PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

fideco said:
I'm very disappointed about defense:too easy to concede goal...
I think defense is broken because AI attackers and midfielders have been tweaked up too much in 2nd demo by Konami.
In other words, no matter who is the AI player, his core abilities (agility, dribbling, response...) have been artificially increased and the teams are now more leveled.
I see things on the field terrifying me:Internacional players who continuously control the ball and dribble like Messi. I think there good pass rate is over 90%, while in real life is about 70%-75%.

Therefore gameplay in 2nd demo has been destroyed, in the best tradition of konami.
I'm not optimistic because Konami does not listen to his fans and makes bad decisions based only on the internal feedback Company (probably some Marketing Guru who does not understand anything about football).
< The second demo is worse than the first -----------> The final game will probably be worse than the 2nd demo>
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I'm sorry but i completely disagree. What level are you playing at?
I find that, as with demo 1, Profsssional is the best for a good all round match. Individuality is there for me, all over the pitch, a lot more so than in the first demo. Players are behaving like they would in a real game. I tend to use Bayern for the majority of my games, mainly because i like their formation, with a few tweaks.
Just scored an absolute pearler with Schweinsteiger which was so typical of him. It was a real rocket which was swerving to the left the moment he hit it. No goalkeeper in the world would have saved it.
I have no problem with defending either. Maybe it has just 'clicked' for me, but it's not nearly as bad as you are making out.
 
makky said:
I'm sorry but i completely disagree. What level are you playing at?
I find that, as with demo 1, Profsssional is the best for a good all round match. Individuality is there for me, all over the pitch, a lot more so than in the first demo. Players are behaving like they would in a real game. I tend to use Bayern for the majority of my games, mainly because i like their formation, with a few tweaks.
Just scored an absolute pearler with Schweinsteiger which was so typical of him. It was a real rocket which was swerving to the left the moment he hit it. No goalkeeper in the world would have saved it.
I have no problem with defending either. Maybe it has just 'clicked' for me, but it's not nearly as bad as you are making out.
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I'm on professional...
Try doing a test using a less strong team...
 
makky said:
Why? I already know a lesser team isn't going to be as good as Bayern or Inter at defending, but i've been ok with Tottenham as well. Defend like your life depended on it.
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Sorry,but when i watch a overall player rip right and left through my defenders,while I use every technique possible to stop him i start to worry...(Obviously this does not always happen, but it happens often ...)

I get suspicious and checking its values i see 76 of dribbling...

Therefore, I wonder how is it possible?
 
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*sigh* There's little joy in scoring from outside the box at the moment, combination of slack keeping an accurate shooting across the board means 7/10 will fly in.
 
Ok, so I've finally just managed to get a few more games in, the Copa Teams as usual, Zero Pass Assistance and all Assists Off.

Firstly Zee,

I understand the whole pride element with needing to play Top Player, but honest bud, there is no shame in trying Professional. That is my preferred level by a long way. I dont feel the need to have to prove myself to the CPU, or myself. I know my way around PES, and thats good enough for me. I play PES to have fun, thats the primary driver, but I also want realism. And for me, that's Professional level. As long as I'm getting a challenge, then I'm happy to remain on Pro. And I'm getting that, and some. I'm not ashamed to say I've been on the wrong end of a couple of 5-0 drubbings, all on Pro.

Anyway, I'll explain why it's better. I've just played 5 games, always with Inter v Americas. Scores were 0-1, 1-1, 2-2, 2-2. Those games were on Pro. I then played against Top Player, the game ended 2-2 again. But the match was totally different, and far less enjoyable. The stats showed Ameicas having 14(6) to my 6(4). In my games on Pro, average stats were more like 5(2)-6-(3). Top Player is alot more hectic, the CPU breaks it's neck to win back the ball and get forward as quick as possible, their organisation is alot tighter and their reading of the game alot more advanced, some would claim telepathic. I wouldnt go that far though. The game felt rushed, there was more space as the CPU committed more, leaving gaps to exploit. It wasnt fun though, I was made to play a way that was demanded, rather than on Pro were I could just play my game. Top Player Ai is coded to score as it's primary driver, and at all costs. Professional isnt, it's alot more composed and natural.

Also, this is a new philosophy that takes time to adapt, by playing Top Player to satisfy an ego, it's to your detriment in my book. You learn to play against a system, your restricted in learning the art of the game due to limited time restraints on the ball. Pro gives you time to try and experience everything, and learn what works at your own pace. Top Player in my opinion doesnt. The scores were the same on both levels, but Pro was bar far the most enjoyable. By a long, long way. Give it a whirl, and get that whole Top Player or nothing nonsense out of your head and remember what your playing PES for, to have fun, winning is just a bonus. You'll still get beat on Pro level, especially using the lesser teams, but I'll guarantee you this, you'll be smiling in defeat. Not pulling your hair out as you would with Top Player. Its a different mentality. Trust me. ;)

gerd said:
Jimmy, i'm starting to love the demo, but i can't defend...how do i defend in this game????
I'm good at it but i can't defend and can't score (so i'm rubbish really...).

Scoring will come, i'm beginning to score the odd goal now and then, but defending...i really run around like a headless chicken...a litle help would be welcome...thanks in advance.
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I'm finding the Defensive system to be highly complex the more I uncover. There is no easy fix here, and there is alot to learn. It's easier to break it down into the relevant defending techniques, of which there are many. I'm understanding most of them now, but the very tricky skill is combining them all, and using each technique at the right time. It's not one size fits all. To become a great defender in this game requires an awful lot of skill. Most of which comes from decision making.

Using X to pressure and tackle doesnt work anymore, or very rarely. It only works when your opponent has the ball out of his feet, when he shows you too much of it. Or, you get the artistic licence of a defender with high defensive stats that wins the ball cleanly with this tackle when others wouldnt.

Pressing X to advance towards the ball-carrier then holding R2 as well before you get to close will put you in jockey/contain mode. Pretty pointless in any other area bar your own initial 3rd of the pitch.

Use Semi-Assisted Cursor control, this is the most advanced for defending. You can switch between players with the right stick, and use your man to simply track the runner and show him away from goal or mark the passing channels and options. Tapping Circle will 2nd man Pressure the ball carrier. Dont hold it down constantly as it will more likely commit a rash foul, use sparingly to force an error.

Around your own box try hold X and Circle and R2. Use this as a last resort. This pressures the ball carrier with the 2nd man, and puts your controlled player into a retreat/jockey mode. If the ball-carrier beats the 2nd man, you can release R2 to put a foot in. Or, keep holding R2 and X until he comes so close your man will attempt either a tackle or block. The blocks work very well in this game.

Another option , the hardest one, is to hold R2 and retreat whilst pressing Circle for 2nd man pressure. This gives you a better option to release R2 and hold X for a timed foot-in. The reason this one is hard is because you also need to press sprint at times due to the fact you retreat at a certain pace. Holding R2 and X retreats with a measured space between you and the ball carrier, R2 on its own doesnt. It's more free, but alot harder to master.

Using all the above techniques is a lot to take in, but each one serves a purpose, but like real defending, decision making is everything. Sometimes I can get it all right, mostly I get confused with the options. It's so complex, and although practice wont make perfect, it will certainly help.

A few other observations. Zero passing is the one. It's raw and stripped down PES with stats, I love it. Every pass needs relevant weight, short lay-offs, 20 yard deck passes, lobbed though-balls, everything. And it's stat relevant wih the better passers able to take alot more liberties. A slight press of the lobbed through-ball with complete control of direction is amazing with the likes of D'Alessandro.

I love how composed play reaps benefits. The footballing philosophy is superb if adhered to. I'm getting alot of success just spraying cross-field balls to relieve congestion. This opens up a whole new outlook ahead. You have to use the Ai movement, but dont force it. We have a tendency to play short passes in enclosed areas whilst waiting for options. This can lead to forced errors due to congestion. Having a look on the map and spraying one to a wide option will alter everything in front of you as you build and start again looking for gaps and runners.

Also, using L2 and X gives a much harder zipped pass along the deck, perfect for drilling one in quick to feet over 15-20 yards. It reduces the chance of marking opponents anticipating and getting ahead of your ball-receiver.

High passes with circle a great to, space and time permitting, even over short distances. Less chance of blocked passes and it also gives you impetus with a flick on, injects a bit of speed as you change levels and gears.

I'm still finding the trigger run pass a little too effective, I hope that doesnt become an issue. Also, love the fact the keepers cannot be rounded like they also have been. They are alot quicker and narrow the angles very well. There is an issue with keepers saving longer distance shots though, and alot of that is down to their positioning, they are too flat on their goal-line. They need to be more advanced to reduce the angles. Thats a must.

Ok, that is all, need to get back to PES. And Pro level. ;)
 
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Yes, patient build up play definitely has it's benefits. That's when you see the runs your players make in the last third of the pitch. It helps to open up space when you are less direct. Instead, wait for an opportunity to arise, which it inevitably will, when going with this approach. Switching play to the other sides also allows you to 'start again' with a different build up strategy, as mentioned above. Keep the observations coming.
 
The demo just clicked for me earlier. The stuttering is still an anoyance (on 360) as well as the stuttered running glitch but the game itself is great. I love the movement most of all. the movement is so good that other faults can be ignored. It just makes each game unique. It's truly a revolutionary phase for football games on par with 360 dribbling.

Got a new vid cooking where i merked Rangers with Bayern. Some great goals here. The passing from Schweinsteiger and movement from robben and ribery is quality.

The defending is a something i feel my way through. Fifa has aped the defending in PES (they borrow much from eachother) but got the button placement all wrong. PES feel a lot more natural to me. I find it easy to disturd the CPU attack with pressing and containing until they lose the ball.

Only other thing apart from the glitches that i'm down on is the drab visuals. Hopefully this is all down to demo compression.
 
I'm keeping playing this down to a bare minimum because I wanna learn everything in the full version, but just tried a match as Spurs v Inter on Top Player. I had a lot of the play but got stuffed 2-0, by the end Inter had worn me down and began to take control, should have ended up more than 2-0. I absolutely love it :)

Everything about it feels right. The game speed, pace of play, you can play a slow build up if you want, and controlling players like Bale is a joy. I didn't even do much on one occasion and his contextual stats meant he randomly dodged between two players on the left touchline before being able to lay it off. Beautiful. On a couple of occasions, just as in real life, he popped up on the right on the break away, beasted past a couple of defenders before hitting the side netting. He can absolutely rip teams apart, but not quite enough to make dribbling with him a guaranteed success every time. Skillful players can do so much damage to defences, and this encourages you to get the ball to your creative players as soon as you can, which is again brilliant. But like I said, things as in real life rarely come off, but when they do, your top attacking players are usually at the hub of it.

I also love the organic way the ball moves. PES2011 feels so bizarre in comparison now. Shooting for me feels perfect, crossing looks fantastic, passing moves are again a joy. I also rarely have to use the new team mate controls, everyone seems to naturally get into position. I love how Hutton joins Lennon in attack for example. But when I do use it (so far just on assisted), being able to pick a player to make a run adds a new dimension without destroying individuality. It's almost every time that I make an attacker perform a run off the ball that it's with someone who would probably naturally do that anyways, be it Bale, Van Der Vaart, Lennon, Modric etc.

Finally, keepers seem fine to me, the odd gaffe here and there but Gomez pulled off a stunning save in my last match. Secondly, defending is FANTASTIC. I've finally learnt how I think it'll work for me, I close a player down manually, within a few feet, then jockey, jockey, jockey some more, then often they get in a block. If close enough, putting your tackle in while jockeying seems far more accurate too.

Oh, and one final thing, I tried the PS3 version and ran it alongside the 360 to compare, and there are clear differences. The 360 models are 'smoother' but more blurred. PS3 has more jaggies, but is very slightly sharper, which I personally prefer. Think I'll plump for PS3 this year for that reason, plus ease of editing and the 3D mode which I'm now REALLY looking forward to!
 
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Just tried some games on -2 game speed. (I also play with all the assists off, support off too).

Always stayed off it because of last year feeling like running through a bog. Completely different this year, just had a super game Tottenham v Inter.

I lost 3-0, but the time, space, and flow of the game seemed perfect. I hit the post with a drilled low shot from Bale, but once they got the lead I never got near. Switching to a more attacking formation and support led to my full backs bombing forward, but that in turn meant I was short at the back, and Pazzini punished me with 2 late goals.

The individuality of the players seems to change when the game is slowed. Pace is still there, but subtle touches become important, R2 was held almost all the time during the game. The shooting seemed even better, hit a pearler with Van Der Vaart which bent left to right past the post and smacked the stantion behind.

How do they define addiction? I think that's what I have with this demo :p
 
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I've been mucking about with the graphics on PS3 and 360 demos, and if anyone on the 360 thinks the game is fuzzy there is a (kind of) fix. Well, not a fix as such, but something which makes the game, in my opinion, a lot better looking.

First, pause the game, go to system settings, adjust screen, the ramp up the brightness to +6 (or whatever looks best, everyone's TV settings might mean this varies).

Then, go to your TV settings and adjust your TV picture sharpness to a higher level that again you prefer. It really works, the game looks much sharper and clear. I tried this on my PS3 demo though and it made the game look even worse, not sure why. I think again, like last year, the 360's smoother textures look better when the sharpness is increased in your TV. The PS3 version seems to just show up more jaggies. You'll need to reduce the picture sharpness if you're gonna use the TV for anything else as it'll make it look far too sharp, but for PES2012's blurry textures it works a treat. Try it and see if it helps.

Don't know which to go for now! PS3 has 3D, 360 is slightly better overall with the help of one or two fixes.....
 
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I tried playing pes2011 earlier, no thanks.

*uninstalled*

anyone that thinks pes2011 & 2012 are the same or similar needs their heads checking, there are clearly real big differences between the two, 2011 just felt so weird, slow, unresponsive, frustrating.... drove me barmy and I had to stop playing. Won't be going back to it again.
 
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Simcut said:
I tried playing pes2011 earlier, no thanks.

*uninstalled*

anyone that thinks pes2011 & 2012 are the same or similar needs their heads checking, there are clearly real big differences between the two, 2011 just felt so weird, slow, unresponsive, frustrating.... drove me barmy and I had to stop playing. Won't be going back to it again.
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Exactly. Plenty of differences. Just played a game with Proevo2012 (edit: 2nd demo I mean) and I must say, even though I did not win (1-1), the game was really close and it was really quite fun, especially the equalizer I managed to score. When you play ProEvo, and score a goal, it feels all the better cause you know you worked hard to get it. You don't get that with FIFA. In fact, I liked it so much I just canceled my FIFA order, even though I would basically have gotten it for about $40.
 
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Guys i'd like some clarification on dribbling. I'm pretty decent but not clear on how i'm doing so well. I know, weird. I use a combination of LT/RT on the xbox360 to keep the ball close in when i'm about to lose control. Sometimes the left stick alone is enough to beat players. But without doing tricks which triggers do you guys use and what is the purpose of the LT/L2? Isn't slow dribble on RT? I've been using both in conjunction for years and there's DEFINITELY a difference.

Going to try some TOP PLAYER now. Wish me luck :LOL:

Just made by best youtube vid yet and it just happens to be a PES one haha. Uploading. The music will definitely be taken down from youtube cause it's not even out in the shops yet so check it out early if you can :JAY:
 
I use a combination of everything, so that's not really a great answer. You can just use the left stick on it's own in this game with the right players, but LT which is also the manual pass button, imo also does something to the dribbling. I use that, R2, and a combination of L2 and the right stick to do that sideways dribble. It can be used to bypass defenders nicely.

Good luck on Top Player, I just got spanked 5-1 by Inter, Eto'o is crazy in this. Tore me apart. I did score a beauty though, a Lennon cross and Bale diving header from a late run. Loving this game!
 
LTFC said:
I use a combination of everything, so that's not really a great answer. You can just use the left stick on it's own in this game with the right players, but LT which is also the manual pass button, imo also does something to the dribbling. I use that, R2, and a combination of L2 and the right stick to do that sideways dribble. It can be used to bypass defenders nicely.

Good luck on Top Player, I just got spanked 5-1 by Inter, Eto'o is crazy in this. Tore me apart. I did score a beauty though, a Lennon cross and Bale diving header from a late run. Loving this game!
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Both Eto'o and Bale are extremely good. I just had Bale do a superb run through my defence and slot in an absolutely sublime left-footed goal. So much like the goal he scored against Inter in the CL last year it's not even funny. :TTTH:
 
LTFC said:
I use a combination of everything, so that's not really a great answer. You can just use the left stick on it's own in this game with the right players, but LT which is also the manual pass button, imo also does something to the dribbling. I use that, R2, and a combination of L2 and the right stick to do that sideways dribble. It can be used to bypass defenders nicely.

Good luck on Top Player, I just got spanked 5-1 by Inter, Eto'o is crazy in this. Tore me apart. I did score a beauty though, a Lennon cross and Bale diving header from a late run. Loving this game!
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Ah nice. I kind of do the same. I sometimes bust out a manual pass when i see a tight space and need that extra precision. Man this game nails it. I pray for the 360 glitches to vanish on release and we have a game better than PES5 imo. Seriously.

Playing top player in the Copa and doing alright. won one 1-0 and drew one. It's tight and there are mistakes everywhere. If you lose concentration though the CPU wakes up and tries to rape you. :CONFUSE::SHOCK:

Loving Robben at the moment. I can't wait for my youtube to finish uploading. You guys HAVE to see the goal i scored it's identical to how Robben always scores haha.
 
I am very confused about the passing assistance. When lowering the pass assistance what exactly does it do? Does it take away from player stats and make it more manual? What i am looking for is player individuality. Which bar (0-4) would allow for the most individuality? Since that is what makes PES PES. I want to play as Juve with Pirlo and be able to play balls around the pitch that i couldn't do with anyone else in the game.
 
BTW with defending in top player always use you secondary guy to close ETo'o. Also contain with RT and A and force the CPU to pass. PREFERABLY AWAY FROM ETO'O :LOL:

Vid is up btw. No lie, the match i put on youtube is the one that everything in the demo just CLICKED for me. No beating and competing with TOP PLAYER teams.

Feels just like the old days with PES.
 
I tried -2 speed. By far the best option. Cpu don't pass in light speed. There are many cpu plays that seem to be impossibe to defend against, so fast that it's impossible to guess what they are planning to do. Dribbling is like it should be, much more realistic.

I think some first touchs nimations could be slightly faster.

The game feels more balanced, but therefore easier (at least in my first attempt).
 
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Wow, first match on -2 speed, top player. Atm, i'm winning by 3 x 0, in 49 min.

My skills start to shine in -2 speed, but the game definetly becomes easier.
 
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DuduBR9 said:
Wow, furst match on -2 speed, top player. Atm, i'm winning by 3 x 0, in 49 min.

My skills start to shine in -2 speed, but the game definetly bemoes easier.
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nice one man. I just beat Inter with my beloved Spurs 3-1 on top player. Such an epic game. a penalty 1 and a free kick from VdV and a header from lennon from an awesome cross :LOL:

ETO'O scored a screamer. Infact ETO'O was the CLEAR danger of the game. He beat players and tackled back deep. He made dangerous DANGEROUS runs. Bale was making awesome runs and skipping between challenges. Drawing freekicks etc. So good.

I'm totally in love with PES2012 atm.
 
gameklip said:
nice one man. I just beat Inter with my beloved Spurs 3-1 on top player. Such an epic game. a penalty 1 and a free kick from VdV and a header from lennon from an awesome cross :LOL:

ETO'O scored a screamer. Infact ETO'O was the CLEAR danger of the game. He beat players and tackled back deep. He made dangerous DANGEROUS runs. Bale was making awesome runs and skipping between challenges. Drawing freekicks etc. So good.

I'm totally in love with PES2012 atm.
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Are you playing in -2 speed ?

In -2 speed cpu dribbling skills are more believable, the defending system with r2+X is more efficient in a good way. Fantastic!:WORSHIP: Individuality clearly becomes more evident.

But unfortunetly, -2 speed really tones down what the cpu is really good at: dribbling and some nice quick passing. But these quick passes that cpu does in other speed settings are so fast at times (imo) that when they start passing in that pace, it seems that i can't do anything, i know i'm going to concede a goal.:CONFUSE:

Althouh, i need to play more in -2. Hard challenges will come.
 
I am very confused about the passing assistance. When lowering the pass assistance what exactly does it do? Does it take away from player stats and make it more manual? What i am looking for is player individuality. Which bar (0-4) would allow for the most individuality? Since that is what makes PES PES. I want to play as Juve with Pirlo and be able to play balls around the pitch that i couldn't do with anyone else in the game.
 
DuduBR9 said:
Are you playing in -2 speed ?

In -2 speed cpu dribbling skills are more believable, the defending system with r2+X is more efficient in a good way. Fantastic!:WORSHIP: Individuality clearly becomes more evident.

But unfortunetly, -2 speed really tones down what the cpu is really good at: dribbling and some nice quick passing. But these quick passes that cpu does in other speed settings are so fast at times (imo) that when they start passing in that pace, it seems that i can't do anything, i know i'm going to concede a goal.:CONFUSE:

Althouh, i need to play more in -2. Hard challenges will come.
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Nah i'm playing on 0 but this is slow for me compared to what I came off of. (FIFA :LOL:)
 
gameklip said:
Nah i'm playing on 0 but this is slow for me compared to what I came off of. (FIFA :LOL:)
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lol i know...

But for me, in -2 speed defending is a joy, it's much better to plan what to do in varied situations. Cpu attackin moves are way more realistic and it's a joy to watch.

I just got beaten by 2-0 Spurs (me) vs Bayer. Now i'm safe to say it has everythin to be te best football game i ever played with some gap (at east offline).
:BOP:
 
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