PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Pere Ubu said:
Couple more obvious issues: when you're not in possession of the ball, your player's speed means nothing. Maicon was running down the wing, I got control of Bale and set off after him. Maicon (with the ball) stayed ahead of Bale (sprinting full-on without the ball) for about 40 yards. It's like the catch-up problem from 2011 in reverse. This is really, really bad. Also, I'm starting to think that this right-stick thing, where you select players to aim for at set pieces, is useless. Even top free kick takers don't seem to understand that they should be putting the ball slightly in front of the man at a corner, so he can make a run and attack the ball. They seem to either aim for his head where he's standing (which only works for Peter Crouch), or else just hoof it in his vague direction - and by the time the X appears on the ground to show where the ball's going, it's usually wrong, and if you've started running the player already, his momentum means he can't change direction in time. Alternatively, if you don't make the run until the X appears, it's too late to actually reach the ball. Whereas when I tried corners the old way (into the mixer with R2 and swerve) I had a lot more success, the computer selecting an appropriate player and allowing me to attack the ball properly. Done that way, corners are in fact much nicer than in 2011, but it seems a bit of a missed opportunity.

Don't know if it's just me, but the "active AI" seems a bit less pronounced, too. It's all very nice in midfield, but when you get into the final third (or when you're trying to break) you still get the same problem as before: you're there with the ball, three players ahead of you, and they're just standing there like idiots, being marked and offering barely any movement at all. Occasionally you see someone moving, and can hit them with the pass, but more often in the last third it's the same frustration as in PES2011. What happened to the diagonal runs, dummy runs, all that stuff we were promised in those super-duper preview vids? Konami went out of their way to boast about these, making individual videos to illustrate them in mouth-watering detail... and they're not there. What the fuck?

Basically Demo 2 seems more like PES2011 in every way. In some areas that's not a bad thing, in others it is. Not sure about this game yet, even though there's clearly something fantastic in there somewhere. Will persevere.
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What version are you playing Ps3/pc/xbox?

The sprint thing has been added to make positioning more vital and to lessen (or maybe completely) remove over pressure (that's what i think at least). I haven't even noticed this to be quite honest, but i've read about this quite a lot. I like how it is now though.

Regarding OTB control with R3, I was actually impressed with players putting the ball in front of the player, when you're experience the exact opposite.. how weird :/
Maybe this has to do with having space for the player to run into, if there isn't any space the kicker just sends it straight to his head (i'm just guessing here, but that would make somewhat sense)
 
Pere Ubu said:
Basically Demo 2 seems more like PES2011 in every way. In some areas that's not a bad thing, in others it is. Not sure about this game yet, even though there's clearly something fantastic in there somewhere. Will persevere.
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Agreed.

Also, here's another thought.
IMO, demo 1 with Yair's patch (PC) is like demo 2 in many ways.
However, the AI is more unpredictable in demo 1 - but in a good way.
In demo 2, I don't shit myself when the AI attacks.

Jimmy said that he was finding it harder to score in demo 2 (1-0, 0-0 etc, rather than 4-3, 3-3) so by this example, the AI is also finding it harder to score.
 
Hicksville said:
Agreed.

Also, here's another thought.
IMO, demo 1 with Yair's patch (PC) is like demo 2 in many ways.
However, the AI is more unpredictable in demo 1 - but in a good way.
In demo 2, I don't shit myself when the AI attacks.
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The AI feels slightly dumbed down in demo 2, they don't pass around well enough for my taste (like demo 1) Of course unlike demo 1 they don't take you on 1on1 every chance they get, but that's a good tweak.
I barely lose on Professional and barely concede goals due to the CPU AI playing me completely off the map which did happen quite a lot in demo 1. I usually have more possession as well regardless of team quality or how offensive, dangerous I am around/in their half.

But i think all in all demo 1 was a bit 'too' loose gameplay/feeling wise. So maybe it was just because of the gameplay physics not being incorporated well enough (Beta)

Agreed with Yair patch playing much like demo 2, i noticed this too
 
amier said:
The AI feels slightly dumbed down in demo 2, they don't pass around well enough for my taste (like demo 1) Of course unlike demo 1 they don't take you on 1on1 every chance they get, but that's a good tweak.
I barely lose on Professional and barely concede goals due to the CPU AI playing me completely off the map which did happen quite a lot in demo 1. I usually have more possession as well regardless of team quality or how offensive, dangerous I am around/in their half.

But i think all in all demo 1 was a bit 'too' loose gameplay/feeling wise. So maybe it was just because of the gameplay physics not being incorporated well enough (Beta)

Agreed with Yair patch playing much like demo 2, i noticed this too
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Yeah, the unpatched first demo was quite loose.
 
Hicksville said:
They were all two player? if so, fair point.
Do you find it slightly easier to defend on demo 2 though? I know I do.
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Yes, at times. I thought this the other day though, and was about to post it. Then I went in at half-time 3-0 down, so I guess I reconsidered. :CONFUSE:

They are not as aggressive as they are in Demo 1 for the most part, but they still give me problems. I expect the full release to be somewhere in between, I genuinely do. I also think that it had something to do with the tactics. Santos played on the Quick-Counter, the new Copa Teams dont by default.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Yes, at times. I thought this the other day though, and was about to post it. Then I went in at half-time 3-0 down, so I guess I reconsidered. :CONFUSE:

They are not as aggressive as they are in Demo 1 for the most part, but they still give me problems. I expect the full release to be somewhere in between, I genuinely do. I also think that it had something to do with the tactics. Santos played on the Quick-Counter, the new Copa Teams dont by default.
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Good point about the tactics.. didn't really consider that

I also wonder what the deal is with the fixed man mark settings that for some reason cannot be turned off in the demo.. I think this causes more problems at times then it does good.. especially leaving the people on-side situation comes to mind. I think this all has to do with the man mark thing
 
CPU in Demo 2 is not as aggressive as Demo 1, feels like they have been dumbed down a bit which is a shame... :/

By the way, those of you playing the demo on PC, try unticking frame skipping if you have a decent PC, I find the game plays better and its not as frantic with that setting unticked, give it a try ticked & unticked and see if you feel a difference.

As much as I love this game so far, the weird things put me off a bit, like the ball being inside a player's body and stuff like that, players running through one another and so on, just looks shabby, really hope Konami can, for the 2013 game, keep the 2012 gameplay and work on other areas of improvement which are much needed. They are very close to achieving greatness I think.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Speaking of Kick-Off animations, has anyone seen this cheeky little fella ?

YouTube - Cheeky Kick Off animation
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Yes, it happened to me last night... except that I was kicking off after going 1-0 down in the 88th minute, so it didn't feel terribly appropriate.

Worried that this might happen a bit too often in fact, but it's hardly a major complaint.


amier said:
I also wonder what the deal is with the fixed man mark settings that for some reason cannot be turned off in the demo.. I think this causes more problems at times then it does good.. especially leaving the people on-side situation comes to mind. I think this all has to do with the man mark thing
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Are you sure there are fixed man mark settings? Is it not like before, where there's a grey line connecting players, but man-marking only becomes active when you select it and the line turns red?
 
Simcut said:
CPU in Demo 2 is not as aggressive as Demo 1, feels like they have been dumbed down a bit which is a shame I think.

By the way, those of you playing the demo on PC, try unticking frame skipping if you have a decent PC, I find the game plays better and its not as frantic with that setting unticked, give it a try ticked & unticked and see if you feel a difference.
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Maybe they could do the CPU AI of demo 1 with the current feel of demo 2. And slightly less 1on1 provocations. I'd be a happy man
 
I'm really struggling against AI on professional level.
It seems to me now it's hard to score and hard to defend than the first demo..
Players like Robben or Riberry seems impossible to catch (dribbling scripting??), instead AI defenders are catching me pixel by pixel.. (pixel hunting??')
Also, sometimes the gameplay in the middlefield is more frantic (too much pressure??) and the overall speed seems increased..
Hard to say, but maybe the good BALANCE of first demo has been slightly broken.
 
Pere Ubu said:
Are you sure there are fixed man mark settings? Is it not like before, where there's a grey line connecting players, but man-marking only becomes active when you select it and the line turns red?
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It was there in demo 1 and it still is in demo 2. You can't turn it off, only mark another player of the opposition :/
 
Having played a bit more it's most definitely too easy to score from outside the area. I've now scored near-identical goals in three successive games: almost full power from 20 or so yards with the 'keeper not sidestepping or stretching his arms.
 
fideco said:
I'm really struggling against AI on professional level.
It seems to me now it's hard to score and hard to defend than the first demo..
Players like Robben or Riberry seems impossible to catch (dribbling scripting??), instead AI defenders are catching me pixel by pixel.. (pixel hunting??')
Also, sometimes the gameplay in the middlefield is more frantic (too much pressure??) and the overall speed seems increased..
Hard to say, but maybe the good BALANCE of first demo has been slightly broken.
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Try playing the first demo on Top Player in at least a 20 min match, and you will see that it's COMPLETELY broken :)
The balance now is just fine imo, rather have the AI be like demo 1 on offence
 
Ribery & Robben are bastards in this demo!

I think CPU dont have nowhere near enough possession in the 2nd demo on Professional level, I have so much of the ball, normally its 60+% in favour to me...
 
Simcut said:
Ribery & Robben are bastards in this demo!

I think CPU dont have nowhere near enough possession in the 2nd demo on Professional level, I have so much of the ball, normally its 60+% in favour to me...
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Did you have around the same amount of % possession most of the matches on demo 1?

I remember a specific feeling i had in demo 1 and that was just like real life, for ex when you play a weak team vs a top team YOU never wanted to lose the ball , even though you KNEW you were going to lose it and be 'completely' played away.
It's still somewhat there just not as apparent
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
But how much of that is in your own half Si ?
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Not a lot from memory, most of the time when I check the stats the possession is well in favour to me.

Really really hope Konami prove people wrong and sort shit out, and release a decent patch that fixes goalkeepers as well as a few other gripes people are having. I'm not liking the difference in CPU between the 2 demos, in the first demo the CPU were total bastards, fouling me lots, but 2nd demo they just follow me quite a lot and dont press me down (oo err)

Jimmy - next time you get a free kick out on the wing, get a 2nd player to stand next to the ball and hold L1 + O and see if the player kicks the ball the wrong way, I had it happen to me on the first demo, he ran in the direction of the crowd in the main stand and kicked the ball and it headed the opposite way into the box, lol.
 
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I'm not liking how there's no backswing on the R2 controlled shots, sometimes they almost blend into the running animation and it just looks completely stupid, especially when you get loads of power on it from distance.

I'm not usually an animations nut but when it comes to this type of shot, I really want to see the player wrap his foot around the ball!
 
I'm still loving it, but at the same time this definitely still a sports game made by a company that doesn't make sports games. I know it will never be possible to write AI that will give a challenging, fair match to a human as we'd learn exploits, but it still annoys me that Konami build in CPU 'benefits' we'll call them to make it challenging. I'm not sure what the answer is, but experienced PES-ers will know them well:

1. Loose balls fall to the CPU a disproportionate amount of the time. Especially when you make a great sliding tackle, or the goalie palms it into a dangerous area

2. The CPU reactions are ridiculous compared to your AI teammates. And so a decent number of chances/ goals the CPU creates are from you frantically trying to take over from your brain dead teammate to make them do something any pub player would do.

3. There is a scary moment when you just see the CPU turn the 'turbo' button on. You know what I mean. When their 60s rated LB screams up the pitch doing step overs before rabona-ing it to their 5'0" striker who climbs above Luisao to head it into the corner. The moment where you might as well put down the controller.

I know it's a video game, and I shouldn't complain as it is the best football video game ever - but - it doesn't stop me just getting angry at the game more than I enjoy it sometimes.
 
Anyone else tried a full power L1 lob from about 40-50 yards? They actually reach the goal at a a decent pace now - not sure how useful this will be, but it might mean you now have to weight your chips rather than just full power them from the edge of the box.

Suppose it could work when the opposition bring their keeper out to cut out a through ball and it falls to a midfielder.
 
Today I had time to play a little more seriously on demo v2... .. I'm pretty furious Konami.:SHOCK:
The game is to fast, shots are spoiled, too precise and powerful ... A lot of new animation in Preview code.. now i can't see them here :CONFUSE:
Furthermore, little smooth animations but not all, DEMO 2 more close to me than FIFA not to preview PES build. I am very disappointed where to go the game when i compare that the preview build and now the final code look like .. The game is way simple , easy and arcade.
 
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