PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

dannyfc2 said:
I understand where you're coming from Jimmy, it definitely requires learning the games little nuances and feel before you truly appreciate the differences between players. But off the bat it just ain't working for me, although in time that may well change.

I can't agree with the point about all Pro footballers being that agile,definitely not below the top tier and many cases within it as well. With the exception of the few elite teams, most defenders are nowhere as near comfortable on the ball either. I like wildly having to hoof it away to someone more adept at retaining possession, but in this I never feel any particular weaknesses in players, just strengths accentuated in others.

It's not just movement either, I raised the worry of the absence of the Passers card a while ago and I'm struggling to find anyone on the demo that can play those passes others can't. This may just be an issue with the assistance settings which I hear have been tweaked, but lofted through balls especially seem universally accurate.

At the minute I'm content with the game, I can clearly see I'll enjoy it no end, but I reckon ultimately it'll lack that weird connection we develop with players we use a lot. :II
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Sorry Dan, but no Professional footballer on earth turns at the speed they do in PES 11. And dont get me wrong, I loved that slow turning as well, not because it felt or looked good, but it did define everything else. But it really wasnt realistic, and it isnt really needed now, in my opinion. What I have come to appreciate is that it's only really the agility that's changed, they just move a little quicker like footballers do, defenders included. They still lack a decent pass, weight and direction ( I play 1 Bar Pass assist and -1) they still have poor first touches, and the lesser defenders still have a poorer reading of the game.

Try playing a few games with Penarol(Sp), the individuality is clear as day, and Pachedo (sp) is a superb passer, great feet, excellent shot, and a top little play-maker. He is the only player capable of picking that killer pass. No question. Try him. I'm feeling a real difference between the rest of the team as well.

Stick at it bud, it will click. You read my early reservations even before I played the demo, then my first impressions were very damning. I can see it all Dan. Also loving how realistic you can break on counters when the game gets stretched, pretty much the only time you can clearly get round the back. The pitch has so much depth these realistic pockets open when relevant. Never seen that before in this context. The game is so well balanced, even this early code. I struggle to score to be honest, I'm a rank novice, and I love that, especially after completing Top Player 0n PES 11 in major tournaments with weak teams.

I dont like the scripted passing at times, but I'm positive thats the code, I'm using L2 for passes where I want to miss a player out. Works well for now. Also, after 30 hours of play or more, I scored a very good goal off the back of a lovely dribble with Elano. Never done anything like that before, but I truly felt like I deserved it as I shifted my weight perfectly on every occasion. Will upload it later, loved it.

YouTube - The Elano Show
 
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fanolato said:
So sad to say this, but you are completely right. The game moved away from everything I liked about PES 2011.

I'm sad today, the game is really disappoiting. I'll be fine playing PES 2011 for one more year.
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:CONFUSE:

Really? Early code demo, dude, early code demo...

After plenty of games I'm finally becoming accustomed to the defending and dribbling and learning to love them :D. Though I still think I still think the agility of your Gattusos and Fletchers need to be toned down significantly. There isn't enough of a difference between the top tier technical players and your average defensive player with the ball at his feet. It really makes it harder to play a pressing game too because you can't isolate the technically deficient opposition players.
 
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They should make players with less control back off when they find a defender coming at them. Maybe turn and shield the ball then pass it to another player until it reaches the likes of Robinho who should also think about passes if it is not possible. Not just take the ball and go for a chance to get past every defender every time.
 
I played the demo some more to find out what's going on with the dribbling. In the demo if a player makes even the smallest change of direction while with the ball, that means the opponent marking it will miss him when tackling.

It's a very computer-like approach, yeah the angle changed from -30 to -31 degree, the tackling opponent was going for the -30 degree angle, result: He has to miss him!

That is not what happens in real-life football between dribbler and defender, the defender goes in and the dribbler changes direction, the defender adapts even in the moment he is already going in and changes slightly the angle of his feet to get the ball yet, half anticipating such a change from the dribbler.. and if the change by the dribbler is not wider than the possible adaption-angle by the defender or fast enough or in a direction the defender couldn't possibly anticipate, he will fail.

In the game it is very 0 1 and misses the whole analogue adaption thing defenders can and have to do to in real life.

Same goes for dribblers bursting right into defenders straight on in the game, because of this digital 0 1 approach, the dribbler can easily find his way through if there is even a millimeter of space... in real life a dribbler would in 90% of cases fail with such a direct straight-on-approach to defenders because defenders can easily adapt and get a foot in, and someone coming near their bodies will be pushed aside... even Messi would not go full straight onto the defenders, although he has this magical talent to bounce off defenders and keep the ball.

Of course this is an early demo so it's probable that later codes have built-in a more analogue approach to this...
 
I'm just back from holidays.
It seem there is a demo out. I can't find anyting on Xbox Live. Is it only a PC demo? Or is the demo just for a fewselected regions? (I'm living in Belgium).

Secondly, as a long serving member and maybe the oldest member of the forum, i think we should know why lami was banned. like somebody said, banning a mod points to something very serious. Please explain.

Sorry for these questions.
 
gerd you know where the search is mate. There is NO xbox 360 demo until sept.

As for the other, its not our divine right to know, whatever it is im sure will get sorted out with those involved.
 
I agree with you Gerd. For me Lami was/is a perfect moderator.

About the Xbox - demo: It was rejected by microsoft.
Some people say the language for the UK was the wrong one, others say it was because the PC version was leaked two days too early and Microsoft rules say that demos for different consoles should be simultaniously.
 
No worries here, Lami wasn't banned. The nifty fucker only changed his user title as far as I can tell
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@Jimmy

Is the manual pass with LT still the same? I felt it was perfect in pes 2011 and I was truly surprised by the variation you could achieve, after playing PES 2011 for 9 months I came to use it for every pass and as you know you can literally place the ball anywhere, obviously the position of your player and other variables come into play but I thought it was perfect and didn't need much change. I also felt stats still effected it somewhat especially when using the outside of the foot, players with passer card also produced crisper manual passes with less bobble along the ground.

I also thought long balls were perfect in 2011, hopefully not to much changed here either. Would appreciate some feedback if you get the chance.
 
L2 is the same, if not slightly better. I'm using it alot right now with no problems at all. L2 high pass with R2 aftertouch is very useful.


Congratulations Lami and his better half, all the best. :)
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
L2 is the same, if not slightly better. I'm using it alot right now with no problems at all. L2 high pass with R2 aftertouch is very useful.
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Aftertouch?

I havn't played PES 2012, but aftertouch would be very surprising, and unrealistic. If you could change the trajectory of the ball after it's been kicked, then the animation wouldn't match the flight of the ball. It wasn't in PES 2011 and it's not been mentioned anywhere.
It kind of belongs in the 90's :LOL:.

Holding R2 on a lofted pass or cross adds more elevation to the ball, is that what you meant?
 
It does curl Zee, but it isnt initiated by a button press. Anyway, you must have appreciated that Elano goal and dribble, right up your street.
 
Lucky me, an hour ago I discovered I still had the PES 2011 demo on my PC's harddisk, that means the last hour I spent comparing the two demos under the same settings: 1280*960 (or something like that) with highest details.

I played with Barcelona against Bayern Munich in the PES 2011 demo, and with Barcelona against Manchester United in the PES 2012 demo.

The first big difference that immediately got noticed was that the player-models were very different, in PES 2011 they are bigger and more detailed, seem more real... compared to that the playermodels in PES 2012 are like mini-me's, a bit cartoony.

The second big difference is animation, in PES 2011 it's a bit stiff and unresponsive at times, in PES 2012 it's very fluid and responsive, no issues there. I think Konami had to change the player-models, to make them smaller and less detailed, less real to get them smoothly animated.

The third difference is dribbling and tackling, in PES 2011 it depends very much on which player you have at hand, a defender is most likely unable to dribble at all, so you better pass the ball when an opponent nears you, it's a bit unrealistic, after all defenders are also footballers and should be able to dribble a bit, this is better in PES 2012, everyone knows the basics of football and can play a bit with the ball.

Tackling though is way better in the PES 2011 demo and it is also way better than in the retail version of PES 2011 (really can't understand how they could destroy this perfect system with the retail-version), it has the perfect balance between attacker and defender and it feels very realistic. In PES 2012 demo it is very computerlike, if you miss the tackle by one degree or if the opponent changes angle by a single degree you will miss, rediculous,,, defenders are after all humans and they know that the opponent will try to change angle a bit and anticipate it and adapt if it is still within the range of his feet. Worse strikers can march through defenders when they see a millimeter of space as if defenders had no body to push them aside...

I repeat myself but the tacklingsystem in the PES 2011 demo is simply perfect, that's how it should be in PES 2012.

The fourth difference is AI... in PES 2011 demo the attacking AI of the CPU is not as strong as in PES 2012, simple as that but on the other hand the defense AI in the PES 2011 demo is better than in PES 2012 demo, they keep their defense lines better, ie. they use zonal defense, are harder to break down, use offside-trappings effectively... in PES 2012 demo they use a marking-system which is outdated, ie. they mark opponents individually and through that it's very easy to break down defense, to destroy their defense-lines... they never use offside-trappings...

So all in all it's about even regarding AI between the two demos, the one has better attacking-AI, the other better defense-AI.

But what about teamplayer-AI... I remember Seabass' video about PES 2012 offering groundbreaking AI that makes runs you would expect them to, diagonal runs, backward-runs, dummy runs... depending on the situation... well honestly I didn't see that much of it in the PES 2012 demo. But there was a bit more activity than in the PES 2011 demo.

The fifth difference is individuality, in PES 2011 demo it is balatantly obvious, in PES 2012 demo it is more subtle but also there, all in all I would say both have their pros and cons, I call it even steven on this one.

Verdict: Neither one is the clear winner, the PES 2012 demo is clearly more responsive and smoother and more alive with better attacking-AI but on the other hand Konami didn't take care to keep the simulation-appeal the PES 2011 demo offers, which has more realistic playermodels and a better tackling-mechanism/logic as well as better and more realistic defense AI... PES 2012 demo is definitely more arcade, everything is more slick and things work perfectly most of the time, gamepace is faster...

Second verdict:COOL:: I can't imagine that the direction PES 2012 takes should be the future of PES, maybe it's just this one gem Konami offers to the fans that wished to have something as fun as PES 5/6 on this gen. Hopefully with PES 2013 and following Konami returns to the simulation-route PES 2011 demo was on, albeit with better attacking AI and better animation.
 
:WORSHIP::APPLAUD:Nice one Jimmy G nice one indeed. Good thing you mentioned it else it would slip under my radar.

Edit: Jesus navas Jimmy I have watched that too many times and fighting the urge to boot up the demo. I still have 4 fixtures to complete damnit!!
 
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Still haven't won a game in the demo. Granted, I only have like 10 games but it's still pretty bad. I tried knocking it down to Regular and noticed that my passes were suddenly a lot better on 1 assist then they are on Top player/Professional. And I was winning that game but I let in an own goal last minute as I don't want to win my first game on Regular. That's right I have PES standards.
 
henrys hand said:
I repeat myself but the tacklingsystem in the PES 2011 demo is simply perfect, that's how it should be in PES 2012.

The fourth difference is AI... in PES 2011 demo the attacking AI of the CPU is not as strong as in PES 2012, simple as that but on the other hand the defense AI in the PES 2011 demo is better than in PES 2012 demo, they keep their defense lines better, ie. they use zonal defense, are harder to break down, use offside-trappings effectively... in PES 2012 demo they use a marking-system which is outdated, ie. they mark opponents individually and through that it's very easy to break down defense, to destroy their defense-lines... they never use offside-trappings...
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So you say the defense in PES 2011 was better than in PES 2012, right? Let me point on one detail that destroyed the defense-system in PES 2011: Cursor-switching!! That was so bad... it allowed your opponent to go right past your defense. That problem is solved now, which is a great improvement.
So all in all it's about even regarding AI between the two demos, the one has better attacking-AI, the other better defense-AI.
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So all in all, because the better cursor-switching PES 2012 wins it :)
But what about teamplayer-AI... I remember Seabass' video about PES 2012 offering groundbreaking AI that makes runs you would expect them to, diagonal runs, backward-runs, dummy runs... depending on the situation... well honestly I didn't see that much of it in the PES 2012 demo. But there was a bit more activity than in the PES 2011 demo.
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Maybe you are joking? I almost believe you do. One advice: Set a match at assistent mode and let the cpu play cpu and watch the whole match at the radar. You will rethink :BYE:
Verdict: Neither one is the clear winner, the PES 2012 demo is clearly more responsive and smoother and more alive with better attacking-AI but on the other hand Konami didn't take care to keep the simulation-appeal the PES 2011 demo offers, which has more realistic playermodels and a better tackling-mechanism/logic as well as better and more realistic defense AI... PES 2012 demo is definitely more arcade, everything is more slick and things work perfectly most of the time, gamepace is faster...

Second verdict:COOL:: I can't imagine that the direction PES 2012 takes should be the future of PES, maybe it's just this one gem Konami offers to the fans that wished to have something as fun as PES 5/6 on this gen. Hopefully with PES 2013 and following Konami returns to the simulation-route PES 2011 demo was on, albeit with better attacking AI and better animation.
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Virdict: PES 2012 is a clear winner :SMUG:
 
*Cough*
Yea umm I'm here. Thanks for your worries and congrats fellas.

Sorry about all this mess. Bad joke eh. Tbh I didn't expect it all. Sorry again.

strange_kitten.jpg

On topic,

Well I haven't been playing 2012 for the last 3 days, busy with my newborn. I want to get back into it soon or I might loose my touch :II
 
Lami said:
*Cough*
Yea umm I'm here. Thanks for your worries and congrats fellas.

Sorry about all this mess. Bad joke eh. Tbh I didn't expect it all. Sorry again.

strange_kitten.jpg

On topic,

Well I haven't been playing 2012 for the last 3 days, busy with my newborn. I want to get back into it soon or I might loose my touch :II
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Either that isn't a baby pic, or there's something wrong with your baby, still, it does look cute. :SMUG:

Congratulations mate - PES can wait - enjoy your baby.
 
henrys hand said:
Tackling though is way better in the PES 2011 demo and it is also way better than in the retail version of PES 2011 (really can't understand how they could destroy this perfect system with the retail-version), it has the perfect balance between attacker and defender and it feels very realistic. In PES 2012 demo it is very computerlike, if you miss the tackle by one degree or if the opponent changes angle by a single degree you will miss, rediculous,,, defenders are after all humans and they know that the opponent will try to change angle a bit and anticipate it and adapt if it is still within the range of his feet. Worse strikers can march through defenders when they see a millimeter of space as if defenders had no body to push them aside...
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I agree with most of what you said but tackling is unrealistically better in 2011. The tackles mostly resulted in winning the ball from the hopeless attacker. 2012 foundation is great but the execution is not perfect so let's hope it gets better.
 
Lami said:
*Cough*
Yea umm I'm here. Thanks for your worries and congrats fellas.

Sorry about all this mess. Bad joke eh. Tbh I didn't expect it all. Sorry again.

strange_kitten.jpg

On topic,

Well I haven't been playing 2012 for the last 3 days, busy with my newborn. I want to get back into it soon or I might loose my touch :II
Click to expand...

Congrats mate ;) hope you got yourself a future socceroo :)

In regards to PES... anyone got news on ML?
 
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