PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

I'm surprised to see people struggling so much and losing games. I came close to losing as Portugal v Germany last night but drew 3-3 in an unusually high-scoring game.

As I've said, I'm not the best. And I've probably put a lot less hours into PES as a lot here but I'm finding PES 2012 easy enough where it's VERY rare I'm close to being beaten. I can't even remember the last time I lost a match.

I know I'm not that good because I've played friends and randoms online and been battered. I'm tempted to give online a go again if I'm able to do so well against the CPU but I don't want to get embarassed again :LOL:
 
DagsJT said:
I'm surprised to see people struggling so much and losing games. I came close to losing as Portugal v Germany last night but drew 3-3 in an unusually high-scoring game.

As I've said, I'm not the best. And I've probably put a lot less hours into PES as a lot here but I'm finding PES 2012 easy enough where it's VERY rare I'm close to being beaten. I can't even remember the last time I lost a match.

I know I'm not that good because I've played friends and randoms online and been battered. I'm tempted to give online a go again if I'm able to do so well against the CPU but I don't want to get embarassed again :LOL:
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Are you playing Zero Pass Assist Dags ? If so, well done. I find the game at least 3 times easier even on 1 Bar Pass Assistance.
 
I must be doing something right all of a sudden, the last two games I played last night saw me beat Spurs 2-0 then Inter 2-1, both on Professional. The games were so one-sided I was camped in the opposition halves near on the entire match, which is a feat because I haven't actually bothered learning how to tackle properly. I've been basically jockeying and when in this stance running 'into' players. Seems to work fine.

I was a constant R2 user in PES2011 but with this demo not so much, it doesn't seem to have the effect it did if you held it before pressing shoot or pass (in 2011 it slowed things right down, but not to be confused with tapping R2 immediately after pressing shoot), and dribbling seems to make players almost lose the ball, like they do a strange body turn and almost forget the ball. I've found using absolutely nothing other than light stick movements and using the correct players to do so has worked for me, Robben and Ribery are crazy in this demo. Their dribbling is insane but amazing fun.

Oh and it's zero pass assistance for me definitely, too many occasions have seen passes been auto directed away from the way they were intended, though I'm not sure how this affects the ability of players with high passing stats. Are they still more accurate than others on zero assistance?
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Are you playing Zero Pass Assist Dags ? If so, well done. I find the game at least 3 times easier even on 1 Bar Pass Assistance.
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1-bar, I'll try zero tonight and see how it goes. I remember everyone here saying they were using 1-bar and it was the way to go so stuck with that. Makes sense that I should drop it to zero though. Looking forward to getting home and trying it now :)
 
LTFC said:
I must be doing something right all of a sudden, the last two games I played last night saw me beat Spurs 2-0 then Inter 2-1, both on Professional. The games were so one-sided I was camped in the opposition halves near on the entire match, which is a feat because I haven't actually bothered learning how to tackle properly. I've been basically jockeying and when in this stance running 'into' players. Seems to work fine.

I was a constant R2 user in PES2011 but with this demo not so much, it doesn't seem to have the effect it did if you held it before pressing shoot or pass (in 2011 it slowed things right down, but not to be confused with tapping R2 immediately after pressing shoot), and dribbling seems to make players almost lose the ball, like they do a strange body turn and almost forget the ball. I've found using absolutely nothing other than light stick movements and using the correct players to do so has worked for me, Robben and Ribery are crazy in this demo. Their dribbling is insane but amazing fun.

Oh and it's zero pass assistance for me definitely, too many occasions have seen passes been auto directed away from the way they were intended, though I'm not sure how this affects the ability of players with high passing stats. Are they still more accurate than others on zero assistance?
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Massively so LT, it's huge. The individuality on Zero is through the roof when it comes to passing. Especially the clever passes, only the best passers on your team can perform these.

Dags,

Zero is the way forward, once you get to grips with it. So, so, so much more control. The rewards are beyond words from a satisfaction level.
 
Ryuga-san said:
I hope so but there are still many players that should have been in the game and won't be because of Konami's nonsense. For example : Reus, Gündogan, Holtby, Tiffert, Babel, Firmino... A great shame...no, a real disgrace!
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I prefer to blame the Bundesliga for doing silly, short-sighted deals with EA.
 
Too bad the A.I. still doesn't make enough bad passes.

The only individuality that shines through is the ability of A.I. players to dribble past an opponent.

When it comes to passes, professional level and above, all teams pass around with unrealistically high passing rates.

It seems that technology from another world is needed to make mediocre passers not pass like Xavi. :SMUG:

God damn these incompetent companies, god damn them indeed.
 
I play on zero bars.

What's weird, is having discovered the bar thingy, after playing a few games on the default 3? bars, i didn't notice much difference when i switched it off, bar the odd pass, which must mean my passing is decent anyway. So i'm happy with that. :))
 
Lyvean said:
Too bad the A.I. still doesn't make enough bad passes.

The only individuality that shines through is the ability of A.I. players to dribble past an opponent.

When it comes to passes, professional level and above, all teams pass around with unrealistically high passing rates.

It seems that technology from another world is needed to make mediocre passers not pass like Xavi. :SMUG:

God damn these incompetent companies, god damn them indeed.
Click to expand...

I agree, but if you play on Pc Demo , you can easily address this issue lowering Pass accuracy (Short and long) and Dribble accuracy/speed by 25-30% using barcafan editor (csv export -import) to all players.
After you will see a more balanced an realistic gameplay.
:BYE:
 
That's strange, I find the AI plays lots of misplaced passes. Or, at least, passes I can intercept or are 50-50 balls that are there to be won.

As for my own passing game, I'm loving how I'm having to think about where to play the ball to my players in order to keep forward momentum for the team. It's a key aspect of the real sport that this game is beautifully replicating, and IMO hasn't been given enough, if any credit. I've literally had attacking moves fall completely by the wayside becuase on zero assistance I'd passed to a wide player, for example, but rather than playing it into his path ready to take in his stride, I've played it just a fraction behind his run which causes him to have to stop, check back, before taking control of the ball. By the short time this takes has happened, the AI is in a far stronger defensive position. It happens in real life all the time, countless times I've seen counter attacks ruined by, say, an attacker playing it wide but putting the ball slightly too far in front of their supporting player which ends up forcing him wider than anticipated, and the attack breaks down becuase it forced him away from goal momentarily.

So while passes might still be more accurate in terms of reaching their target, the pace and direction of a pass in relation to the movement of the player awaiting the ball has a substantial impact. Which I like. Alot.
 
I'm finding that the CPU clears the ball a lot more than previously. Big hoofs down the pitch do nobody in particular. Although at times it's quite realistic, sometimes they just smack it away when they're not under pressure. And it's not a pass because it's miles away from their nearest player.
 
LTFC said:
That's strange, I find the AI plays lots of misplaced passes. Or, at least, passes I can intercept or are 50-50 balls that are there to be won.

As for my own passing game, I'm loving how I'm having to think about where to play the ball to my players in order to keep forward momentum for the team. It's a key aspect of the real sport that this game is beautifully replicating, and IMO hasn't been given enough, if any credit. I've literally had attacking moves fall completely by the wayside becuase on zero assistance I'd passed to a wide player, for example, but rather than playing it into his path ready to take in his stride, I've played it just a fraction behind his run which causes him to have to stop, check back, before taking control of the ball. By the short time this takes has happened, the AI is in a far stronger defensive position. It happens in real life all the time, countless times I've seen counter attacks ruined by, say, an attacker playing it wide but putting the ball slightly too far in front of their supporting player which ends up forcing him wider than anticipated, and the attack breaks down becuase it forced him away from goal momentarily.

So while passes might still be more accurate in terms of reaching their target, the pace and direction of a pass in relation to the movement of the player awaiting the ball has a substantial impact. Which I like. Alot.
Click to expand...

I totally agree, there is a much more organic feel to the passing on Zero. And a real sense of achievement, as opposed to the feeling that the A.i. is holding your hand a bit.

LTFC said:
forget the ball. I've found using absolutely nothing other than light stick movements and using the correct players to do so has worked for me, Robben and Ribery are crazy in this demo. Their dribbling is insane but amazing fun.
Click to expand...

This is all you need. You can get away with not using R2 at all with these players when dribbling.
 
Jimmy, did you ever use the method in 2011 where you use the right stick and left stick to do a drop of the shoulder and pass your opponent? It was amazingly effective in that, but now it barely works. Loved that little move :(

Oh and has anyone noticed that the move where you hold down (I think) R1 before the ball gets to you making the player let the ball run past him while he turns and chases it has now gone? Unless the button config has changed, the player now traps it before turning.
 
OK,i really like Pes 12 and it will be the first time i ll buy it after 5 years...Finally Konami builds a game that reminds ps2 days and im ready to accept its flaws for the first time.But can someone explain me why the hell the game has no manual crosses???Even with the manual modifier?No power bar?I cant overhit or send the ball into space and not in the player? Something is wrong in the Konami studio,really its absurd...They can never deliver in simple things
 
LTFC said:
Jimmy, did you ever use the method in 2011 where you use the right stick and left stick to do a drop of the shoulder and pass your opponent? It was amazingly effective in that, but now it barely works. Loved that little move :(

Oh and has anyone noticed that the move where you hold down (I think) R1 before the ball gets to you making the player let the ball run past him while he turns and chases it has now gone? Unless the button config has changed, the player now traps it before turning.
Click to expand...

I never used that in PES 11, to be honest, all the little feints are still there by using the stick, I just prefer to allocate them using Link Feint. I found it tricky using the sticks alone.

Try using R2 and a direction aimed at where you wish to the ball to run to, that works. You have to tap R2 and push the direction just as the ball arrives at the player. When this video of D'Alessandro's ridiculous performance from last night has uploaded, you will be able to see what I mean. This was an R2 directional first-touch taken on the volley with this method. It's subtle, but truly, truly stunning. Bergkamp-esque.

I swore I wouldnt be able to go to bed last night until I'd beat the CPU, finally, I put my concentration head on, and pulled it off. But what game and what a performance from the little man it was.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
I never used that in PES 11, to be honest, all the little feints are still there by using the stick, I just prefer to allocate them using Link Feint. I found it tricky using the sticks alone.

Try using R2 and a direction aimed at where you wish to the ball to run to, that works. You have to tap R2 and push the direction just as the ball arrives at the player. When this video of D'Alessandro's ridiculous performance from last night has uploaded, you will be able to see what I mean. This was an R2 directional first-touch taken on the volley with this method. It's subtle, but truly, truly stunning. Bergkamp-esque.

I swore I wouldnt be able to go to bed last night until I'd beat the CPU, finally, I put my concentration head on, and pulled it off. But what game and what a performance from the little man it was.
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Lol, I was like that last night too. At 9.30pm I said to the missus I'll have one more game against the CPU and then we'll watch a 10pm film. Needless to say quarter to eleven later, no win and missus in bed, the evening went a bit tits up. Eventually I won - no film, but a satisfactory sleep nevertheless!
 
fideco said:
I agree, but if you play on Pc Demo , you can easily address this issue lowering Pass accuracy (Short and long) and Dribble accuracy/speed by 25-30% using barcafan editor (csv export -import) to all players.
After you will see a more balanced an realistic gameplay.
:BYE:
Click to expand...

Why can't Konami do it? Why do I have to mod it in? It's not that difficult now, is it?

Also, I'm not talking about passes that get intercepted. I'm talking about actual passes that don't end up to their receiver (e.g.going out of line) or make the receiver perform a bad control.

The system still doesn't work. Seeing Milan passing the ball around like Barcelona, in amazing speeds and with minimum error is really awful. I'm not saying it happens all the time, but it happens enough to make the whole experience unrealistic.

Has Konami actually seen how teams who are not Barcelona play football? I wonder.

Don't get fooled that we have some new and advanced A.I. It's easy to make the A.I. perform amazing, but the real advancement would be see them make human errors. It's not even that difficult. Just lower the pass accuracy and put some new animations in.

I just don't understand why the don't do this. The only thing that comes to mind is that they don't have the mind or the ability to think of such a simple addition.

It's amazing how incompetent Konami is and how low the ambition is (that applies for FIFA too.)

I wished 2K would actually try and create a football game. Both PES and FIFA seem like they are created by amateurs. :FAIL:
 
ccshopland said:
Lol, I was like that last night too. At 9.30pm I said to the missus I'll have one more game against the CPU and then we'll watch a 10pm film. Needless to say quarter to eleven later, no win and missus in bed, the evening went a bit tits up. Eventually I won - no film, but a satisfactory sleep nevertheless!
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:LOL:

On another note, is everybody using the keeper as their last defender at all ? By that, I mean bringing him out with Triangle ? I used this alot in PES 2011 to narrow the angle and spread myself to dive at strikers feet. It works very well in PES 2012 as well. I'm still not sure what button it is to make the keeper dive and spread himself, I just mash all the face buttons and it works.
 
Loving this game and eveything, but damn, just lost the past couple of games due to shitty goalkeeping, all is even then i concede some whack ass goal my blind nan could have kept out. Not bothered about odd goalkeeping mistakes costing you on ocassion, but this is a waaay to common occurunce. Goalkeepers really let you down big time in this game. Really offputting.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
:LOL:

On another note, is everybody using the keeper as their last defender at all ? By that, I mean bringing him out with Triangle ? I used this alot in PES 2011 to narrow the angle and spread myself to dive at strikers feet. It works very well in PES 2012 as well. I'm still not sure what button it is to make the keeper dive and spread himself, I just mash all the face buttons and it works.
Click to expand...

I often bring him out to save a 1 v 1 but I only initiate the coming out part. I did notice the Tottenham keeper come out on his own accord a lot though.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
The next game was just beautiful, I made sure everything went through D'Alessandro and what an astonishing 90 minutes he had. He scored two truly stunning goals, one of which was a tight dribble and an R1 dink. The other was the best R2 'First Touch control' I have ever seen on any football game. I clipped the ball into him, as the ball was coming thigh-height, I tapped R2 and pushed the left stick in the direction I wanted him to take it. It worked perfect, as it left the CB for dead with one of the most stunning first-touches you will ever see. And all done with our friend, R2. The finish then matched the first-touch, as he used the outside of his left foot to power/place the ball into the top corner with R2 again. It truly was my most favourite goal yet, I love a great first-touch, and exactly what I had attempted to do, worked. Perfectly.

Before this match I'd reset up my Link Feints. I stopped with Demo 1 as it never saved and it was proving to be a ball-ache to do it again everytime. I set up my Feints to use for specific situations, and I use them in the Player View Config. This means that each Feint is relevant to the player and his position. I much prefer that is it's more organic and easier to learn.

For those who wish to give this system a try, I will list my Feint List Set-up for you to replicate. Each trick/feint is relevant for the given situation. You will find these feel natural to the players posture and position.

Player View Forward -

1. Front Flick (to the Right)
2. Roulette ( to the Left)

I picked these as when your coming straight on to your opponent, it feels natural. Your player with flick the ball to his right then perform a 360 to the left. It may sound flambuoyant, but I dont feel it is. In real-life if you were to flick the ball to the right initially, your body-posture and angle for a right-footed player is perfect for this combo, as your natural body-weight is pefectly set for the 360'. This feint is excellent for changing direction twice in a close space, especially just outside the box. It's also a very easy combo to pull off in real-life.

Player View - Right -

1. Outside Step-Over ( to the Right)

This is my favourite trick, very easy to pull off and it gives you a brilliant change of direction with a drop of the shoulder. A great feint to buy time.

Player View - Backwards -

1. Drag Through ( To the Right)
2. Reverse Step-Over (To the Left)
3. Drag Through (To the Left)
4. Heel-Flick Follow Through (To the Right) This is the 3rd Trick down from the top I believe, I will need to check it's proper name.

This Feint-Link may sound very flash, it isnt. The idea of this combo is to bait an opponent into the tackle. You should only use this combo when stationary. Your player will drag the ball to his right, he will then fake to go to his left but he doesnt. He will then drag the ball to his left before going back to the right with his heel-flick. Every part of this combo is realistically balanced with body-weight. D'Alessandro used it in the video I will be posting later to great effect. In fact, the heel-flick 'megged' the CPU defender. The theory behind this combo worked perfect, exactly how I'd designed it to work. It's also a great combo to use with tricky wingers from the byline when in a stationary position.

Player View - Left -

1. Outside Step-Over ( To the left )

I have used this feint again to balance to out the left and right side. It also means that by having for the player left or right, even if you get confused, it will always work. Again, in the video I will post of D'Alessandro, he performs this to 'hoodwink' three CPU players in a tight space. He then 'megs' a player with a tap of R2, before picking out a stunning lobbed through-ball.

Hope this helps, I will upload the D'Alessandro Encore later. It includes those two goals mentioned, and some of those Feint examples. :)
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Sorry to quote my own post, but I just wanted to highlight what I meant with the R2 First Touch. Amazing. Also, my Link Feint Combo's in effect.

YouTube - Encore D'Alessandro

Sorry for those you cant see with an I-Phone, I wish I knew in advance which tunes Youtube would allow.FFS.
 
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LTFC said:
That's strange, I find the AI plays lots of misplaced passes. Or, at least, passes I can intercept or are 50-50 balls that are there to be won.

As for my own passing game, I'm loving how I'm having to think about where to play the ball to my players in order to keep forward momentum for the team. It's a key aspect of the real sport that this game is beautifully replicating, and IMO hasn't been given enough, if any credit. I've literally had attacking moves fall completely by the wayside becuase on zero assistance I'd passed to a wide player, for example, but rather than playing it into his path ready to take in his stride, I've played it just a fraction behind his run which causes him to have to stop, check back, before taking control of the ball. By the short time this takes has happened, the AI is in a far stronger defensive position. It happens in real life all the time, countless times I've seen counter attacks ruined by, say, an attacker playing it wide but putting the ball slightly too far in front of their supporting player which ends up forcing him wider than anticipated, and the attack breaks down becuase it forced him away from goal momentarily.

So while passes might still be more accurate in terms of reaching their target, the pace and direction of a pass in relation to the movement of the player awaiting the ball has a substantial impact. Which I like. Alot.
Click to expand...

what a great point mate, i couldnt concur more. you really do need to make every pass count - no more pinging it about without concentrating.

i have already put a number of simple passes out of touch, not even attacking passes either but cross field ones or across the back 4
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
:LOL:

On another note, is everybody using the keeper as their last defender at all ? By that, I mean bringing him out with Triangle ? I used this alot in PES 2011 to narrow the angle and spread myself to dive at strikers feet. It works very well in PES 2012 as well. I'm still not sure what button it is to make the keeper dive and spread himself, I just mash all the face buttons and it works.
Click to expand...

All the time. Had their striker clean through a few times and had my keeper get outside of the box at times. Does a cracking job although the CPU has done some nice finishes as well.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
:LOL:

On another note, is everybody using the keeper as their last defender at all ? By that, I mean bringing him out with Triangle ? I used this alot in PES 2011 to narrow the angle and spread myself to dive at strikers feet. It works very well in PES 2012 as well. I'm still not sure what button it is to make the keeper dive and spread himself, I just mash all the face buttons and it works.
Click to expand...

Yes i do it, when i feel the need. The other night i did exactly that with Bayern's keeper and he clattered into the milan forward and gave away a penalty.

On another note, i have just seen my 5 game winning run on pro level come to an end losing 3-2 to Milan as spurs. All i have done different is let the manager control the tactics. Before when i was tinkering myself i was getting slaughtered. It shows i am useless with tactics and formations.
 
hi chaps,

not sure if it was r2 but i had a situation where d'alessandro went to ball at edge of box and then quickly turned and dummied it, defender knee nudged him in thigh as he went past to retrive ball to give away a free kick

totally awesome

Jimmy G-Force said:
Sorry to quote my own post, but I just wanted to highlight what I meant with the R2 First Touch. Amazing.

YouTube - Encore D'Alessandro

Sorry for those you cant see with an I-Phone, I wish I knew in advance which tunes Youtube would allow.FFS.
Click to expand...
 
I think there's a dummy button separate to R2 (L2 maybe). But if you use R2 when the ball is almost there you can turn without it and create space. I still think the demo's not that polished so I'm hoping there's a lot of things ironed out for the retail version.
 
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