PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

dach said:
I have a question

In the pes2012 Demo, I noticed (play Long Cam) that some players make such a quick sharp turn its physically not possible

and their own legs are crossing

I ran this question at the wemb forum, and people are saying:
its normal, go play fifa and it happens in every pes

But I dont think that the case, I think this is a big problem and it will be exploided in the long run online

AYKpPhSCMAAB9SN.jpg


AYKpZXoCIAAv5WD.jpg
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that looks wrong on so many levels:CONFUSE:
 
Pere Ubu said:
Much as I hate this forum becoming an echo chamber for WENB (fine if actual news has come out, but excitedly discussing other people's subjective - and constantly shifting - opinion as though it were holy writ is a bit embarrassing and best left to the WENB forum itself), I have to admit I was interested to read Adam Bhatti Superstar's views on goalkeepers in final code, a page or so back from here.

Seemed moderately enthusiastic, but after applying the "Bhatti filter" it sounds very much to me like goalies are still going to be broken for those of us who don't use premium teams. So keepers rated in "the high eighties" and above are now reliable with decent reaction times... well, great. Those of us planning a season in the French or Portuguese league, followed by online action with an "Other European Team" can look forward to plenty of leisurely shots from 20 yards rolling gently past despairing dives (from a standing start), I guess. Would love to be proven wrong, but anything less than a hype explosion here - and what we got was MUCH less than a hype explosion, in fact it was downright cagey - well, it's making me a bit uneasy.

Not sure we'll get many other views on this until release, because I doubt many reviewers / previewers will be putting Montpellier or Maritimo through their paces. Anyone here going to get to play review code? Rom? Rod?
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Sounds this way to me after being processed by the 'Bhatti Bullshit Filter'.

I suppose the hope is that keepers can be improved via patching. It would be a shame for such a quality experience to be ruined by Massimo Taibi-esque goalkeeping.
 
Since the PS3 versions of the game I always ask this same question and every year I get the same disappointing answer: "No, they still haven't implemented this feature". Will it be the same this year? Want to bet?

http://www.evo-web.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=52807

It's really a shame since you could do this on the PS2 versions and nowadays even FIFA managed to include this way of playing...
 
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Jamezinho said:
Sounds this way to me after being processed by the 'Bhatti Bullshit Filter'.

I suppose the hope is that keepers can be improved via patching. It would be a shame for such a quality experience to be ruined by Massimo Taibi-esque goalkeeping.
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Or we could just increase all keepers levels to above eighty accordingly.

Although i could see the problem with being online.
 
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I listened to the podcast and I think Adam is right when he says that there is something fundamentally wrong with the game engine. Keepers have been bad since PES2008 and seeing as they were good in the last gen games what other reason is there? There is no way that they could not of managed to code decent keepers in 5 games!
 
mr5973 said:
Since the PS3 versions of the game I always ask this same question and every year I get the same disappointing answer: "No, they still haven't implemented this feature". Will it be the same this year? Want to bet?

http://www.evo-web.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=52807

It's really a shame since you could do this on the PS2 versions and nowadays even FIFA managed to include this way of playing...
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Wasn't this confirmed already though? I remember Jon Murphy saying its in this time.
 
Keepers are acceptable in PES2011 - not great by any means, but generally acceptable. Just the odd rick. In the demo they're like a bad joke.

Obviously they couldn't just import goalies from 2011 - because if shooting mechanics have changed, goalies must change too. Has anyone else noticed how few shots seem to go right in the corner in this demo? Most of them seem to go in at a fairly saveable point, but are not saved. That raised a big red flag for me.
 
Pere Ubu said:
Keepers are acceptable in PES2011 - not great by any means, but generally acceptable. Just the odd rick. In the demo they're like a bad joke.

Obviously they couldn't just import goalies from 2011 - because if shooting mechanics have changed, goalies must change too. Has anyone else noticed how few shots seem to go right in the corner in this demo? Most of them seem to go in at a fairly saveable point, but are not saved. That raised a big red flag for me.
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Yeah the keepers stink in the demo but I want to see what this 2nd demo looks like first. I honestly think that this first demo is far from what the 2nd demo will be like. Because its just simply full of bugs and that starts with keepers. I can't see how the upcoming demo will not fix these issues. I mean clearly this demo is a raw product.
 
goalgerd said:
found this,shows what can be done without using the sprint button all the time and how useful the R2 button is

YouTube - What is Burst

new vid explaining new burst dribble
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For the longest time I've wanted a quick burst "mechanic," one of the better features introduced in the last few years. Very effective.

Ern Dog said:
I listened to the podcast and I think Adam is right when he says that there is something fundamentally wrong with the game engine. Keepers have been bad since PES2008 and seeing as they were good in the last gen games what other reason is there? There is no way that they could not of managed to code decent keepers in 5 games!
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That's it, isn't it? It's completely unacceptable that the likes of PES 5/6 having more intelligent keepers (though, by no means perfect) with more realistic animations than that of any of Konami's recent offerings. Every time I go back and play PES 6 I think to myself, " I wish the keepers behaved like this in ___ (insert recent PES)

Baffling.
 
YoungGun_UK said:
This. I was one of the ones that felt the demo was "quite good" and would be happy with it just being polished + Keepers improved, WENB Shot the demo down and said it was the worst version they've played so far :SHOCK:

He then tweeted once he get Review Code "He was blown away"

Quietly excited (but confident the game will match my standards at least as its nearly already their)
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just seems every year the version they have and are playing is better than the demo or the gamescon version etc etc,but something happens and their version dissappears and were all left with a slightly improved game over the demo with the super duper wenb review code lost in the konami triangle
 
As somebody said yesterday Konami need to actually use goalkeeper attributes to separate the differences between keepers. Quite frankly it's hard to tell the difference between most keepers in the game at current. Hardly any ability separates them from another. In real life you get keepers who are good at shot stopping (Ben Foster, Gomes) and those that are good at commanding the box (Friedel) and those great keepers who can do both (Cech). I do hope that Konami haven't just made average to good keepers worse in the game so that it makes great keepers look really good but Adam kind of makes it sound this way. The truth is that even average keepers can pull off wonderful saves here and there but the divide between them and great keepers is the consistency of which they can do so. Another big issue in the demo was that half the mistakes keepers made just weren't realistic and it felt cheap to concede these because there's no way the goalkeepers ability played any part in that goal, it seemed more down to bad programming of animations. Referring back to my point about goalkeeping attributes Goalkeepers asserting themselves is completely neglected in PES. Not all goalkeepers are the same at dealing with crosses or coming off their line quickly but in PES they seem to be so. Nothing in PES recently has made me think about the type of keeper i'm going to be playing.
 
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goalgerd said:
just seems every year the version they have and are playing is better than the demo or the gamescon version etc etc,but something happens and their version dissappears and were all left with a slightly improved game over the demo with the super duper wenb review code lost in the konami triangle
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Spot on, dont trust wenb. they are full of shit i think.
 
Northzzz said:
As somebody said yesterday Konami need to actually use goalkeeper attributes to separate the differences between keepers. Quite frankly it's hard to tell the difference between most keepers in the game at current. Hardly any ability separates them from another. In real life you get keepers who are good at shot stopping (Ben Foster, Gomes) and those that are good at commanding the box (Friedel) and those great keepers who can do both (Cech). I do hope that Konami haven't just made average to good keepers worse in the game so that it makes great keepers look really good but Adam kind of makes it sound this way. The truth is that even average keepers can pull off wonderful saves here and there but the divide between them and great keepers is the consistency of which they can do so. Another big issue in the demo was that half the mistakes keepers made just weren't realistic and it felt cheap to concede these because there's no way the goalkeepers ability played any part in that goal, it seemed more down to bad programming of animations. Referring back to my point about goalkeeping attributes Goalkeepers asserting themselves is completely neglected in PES. Not all goalkeepers are the same at dealing with crosses or coming off their line quickly but in PES they seem to be so. Nothing in PES recently has made me think about the type of keeper i'm going to be playing.
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There is some pic from an older we game that shows hidden specific keeper stats, saw it year ago or so over at pesstats forums
dunno if it still remains in NG versions..

and to say one thing, not a single keeper mistake/bug whatever yet for me, both ways my keeper and opponent :BOP:
 
One thing that I don't understand is why they have never given more power to players when it comes to clearing and making cross field passes.I mean a goalkeeper can clear the ball from his penalty box to the other one, that's how much power footballers can generate by shooting at the ball.
I feel it frustrating that each goal kick or clearance barely gets past the halfway line
 
kouroux said:
One thing that I don't understand is why they have never given more power to players when it comes to clearing and making cross field passes.I mean a goalkeeper can clear the ball from his penalty box to the other one, that's how much power footballers can generate by shooting at the ball.
I feel it frustrating that each goal kick or clearance barely gets past the halfway line
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You're opening a can of worms right there:P Last year defenders could clear the ball from impossible angles with the funky ball physics.

BTW the general consensus seems to be a very polarized community, even more so than last year?
 
goalgerd said:
just seems every year the version they have and are playing is better than the demo or the gamescon version etc etc,but something happens and their version dissappears and were all left with a slightly improved game over the demo with the super duper wenb review code lost in the konami triangle
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So true!!

I tried (ingenously) to say that on WENB and I got a "Bull. Shit." from Alan... ;)

Those guys are good guys, but they are incredibly biased.. my god
 
mr_man said:
You're opening a can of worms right there:P Last year defenders could clear the ball from impossible angles with the funky ball physics.

BTW the general consensus seems to be a very polarized community, even more so than last year?
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I know, it was like a bug.I just want the power bar to have a larger scope for long passes for instance.To be able to make 70-80 meters passes
 
Jamezinho said:
Sounds this way to me after being processed by the 'Bhatti Bullshit Filter'.

I suppose the hope is that keepers can be improved via patching. It would be a shame for such a quality experience to be ruined by Massimo Taibi-esque goalkeeping.
Click to expand...

Most number 1's in the world are pretty good, some outstanding, but seldomly are there bad ones, except if the numebr 1's get replaced when being injured or having got a red card, then for smaller teams the second goalkeeper is usually considerably worse than the one he tries to replace.

So my suggestion is for Konami to tweak the stats of the goalkeepers and to put them all above 80, outstanding ones can have 90+... and only the replacement-goalkeepers for weaker/smaller teams should have stats under 80...:

Problem solved.
 
I might do that myself if it ends up being an issue.

This is the worst time of the year fo sho. Konami releasing the demo of 2012 so early makes me not want to go back to PES 2011 but all the new transfers makes me want to play a football game and we've still got ages until the release of 2012 (or Fifa 2012 if that's what floats your boat).
 
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dejavu76 said:
So true!!

I tried (ingenously) to say that on WENB and I got a "Bull. Shit." from Alan... ;)

Those guys are good guys, but they are incredibly biased.. my god
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Maybe Alan and others but calling Adam a good guy is like saying PES 2008 the greatest football sim prior to its release.

Oh wait a MINUTE!!!
 
goalgerd said:
just seems every year the version they have and are playing is better than the demo or the gamescon version etc etc,but something happens and their version dissappears and were all left with a slightly improved game over the demo with the super duper wenb review code lost in the konami triangle
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Wasnt wenb saying that the passing was different in the preview code then the demo,but are now claiming its the same passing system in the review code as the demo.When the real truth is the passing systems never changed.

I dont think you have to be a games programmer to realise that the passing system of pes2012 has been built in unison with the active ai of pes2012,so to massively change or adjust what we are experiencing in the demo could fundamentally break the ai or cause more problems then it solves.Its the same with shooting and goalkeepers,these two components are linked,so to massively change one would have knock on effects on the other.Dont get me wrong,im sure improvements have been made and additional refinement,but im not expecting wholesale changes.

Konami have done a great job this year though and i would take a polished version of the demo with more graphical fidelity tommorrow.
 
henrys hand said:
Most number 1's in the world are pretty good, some outstanding, but seldomly are there bad ones, except if the numebr 1's get replaced when being injured or having got a red card, then for smaller teams the second goalkeeper is usually considerably worse than the one he tries to replace.

So my suggestion is for Konami to tweak the stats of the goalkeepers and to put them all above 80, outstanding ones can have 90+... and only the replacement-goalkeepers for weaker/smaller teams should have stats under 80...:

Problem solved.
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Great point,or they could just re-employ the old ISS system of allowing the end user to adjust the keepers on a scale of 1-3,with 3 being superhuman.

Personally,i never had a issue with the keepers in pes2011,for me konami struck the right balance and the more falible and indecisive you were in defence the more the keepers were.

In the pes2012 demo there shocking at times but also at times command there line better then pes2011.Imo the reason the keepers are so in-consistent in the demo is because of the shooting not being completely fine-tuned and finalised.Theres no doubt in my mind the demo build is heavily un-optimised and at a very similair stage of developement as last years mlo beta.
 
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