PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

With reference to Shopto pre orders check the time on the attached image in the 'despatched e-mail'. Mine is around 6:00pm, so i figured royal mail would have had it yesterday. But the e-mail did say the next royal mail collection so it must have missed it.

Postman Pat hasn't delivered so it would be tomorrow morning.
 
gerd said:
I remember that you told exactly the same story last year jimmy, but i don't care...it's a good story...
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:)

Well, it's just had a slight twist in the tale ...... :CONFUSE:

I've just nipped out to said video game store, it's only 5 minutes from my place of work, just to confirm tomorrow's transaction. As I walked up to the counter, the PES fan brother held his head in his hands and shrieked 'Oh no'. I said, puzzled, 'whats up?'. He said, I had 3 copies this morning, but let all 3 go to a regular. He then said, I did PM you last night on PSN to tell you we had them in a day earlier than usual.

Nightmare. It was a classic case of a 'Let's have a look at what you could have won' moment. :CONFUSE:

I informed him that there was no worries, I wasn't expecting it today anyway, as it never usually arrives with them till the Thursday morning, historically.

If I had have logged on to PSN last night, I would have put a day's holiday in for today and Friday, but, I guess it wasn't to be. I feel a little better knowing that I'm out with the missis tonight for a meal, (securing those 'brownie-points ;) ) and I wouldnt have had time to play it tonight anyway. Also, there was no-way I could have booked Thursday off work as I'm very busy with appointments all-day. That said, it would have been nice to have it within my grubby mitts.

Never mind, it is what it is. I've waited long enough, another day wont hurt.








































Bastardo !!!!!!!!!!!
 
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ehsan_c said:
With reference to Shopto pre orders check the time on the attached image in the 'despatched e-mail'. Mine is around 6:00pm, so i figured royal mail would have had it yesterday. But the e-mail did say the next royal mail collection so it must have missed it.

Postman Pat hasn't delivered so it would be tomorrow morning.
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My package photo has a time of 7:30pm. . . .I suppose that means mine will probably be delivered tomorrow as well.

Oh well I can handle a Thursday delivery I supppose. Just really really need to get hold of a basic kits and club names option file so I can start a Master League off!
 
MadmaxG79 said:
For those of you with the 360 version (like myself), I highly recommend Daymos' option file. Last year's was quality stuff.

http://forums.onlyproevolutions.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=240

Besides, installing (and removing) option files for the 360 version is a breeze compared to PS3 :WHISTLE:
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Yeah, I know about Daymos. Unfortunatelly what I care most is the tactics and edited players and Daymos doesn't cover that.

With this OF I'm even thinking of buying the PS3 version.

One question though: How much of this OF can be used for Master League Online? Can we use the kits or stadiums or it's all about the default in MLO?
 
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I am kind of getting annoyed at these gaming websites who seem to have labeled FIFA with the badge of simulation and PES as arcadey gameplay.

This is from Eurogamer today
PES 2012 launches on Friday. The verdict? Not better than FIFA but back on track. And, crucially, a viable alternative to boring-snoring simulation.
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Radiation said:
I can't recall how many teams division 2 has, so with that in mind when I say 'full' I just mean a full league, not EVERY championship side....

So.. Is your 2nd division full of English championship teams or is it a mix of championship and then 1 or 2 euro teams mixed in?
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15 championship teams,celtic,rangers and shamrock rovers.theres only spaces for 18 teams in the pes 2nd division so you wont get a full championship on any file out there
 
whatsinaname said:
I am kind of getting annoyed at these gaming websites who seem to have labeled FIFA with the badge of simulation and PES as arcadey gameplay.

This is from Eurogamer today
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Don't let it bother you. IGN had the exclusive 1st review for FIFA and gave it a 9.5 (same score they gave NBA2k12 which is ridiculous). They haven't even reviewed PES yet and it came out same day as FIFA here in the states! If that doesn't stink of something underhanded, I don't know what does.
 
ojejku said:
Lami, I don't get your point. Why are you linking those real misses ? What the hell misses have to do with the shooting "issue" in PES? (I quoted issue since it turns out that it is not an issue to some of you people). Fundamental question, how can I know at which direction those players wanted to shoot? :SHOCK: Second fundamental question is what misses have to do with wrong shooting direction? :SHOCK: These are two different things that my 2-years old child can tell you...

I completely agree with Lyvean. He's so damn right and convinced me that not only I see those problems (there are others well). I've already uninstalled PES12 demo so I can't record a video to show you an example of that and belive me (Jimmy) it is not a "Making sure the preferred foot is in use, the posture is correct, the angles are right, there is no pressure" context. What's more, if I showed you that you would have to believe me that I was pointing at different direction.

There is so much truth in:
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Wait a minute. There might be some misunderstanding here, or not. I thought he was complaining about PES' shooting, to which I responded it's always been the same in all iterations. Then I explained a bit. Then he responded with me trying to give Konami excuses and no player in the world would misplace a shot, to which I responded in clips showing him it may happen. So I don't really get what's happening here... Unless you are saying that every shot is a random one? But even so, that's not the case for me. I admit only a fraction are, but most go where I want them to, of course depending on stats and what not.

proxi said:
Arrrggggghhhhhhh. Lami, please fix!
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I've been trying to get hold of Seabass' cell but the bastard's answer machine says "I'm currently in Cancun chilling with Eva Mendez, Miss Mexico, and Mr.T. So yea! FU.. *beep* Please leave a message after the tone *beep*"
 
Lami said:
Wait a minute. There might be some misunderstanding here, or not. I thought he was complaining about PES' shooting, to which I responded it's always been the same in all iterations. Then I explained a bit. Then he responded with me trying to give Konami excuses and no player in the world would misplace a shot, to which I responded in clips showing him it may happen. So I don't really get what's happening here... Unless you are saying that every shot is a random one? But even so, that's not the case for me. I admit only a fraction are, but most go where I want them to, of course depending on stats and what not.
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Are you kidding?

I said no player in the world would shoot right when he wants to shoot left. Intentionally, not a fluke.

I'm pushing left with my stick while in parallel of the pitch yet my shooting will always end up in the goal or near it. This doesn't make sense, that's what I said.
 
ctruppi said:
Don't let it bother you. IGN had the exclusive 1st review for FIFA and gave it a 9.5 (same score they gave NBA2k12 which is ridiculous). They haven't even reviewed PES yet and it came out same day as FIFA here in the states! If that doesn't stink of something underhanded, I don't know what does.
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Weird. It just came live 10 minutes ago...
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/119/1199765p1.html

:CONFUSE:
 
Lyvean said:
Are you kidding?

I said no player in the world would shoot right when he wants to shoot left. Intentionally, not a fluke.

I'm pushing left with my stick while in parallel of the pitch yet my shooting will always end up in the goal or near it. This doesn't make sense, that's what I said.
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No, I'm not kidding. That's what I understood from you. I think I still don't get you much tbh. If you mean you'd like to hit the corner flag and it ends up near the goal, then yes, it's always been like that. Shooting will always end up going somewhere near the goal as that is the "zone" that gets triggered.

I hope I get you now.
 
Hold the shooting direction more, and make sure your not square on when you shoot. You need angles to create the impact of the direction. The only real exception is players with high technique and the R2 shot.
 
whatsinaname said:
I am kind of getting annoyed at these gaming websites who seem to have labeled FIFA with the badge of simulation and PES as arcadey gameplay.
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Konami only have themselves to blame, for making the game speed so fast and silly and setting heavy pass assistance as default. If they'd wanted to sell the game as a sim, they should have handled this a lot better.

As it is, you play the game out of the box and it does look arcadey, certainly until you get the measure of it (from what I've heard, you go online and it's even more of a button-mashing thrash). Add that to poor graphics and unnatural animations and it's no surprise that reviewers - and casual players of the demo - come away with that impression.

I guess the logic was to create a game that was deep and rewarding for the hardcore, but frantic and "easy" enough on the surface that it would appeal to FIFA-playing kids. But the balance is wrong. Casual players are alienated already because they turn their noses up at bad animations and lack of licenses, and they certainly won't like the fact that if you defend casually you get arse-hammered 4-0 by the computer; hardcore sim players are irritated that you have to wrestle with the game (and change loads of settings) to get under the arcadey surface and make it play like a simulation.

Sure, most of us here can see the depth in this game, but that's because we want it to be there, and so we're actually looking for it. We take off passing assistance, tweak the preset tactics, play a far more patient game that the computer "wants" us to play... and hey presto, it comes alive. But even then, most of the complaints here and elsewhere can be traced back to those unrealistic elements which make this PES seem "arcadey" (sped-up player movements, direct attacking AI, oversimplified dribbling, the end-to-end nature of every game, the availability of super-easy passing assistance settings which can be used online). They're still there, getting in the way, whatever you do.

Either this game was meant to be a 100% simulation but Konami screwed up the fine-tuning, or else they deliberately dumbed down certain aspects to try and bring in very casual players. The result seems to have fallen between two stools.

They should just accept that FIFA will always, always, always be the first choice of kids and casuals - even if EA created a grindingly-slow flight-simulator of a game, that would still be the case because a.) it's got the licenses, b.) it's got the shiny tech, and c.) it's got the big brand name. The only reason to buy this quaint little Japanese competitor is to get something Konami can do well and EA can't: simulation play which takes football fundamentals into account. Pandering to this supposed glut of casual players who want "fun" over realism is a disastrous move for Konami, both because these people are not going to move to PES in significant numbers (even if they actually exist, which I'm not so sure of), and because PES is not and never has been the game for these people. What's more, they run the risk of alienating the core PES player, without whom Konami would be totally fucked.

I'm still enjoying the demo and I'm looking forward to the full game tomorrow, but I can absolutely see why some people are labelling PES2012 "arcadey". It's not some sort of conspiracy by reviewers to make people play FIFA. It's down to basic faults in how this game is balanced, and I hope Konami never make that mistake again - for their sake as well as mine.
 
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Great post Pere Ubu! I was at my brother's house the other day and my nephew (13 years old and loves soccer) was playing his PS3. I saw FIFA12 sitting on the floor and asked him why he wasn't playing it, considering it was brand new. His reply was that he was already bored with it. After one week, he was already winning every game 5 or 6 nil. When I asked him why he keeps buying this crap game and not PES like his good uncle told him to, his reply was that PES doesn't have the real teams and all his friends "have FIFA". I know he plays games online, so I told him to call one of his friends and get a game going online. He said that they don't ever actually play FIFA.

So, the bottom line, kids buy FIFA for the teams even though 99% of them will only play with 3-5 teams. They also buy the game because their friends own it, but don't actually really play it, because the gameplay sucks and after a week it becomes too easy.

For Konami to try and wade into these waters is monumentally stupid. They can not compete with EA on their strenghts.
 
Lami said:
No, I'm not kidding. That's what I understood from you. I think I still don't get you much tbh. If you mean you'd like to hit the corner flag and it ends up near the goal, then yes, it's always been like that. Shooting will always end up going somewhere near the goal as that is the "zone" that gets triggered.

I hope I get you now.
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That's what I'm saying. It's high time we had some larger error margin in shooting.

Also, the final game still has the running bug and alongside the numerous problems you can see the A.I. occasionally lifting the ball in the air, as if a bad early cross, instead of opting for more logical passes. It's completely ridiculous.
 
Lyvean said:
Also, the final game still has the running bug and alongside the numerous problems you can see the A.I. occasionally lifting the ball in the air, as if a bad early cross, instead of opting for more logical passes. It's completely ridiculous.
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Yea that "bad early cross" needs to be toned down a bit imo. They should keeping the ball instead and maybe opt to desperate long balls as a last resort.

No run bug on the PS3 so I'm content :P Hope it does get rectified for the 360 soon though.
 
Lami said:
Yea that "bad early cross" needs to be toned down a bit imo. They should keeping the ball instead and maybe opt to desperate long balls as a last resort.

No run bug on the PS3 so I'm content :P Hope it does get rectified for the 360 soon though.
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Trust me. It won't.

How's the PS3 version, graphic wise and control wise?
 
I will never understand the concept of a football game, on a games console, being, or attempting to be, a sim. It's just not possible. You can have a flight simulator, yes, but a football one(?) when playing on a control pad?

No commercial console footy game has ever been a sim and likely will never be.
 
Pere Ubu said:
FIFA will always, always, always be the first choice of kids and casuals
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IMO, that kind of tribalistic, reflexive auto-loathing of the other game, regardless of its actual qualities, has actually contributed to the ongoing decline of PES in this generation. The PES community still thinks it's 2004, and sulks at any clear evidence that it's not. I still know people who thought FIFA08, for example, was just FIFA2003 with HD graphics. It's a truly bizarre phenomenon.

What you say is true in at least one way, of course---to the public, FIFA is the football game. Konami have made yet another blunder with their inexplicable 2-week delay in the UK & Ireland. Everyone I know who was going to get a football game this year has already got FIFA12, and that's the end of their purchases. (Apart from the ones who don't like FIFA12 because it's too hard for them, and are planning to go back to PES because it's more accessible. But we mustn't stray into that dangerous area, eh?)

Most people see football games the way I see baseball games. I'm going to buy the baseball game that's got the best reviews, the best 'buzz' around it, maybe the one that my friends (if I have any) are playing, and if I'm happy with it and want to go on playing it, why should I look at any other baseball game all year?

PES2013 needs to come out in all major markets at least a week before FIFA13. That would be a start.
 
Pere Ubu said:
Konami only have themselves to blame, for making the game speed so fast and silly and setting heavy pass assistance as default. If they'd wanted to sell the game as a sim, they should have handled this a lot better.

As it is, you play the game out of the box and it does look arcadey, certainly until you get the measure of it (from what I've heard, you go online and it's even more of a button-mashing thrash). Add that to poor graphics and unnatural animations and it's no surprise that reviewers - and casual players of the demo - come away with that impression.

I guess the logic was to create a game that was deep and rewarding for the hardcore, but frantic and "easy" enough on the surface that it would appeal to FIFA-playing kids. But the balance is wrong. Casual players are alienated already because they turn their noses up at bad animations and lack of licenses, and they certainly won't like the fact that if you defend casually you get arse-hammered 4-0 by the computer; hardcore sim players are irritated that you have to wrestle with the game (and change loads of settings) to get under the arcadey surface and make it play like a simulation.

Sure, most of us here can see the depth in this game, but that's because we want it to be there, and so we're actually looking for it. We take off passing assistance, tweak the preset tactics, play a far more patient game that the computer "wants" us to play... and hey presto, it comes alive. But even then, most of the complaints here and elsewhere can be traced back to those unrealistic elements which make this PES seem "arcadey" (sped-up player movements, direct attacking AI, oversimplified dribbling, the end-to-end nature of every game, the availability of super-easy passing assistance settings which can be used online). They're still there, getting in the way, whatever you do.

Either this game was meant to be a 100% simulation but Konami screwed up the fine-tuning, or else they deliberately dumbed down certain aspects to try and bring in very casual players. The result seems to have fallen between two stools.

They should just accept that FIFA will always, always, always be the first choice of kids and casuals - even if EA created a grindingly-slow flight-simulator of a game, that would still be the case because a.) it's got the licenses, b.) it's got the shiny tech, and c.) it's got the big brand name. The only reason to buy this quaint little Japanese competitor is to get something Konami can do well and EA can't: simulation play which takes football fundamentals into account. Pandering to this supposed glut of casual players who want "fun" over realism is a disastrous move for Konami, both because these people are not going to move to PES in significant numbers (even if they actually exist, which I'm not so sure of), and because PES is not and never has been the game for these people. What's more, they run the risk of alienating the core PES player, without whom Konami would be totally fucked.

I'm still enjoying the demo and I'm looking forward to the full game tomorrow, but I can absolutely see why some people are labelling PES2012 "arcadey". It's not some sort of conspiracy by reviewers to make people play FIFA. It's down to basic faults in how this game is balanced, and I hope Konami never make that mistake again - for their sake as well as mine.
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:APPLAUD::APPLAUD:
 
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