PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Wilkmyster said:
With all this talk of ping-pong passing, I had to do a little test. Kept the default setting (Passing Assistance +3)(Difficulty: Professional) and chose Milan to re-create the MLO super team I'll inevitably face. This is me attempting to play like an idiot, this isn't my usual PES style and neither was it when I played Fifa, but online people are obviously more competitive and will use the most exploitative method possible.

YouTube - PES 2012 - Ping Pong?

I really hope it is toned down, off be default or at the very least there is the possibility of filtering people who use the assistance. Hell, I actually hope they remove it... The prospect of what Online will be is really worrying me this year.
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Funny thing is pes has always been heavily assisted,and pes2011 was the first pes game to offer more freedom by default with the passing.

Im a more manual player that when i do play fifa with friends uses less assistance,however,my friends dont and i still win.

Its all about giving the end user the tools and the game to combat handicaps and have a greater advantage using a less asssisted game,because the mechanics of the game allow the person opting for less assistance a greater advantage,which i feel is the case in pes2012 and even fifa to a degree.Not only this but you only get half the enjoyment when the assistance is on,so your only ultimetly cheating yourself.

That said,you cant alienate less skilled gamers or de-value the merit of having a system that allows newbies or some ps2 veterans the assistance they need.Its beats having one system that doesnt suit all.

With fifa you have a ai system that compensates for weaker players and doesnt adapt or allow a more intelligent football mind to break his opponent down and punish his over reliance on assistance and the weaknesses in his game.

With pes2012 the smarter you are and the more creative you are the greater are the rewards.Pes2012 rewards you for playing clever football,fifa does not.
 
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gerd said:
Looking forward to that Video Jimmy.
That is the beauty of PES: had you ever heard about this player? One discovers unknown litle gems in the game...my all time favourite PES player is Andres D'Alessandro...i had him in a Wolfsburg ML and last year he was the star of the demo. Before all that i bought him in a ML from River Plate...he was totally unknown to and in a way still is, because I actually never saw the guy play IRL...
But what a shame you can't "use" those Coppa Libertadores players in the ML...that is also typically Konami: capable of the best and the worst.
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Cheers Gerd. And no, I'd never heard of this kid, but I have Wikipedia'ed him since. :)

Well apparently Luis Aguiar has now signed for Sporting, so hopefully he will now be available in PES 12 after the transfer update. He will be my first buy, I love this kid. :)
 
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If anything konami have taken fifas aborted effort which was pro-passing in fifa11,turned it on its head and generated it into something that actually works.For example the idea with pro passing was that less touches and to much one-touch passing would effect the accuracy and energy in the ball,when in reality constant movement of the ball generates more energy and inertai,with the ball in a stationery position being harder to generate power in and that the momentum of the player,body and foot position are key factors in the accuracy of touch and how much energy is generated in the ball.This is why shooting and passing is so skill and timing based and that the power bar level isnt always a reflection of the outcome,because shooting and passing is also very dependant on how quickly the player is moving,his body and foot position and the energy in the ball,so the results of a under powered or over powered bar can be very different based on these factors.

Konami have nailed this and those with a keen eye are already probably exploiting this in the demo and there play.Its not a simple ping-pong system.Theres real physics and science at play.
 
Ern Dog said:
That is not what I would call ping pong passing. What I used to come up against in FIFA10 online was laser guided, 100% accurate 1 touch passing, 100% of the time, thats ping pong.
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Yep, that vid doesn't have any ping-pong passing. But that doesn't mean it isn't possible. Like I said, simple tapping the passing button allows ping-pong passing (though against the AI it usually doesn't work and it's not exploitable, if you string more than a couple of passes together the CPU will intercept it easily).
 
They're all laser guided passes aren't they? and there's plenty of 1 touch pass combos too. But this is a video I made from 1 match, I'm sure you can find many more examples of it. Neither am I saying it's as bad as it is or has been in Fifa.

Anyway it's up to you to make your own conclusions, there's a reason I added a question mark at the end of Ping Pong. My opinion is things are a bit too accurate with passing assistance (yes, I know that's the point), I'm simply worried about how it'll effect online.

Might be totally different in the 2nd demo actually, so we'll see.
 
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_anderson said:
Yep, that vid doesn't have any ping-pong passing. But that doesn't mean it isn't possible. Like I said, simple tapping the passing button allows ping-pong passing (though against the AI it usually doesn't work and it's not exploitable, if you string more than a couple of passes together the CPU will intercept it easily).
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Yep, PES has always been like this, it's coded that way. It's pretty much the same for 2 player as well. The code wont let you get away with that type of button mashing. Never has. 3/4 Bar though, at present, is the most assisted it's ever been.
 
Re: Love the new demo, a few thoughts...

priskinsprick said:
I know it's a demo, but all I hope for in the full game is:

- Looser running (ie holding r2 with r1 loosens you from the 'path' of the run and you can set your approach before you latch on to the ball/shoot
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^^^ You mean Super Cancel, which has been in the game for years, maybe even since inception!
 
Haha I really liked how PES picked up on D'Alessandro last year. I had heard of him, he was one of those players from Argentina who was going to be the next big thing, got into the national team then kind of went into reverse and never fulfilled his potential. Nevertheless, PES picked up on this and recognised his ability and that you could bring this out of him. I love stuff like that.

Back to PES2012, I couldn't get a video but I had an amazing moment scoring a goal with Nani. He broke clear of the full back on the halfway line with a tiny sidestep, then unlike in 2011, he was away down the wing. I got the the byline, used L2 and the right stick to do that sideways dribble move, and he slid the ball between two onrushing defenders, then blasted a shot from an angle high into the roof of the net. Looked amazing, and I think the game will only allow that kind of move with the likes of Nani, which is great.
 
The "top player" level is very challenging to play against but I would have loved it if the CPU didn't resort to some cheating at times.I get this "mind reader" feeling from the CPU
 
One thing about the CPU I'm not happy with, now that I think about it, is how effective lofted through balls are. As yet I'm not sure if this is an AI exploit of sorts, like the ground through pass in 2011, or just me not defending properly. Probably the latter.
 
Yeah, D'Alessandro is awesome, I remember who he is though, I remember him playing for Real Zaragoza years ago with a ridiculous haircut, he had a shaved head with this strand of long hair with some white thing at the end of it lol
 
kouroux said:
The "top player" level is very challenging to play against but I would have loved it if the CPU didn't resort to some cheating at times.I get this "mind reader" feeling from the CPU
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I have had the same feeling. It feels like Fifa 10 and 11, where you never had the feeling that you totally controlling the match. The AI always could score a goal when de computer decided to do so.
 
Re: Love the new demo, a few thoughts...

priskinsprick said:
I love the emphasis on close control and passing, shielding the ball and retaining it, and latching on to the balls/player selection is so much better now.

I know it's a demo, but all I hope for in the full game is:

- Looser running (ie holding r2 with r1 loosens you from the 'path' of the run and you can set your approach before you latch on to the ball/shoot
- Better shooting (ie less floaty shots/tame dribblers - all footballers can crack it)
- Better goalkeepers, to stop the better shots. Hopefully the goalkeepers will get something on to the low shots more often, and struggle a bit more with the higher balls/shots.
- The refs are kept exactly as strict - I remember last year they were good in the demo and pathetic in the game!

But overall really happy and surprised at the improvements seen so far!
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The shooting is excellent in my opinion, you just need to add more power to the power-bar. It's alot different from last year in this regard.
 
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Wilkmyster said:
They're all laser guided passes aren't they? and there's plenty of 1 touch pass combos too. But this is a video I made from 1 match, I'm sure you can find many more examples of it. Neither am I saying it's as bad as it is or has been in Fifa.

Anyway it's up to you to make your own conclusions, there's a reason I added a question mark at the end of Ping Pong. My opinion is things are a bit too accurate with passing assistance (yes, I know that's the point), I'm simply worried about how it'll effect online.

Might be totally different in the 2nd demo actually, so we'll see.
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in that video, there is only a handful of first time passes, as alot of players actually take touches then pass and if u take that away, thats just wrong, you can do first time passes in real life so i don't see the problem
 
I'm pleased to see that you can expect the Refs to brandish a red card on keepers.
Played the WE2012 demo last night and Abbiati took out Cavani in a 1 on 1 challenge just outside the ares.Straight red and free kick to Napoli.Excellent!
 
Adam:
I do have news about patching. I've heard Konami will be open to gameplay patches, if needed, soon after launch. If people feel the need that passing needs changing, or bars needing changing, then they'll do it if there's a strong voice.

All I will say is please play the final game before asking for such things. The passing is very different from the demo to final code.
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Simcut said:
Yeah, D'Alessandro is awesome, I remember who he is though, I remember him playing for Real Zaragoza years ago with a ridiculous haircut, he had a shaved head with this strand of long hair with some white thing at the end of it lol
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He had a brief but impressive spell at Portsmouth on loan before that. Excellent player. Very much the typical Argentine creative midfielder.
 
Wilkmyster said:
They're all laser guided passes aren't they? and there's plenty of 1 touch pass combos too. But this is a video I made from 1 match, I'm sure you can find many more examples of it. Neither am I saying it's as bad as it is or has been in Fifa.
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Yes the passing is ridiculously accurate but its AC Milan and I would bet that nearly every player on that team, or atleast the more forward ones have passing stats well in the 80s. Not that thats any excuse for the precision but its a factor.
When I play with Penarol I would estimate that around 50% of my moves break down due to poor passes. You really do need to pick out the good passers for the more elaborate stuff and it forces you to play more football. Atleast we wont have the lesser teams knocking it around like Barcalona for 90 mins.
 
I have a feeling passing will be better in the 2nd demo anyway, so it's all fairly irrelevant! :)
 
Expander said:
If anything konami have taken fifas aborted effort which was pro-passing in fifa11,turned it on its head and generated it into something that actually works.For example the idea with pro passing was that less touches and to much one-touch passing would effect the accuracy and energy in the ball,when in reality constant movement of the ball generates more energy and inertai,with the ball in a stationery position being harder to generate power in and that the momentum of the player,body and foot position are key factors in the accuracy of touch and how much energy is generated in the ball.This is why shooting and passing is so skill and timing based and that the power bar level isnt always a reflection of the outcome,because shooting and passing is also very dependant on how quickly the player is moving,his body and foot position and the energy in the ball,so the results of a under powered or over powered bar can be very different based on these factors.

Konami have nailed this and those with a keen eye are already probably exploiting this in the demo and there play.Its not a simple ping-pong system.Theres real physics and science at play.
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Very well said mate.
 
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