PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

curdstar said:
That is very much the focus of feedback - along with whatever quirks this game throws up - for PES2013 I can assure you... and Konami are listening :))
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That's reassuring to know, Alan.

Just to make it clear to others who perhaps interpreted my last post as a statement that the gameplay needs no further improvement: well, that's clearly not the case and I don't feel they should get complacent. However, Konami are in a strong position with the work they've done on the AI and all the general gameplay improvements over the last couple of years. They have a great football sim on their hands, even if it's visually jarring. Getting the animations up to current-gen standards would add a huge amount to the existing gameplay, so that's why it should be the number one focus, but we all know Seabass will tinker with the gameplay for 2013. And so he should.
 
Theirs a lot of work that can easily be laid out for 13'

Goalkeepers
Animations
Individuality (in terms of fluff of adding things to make them look as well as feel unique)
Defensive AI - ( in terms of the team keeping shape and reacting to things quicker)
Possession - playing Barcelona should be a nightmare in terms of the amount of the ball you'll be able to get a hold off.
Graphics.

In that order.
 
Jamezinho said:
Konami have done the donkey work over the last two years, transforming the gameplay and AI, so next year there can be no excuses for sub-standard animations and visuals. I think Konami need to almost exclusively dedicate their resources to the visuals over the next 12 months. The gameplay is there, it just needs some tweaks and subtle improvements.

PES2012 will be a great game, but Konami really have the chance to knock it out of the park next year. I hope the feedback emphasises that the so-called "fluff" needs a much-needed overhaul. Konami should not be ashamed to do an EA and make the gameplay a lesser priority.
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Animations top priority next year plus all the rest of missing features from Ps2 games.
About animations you can feel that they ruin the feeling with the game when watching replays. It's really a shame.
 
YoungGun_UK said:
Theirs a lot of work that can easily be laid out for 13'

Goalkeepers
Animations
Individuality (in terms of fluff of adding things to make them look as well as feel unique)
Defensive AI - ( in terms of the team keeping shape and reacting to things quicker)
Possession - playing Barcelona should be a nightmare in terms of the amount of the ball you'll be able to get a hold off.
Graphics.

In that order.
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I can only talk from experience, and I am pretty sure both Rom and Rod would agree with me here, but Barca on Super Star difficulty were fantastically realised in preview code. It was ''joyous torture'' :D

I do think this demo only shows so much in terms of difficulty. PES has always had that step up in terms of challenge when you compare playing against the COM in exhibition, to that of when you take them on in a competitive game mode. Home/Away plays it's part too and I think this is the ''secret'' difficulty of which Seabass has been known to speak of in the past.
 
Ameppe said:
Animations top priority next year plus all the rest of missing features from Ps2 games.

About animations you can feel that they ruin the feeling with the game when watching replays. It's really a shame.
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Agreed on both points. In particular I'd like to see the stadium count increased. I know we've got the stadium editor, but it's fairly useless in my opinion. I miss all the stadia from PES5 like the Parc des Princes, Stade Velodrome, Mestalla, Rasunda, de Kuip etc.....although I realise licensing issues may be at work here.

Also, the edit mode could do with some more options. I still feel it's not up to PES5 standards.

Regarding animations: just look at the demo feedback. How many people talk about PES2012 looking rigid and dated? Animations do make the game feel more real, and hence, immersive. Some people just can't get used to PES after the fluidity and smoothness of Fifa, and to be honest I can't blame them.
 
I think the animations obviously need to see a fair jump in quality but right now? Functional and not without some variety.

I seldom use replays as a means to identify animation (animation flow at least) shortcomings as the game on next gen has always suffered from framerate drops in replays which actually make it all look that little more ugly than it really is, not that I am saying they are perfect or of a stunningly high level out with the replays.
 
Jamezinho said:
Some people just can't get used to PES after the fluidity and smoothness of Fifa, and to be honest I can't blame them.
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But only initially. I had a similar feeling when I gave PES 2011 ago after a couple years of FIFA, but after a few weeks you don't notice it. It's ultimately the depth of the gameplay that keeps people playing, why FIFA falls short after a month or so.

Animations are good are drawing people in but I'll be bitterly disappointed if Konami choose to primarily focus on the aesthetics next year.
 
dannyfc2 said:
Just out of interest Rom, did you play much offline ML last year? Every iteration I try and get into it, but ultimately lose interest after a couple weeks because of the AI.

This year's looks more of a challenge in attack and less ruthless in defence so I'm hoping it'll last me a fair while. Given the choice I'd never venture online if the CPU AI was a varied, adequate opponent. Wouldn't have to put up with the morons online and could get stuck into the fantasy elements.

Just hope it doesn't become undervalued by sweetspots and certain weaknesses (lack of ball retention/overpowered crosses)
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Not much at all. I really didn't enjoy playing the CPU at all last year, not one bit. It was online or bust for me... or BaL, for which I completed 4 or 5 seasons as Chimpanzidane, a lanky, elegant sprayer of passes. Except he wasn't that elegant because I often had to do the running of the entire team. Still really enjoyed it up to the last season.

FL this year, on the other hand, looks unmissable, whether as player or manager.
 
Gab_ said:
I cut Short passing accuracy, Long passing accuracy, Shooting accuracy, Header accuracy and Freekick accuracy by ~30%. Then decreased dribbling speed and dribbling accuracy by 10. Globally on every player. It plays awesome now IMO. Will do the same with full release... can't wait to start my BAL career.
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Can you do this by just changing it once and it changes all the players in the game? or do you have to do it for every player individualy?
 
curdstar said:
I think the animations obviously need to see a fair jump in quality but right now? Functional and not without some variety.
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The animations are certainly not bad at all. Many of them are very good, in fact. It's the linking of animations that's the issue and I probably sound like a broken record for saying this again, but the players often snap between animations without transition, which gives the game a jarring look. Also, there needs to be more animations for different running and kicking styles, both player-specific and general.

Throw in these two things and the game will flow wonderfully.
 
pes2012gonbegood said:
Can you do this by just changing it once and it changes all the players in the game? or do you have to do it for every player individualy?
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You can do it for every player in one go. Not sure if there is an edit tool that lets you globally edit stats for demo 2. I know there was an stat editor for demo 1 that had global change (PES2012 DEMO EDITOR), where you can put in for example remove 30% on all freekicks. Not sure if that tool works on demo 2. Otherwise you have to export the stats to a CSV file, then do it in excel/calc. In those program you can copy a value, then "paste special" on a whole column and choose for example to divide by the number you copied. But it's kind of a pain in the ass, so it's better if there is a tool for it.

--------------------------

About what to work on for PES 2013, I agree with the stuff mentioned, but I really want them to work on ball physics on shooting. I want R2 shots to result in the same beautiful curling, top spinning, shots like we have on freekicks. Shooting still feels too much the same in PES, I want much more variety in spin on the ball.

So, in order:

Top spin
Unique error based touches
Fluff

:SMUG:
 
Cross headers are ruining the game. I just played with a friend and he got 2 goals this way and once again my defenders are leaving the attackers all alone :(
 
dannyfc2 said:
But only initially. I had a similar feeling when I gave PES 2011 ago after a couple years of FIFA, but after a few weeks you don't notice it. It's ultimately the depth of the gameplay that keeps people playing, why FIFA falls short after a month or so.

Animations are good are drawing people in but I'll be bitterly disappointed if Konami choose to primarily focus on the aesthetics next year.
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And that's it. Animations are nice and do help with the air of fluidity but gameplay is king. That's why the depth of something like PES 2010 passed by most people because they couldn't get used to the rigid animations compared to FIFA. Once you got past it it was like a hidden treasure. I suppose if you like a casual kickabout the animations, licences and gloss of FIFA will do, but for depth its always been PES.

And another thing, I think one thing that hardly anyone ever mentions are PES' underrated player models, which are far better looking than FIFA's strange, sloped, stick like figures. PES players look like real footballers, and that can be more convincing than smooth animations as well.
 
shorty alien said:
And another thing, I think one thing that hardly anyone ever mentions are PES' underrated player models, which are far better looking than FIFA's strange, sloped, stick like figures. PES players look like real footballers, and that can be more convincing than smooth animations as well.
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Agreed. EA just can't get those player models right, and I still think the player faces look a bit plasticky.
 
RunBUG said:
Cross headers are ruining the game. I just played with a friend and he got 2 goals this way and once again my defenders are leaving the attackers all alone :(
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There's a lot that needs fixing, not just crossing. It's doing my head in as the core fundamentals in this game are excellent, but for me personally the experience is nearly ruined by all the flaws, bugs and stupidities. Every other game the goalkeeper single-handedly destroys the immersion, and I now more or less force myself not to shoot from distance as it's almost a free goal with the right players.
 
shorty alien said:
And another thing, I think one thing that hardly anyone ever mentions are PES' underrated player models, which are far better looking than FIFA's strange, sloped, stick like figures. PES players look like real footballers, and that can be more convincing than smooth animations as well.
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Yeah I'd agree with that as well. FIFA models do look like weight lifters, and faces have an odd plasticky feel to them. PES faces are far more accurate. I like the addition this year of sweat on the players' faces in PES, looks really good up close.

I also really agree with what Jamezinho said earlier about Konami and the next PES after this one. The basis is there to make more subtle tweaks to gameplay rather than massive overhauls, and would really benefit from updating the graphics, sound, presentation in general. If they brought these up to standard of some of the top console games around, this game would be unbelievable. Better graphics, lighting, animation, sounds, more stadiums, better options in stadium editing, would compliment any tweaks to gameplay they'll need to do this year.
 
RunBUG said:
Cross headers are ruining the game. I just played with a friend and he got 2 goals this way and once again my defenders are leaving the attackers all alone :(
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A cross & header resulting in a goal more than once in a single game? This game is surely broken. Until I witness or experience a match where there is a 100% success rate (in retail code) for this I refuse to get overly concerned. Demo's by their very nature will never be fully rep of a game. Sure, the text on initial boot says the experience is ''representative of what the match experience will be like'' but it is still a pretty ambiguous statement. Not that I am saying there is some massive jump that awaits for us all but I would bet good money on a review code player for these past three weeks offering comment that in spite of it (the demo) being largely the same, it is still missing a few wee things from gameplay. Bare in mind also that review code is 90% complete and for all that the bulk of the remaining 10% will be the addition of art assets and a little visual polish, final little but potentially important tweaks can manifest.

I recommend trying to utilise alternate techniques such as selecting a player in the box or assigning man-marking duties pre-game. Maybe look at using the attack/defence emphasis to bring your team more deep. All potential solutions but none are guaranteed
 
Anyone got any tips I need help with dribbling around defenders with the ball without doing a wide circle and getting your forwards to make runs off the last defender for through balls so there 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper thanks
 
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curdstar said:
I recommend trying to utilise alternate techniques such as selecting a player in the box or assigning man-marking duties pre-game. Maybe look at using the attack/defence emphasis to bring your team more deep. All potential solutions but none are guaranteed
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Ok. And what of the Top Player CPU seemingly fail to deal with any of them? Or are we obviously supposed to ignore crossing the ball altogether, as it's clearly an exploit....
 
dannyfc2 said:
Ok. And what of the Top Player CPU seemingly fail to deal with any of them? Or are we obviously supposed to ignore crossing the ball altogether, as it's clearly an exploit....
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Does it have a 100% success rate? It's a valid question you ask in all honesty.

I am not saying it isn't a potential exploit but I will say I personally haven't felt crossing to be an exploit. Does that mean it doesn't exist at all? Of course not. There are a few on PESFan saying that crosses don't work at all; a complete contrast to what is being said by some here and elsewhere and something I certainly disagree with but it does show that the impact of this exploit isn't been felt by all which can only be a good thing as at the very least it isn't a gamebreaker as a gamebreaker is something that completely destroys the game.

If it's there I want it addressed. I'll consider myself no more than lucky for the moment that I am not getting the impression that it is an exploit. Again, I am not ruling it out.
 
That gif.... lol

Oh, and welcome back Klash. I'd like to know your thoughts on the game so far.

Btw, i just beat INter and Bayer on a raw playing with Spurs (1 x 0 and 2 x 1 respectively) on Top Player, 0 bar assistance and -1 speed. Great achievment.
 
DuduBR9 said:
That gif.... lol

Oh, and welcome back Klash. I'd like to know your thoughts on the game so far.

Btw, i just beat INter and Bayer on a raw playing with Spurs (1 x 0 and 2 x 1 respectively) on Top Player, 0 bar assistance and -1 speed. Great achievment.
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Jamezinho said:
Ah, Kobayklashi......how are we?
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I'm good thanks, yeah, I’ve been away from here while all this news and demo's have been released.

I've been away because I’ve hugely changed as a person. I've corrected and sorted out many of the issues and lot term problems I’ve had and discovered so much about life, this realm we live in and much more. I got a bit put off by games, since I’ve found out electricity isn’t actually a good substance to use to develop technology, also machines and programs are inherently stupid and the combination of the two will always be flawed. Also these companies are just flat out lying about improving games and instead are just making them over glossy and focusing so much on them being repetitive. Also I’ve learned

I'll back for here with the tactics, discussions etc. I love helping people and discussing things so I see what I can do. I'll be around but I won't quite be the same monster who tried to rip anyone to shreds who I argued with. I had a glance around at the forums and I see certain people making tons of posts now which they weren’t making before :LOL:

I must apologize to anyone on this forum I just barked at in my frustration at, here if I’ve been to strong on a issue and I haven’t tried to see it from their perspective. I have a much better understanding of how people come up with their opinions now :

I’ve played all the demo's btw, FIFA, PES demo 1 and 2. I actually quite happy with them, they aren't perfect, FIFA is fun at least this year and PES isn't the exact game I wanted but I can't have my cake and eat it :)
 
Ok so been playing all day and went from professional to top player and its alot more fun and easier.
It reminds me of the old pes arguements on the ps2 between top player and superstar with the ai being more compact but not attacking as much on top player as superstar.

Top player in the demo actualy allows me to play the through balls i want and play a much more counter attack game dribbling aggainst last defenders etc like pes of old.
It is so much easier and fun but you still have to defend well as the ai can be lethal

Cant wait to try Superstar in the full release
 
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