset tactics, play a far more patient game that the computer "wants" us to play... and hey presto, it comes alive. But even then, most of the complaints here and elsewhere can be traced back to those unrealistic elements which make this PES seem "arcadey" (sped-up player movements, direct attacking AI, oversimplified dribbling, the end-to-end nature of every game, the availability of super-easy passing assistance settings which can be used online). They're still there, getting in the way, whatever you do.

Either this game was meant to be a 100% simulation but Konami screwed up the fine-tuning, or else they deliberately dumbed down certain aspects to try and bring in very casual players. The result seems to have fallen between two stools.

They should just accept that FIFA will always, always, always be the first choice of kids and casuals - even if EA created a grindingly-slow flight-simulator of a game, that would still be the case because a.) it's got the licenses, b.) it's got the shiny tech, and c.) it's got the big brand name. The only reason to buy this quaint little Japanese competitor is to get something Konami can do well and EA can't: simulation play which takes football fundamentals into account. Pandering to this supposed glut of casual players who want "fun" over realism is a disastrous move for Konami, both because these people are not going to move to PES in significant numbers (even if they actually exist, which I'm not so sure of), and because PES is not and never has been the game for these people. What's more, they run the risk of alienating the core PES player, without whom Konami would be totally fucked.

I'm still enjoying the demo and I'm looking forward to the full game tomorrow, but I can absolutely see why some people are labelling PES2012 "arcadey". It's not some sort of conspiracy by reviewers to make people play FIFA. It's down to basic faults in how this game is balanced, and I hope Konami never make that mistake again - for their sake as well as mine.
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just look at last year reviews, many labelled pes 2011 as arcadey as well, so doesn't matter what Konami does, this generation Pes will be labelled as arcadey
i agree with you when you say Konami has to choose what they want from Pes, arcade or simulation?
When played as a simulation (-1 speed, no assistance) Pes 2012 is a really great game, when played as default it's more arcade
that's why i told (and someone agreed with me) to make 0 passing assistance and -1 default on online settings

Konami should not make Pes a Fifa copy, be original,should be brave enough to be a really hardcore game, not a mix between sim and arcade. Or at least it should give hardcore settings as default with some assistance for newcomers, but not online
Online Pes should be an hardcore simulation. No more 3 bars as default passing assistance, but 0

I just want to hope that Seabass "Pes 2013 will be very different" means it will finally be targeted mostly to hardcore gamers.
 
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Ameppe said:
just look at last year reviews, many labelled pes 2011 as arcadey as well, so doesn't matter what Konami does, this generation Pes will be labelled as arcadey
i agree with you when you say Konami has to choose what they want from Pes, arcade or simulation?
When played as a simulation (-1 speed, no assistance) Pes 2012 is a really great game, when played as default it's more arcade
that's why i told (and someone agreed with me) to make 0 passing assistance and -1 default on online settings

Konami should not make Pes a Fifa copy, be original,should be brave enough to be a really hardcore game, not a mix between sim and arcade. Or at least it should give hardcore settings as default with some assistance for newcomers, but not online
Online Pes should be an hardcore simulation. No more 3 bars as default passing assistance, but 0

I just want to hope that Seabass "Pes 2013 will be very different" means it will finally be targeted mostly to hardcore gamers.
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I dont think PES 2012 is a Fifa copy, it plays much more like PES of old than any Fifa.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
I dont think PES 2012 is a Fifa copy, it plays much more like PES of old than any Fifa.
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5 passing assistance settings,5 game speed settings, these are all things copied by Fifa
no more stealing Fifa ideas, but taking inspiration and improving on it just like they did with the "off the ball control"
that was really a great idea
So, Konami should focus on full manual setting, and not try to please everyone like Fifa does with hundreds settings.
 
Ameppe said:
5 passing assistance settings,5 game speed settings, these are all things copied by Fifa
no more stealing Fifa ideas, but taking inspiration and improving on it just like they did with the "off the ball control"
that was really a great idea
So, Konami should focus on full manual setting, and not try to please everyone like Fifa does with hundreds settings.
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But it was EA & Fifa who introduced manual to football games and you can play full manual in Fifa online and off so having manual in PES that's copying them also isnt it?
 
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I don't think having all these different settings is necessarily a bad thing. The issue here is what Pere Ubu pointed out as to how Konami present their game. For a reviewer, or casual player for that matter, when you 1st fire up the game, the defaults are set to the most casual, arcadey version. I'd say the vast, vast majority of these folks don't bother tweaking these items. I really think Konami/PES is having a bit of an identity crisis this gen. This game is great on 0 assistance, -2 speed and longer (25 min or more) game length. Embrace these strengths and put them front and center.
 
Simcut said:
^ anyone else sing the Goldie Looking Chain song to these words or was it just me? :D (Guns dont kill people, rappers do)
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I did. And then I went on to have relations with a fridge and do a rendition of Half Man Half Machine, which I always adapted to make it sound like a Stephen Hawking track.
 
Hey guys, not posted here in a while - hope you're all enjoying PES 2012! :)

I've been without a football game (or any other video game) since arriving at uni, and I have to say, I'm not missing it one bit - life at uni has been fantastic for me so far.

I'm probably going to be much less active on these forums for the forseeable future.
 
proxi said:
I did. And then I went on to have relations with a fridge and do a rendition of Half Man Half Machine, which I always adapted to make it sound like a Stephen Hawking track.
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He tries to sell himself, standing in Currys, but if the police turn up, he runs in a fucking hurry......
 
zeemeister said:
Oh ok you used to come here often then?!

Joke enjoy mate my University life became very serious around PES5 of all things and I played so little of that awesome game along with PES 6 but the latter wasnt that sorely missed to be hinest. Enjoy bud.
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Cheers :).

I may still get a few weeks of Pro Evo when I go home for Christmas/Easter/Summer, but to be honest I think it's done me good having no gaming - my childhood/teenage years have been largely wasted on video games :P.

unbornchikkenvoices said:
I hear ye....

I was there once. lots of new people and good lookin girls.. its so exiting.
but soon enough you will waste away days with your uni mates on 'Pro evo' tournies like I did with PES4/5 and Beer and Pizza and day time TV...

dont fight it
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Haha, I thought that might happen, but we have been doing a lot of other stuff so far.

We've even had pool parties in the living room, one of which, after a few drinking games, turned into girls wrestling in it :D.

klashman69 said:
I take it your sex life is good ;)
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A gentleman never tells ;)

:SMUG:
 
gomito#10 said:
dude go lite a spliff. grab a sixer of your favorite beer, get three mates and play this 2 v 2 and then come tell us you wont be playing 2012
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I can't play PES while drunk or high. Too much concentration needed!

It's the complete opposite with FIFA where the only time i play it is when I'm high or maybe drunk ;)
 
Ok the game is coming out tommorow, here...
I love Pro Evo, enjoyed the demos...also am enjoying fifa ...
Should i get PES2012? Is it worth it, please reply with a concise reason as to why i should buy it.
 
theopinion said:
Ok the game is coming out tommorow, here...
I love Pro Evo, enjoyed the demos...also am enjoying fifa ...
Should i get PES2012? Is it worth it, please reply with a concise reason as to why i should buy it.
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Nah. Play Fifa for a while until you get bored of it and then sell it and buy Pes (like christmas/january time). Your football gaming experience for this season will last longer that way. I did this in 2010, it was was great.

On the other hand, do what you want.
 
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Northzzz said:
Nah. Play Fifa for a while until you get bored of it and then sell it and buy Pes (like christmas/january time). Your football gaming experience for this season will last longer that way. I did this in 2010, it was was great.

On the other hand, do what you want.
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Yeah agree this way.. buy one, if you enjoy it.. play it until it lasts or get bored then get the other game for longer gaming experience :APPLAUD:
 
Lami said:
Yea that "bad early cross" needs to be toned down a bit imo.
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I made a video of it a couple of weeks ago and Jon Murphy has passed on the issue. Hopefully they fix it.

To the guy saying he wants more error in shooting - I've seen plenty of shots go just over or just wide, telling me there is enough error in shooting.

Give me a valid reason why you would be aiming for the corner flag and WANT it to go there? Unless you're complaining about there being no fully manual option, which is something Jon Murphy said will NOT be there for this year in his youtube response to questions a few months ago. You do realise the shooting has some level of assistance on it?
 
Anyone that has the full game, can you please answer this?

I made some kits, team badges and players in PES 2011 which are all saved on my Xbox' hard drive. With the import feature on PES 2012, will I be able to trade in my copy of PES 2011 and still be able to bring in any created teams/players and badges on a 1 by 1 selective basis by pointing to the hard drive where my PES 2011 files are stored?

I might get the game tonight as it's now out in Australia but I didn't want to just yet if I need to open up PES 2011 to copy anything across manually (I mean pen and paper! lol).
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Anyone that has the full game, can you please answer this?

I made some kits, team badges and players in PES 2011 which are all saved on my Xbox' hard drive. With the import feature on PES 2012, will I be able to trade in my copy of PES 2011 and still be able to bring in any created teams/players and badges on a 1 by 1 selective basis by pointing to the hard drive where my PES 2011 files are stored?

I might get the game tonight as it's now out in Australia but I didn't want to just yet if I need to open up PES 2011 to copy anything across manually (I mean pen and paper! lol).
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you can use the import function and all your created players, kits, badges etc. will be imported, but not 1 by 1, but all at once.
This feature is very usefull in 2012. within short term you will have a good base for finalizing editing of pes2012 !!! :)
 
Can I just ask why full pass assistance users get such a rough deal?

People complaining about users online using it, why? Did you not like PES 1-6?

Had some of the best games ever on 5 and there was no levels of assistance to change, just good old individuality and stats to rely on.
 
DarthKebab said:
Can I just ask why full pass assistance users get such a rough deal?

People complaining about users online using it, why? Did you not like PES 1-6?

Had some of the best games ever on 5 and there was no levels of assistance to change, just good old individuality and stats to rely on.
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It moves away from the freedom of PES 2011, it's actually a backwards step, to the likes of 1-6. Passing individuality also means very little. Basically, in my opinion, it's bullshit.

Edit - Here is a superb discussion about all the reasons why we feel Zero Passing Assistance is best for PEEL. Not sure if you can see the thread without becoming a member, but either way, it's a great read/discussion.

http://www.proevoeliteleagues.net/index.php?/topic/13880-assistance-settings/
 
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