PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Drekkard has posted his impressions of FIFA, but since this is the PES section I'll quote the section relevant to PES:

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2344863&postcount=4309

Unavoidable comparison to PES
Then I put PES demo again. The game is technically awful. The animations are a joke and the engine of the game is old and limited. It has some problems Fifa has, specially in the CPU AI and the railing feeling of things. In every department, PES is absolutely worse than FIFA. Absolutely. It's like comparing a Ferrari and a Skoda.

And even if all this is true, I perfectly remember some team moves I did with PES that made me shout and scream tothe TV. Some players that clearly work in different way, the way some forward will use space and drag defenders to create a passing lane. PES is a game that has a lot of crap in it. But it's a game of football. FIFA it's a great game, but has very very little football in it.

I hope people respect my oppinion and try to understand where it comes from and what I'm criticizing here. How can it be that me, being a great footy fan, loving videogames and having played all Fifas from 08 to now... how can I be utterly bored after 2 days of playing it? Something is definitely wrong here.
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gomito#10 said:
I really hope Klansman and company can do the french and Spanish leagues this year and even Italy.
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Umm, you might want to check the spelling of his name...

Had a few games on the demo tonight, Internacional v America. Lovely football, beautifully balanced, winning narrowly, even if I did concede two own goals in one game from complete computer idiocy (managed to sprint a defender back to make a heroic goalline clearance... but unfortunately the goalie had just stood up and - facing down the pitch as though nothing was happening - strolled across his goalline... and I could only welly the ball back off his arse into the net).

But it was great, anyway. Then, feeling all blissed out, I decided to have a pop at Inter, playing as Bayern. Oh dear.

Yes, I lost 4-0 (still on Professional), but I don't mind that. It was just the way everything suddenly felt... a bit horrible. The whole game was in fast forward, and the computer was ping-ponging it down the pitch with an accuracy that would have been impossible even at real-life speed, never mind this crack-pipe pace. At one point Inter scored by making four instant one-touch passes, while sprinting, over a space fifteen yards wide, through a congested defence... and this happened faster than the human eye could follow. Seriously, I just saw a sort of blur of movement and the ball was in the net - I had to watch the replay to even see what had happened. What had happened was a passing move Barcelona wouldn't have been able to pull off on a good day, executed inch-perfectly, while sprinting, with the ball travelling faster than if it had been launched by fucking NASA.

It doesn't even make sense. I mean, if the computer wants to score impossible goals, OK, but you'd think they'd happen at a pace which allowed the human eye to see where the ball was going, if not a pace which allowed the human hand to defend it.

(Later in that game I conceded another goal which required a replay to understand: this time Neuer had parried the ball straight into Eto'o, who'd had a wild shot from one yard out which went through FIVE ricochets off two defenders and a goalkeeper before trickling over the line. Wasn't so bothered about that one in principle, as it does happen occasionally, but I would have preferred it if the ball hadn't bounced between those players faster than the contents of the Large Hadron Collider.)

The contrast between this and the Copa games was unbelievable. I managed to adjust to the pace eventually and scraped a win in the third game, but I object to playing simulation football at arcade pace. It's not a huge problem as I won't be using or playing against top teams in the full game much anyway, and it seems that with lesser sides the game plays out only a little faster than real life. But what worries me is that people here are saying that online is even faster. I'm not sure what to make of that (as it usually plays like molasses, obviously) - could it just be a combination of nearly-empty servers and people using Barca + massive pressure and kick-and-rush tactics? Or is it actually, somehow, faster than 0 speed? Worried about how much I'm going to enjoy PEEL this year if it's the latter.
 
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If only PES has nailed their basic footballing animation and graphic this year... there may be less complains.. :P

I predict only slight improvement and tweak for PES 2013 compared to what we have now if fans are not that vocal about it more than ever.... again :COAT:
 
I am very disappointed with the online play (for PC). Seriously, someone at Konami needs to be told pinball football is NOT how football is played. I was really looking forward to online this year, but after having played 10 games or so, my eyes just hurt from following the fast pinball movement of the players and the ball. It really takes any enjoyment out of the game.
 
Haven't played the full game yet as it isn't out here but if it really is this fast make sure you make plenty of noise so they can patch it for offline and online. Zero speed should not be fast. That is what +1 and +2 speeds are there for.

If you could change player speed separately to ball speed then I would play on -2.
 
Pere Ubu said:
Then, feeling all blissed out, I decided to have a pop at Inter, playing as Bayern. Oh dear.

Yes, I lost 4-0 (still on Professional), but I don't mind that. It was just the way everything suddenly felt... a bit horrible. The whole game was in fast forward, and the computer was ping-ponging it down the pitch with an accuracy that would have been impossible even at real-life speed, never mind this crack-pipe pace. At one point Inter scored by making four instant one-touch passes, while sprinting, over a space fifteen yards wide, through a congested defence... and this happened faster than the human eye could follow. Seriously, I just saw a sort of blur of movement and the ball was in the net - I had to watch the replay to even see what had happened. What had happened was a passing move Barcelona wouldn't have been able to pull off on a good day, executed inch-perfectly, while sprinting, with the ball travelling faster than if it had been launched by fucking NASA.

It doesn't even make sense. I mean, if the computer wants to score impossible goals, OK, but you'd think they'd happen at a pace which allowed the human eye to see where the ball was going, if not a pace which allowed the human hand to defend it.

(Later in that game I conceded another goal which required a replay to understand: this time Neuer had parried the ball straight into Eto'o, who'd had a wild shot from one yard out which went through FIVE ricochets off two defenders and a goalkeeper before trickling over the line. Wasn't so bothered about that one in principle, as it does happen occasionally, but I would have preferred it if the ball hadn't bounced between those players faster than the contents of the Large Hadron Collider.)
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This. I can't believe Konami did this and are touting it as amazing AI. It really irks me and they must think we are utter morons not to pick it up. There are many instances so far when it has been impossible to stop a goal that started 50 meters out with crazy 1 touch build up. Yesterday I was playing Spurs vs Rangers and was 3-0 down in the first 25 minutes. They didn't hold the ball or anything but around the box. Jesus Navas!!! Messi and co would have been proud of the build up play 1-2-3 side step, pull back boom goal!! all whilst I'm still trying to change to the right player. I am starting to think demo 1 was better than demo 2.

Proffessional difficulty is a little too forgiving for me as they let you run all angles in midfield so the build up is not as satsifying.

What were you thinking Seabass?
 
Lol yeah why on earth. I think online will be awesome on fully manual with the likes of Jimmy, Pere, Kaiser and a few other Peelers. No Super AI just bare knuckled manual passing chess with smaller teams . MLO is going to be interesting initially with the poor players.
 
My game should come today peeps, going to see what all the negativity is about for myself. For me, I now know how to hold the CPU up and MAKE them play possession football. For me anyway, it's a combination of changing the tactics for your team, R2 contain, and having two defensive minded central midfield players. This will in turn stop the CPU from countering so rapidly all the time.

The trouble is, it is hard to make comparisons with some people saying it is broken and others saying it isn't. If you watch most games these days, both teams defences actually start from the halfway line, then the real defensive game starts halfway into that halfway line. The theory being that you then have almost all your team goal side in only a quarter of the pitch thus cramping the opposition with lack of space.

This is how I defend in PES, and I'm hardly cut to ribbons at all. If you defend high up the pitch on this game you're going to get caned. The default formations like Bayern v Inter for example is a recipe for open end to end football. I mean just look at them. Bayern have four or five players over the halfway line and they are all aggressive creative players, and Inter have more or less the same. So you either fight fire with fire and match them attack for attack, or you change your tactics and try and hit these teams on the counter. This is where I feel the game is great.

I actually have more problems with teams like Rangers now, because they park the bus. Thus I have to change my tactics.

Also, as always PLAYER SUPPORT is huge in this game. If you have anything above 10 then you're asking for carnage. The AI is so good anyway that you'll always have a passing option without half your team bolting past you. I play 4-5-1, with my striker dropping off as an SS and a CM just in front of the other DMFs in the centre. He is the only central midfielder that I channel my moves through, the other DMFs are there purely for defence only and to pass the ball onto my creative players.

Player support, well I set this to something like 5/6. You get loads of players rushing forward of the ball in this game, and you're asking for trouble.

Anyway, like I say the game should come today so I'm looking forward (or not) to any alterations about it.
 
Online is an absolute joke, reminds me of FIFA 10 at it's very worst. Very occasionally you might be able to pull off a good-looking move or play proper football, but you mostly get swamped with pressure and insanely quick passing. I've only had one enjoyable game which unsurprisingly was a fixture between Heerenveen (me) and Swansea. Much better pacing, dribbling works and the midfield actually has a role to play. Shame everyone wants to play with Barca, Real, Milan or Inter.
 
Orange Gooner said:
Online is an absolute joke, reminds me of FIFA 10 at it's very worst. Very occasionally you might be able to pull off a good-looking move or play proper football, but you mostly get swamped with pressure and insanely quick passing. I've only had one enjoyable game which unsurprisingly was a fixture between Heerenveen (me) and Swansea. Much better pacing, dribbling works and the midfield actually has a role to play. Shame everyone wants to play with Barca, Real, Milan or Inter.
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Yes, I was right. Therefore, from Konami gives no information about the online mode.
Is there 4 vs 4 room matches ?
 
tc811 said:
Drekkard has posted his impressions of FIFA, but since this is the PES section I'll quote the section relevant to PES:

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2344863&postcount=4309
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I really think he goes too far with the comparison, it almost sounds like he is a FIFA fanboy who refuses to like anything else.

But I havent read the full text so I dont know about that.

But I disagree, this year is one of KONAMI's finest years so far, I have waited so long for a fast fun football game like this, and I finally got it.

I can't wait to get the game once its released in Europe. :))

But can anyone help me about selecting tactics in Game Plan? I dont know how to do that.

EDIT: After reading some of Drekkard's review, he doesnt sound much like a FIFA fanboy to me. :D

He pretty much said that while FIFA had everything when it came to modes and presentation, it just didnt have the football gameplay.

While PES pretty much had nothing in the technical department, it atleast felt like a football game.

That was his final opinion.
 
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Worm199 said:
I really think he goes too far with the comparison, it almost sounds like he is a FIFA fanboy who refuses to like anything else.

But I havent read the full text so I dont know about that.

But I disagree, this year is one of KONAMI's finest years so far, I have waited so long for a fast fun football game like this, and I finally got it.

I can't wait to get the game once its released in Europe. :))

But can anyone help me about selecting tactics in Game Plan? I dont know how to do that.

EDIT: After reading some of Drekkard's review, he doesnt sound much like a FIFA fanboy to me. :D

He pretty much said that while FIFA had everything when it came to modes and presentation, it just didnt have the football gameplay.

While PES pretty much had nothing in the technical department, it atleast felt like a football game.

That was his final opinion.
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To be fair the guy started with a complete negative saying he didn't want to buy the game in the first place. The majority of his other statements just sound like he's not very good at defending or attacking if he cant go round the AI. Also sounds like he'son assisted controls. Certainly not my experience of the game.
 
hitmanuk said:
To be fair the guy started with a complete negative saying he didn't want to buy the game in the first place. The majority of his other statements just sound like he's not very good at defending or attacking if he cant go round the AI. Also sounds like he'son assisted controls. Certainly not my experience of the game.
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To be fair he isn't a fanboy like you. :YAWN:
 
Autogolazo said:
To be fair he isn't a fanboy like you. :YAWN:
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Come on guys, let's try to be a little bit more mature... :COP:

Throwing names like fanboy around isn't really contributing to anything.

Personally I'm interested in a lot of peoples different views on the game, especially since I won't get to play it until the 14th. So all I have right now is the mixed opinions from all you guys.

I'm really excited about the game having played demo 2 (X360). I'm just a little scared that they've worsened the final game since the demo, which was definitely the case last year. A lot of people in here seem to be hinting that that's indeed the case again this year... :CONFUSE:
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Haven't played the full game yet as it isn't out here but if it really is this fast make sure you make plenty of noise so they can patch it for offline and online. Zero speed should not be fast. That is what +1 and +2 speeds are there for.

If you could change player speed separately to ball speed then I would play on -2.
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Yeah something needs to be done about this. You have a twitter account right Calcio? Could you please let Jon Murphy know about this problem? I'm playing on PC but Lami has said the same about the Xbox360 version as well.

Thespeedster84 said:
Got this online play buy random guys on youtube.. tbh the speed seems okay though, well, haven't got the retail myself so.

YouTube - Pes 2012 xbox360 Online - FC Barcelona vs Inter de milan
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Okay the speed on that video doesn't seem as bad as what it was on my PC. That's weird, but I found last year certain stadiums played faster than others. That could be the problem. Whatever it is, online really isn't enjoyable for me. I don't mean to whine, but it's absolutely ridiculous how the game is played. It's not just to do with the kick and rush tactics that some of these guys use. That is a factor of course, but the speed of the movement and the ball is just way too fast. It really feels like +1 or +2 speed to me.
 
This little voyeur on WENB is misunderstanding me, there is little pressure now on 360 since the patch on all difficulty levels since the patch, was using professional level before the patch and finding it a brilliant challenge but now, on professional level, top player and superstar level there is almost no pressure, you can you zig zag the the box with pretty much any player without using run modifiers.

Plus the speed on 0 is now turbo charged.
 
Worm199 said:
I really think he goes too far with the comparison, it almost sounds like he is a FIFA fanboy who refuses to like anything else.

But I havent read the full text so I dont know about that.

But I disagree, this year is one of KONAMI's finest years so far, I have waited so long for a fast fun football game like this, and I finally got it.

I can't wait to get the game once its released in Europe. :))

But can anyone help me about selecting tactics in Game Plan? I dont know how to do that.

EDIT: After reading some of Drekkard's review, he doesnt sound much like a FIFA fanboy to me. :D

He pretty much said that while FIFA had everything when it came to modes and presentation, it just didnt have the football gameplay.

While PES pretty much had nothing in the technical department, it atleast felt like a football game.

That was his final opinion.
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Dekkard? He is total FIFA F A N BO Y it's nothing new:))
 
shank118 said:
Yeah something needs to be done about this. You have a twitter account right Calcio? Could you please let Jon Murphy know about this problem? I'm playing on PC but Lami has said the same about the Xbox360 version as well.
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And I've said the same about the PS3 version. Default speed is *MUCH* too fast and feels nothing like the game I watch on TV. If anything, it just plays into the pressure whores who set their passing to 4 bars and ping-pong it up the pitch. One of the few complaints I have so far about this great game.
 
I predicted these negatives posts about online experience. We need to face the fact that online is pre-adjustable to please the masses.

Since i knew that konami added too many passing bar assisance levels to the game i was sure that online experience would be bad (at least with random players).

In pes 2011, at firs the online experience was good, really good at times, but it became aweful the more i played it. Passing in pes 2011 is very limited, it never was like i alwasy wanted it to be, but in online matchs passing was garbage, pure arcade like, and that's very ironic because at the same time it was very limited in terms of direction and power (you could never pass into space, unless you use manual, but you wouldn't get real advantage as AI was shocking to move), it was still very easy, not to count the terrible double pressure. I watch my bro playing online... man, the game is a mess, but i still don't think that pes 2011 us that bad as people make it in online.

I'll get over online matchs, so i really hope that the game is good enough offline.
 
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Quite coincidental Dudu I was typing this and you beat me to it!

As I've mentioned before I was glad Konami stayed away from the assistance levels of passing, preferring to make it stat determined with just a little bit of control over power and a manual modifier for occasional use.

Now that we have 5 levels of assistance public online play is going to be poor for me, including MLO :( I play with zero assistance and don't fancy playing fully assisted Barca/Real ping-pong punks who do not have to think of direction.

I experienced this with FIFA 09 and eventually resorted to an all manual league. Theoretically, people said that the more skilled players using manual should be able to dominate, realistically it was rarely the case because you had to play a harder version of the game against a ridiculously easy one your opponent was playing. It was no real fun playing manual vs assisted, and I can see it happening all over again unfortunately.

It's sort of like a racing sim/semi-sim and the use of traction control. Those using it can put the power down/floor it out of the corners earlier because the TC prevents the rear wheels from slipping, those not using it have to be more careful with their placement of the throttle. It makes the latter more skilled drivers but obviously it isn't really a fair race.

You can organise it yourself, but I'd like there to be a filter that FIFA has now implemented, zero assistance passing vs zero assistance passing. Problem is, where does it end? I play semi assisted cursor switching, some people might play unassisted. They might ask for the same thing on their end too :P

I do think passing is of higher priority though especially for multiplayer, as its the bread and butter of the game; whereas something like cursor switching should be more down to taste (eg. how quickly you want the cursor to change or how much you want to control it).
 
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It's one thing having passing assistance standard, but if the actual speed of the game isn't reduced it's not much help. In the games I've played online so far, I've used 0 passing assistance, and I have managed to get some very nice passes and moves going. I think in terms of passing there isnt too much of a handicap for the 0-users against the 4 bar users. However, it's the actual fast, arcadey movement of the players and the ball that really irks me.
 
I totally agree with Drekkard. I played the FIFA demo for hours yesterday, put PES in at the end of the night and was shocked at how bad it looked, moved and sounded. It was like a PS2 game with a bit of polish in comparison BUT it plays soo much better. After a while the awkward movement, stuttering animations, rubbish graphics and poor physics dissapear and you are left with a proper football game, something that despite all its bells and whistles FIFA does not acheive. FIFA really is missing something big in its gameplay, for me its the AI along with the way the game feels. FIFA to me feels like you are controlling a man who is playing football. PES feels like you are playing football and until EA can remove that third person feeling I wont be buying it.
 
I'll have to play it myself to see obviously (same with the default gamespeed), but I've been here before with the FIFA manual vs assisted, so I'm not holding out much hope. The difference even in the offline demos between 0 assistance and the others surely has to have some sort of effect online.
 
Hisalek said:
on line ver very bad, rosters very very bad, kits and fonts messed up, animations very very bad, visual very very bad.

Konami why? we spend money and we get this poor effort!!!
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Why? Cause you have done that four times before, what makes you stop now? PES died on the next gen, that's the sad truth that everyone hates to confess..
 
I'm very worried about this years PES on so many levels. The Passing Assistance has worried me from Day 1, it will ruin Online. Why on earth Konami sold-out like this is beyond me. Trying to appease Fifa players whilst ruining it for the PES faithful is ridiculous. As it stands, they have spoilt it for everyone.

Offline as well has issues for me personally, mainly down to how unbalanced I've found Top Player to be right from the get-go. I agree with Pere 100%, I've never ever felt PES had a pre-ordained nature to the CPU's play, but I have this year, and it kills me to be honest. :(
 
You can still choose to play in a closed online community Jimmy, having everyone playing on 0 pass support. I know MLO would be rendered useless for us but what to do. Either they have pass support in the options in friendly and ranked games online, or let us have a closed MLO community.
 
OK that's my last match on Top player, I've played at that level on every PES game till now, but I can't handle the over the top consistency of the CPU anymore, not forgetting to mention every rebound or lose ball ending at the feet of the CPU.

PES 2012 - Flawed Genius
 
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