PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Jimmy G-Force said:
As far as I was aware, Fifa has Assisted players playing against Manual players. So how does this differ ?
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Because Fifa has specific search parameters which mean you can find a game to suit your style as well as having quick match, which is what you described. I.e if you want to find somebody playing with semi controls you can. It'll be interesting to see what Konami do about this because they've added a whole bunch of options to adjust how the game plays for the user. I don't play online but i'd feel sorry for the people who did if there isn't an even playing field.

I'm sure it's not too hard for Konami to implement a system where you can see the host's settings before the match and choose to join his game or not based on his controls. I'd obviously prefer to use the same controls and have better search parameters (i.e game speed, pass assistance level, cursors settings etc). Of course it'd be good if they set it to 'any' and then people who don't care enough to change things can go into any game.
 
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Northzzz said:
Because Fifa has specific search parameters which mean you can find a game to suit your style as well as having quick match, which is what you described. I.e if you want to find somebody playing with semi controls you can. It'll be interesting to see what Konami do about this because they've added a whole bunch of options to adjust how the game plays for the user. I don't play online but i'd feel sorry for the people who did if there isn't an even playing field.

I'm sure it's not too hard for Konami to implement a system where you can see the host's settings before the match and choose to join his game or not based on his controls. I'd obviously prefer to use the same controls and have better search parameters (i.e choice of cursor settings, pass assistance level etc). Of course it'd be good if they set it to 'any' and then people who don't care enough to change things can go into any game.
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I hope they do offer us this option.
 
You can do things similar to that but the ball won't stay as close to the ground. I saw a pass like that two days ago when i was playing as Benfica.
 
I've played passes similar to that but they tend to be along the ground or actual crosses.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
It hasnt gone anywhere, it's just evolved in the name of progression. Does this new Demo play the most realistic football to date ? In my opinion, yes. By a long, long way.
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Jimmy G-Force said:
It hasnt gone anywhere, it's just less now and hard to find.
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fixed
:YAWN:

cant seem to find big differences, normally i feel difference even between xavi-iniesta e.g. easily, but in the demo?
haha, sry there is almost no difference if u compare similar players while controlling them

the inner core simulation aspect is much less in the demo compared to 010 and 011(bit less than 010)
that aspect is feeling the players while controlling them, and the difference between them
the other deep simulation aspect is the deepness of the controls which is still there off course..
 
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Hi again from the rocking chair.
Appreciate the warm support for my recent personal thoughts on the demo and loving the videos of the goals and play from you guys.
Just another personal view regarding the style of play on the demo.
I've played loads on Top Player,0 bars assistance Milan v Napoli.Mainly because Napoli seem to be the team giving the most problems,especially Cavani.I found that to stop him scoring or bringing others into play required some drastic measures as they were just killing me every game.
What to do?Mmmm.
I played a game and set Van Bommell to man mark Cavani.Hellfire did he get a kicking or what?Now I'm not saying Van Bommell actually stopped Napoli but it did break their rhythem.One might call a spoiling tactic.
The Ai started to play differently and was laying far more balls back to supporting players rather than their normal direct approach.
Cue the decisive managerial play.I'd set up one of the strategys as a counter attack and it absolutely created havoc with the Napoli teamwork.
It literally felt like Gattuso et al had rolled up their sleeves and said bollocks to this, we're going for it.
Amazing stuff.To be fair I still only came out of the game with a 2-2 draw but it felt like I'd got one up on the computor at last.
I've replayed these games using the same settings on Professional and whilst I do have more success and even win the odd games it just feels so much more intense and a greater achievement playing on top player.
Problem is,of course,playing top player for a season is gonna mean struggling in the lower reaches of whatever division I choose.
Right I've bored you enough.
Regards to all out there.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
That has never been confirmed. Have you just pulled that out of your arse ?

I've played MLO matches where the Host had the Game-Speed settings at +2.

The whole million dollar question, and my biggest concern is how this Pass Assistance will be managed/segregated Online. As far as I was aware, Fifa has Assisted players playing against Manual players. So how does this differ ?
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It doesn't have to be confirmed. I already know this is going to be the case because it has been like that the past few years. Last I heard FIFA had manual leaderboards, not sure if it is true or not. BUT, when you play ranked matches in FIFA you can at least choose to only play Manual/Semi/Assisted players, even though the default settings are on assisted.
 
uurgh I hope pass assistance is not default on 4 bars that would suck major donkey balls having said that I haven't tried full assistnace yet as I love 0 assistance and no this does not affect Xavi from passing like Xavi and yes there is a marked difference between the two, Xavi does not have Iniestas carrying ability at pace this is what I discovered with the patched demo.

Good god Barcelona are absolutely marvellous to use and be used by lol but I will not be playing too much of that anymore as I want the ooh aah effect of the full release still.

danyjr said:
It doesn't have to be confirmed. I already know this is going to be the case because it has been like that the past few years.
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Okay tell you what Nostrudamus when the full game is out and your thoughts are vindicated pitch up here and give us a good old nenenene I told you so LOLZ FTW OMG I rock !!

Until then I am going with the saying that assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. Also we are aware FIFA has settings for these things so we wait with baited breath to se how Konami handles it. I do not get your comment on Konami always having done this as its the first time that we have pass assistance settings.
 
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danyjr said:
It doesn't have to be confirmed. I already know this is going to be the case because it has been like that the past few years. Last I heard FIFA had manual leaderboards, not sure if it is true or not. BUT, when you play ranked matches in FIFA you can at least choose to only play Manual/Semi/Assisted players, even though the default settings are on assisted.
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I can understand skepticism but your reasoning is flawed.
 
ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue said:
fixed
:YAWN:

cant seem to find big differences, normally i feel difference even between xavi-iniesta e.g. easily, but in the demo?
haha, sry there is almost no difference if u compare similar players while controlling them

the inner core simulation aspect is much less in the demo compared to 010 and 011(bit less than 010)
that aspect is feeling the players while controlling them, and the difference between them
the other deep simulation aspect is the deepness of the controls which is still there off course..
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Glad I'm not the only one concerned by this. I know 'top' players are able to wriggle through spaces more easily than others, but there's not enough difference in style between them.

I've pointed this out earlier but it's worth saying again. In PES 2011 you had very agile players with poor dribbling that could beat players, and quite immobile players with high dribbling that could beat players but in different ways. You had poor passers that could pick out a the odd fantastic ball, and good passers that were more accurate but less spectacular.

If anything I thought these differences should be expanded upon even further in PES 2012, but so far it's a step backwards and I just can't 'feel' the differences between players. Some are marginally better at things than others, but you don't feel any sort of uniqueness or weakness in them..

It's frustrating since as a team or unit PES 2012 plays very much a more realistic game. But individuality is the major charm of the PES series and it's definitely lacking. Which is why the FIFA comparison is a just one, even if they're still very much different games.
 
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zeemeister said:
Until then I am going with the saying that assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. Also we are aware FIFA has settings for these things so we wait with baited breath to se how Konami handles it. I do not get your comment on Konami always having done this as its the first time that we have pass assistance settings.
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Maybe because PES 2011 online was a total ping-pong+flair passfest already. Even when playing teams like Wolves.

Default settings = online settings.

That has been true for about all videogames. Whether you want to accept it now or have a red face on the release date is up to you. For me, I want people to raise their voices about this so Konami acts before it is too late. It is as simple as moving pass assistance from 3/4 to 2/4 as the default setting, but as we have seen with many developers, they seem reluctant to dramatically change things because of public's reaction.
 
dannyfc2 said:
Glad I'm not the only one concerned by this. I know 'top' players are able to wriggle through spaces more easily than others, but there's not enough difference in style between them.

I've pointed this out earlier but it's worth saying again. In PES 2011 you had very agile players with poor dribbling that could beat players, and quite immobile players with high dribbling that could beat players but in different ways. You had poor passers that could pick out a the odd fantastic ball, and good passers that were more accurate but less spectacular.

If anything I thought these differences should be expanded upon even further in PES 2012, but so far it's a step backwards and I just can't 'feel' the differences between players. Some are marginally better at things than others, but you don't feel any sort of uniqueness or weakness in them..

It's frustrating since as a team or unit PES 2012 plays very much a more realistic game. But individuality is the major charm of the PES series and it's definitely lacking. Which is why the FIFA comparison is a just one, even if they're still very much different games.
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Added to this the fact that they are STILL scripting player vs cpu momentum, passing accuracy, stamina etc etc. and what you have is a demo that doesn't solve my main gripe with the PES series. Why on earth are player team mates so incredibly stupid on defense? The CPU seems to have no problem tracking runs and positioning themselves perfectly goalside, what gives? I'm tired of having to fight with the team mate AI.

A prime example of this difference is Secondary Press. CPU secondary press uses the second defender to 'push' or funnel the player into the first defender. When the player uses secondary press the second defender mindlessly rushes in and tackles leading to a lot of unintentional fouls. Why can't the player be placed on equal footing with the CPU? This is just another symptom of artificial difficulty, which forces the player to make decisions that often do not 'vibe' with how football is really played.

Konami has achieved a lot this year BUT they are still falling short in improving the balance between attack and defense, especially when playing against the CPU.
 
zeemeister said:
What am I missing here? I am finding that the same rules limiting me are limmiting the AI in attack and defence. I honestly do not see this scripting.
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Well I envy you because it's clear as day to me. The secondary press example is as clear as I can be.

I also posted this yesterday (it went unnoticed):

sincover said:
Just played about 10 games in a row . I could have sworn I was back to playing PES 11!:PUKE:

First off, when holding R2 to defend manually, your player does not intercept balls that are just inches away. Holding R2+A or just holding A fixes that problem, but for people like me who want total control it's quite disappointing.

Loose ball situations need a lot of work; 99.9% of the time even if you get there first, the AI will just clip through you to gain possession.

Also, when defending against the AI, the delay between switching players and gaining control is still too long, resulting in a short pause before they are able to move again.

With all of the improvements made to the AI (increasing difficulty), I had hoped that the CPU would be governed by the same rules as the player (passing accuracy, momentum, reaction time). Unfortunately, I don't think this is the case.

That said, I still enjoy the referees, tackling collision detection and ball physics. I also enjoy the challenge of breaking down a team tactically and figuring out the best way to break through their defense. Scoring in this game feels like an accomplishment and really sucks you in. A little more balance is needed before I fall completely in love.
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i'm sure default settings of the game will be used online, that's why i hope the assistance in default passing will be at pes 2011 levels in final game otherwise it's a step back
we can just hope, the game is gold now
 
Passing in pes 2011 is too assisted as well, and it's so on rails, it's too "straight to feet" in every situation wiht poor variety of speed/power.

Standard online matchs are made for kids, not for real football minded players. It's a fact. It's for bigger audiance.
 
Can't stop playing the demo thanks to the PC modding community with so many teams to play with. It's the same feeling I get with WE9LE. Every game is fun and unpredictable. I rike it!
 
sincover said:
Well I envy you because it's clear as day to me. The secondary press example is as clear as I can be.

I also posted this yesterday (it went unnoticed):
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sincover said:
Just played about 10 games in a row . I could have sworn I was back to playing PES 11!:PUKE:
.
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Sorry after reading the above I read no further as I dismissed it as garbage :P
In no way shape or form does PES2012 resemble PES2011 in those areas you mentioned IMO and I have played / am playing ALOT of PES2011 but its your opinion so its as good as mine
 
zeemeister said:
Sorry after reading the above I read no further as I dismissed it as garbage :P
In no way shape or form does PES2012 resemble PES2011 in those areas you mentioned IMO and I have played / am playing ALOT of PES2011 but its your opinion so its as good as mine
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You're entitled to your opinion but dismissing what I think is a well thought out post because you disagree with my initial (admittedly facetious) statement is borderline immature. If you're not having the same issues then good for you, PES 2012 should be your last footie game. It's not like I'm the only one with these issues.
 
I'm going to bum the full game so hard. It's the first one in which I think I'll be able to replicate Ginola's near-wonder goal vs Leeds a decade ago, thanks to the dribbling and attacking being so god damn horny.

#importantthingsfirst
 
dannyfc2 said:
That makes absolutely no sense as an argument. Ping-pong passing doesn't exist....but only if you play a patient build-up? That's like saying too accurate dribbling with weaker players isn't a problem if you just don't dribble with them....
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The point is if you are finding ping pong passing within the game, then you are obviously not playing the game the way its meant to be played.

Also if you choose to try and play that way you are never ever going to fully appreciate Pes. I mean who would want to try an play it in an unnatural way anyway. I have the ability to put my head in a gas oven but i choose not to.
 
Just downloaded the Winning Eleven 2012 demo and had one game on it. I really think this is a little bit closer to what the 2nd demo/final code will be like. The play is definitely a lot more balanced, in terms of the cpu AI not being as aggressive and the player AI being more responsive. The game is certainly more balanced, which i know some may say easier, but i would say realistic. Scored two absolute screamers with Pato (AC v Porto) due to the ball being slightly weightier than in the european demo.
Gonna play some more now that i have another option :)).
With another, possibly two more demos to come and then the game we live in exciting times.:)):BYE:.
 
I've definitely not noticed any ping-pong passing. Then again I've played nearly every game on zero pass assistance. Even on higher assistance I found that passing required thought and concentration otherwise passes were going astray.

It's certainly easier to knock the ball about casually with the better passers, but ping-pong it is not.
 
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