PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Jimmy G-Force said:
Oh my, Luis Aguair really has out-done himself this time... :WOOT:

The goal topped off a quite remarkable performance from him, the Highlights are incredible, and what a goal by the way. :CONFUSE:

The little look up to see where the goal is, and the timing of it, well, it's phenomenal attention to relevant detail.

YouTube - Luis Aguiar - Genius Personified
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Its the little intricacies, individuality etc that's in these videos that make me love pes so much more :-)
 
Wilkmyster said:
Scored these when trying out once the various PES 2012 demo patches, love the first goal especially, reminds me a bit of the Drogba goal vs Liverpool, although it's not a half volley, just the fact it's a quick turn and instant shot.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIcPR15n7ss

YouTube - [HD] PES 2012 - Gomez & Kagawa

Check out the little pass I've sandwiched in-between the goals too, classy!.
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In the latest video goalkeeping is terrible. I hope it's not that bad in the final build.
 
I just try the FIFA 12 PC demo and i can say - PES is the football king this year ... ! I'm sure .. FIFA 12 is so fast and not even close to real football. Yeah is good football game, its funny, but for real football experience and emotions PES 2012 is the game! GG Konami... finally .. you did it! :BOP:
 
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Ern Dog said:
Jimmy is there much individuality in the top teams? I don't have the time to play at the moment(or the last week :() so I can't test it for myself. I find it a bit worrying that a player like Aguiar, rated at just 70 odd is so damn good! In a team full of players around 70 - 80 i I fear that ever player will be equally capeable and this is where the "no individuality" criticisms are coming from.
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Aguiar is rated 82 (AMF) .. far out the best in that Penarol squad (stat wise)
 
AntrAcsA said:
I just try the FIFA 12 PC demo and i can say - PES is the football king this year ... ! I'm sure .. FIFA 12 is so fast and not even close to real football. Yeah is good football game, its funny, but for real football experience and emotions PES 2012 is the game! GG Konami... finally .. you did it! :BOP:
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the AI is dumb as hell too, you can just sprint through while they're covering men and score multiple times in the same game even
pes feels so much more dynamic, fifa is too static for my taste
 
AntrAcsA said:
I just try the FIFA 12 PC demo and i can say - PES is the football king this year ... ! I'm sure .. FIFA 12 is so fast and not even close to real football. Yeah is good football game, its funny, but for real football experience and emotions PES 2012 is the game! GG Konami... finally .. you did it! :BOP:
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This logic amuses me. Let's assume for the sake of the argument if FIFA 12 was shit. How would that make PES a 'real football[sic] experience'? Being a real footballing experience isn't a comparative quality.
 
goalgerd said:
YouTube - PES 2012 - Top500 players (Review Code) 720p HD

there will be some stat tweaks needed there,some of those are way overated
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Overall ratings mean rarely mean that much but it's hard not to pay attention them when they're in your face like Konami seem to have been asserting over the past few years. Long gone are the graphs or every individual stat with the press of RB.

Any fast players are always rated highly because of the way that the overall ratings function. Case in point Bale and Lennon are both 90 and any fast full back is always rated highly (Filipe 87). In fact so many of those top players seem to be wingers or full backs.

There's also another issue with Italians still being overrated and yet again the old chestnut that is older players never decreasing in ability. Gerrard is not in his prime anymore, he's still a good player on his day when he isn't injured but not a 93. Neither is Pirlo. Drogba 89? Nope. In fact actually a lot of them are just plain stupid. Kolo Toure 89? Better than Kompany apparently. I don't think so. Konami seem really against ever putting down any players who were once highly rated.

Half of those make me question who the hell issues those ratings. Why is Michael Dawson always so high too?
 
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Putuco Malo said:
Ask Gattuso why his rating is so high even at his advanced age.... oh wait, he is 68... ^^
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Still? Honestly i thought that was a huge faux pas last year when i saw he was 68. I guarantee it's because he is slow. The ratings take speed into account far far too much. Then again Gattuso is still good in the game despite being 68 and it brings me back to my first point that overall ratings don't mean that much.
 
Guys, i have a question about defensive strategy. I would like to make my defensive line hold their position more tight, and reduce my defender team mate to chase off-the ball cpu ai run instead of more like man-marking style by default strategy ? . What i am trying make is that so cpu ai run will be more prone to offside so they need to get back to be free from offside position. Sometimes we can have that in 2011 that our def. line sits well in their position if you remember.

Any idea what to do in gameplan ? or is it turning on "offside trap" is the only solution ? Remember not that i don't want my team mate to consistently track an attacker but i'd like to have another option.
 
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Can you edit the managers on the new game? It'd be nice to get the real managers on the sidelines rather than that guy with black hair all the time
 
shorty alien said:
I have no problems with defending now that I know the system better that Konami have changed. It wasn't that I didn't know how to defend, I actually didn't realize how good the defensive AI was, and was trying to override it with my own philosophy. Instead you combine your own philosophy with the new AI-based one, then you see what its all about.

As I mentioned, X is no longer a tackle button, it is used to force pressure, but I hardly use it! You can manually control the pressure simply with the left stick, you focus on the positioning, covering spaces, deciding when to double up and deciding when to hold or rush in, and the AI calculates when to stick its leg out depending on the defence stat, and incorporating other elements such as momentum, inertia, body balance, current speed, ball physics etc.

In the final 3rd when defending, especially on the edge of the box and on the wing near the box I use the R2+X delay function to positioning a defender's body more firmly, anticipating shots, crosses or through balls. Occasionally releasing R2 to make a last ditch tackle but only when you absolutely have to, as the AI can calculate when to block according to the stats I mentioned above.

I still believe the dribble accuracy+speed plus player solidity/weight/floatiness issue can be toned down/balanced and more individuality being shown for players down the levels should be worked on, it is a downside, but not a gamebreaker.

And thats just for defending, with the attacking AI, players making intelligent movements into space an behaving like real players, the game is simply awesome. I can't even remember when I last used a one two, in fact its not often at all, because my players are moving into space themselves, it's almost as if the AI anticipates your attacks and “reads” how you have set up the team or how you are playing; as people have said, you can “trust” your teamates.

The game is just amazing, and this is from an earlier code, without the list of improvements that I'm sure they've already placed into the final code.
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Yep, I'm all over that.

Also, and I'm not sure just how apparent it is with the better teams, but, has anyone else, bar Tom (Ern Dog), noticed that the A.I. movement will change with relevance to the ball-carrier ? I picked up on this alot last night, and the more I became aware of it, the more I looked for it. When Aguiar or Pacheco are in control and holding up play, the runs from their team-mates are far more purposeful and diverse. It's like the A.I. team-mates are aware of these players capabilities and react accordingly. Pretty impressive stuff, and more of the subtle individuality I mentioned before.
 
Northzzz said:
Still? Honestly i thought that was a huge faux pas last year when i saw he was 68. I guarantee it's because he is slow. The ratings take speed into account far far too much. Then again Gattuso is still good in the game despite being 68 and it brings me back to my first point that overall ratings don't mean that much.
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I agree. Overall ratings do not tell everything about a player but still fairly accurate for the position they play. Meaning, for their natural position, their overall rating means they are as good for that position.

But all in all, I have been fooled by the overall ratings before in ML, thinking they were actually that good only to find out that its just based on stats relating to their natural position.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Yep, I'm all over that.

Also, and I'm not sure just how apparent it is with the better teams, but, has anyone else, bar Tom (Ern Dog), noticed that the A.I. movement will change with relevance to the ball-carrier ? I picked up on this alot last night, and the more I became aware of it, the more I looked for it. When Aguiar or Pacheco are in control and holding up play, the runs from their team-mates are far more purposeful and diverse. It's like the A.I. team-mates are aware of these players capabilities and react accordingly. Pretty impressive stuff, and more of the subtle individuality I mentioned before.
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Also noticed if you face a certain direction, players in vision of the ballkeeper start moving more and diverse. For example if you play in MF and look upwards they start moving 'above' you and so forth.
 
Northzzz said:
Still? Honestly i thought that was a huge faux pas last year when i saw he was 68. I guarantee it's because he is slow. The ratings take speed into account far far too much. Then again Gattuso is still good in the game despite being 68 and it brings me back to my first point that overall ratings don't mean that much.
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As long as I remember, Gennaro had 64 rating in PES 2011 xD
 
Northzzz said:
Then again Gattuso is still good in the game despite being 68 and it brings me back to my first point that overall ratings don't mean that much.
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here is why PES, even PES 2011, was such a special game, IMO. the overall is relevant on a few levels, but is contextual to a bigger picture. personality, with players like Gattuso, matters more.

in my current ML, i purchased Gattuso, manly because of the enforcer card. when I need to attack and send my men forward, i sub in Gattuso and play him deep. even though he is just one man, his enforcer card make him something to be feared.

personality and context of each individual is magic
 
Whoops managed to accidentally delete my post while editing:


I have no problems with defending now that I know the system better that Konami have changed. It wasn't that I didn't know how to defend, I actually didn't realize how good the defensive AI was, and was trying to override it with my own philosophy. Instead you combine your own philosophy with the new AI-based one, then you see what its all about.

As I mentioned, X is no longer a tackle button, it is used to force pressure, but I hardly use it! You can manually control the pressure simply with the left stick, you focus on the positioning, covering spaces, deciding when to double up and deciding when to hold or rush in, and the AI calculates when to stick its leg out depending on the defence stat, and incorporating other elements such as momentum, inertia, body balance, current speed, ball physics etc.

In the final 3rd when defending, especially on the edge of the box and on the wing near the box I use the R2+X delay function to positioning a defender's body more firmly, anticipating shots, crosses or through balls. Occasionally releasing R2 to make a last ditch tackle but only when you absolutely have to, as the AI can calculate when to block according to the stats I mentioned above.

I still believe the dribble accuracy+speed plus player solidity/weight/floatiness issue can be toned down/balanced and more individuality being shown for players down the levels should be worked on, it is a downside, but not a gamebreaker.

And thats just for defending, with the attacking AI, players making intelligent movements into space an behaving like real players, the game is simply awesome. I can't even remember when I last used a one two, in fact its not often at all, because my players are moving into space themselves, it's almost as if the AI anticipates your attacks and “reads” how you have set up the team or how you are playing; as people have said, you can “trust” your teamates.

The game is just amazing, and this is from an earlier code, without the list of improvements that I'm sure they've already placed into the final code.
 
I think in this game if a player has some stat in the the high 80's or 90's he's already somewhat automatically 'overrated' in his overall rating. This goes for almost any stat not just speed stats and of course also position dependent
 
Thespeedster84 said:
Guys, i have a question about defensive strategy. I would like to make my defensive line hold their position more tight, and reduce my defender team mate to chase off-the ball cpu ai run instead of more like man-marking style by default strategy ? . What i am trying make is that so cpu ai run will be more prone to offside so they need to get back to be free from offside position. Sometimes we can have that in 2011 that our def. line sits well in their position if you remember.

Any idea what to do in gameplan ? or is it turning on "offside trap" is the only solution ? Remember not that i don't want my team mate to consistently track an attacker but i'd like to have another option.
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I suppose you could play a high line and then activate the offside trap when necessary, but this is risky as I'm sure you can imagine. I haven't actually used the offside trap strategy since the PS2 versions, so can't really help you there, sorry.
 
Tomorrow is PES Wednesday !! Whoop, whoop !! :WOOT:

I love the way it falls on my day off work :SMUG:

.... I just hope it lands earlier in the day this time, I'm sure the PES 11 Demo appeared at about 11am, although maybe that was the WE Demo ? :CONFUSE:
 
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gergerger said:
Well, the truth is that you must know how to defend in real life to defend properly in PES 2012.

*FIRST OF ALL, USING 'SEMI' FOR PLAYER SWTICHING IS A MUST*

I'll give you the first example:

1) One-Twos:

You are controlling Zambrotta. Hulk plays a 1-2 down your wing and Nesta is a bit too far:

..Nesta................
...........................
..........Falcao.......
..................\........
...Zambrotta..Hulk.....

There are two mistakes you can make here:

a) Use Zambrotta to mark Falcao.
In real life, Zambrotta's mission is to mark Hulk. If Falcao is unnmarked (nesta is too far), that is not his problem. Once Hulk has passed the ball and started running, Zambrotta has to chase Hulk. Otherwise he won't mark neither Hulk or Falcao, who is really Nesta's problem.

b) Switch to Nesta.
While Falcao has space, he still has Nesta ahead. If you switch to Nesta and engage him, AI Zambrotta will leave a gap for Hulk.

So, What you have do is to keep controlling Zambrotta, forget about the ball and chase Hulk. Use the 2nd player pressure button to close the gap between Nesta and Falcao.

If this helped anyone, I'll post other defensive scenarios.
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This is EXACTLY why I prefer 2v2 in PES2011, because Hulk needs to be marked and if I am Zmbro, I forget about the ball and mark Hulk's run, if I am Nesta I close Falcao with the confidence that my partner, by selecting Zambro, will mark Hulk's run thus rendering him less useful.

Unfortunately not a lot of 2v2 players grasp this football fundamental.
 
shorty alien said:
I suppose you could play a high line and then activate the offside trap when necessary, but this is risky as I'm sure you can imagine. I haven't actually used the offside trap strategy since the PS2 versions, so can't really help you there, sorry.
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Offside strategy is working well, i tried. it is nice to see the movement of defender to trap opponent. But yeah i should use it one or two occasions, so tricky and risky.. feels great tho. Thx anyway.

I suppose there must be some trade offs here with PES 2011 def. AI vs PES 2012's . So far the limitation i find in this PES 2012 def. AI is more about option to defensive style.

Imagine the cpu is dribbling midfield with me containing him. His winger is on his track forward far in sideline. Let's say from the right wing & 2 attackers are near my CB. I feel that my LB seems to leave his position to track the winger. Sure, it seems not something that will leave too many holes since most players are dynamically will try to fill that "empty" position.

But yeah, i guess need more patient to work around the gameplan.
 
theCRO said:
This is EXACTLY why I prefer 2v2 in PES2011, because Hulk needs to be marked and if I am Zmbro, I forget about the ball and mark Hulk's run, if I am Nesta I close Falcao with the confidence that my partner, by selecting Zambro, will mark Hulk's run thus rendering him less useful.

Unfortunately not a lot of 2v2 players grasp this football fundamental.
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I do :P I'm an expert in 2v2 if I say so myself:PIG:
 
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