PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[Jimmy G-Force]

Any idea on demo 2 date?

You Demo Whore !!


I'm loving the philosophy behind this years game by the way, it reeks of pure football. I must admit I'm still pretty shit at the game, but alot of that is down to getting stuck with habits that worked on PES 2011. The most success I have had with the Demo, has been when I've looked to build-up the play as much as I can. Not always looking for the forward pass, but playing my percentages until gaps arise, thanks to the great movement of the A.I. The game promotes a real sense of football, with patience and composure paramount to your success. I really like that.

Now, back to Zee's question......... Where the fuck is Demo 2 ?

 

[proxi]

Three interesting things I picked up from ©Bhattitweets about extra depth in ML. Firstly, your players can submit transfer requests. He had Neymar (I think), request a move after just one season with Milan. If I remember correctly, Madrid had bid £50m. Hopefully things are balanced well here with player activity.

Secondly, after not winning the league, he was given 2 games of the new season in which to save his job. He had to win them both. Due to the fact that he managed to do it, I haven't a clue what would happen if he didn't - Game Over screen? Again, hopefully this is balanced out well, with quick pressure such as what he got mainly in place at only the biggest, most prestigious teams.

Finally, there seems to be a fairly big selection of cut-scenes. I remember him commentating on seeing a fresh "new signing unveiled" scene play when he "thought he'd seen them all" - as in the selection just for the signings. Which is good to hear, as having only one scene per activity would be a waste. Just for fun, it would be funny to see some Yakuza-style entrances by big players, Michael Owen arriving at West Brom on a dragon-styled motorbike etc...

Any idea on demo 2 date?

Jon Murphy said mid-September, before the game released (27th Sep in Americas). I would hazard a guess at the 13th or 14th of Sep. Can see them making the most of that plan to get people playing it as early as possible.

 

[Lami]

PES2010 was the game that focused on the graphics, so I think Konami have already done their overhaul on this gen. I think we'll have to wait for the next gen of consoles for any kind of step-up.

This is true. The graphical step-up on this gen's consoles was done in PES 2010. But my problem is that I expected a lot more Jamez. I expected things that most probably won't be done now and will only be seen in next-gens. I just had higher hopes for the PS3 and 360 in general tbh. I don't know what I was thinking. It's probably my fault though. I won't do the same mistake I've done in the past when I expected too much jumping from PES 6 to 2008 though.

 

[Jamezinho]

This is true. The graphical step-up on this gen's consoles was done in PES 2010. But my problem is that I expected a lot more Jamez. I expected things that most probably won't be done now and will only be seen in next-gens. I just had higher hopes for the PS3 and 360 in general tbh. I don't know what I was thinking. It's probably my fault though. I won't do the same mistake I've done in the past when I expected too much jumping from PES 6 to 2008 though.

So did I.

Unfortunately we've hit the ceiling of what the 360 & PS3 are capable of. These are consoles developed in the middle of the last decade so after six years they can't be pushed any further.

Trouble is, Sony talked of a 10 year life for the PS3 but didn't give the console enough memory for the developers to take advantage of what it should be capable of. So now after five years it's hit the stops and regularly gets out-stripped graphically by the 360.

Gran Turismo 5 is a great example of a developer trying to push the boundaries in 1080p, but the console running out of steam, resulting in slowdown, screen-tear, blocky shadows and smoke, and other graphical artefacts.

Konami probably made the decision not to take the graphics beyond a point where the frame rate suffers or corners will need to be cut elsewhere. Remember PES5 where Konami removed the crowd from the stands in some camera angles to preserve frame rate?

 

[StarEye]

I don't understand, I thought PES was considered the better looking game since PES2010? FIFA always looks like plastic to me.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

I think graphically they weren't comparing it to FIFA but sports games in general and they do have a point. it's the wide camera which loses a lot of quality which is the problem.

Podcast was decent if only slightly disappointed they didn't really tell us anything other than saying the "gameplay is amazing" without specifics about how it's better than Demo 1. They did mention the embargo hadn't lifted but then it seemed a bit pointless to do a podcast this week.

Just out of curiosity Rod and Rom what are your thought's on Preview Code V Demo 1. WENB feel the demo was worse what are your thoughts on the differences or even if you thought their were any.

 

[Lons]

I really hope demo 2 will be much better than demo 1. When i download PES 2011 demo for me it was fresh and stunning. When i download PES 2012 demo i want see something more in some aspects because PES 2011 is really good basic.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I understand the game reaching a graphical ceiling on the current platforms, but there's no excuse if the game looks like the demo. Everything is pretty much in place, the player models look better, animations better, pitch is lovely, nice animated people by the sides of the pitch, everything would in theory look better were it not for the fact that it all looks ridiculously 'fuzzy' due to the low resolution. It makes the game look far worse, graphically, than PES2011.

And that replay immediately after scoring. Seriously? The camera in PES2011 was great, showing large, detailed players in a mixture of TV esque camera angles. This year's camera is some strange panned out, low down view where you have to look closely to see what's going on.

I think Konami have struggled to get to grips with the next gen consoles - remember PES2008 and the debacle with the crazily awful framerate that needed a patch (and still didn't fix it)? I think certain improvements may have been traded off with having worse graphics this year.

It's hard, trying to not sound like a total graphics whore when gameplay is 99% of a game, but I really do need decent graphics to enjoy the great gameplay these days. These texures are so low resolution that it doesn't even look like it's in HD, and that's pretty rubbish. Everyone keeps saying that this'll be fixed for maybe demo 2, and I really hope so, because if this game is released with keepers improved and textures now looking like they're actually running in HD, then I'll be happy with this game.

 

[Jamezinho]

As has been said before, I would expect the game to look better in retail code. It sounds as if Demo 1 is much older code than Gamescom, and we all know that graphical polish is applied in the late stages of game development.

I will be very surprised if this is not the case.

 

[Jamezinho]

I think graphically they weren't comparing it to FIFA but sports games in general and they do have a point. it's the wide camera which loses a lot of quality which is the problem.

I don't think sports games can be generalised though. The NBA 2K series has always looked amazing - the best looking sports game I've played - but then basketball is 10 players on a small court, and 2K only have to model a league of 30 teams. This affords them the luxury of being able to go to town on the graphics. The same could be said of a tennis, hockey or golf game, where less players are involved therefore fewer AI routines to calculate.

A football game will be more CPU intensive, with 22 AI routines and players to model. Hence I think it's safe to say football games have hit their peak over the last couple of years.

The nearest comparison to PES & FIFA in terms of complexity is Madden which also has to calculate the AI of 22 players. And in my opinion Madden hit the graphical ceiling recently too. These consoles just don't have the power to deliver outstanding graphics and outstanding AI at the same time. A compromise has to be met. That's probably why the graphics in PES 2011/12 are not as good as 2010. The AI has improved hugely since then.

 

[Lons]

Seriously i don't know unfinished demo 1 was good move from KONAMI. For years PES has problems with many aspects. People want in this moment good game in all aspect. KONAMI right now can't make any mistakes because they did it for 3 years. They should make 1 proper demo like FIFA without stupid bugs like keepers etc. One demo but with final code. Haters only wait to attack PRO EVO. It's my opinion.

 

[lancers]

I really hope demo 2 will be much better than demo 1. When i download PES 2011 demo for me it was fresh and stunning. When i download PES 2012 demo i want see something more in some aspects because PES 2011 is really good basic.

I played the 11 demo last nite and my feelings are 180 degrees from yours. 2012 has the potential to be most excellent. Please do something with the keepers. Too many attempts from long range find the net.

 

[lancers]

I don't think sports games can be generalised though. The NBA 2K series has always looked amazing - the best looking sports game I've played - but then basketball is 10 players on a small court, and 2K only have to model a league of 30 teams. This affords them the luxury of being able to go to town on the graphics. The same could be said of a tennis, hockey or golf game, where less players are involved therefore fewer AI routines to calculate.

A football game will be more CPU intensive, with 22 AI routines and players to model. Hence I think it's safe to say football games have hit their peak over the last couple of years.

The nearest comparison to PES & FIFA in terms of complexity is Madden which also has to calculate the AI of 22 players. And in my opinion Madden hit the graphical ceiling recently too. These consoles just don't have the power to deliver outstanding graphics and outstanding AI at the same time. A compromise has to be met. That's probably why the graphics in PES 2011/12 are not as good as 2010. The AI has improved hugely since then.

TBH the NHL series hasn't gotten graphically better in a few years as well and there is very little going on in a hockey game. I think PES is doing fine when you consider all that is going on in a game of footie.

 

[Lons]

I played the 11 demo last nite and my feelings are 180 degrees from yours. 2012 has the potential to be most excellent. Please do something with the keepers. Too many attempts from long range find the net.

Of course PES 2012 has the potential but i don't want only potential i want proper game in all aspects. The keepers are not only one problem in PES 2012. Turning animations feel clumsy. Some running animations feel clumsy too. Keepers are very bad. Passing is to fast and script. Keepers animations should be redone from scratch. Graphics on PS3 is not stunning.( Lighting is good). Do you want more?

 

[Jamezinho]

Seriously i don't know unfinished demo 1 was good move from KONAMI. For years PES has problems with many aspects. People want in this moment good game in all aspect. KONAMI right now can't make any mistakes because they did it for 3 years. They should make 1 proper demo like FIFA without stupid bugs like keepers etc. One demo but with final code. Haters only wait to attack PRO EVO. It's my opinion.

I would agree with you in an ideal world. A demo should be representative of the final product. However, I think Konami decided it was a good idea to get something out well before the Fifa demo in order to gain some interest from the Fifa community, and to be fair I think they have achieved this. There is a lot of positivity about the PES2012 demo and I think Konami will win many fans back. Those that don't appreciate PES will not be swayed, but in the long term I think the early demo will prove to be a successful tactic.

Let's not forget, Konami have made it clear at the start of the demo that it is work in progress and not the finished article. It's more of a taster.

If Konami had gone head to head with EA, releasing a demo in the same week as Fifa, I think many Fifa fans would not even think to try the PES demo, such is the media hype surrounding that franchise.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Exactly, it's already done its job, The Demo got downloaded by all, even if they hate PES 2011 they downloaded it as the FIFA demo isn't out yet, some im sure have liked it and will be intrigued what Demo 2 is like which would have otherwise have been missed out on with FIFA.

Its' a move for the underdog but the right one.

 

[gerd]

Since i'm an Xbox owner i haven't played the demo. So basically i have no right to speak.
But i have read quite a few criticisms here. It will sound as if i'm hopelessly defending Konami, but i think lots of criticism (graphics are a good example) are harsh and unjustified. Konami has warned that de the first demo was far from a finished product. The only reason they made this demo was because they wanted some feedback in order to change certain aspects (and thinking about what they did after last year's demo, this is not necessarily a good thing). So if people complain about bad GK's or other gameplay issues, their criticism is justified and even very good.

But it seems that some people expect this first demo to be the finished, polished product...that was not what Konami meant to do...so those kind of criticisms IMO are totally unjustified.

 

[Lons]

I would agree with you in an ideal world. A demo should be representative of the final product. However, I think Konami decided it was a good idea to get something out well before the Fifa demo in order to gain some interest from the Fifa community, and to be fair I think they have achieved this. There is a lot of positivity about the PES2012 demo and I think Konami will win many fans back. Those that don't appreciate PES will not be swayed, but in the long term I think the early demo will prove to be a successful tactic.

Let's not forget, Konami have made it clear at the start of the demo that it is work in progress and not the finished article. It's more of a taster.

If Konami had gone head to head with EA, releasing a demo in the same week as Fifa, I think many Fifa fans would not even think to try the PES demo, such is the media hype surrounding that franchise.

Do you seriosuly think FIFA fans when played unfinished PES demo with bugs really want buy PES? I don't thik so. In my opinion 90% FIFA fans never buy PES in this genaration becasue they want to see mechanics standard the same as FIFA.

 

[Jamezinho]

@ gerd

Yep, and while feedback will be too late for the finished game, it will give Konami plenty of info if they plan to release an early patch.

More companies should release an early demo. Gamers are used as "de facto" bug testers these days so why not make early demos common practice so that the final product is much better or can be patched more quickly?

 

[zeemeister]

You Demo Whore !!


I'm loving the philosophy behind this years game by the way, it reeks of pure football. I must admit I'm still pretty shit at the game, but alot of that is down to getting stuck with habits that worked on PES 2011. The most success I have had with the Demo, has been when I've looked to build-up the play as much as I can. Not always looking for the forward pass, but playing my percentages until gaps arise, thanks to the great movement of the A.I. The game promotes a real sense of football, with patience and composure paramount to your success. I really like that.

Now, back to Zee's question......... Where the fuck is Demo 2 ?

Haha you got me... Its fucked my PES2011 game up proper Jimmy we gonna be spending hours, upon hours in the lobby mate. I can't freaking wait

 

[Jamezinho]

Do you seriosuly think FIFA fans when played unfinished PES demo with bugs really want buy PES? I don't thik so. In my opinion 90% FIFA fans never buy PES in this genaration becasue they want to see mechanics standard the same as FIFA.

Yes!

I think we have seen opinions change on this site for instance. Many former PES players who made the switch to Fifa on this gen at the very least appreciate what PES is trying to do, even if it's far from perfect. Looking at other forums I visit I can see Fifa players enjoying the demo and definitely planning to buy PES this year.

I'm sure the sales figures for PES will be much better this year. How much of a part the early demo will have played is anyone's guess, but it will have helped.

Those that don't care for PES will not change their opinion, but that's not Konami's target market anyway.

 

[Butterfly]

pes 2012 demo suffers from many clipping and body overlapping issues most of them are obvious in one-on-one situations where some may consider these poor collision isses , some sort of cheating like when the attacker beat the defender by walking through his body , or a defender clears the ball by heading it through the attacker's head
i don't remember pes 2011 suffers from such great number of clipping and overlapping issues whether between the players themselves or between the players and the ball "feet-ball" collsions
this poor player-player collisions or feet-ball collisions sometimes make me think if pes 2012 collision system is a downgrade from the last year's collision system ??

i just hope konami is aware of these issues and to remove them "or at least decrease their frequencies in-game"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLf1zUsNHj8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvuZwkCFUHk

it's really quite embarrassing that in the year EA delivering the impact engine with solid collision system and wonderful animations produced in real-time konami responds by these awful collisions on the pitch with pl

 

[wipsnadepoo]

So any word on if we can switch clubs during ML?

 

[dach]

pes 2012 demo suffers from many clipping and body overlapping issues most of them are obvious in one-on-one situations where some may consider these poor collision isses , some sort of cheating like when the attacker beat the defender by walking through his body , or a defender clears the ball by heading it through the attacker's head
i don't remember pes 2011 suffers from such great number of clipping and overlapping issues whether between the players themselves or between the players and the ball "feet-ball" collsions
this poor player-player collisions or feet-ball collisions sometimes make me think if pes 2012 collision system is a downgrade from the last year's collision system ??

i just hope konami is aware of these issues and to remove them "or at least decrease their frequencies in-game"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLf1zUsNHj8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvuZwkCFUHk

so true the collision system in the demo is just wierd

 

[curdstar]

it's really quite embarrassing that in the year EA delivering the impact engine with solid collision system and wonderful animations produced in real-time konami responds by these awful collisions on the pitch with pl

It's also quite embarrassing that in spite of these issues with PES, EA and their tech can't match them for depth in gameplay.

Guess it is about what you consider important. for me it is depth in gameplay but that doesn't mean I don't Konami to look to offer depth in tech in future. I'm just glad Konami went with their strengths this year instead of picking a tech fight they weren't going to win.

 

[Aidan-lfc]

So any word on if we can switch clubs during ML?

I think there has been very little news about PES 12's football life (ML and BAL rolled into one) so I think you will have to hang on in there until we hear some news. The only news I can tell you is that ML and BAL have been rolled into one game mode called 'Football Life' where you can either play 'Become a player' 'become a manager' or 'become a boss (needs to be unlocked). From the screens of become a manager it looks very similar to ML so I don't think we will be able to.

 

[Lons]

Yes!

I think we have seen opinions change on this site for instance. Many former PES players who made the switch to Fifa on this gen at the very least appreciate what PES is trying to do, even if it's far from perfect. Looking at other forums I visit I can see Fifa players enjoying the demo and definitely planning to buy PES this year.

I'm sure the sales figures for PES will be much better this year. How much of a part the early demo will have played is anyone's guess, but it will have helped.

Those that don't care for PES will not change their opinion, but that's not Konami's target market anyway.

Former PES player who made the switch to FIFA it's different target from KONAMI than stricte FIFA fans. It's two different groups. I spoke about stricte FIFA fans not former Pes players. Do you know what i mean?

 

[Jamezinho]

Former PES player who made the switch to FIFA it's different target from KONAMI than stricte FIFA fans. It's two different groups. I spoke about stricte FIFA fans not former Pes players. Do you know what i mean?

Yes, that was exactly what I said. Konami are trying to win back the former PES players and from what I can see they are doing a decent job of it.

Fifa fanboys will never play PES whatever it does so why should Konami care about them? I don't think they ever have, and while Seabass is in charge they never will.

 

[kouroux]

I have just been playing on the demo for a couple of hours with yair 0.6 patch on pro level.It is tough, really fucking tough specially AC Milan.
Each goal I have made me so happy cause I had to work really hard for them.
I hope that in the final version they will improve players' awareness in terms of where the ball is, I've been conceding a stupid amount of goal due to that

 

[amier]

Fifa got nothing on this game, I mean this game.. just WOW

So i played 3 matches of Inter vs Bayern Munchen, and i'm not sure if anyone has had this or not..
But this is what happened: I took Robben completely out of his game, by defending him well and especially CLEAN in one-on-one situations.. with a 2nd man as cover and guess what?? He stopped doing it when I had a 2nd man behind me.. I was completely amazed by this.. At times he even stopped, had to turn and looked for passing options..

Never have i seen stuff like this, and this is no small detail

EXCELLENT WORK KONAMI!!!