PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

wabak said:
The first bit when he goes through the two players, were you by any chance holding the two pressure buttons? I've dreamed to be able to do that in a football game for a while, and right there I thought it looked gorgeous.

Then the step overs/body feint, just looked great imo... I'm not sure what you're expecting your defense to do in that situation? One of your players sticks a foot in and Robinho skins him, I don't see the problem? lol, I guess all those defenders in real life must hate Messi and his super AI.

The only problem I see is that he shoots a little too quick for my liking, another touch would have looked better.

and it was ROBINHO, not exactly the worst dribbler...
Click to expand...
Oh REALLY? Are you serious? First, I didn't double pressure the AI sometime assigns someone to go for the ball when I am jockeying and the assigned player or the 2nd defender if I am double pressuring never does anything useful.

Second, I was actually jockeying in both cases but he still got past me. The AI doesn't care if you jockey, cover, press or double press. It just sees opportunity to move forward and dribble through everyone. Seriously you see it fine that Robinho "skinned" half of my time in 2 seconds? And that's when I am jockeying, don't know what would happen if I am double pressuring really!!
 
I do generally agree. Jockeying in real life often deters the dribbler from making such an expressive forward run because he doesn't want to sprint straight into the defender or too close to him because the defender will have the upper hand as he will be able to, most of the time, get a foot in and push the ball away. Not in this game. The cpu has no reservations about dribbling straight into you. I also noticed the same thing during multiplayer too and have said that there may be some kind of exploiting there in the future if it stays the same.

I have adapated my own defending and do a decent job for the most part but i definitely feel like the CPU has no fear when dribbling straight at my defence. That said the whole AC Milan team is stupidly overrated and Robinho is public enemy number 1 as far as i'm concerned. You'd think he was perfect at dribbling and could take it past anybody if this demo is anything to go by.

Has anybody scored from a corner? I haven't scored or conceded from one at all in about 10 hours of play. I've got my head to the ball a few times but it's just sailed into the air about 8 feet above the goal. Oddly enough even unmarked players did the same thing.
 
Last edited:
AlaaEG said:
Oh REALLY? Are you serious? First, I didn't double pressure the AI sometime assigns someone to go for the ball when I am jockeying and the assigned player or the 2nd defender if I am double pressuring never does anything useful.

Second, I was actually jockeying in both cases but he still got past me. The AI doesn't care if you jockey, cover, press or double press. It just sees opportunity to move forward and dribble through everyone. Seriously you see it fine that Robinho "skinned" half of my time in 2 seconds? And that's when I am jockeying, don't know what would happen if I am double pressuring really!!
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm serious, we wanted better AI and we got it, now it's too hard to defend against and it needs toning down? I don't get it.

First two players go towards him, and he jumps through the middle of them (you see he actually gets affected by the way he moves afterwards) this then leaves a huge gap which means he got way too close to your goal before any other defenders appeared, then one of the other two sticks a foot in, Robinho skins him and smacks it in?

If your AI player is going with your controlled player every time, change your tactics.

I just don't see the big issue here... if you had scored that you would be over the moon and consider it a great goal, but b/c the AI scored it they are cheating and super human.

?? am I missing something

edit: I do agree though OVERALL that they are a bit too good at evading standing tackles, just in this case I don't see a huge problem... must just be me.

If the game goes back to PES 11 defending though, I'll stab somebody. :)
 
I find it that doing closer jockeying (when pressing R2+X, releasing R2 for a split second and press again) helps in tackling more efficiently.

Also, with the PC patch that adds Barcelona, pressuring and tackling with the likes of Puyol and Pique is so much easier.
 
henrys hand
you are spot on in yor assessment between 'arcade v sim'
the thing is tho,that n pes2012 demo the players feel 'ALIVE'
and that i think may outway how pes2011 feels n plays
sure there isnt the same kind of danger you were refering to with pes2011 but it may just come down to how you want to play out the game in a more realistic 'real' type of style with pes2012-dont always look for the easy pass -mix it up so it not always easy to have perfect ball control around the pitch
yes it does seem that its a little to easy to pass around and control the ball when ever person wants too

hope next demo they can tweek the power n placement to b more diffulcult to execute
 
wabak said:
Yeah I'm serious, we wanted better AI and we got it, now it's too hard to defend against and it needs toning down? I don't get it.

First two players go towards him, and he jumps through the middle of them (you see he actually gets affected by the way he moves afterwards) this then leaves a huge gap which means he got way too close to your goal before any other defenders appeared, then one of the other two sticks a foot in, Robinho skins him and smacks it in?

If your AI player is going with your controlled player every time, change your tactics.

I just don't see the big issue here... if you had scored that you would be over the moon and consider it a great goal, but b/c the AI scored it they are cheating and super human.

?? am I missing something

edit: I do agree though OVERALL that they are a bit too good at evading standing tackles, just in this case I don't see a huge problem... must just be me.

If the game goes back to PES 11 defending though, I'll stab somebody. :)
Click to expand...
Man, HALF OF MY DEFENSE GOT SKINNED GOD DAMMIT! What would Messi do if Robinho can dribble through 5 players? All what I am saying is that when I am jockeying I need to feel that the AI starts thinking about options instead of running into me! How hard is it to understand that this is what realistically should happen?

Also here is what the keeper does when I am pressuring inside the box:
YouTube - PES 2012 pressure the keeper!
 
AlaaEG said:
Man, HALF OF MY DEFENSE GOT SKINNED GOD DAMMIT! What would Messi do if Robinho can dribble through 5 players? All what I am saying is that when I am jockeying I need to feel that the AI starts thinking about options instead of running into me! How hard is it to understand that this is what realistically should happen?

Also here is what the keeper does when I am pressuring inside the box:
YouTube - PES 2012 pressure the keeper!
Click to expand...

It's not hard to understand and trust me I do, I agree that the AI are a bit too eager to take a man on instead of looking for passing options, but in this situation I felt he had every right to go for it after going past your first 2, hence I don't see a problem? lol

I dunno, I'm just stating my opinion... I know that if he done that to 2 of my players, I would have made another rush out right away to try get in the way, not let him approach and get in my box before attempting to tackle him.

Edit: and Robinho dribbled 'through' 2 players, the other 2 he didn't go past, just feinted and got a shot away...
 
Last edited:
Isn't it strange how preconceptions can alter quite dramatically through insight and appreciation ? Pre-conceived beliefs shattered as a firmer understanding becomes almost glaringly transparent. Well, that's where I'm at right now. PES is game that endeavours to replicate football, it provides that year after year, albeit with a differing philosophy. Football is football, Konami never seek to re-invent the wheel with every addition, but what they do is offer a different vision, an alternate philosophy. In order to fully appreciate their work, we need to understand and buy into what they are striving to achieve. The most successful titles to date have been the variants that we struggle to grasp from the interim. See PES 5. Only after hardened play-testing, can we begin to appreciate and understand the direction laid before us. Its not just about how we want to play the game, but how the game wants us to play it.

Taking every flaw into consideration within the current build, I can safely say I turned yet another corner last night. I began to 'feel' what this new title is all about, and with that came a huge sense of excitement. Every new PES is designed in a certain way, and being very naturally football-minded, I enjoy dissecting the vision. Each is different, very few editions if any, follow the same principle. What we have right now, deep below the cosmetics and flaws, is a game that in my opinion, will be the most balanced yet. Make no mistake, this will be a very deep game, and although it looks more simplified from the outside, it's actually anything but.

My life-long concerns with regards to complete responsiveness being detrimental to the success of highlighting individualism, I'm happy to say have been banished for good. There is a level of individualim within this code that is both subtle and ingenius in one. What I've come to accept after playing this code is that individuality doesnt have to be blatant, it still has it's place, and it's not truly compromised in the name of progression. Which is what we have. We could argue that the 'Oil-Tanker' turns from lesser defenders within PES 2011 are not realistic, that would be true. The artistic licence worked though, and we were given a lesser benchmark for which a better class of defenders could be defined. But is that really needed if we can create a more realistic professional defender that is still made of many variables to his skill-set ? Probably not. Not if the structure of the vision for a more realistic and fluid experience can be met.

The balance to this new version of PES is key to it's success, and that's where it will excel like no other. The foundations for the new defensive system opens so many new doors. For the first time ever the defending skills required in PES will be just as important as the attacking alternate. Nothing in football is as exciting as seeing a player run and take on another. It's mesmirising, it's what gets fans out there seats. From a player perspective, there is nothing more thrilling. It's man on man, or with Lionel, man on 4 men. With 22 players on the pitch, you play man for man, to take out an opposing player with a drop of the shoulder, takes him out of the game and opens up so many options. And this is what we have here. A true battle of wits, never truly seen before in this context. We've had sprint whores in PES, many of them, and often. There was no skill to that though, now there is. It's not about speed, it's about the shifting of weight and how we deal with it. It's a new concept that really will change how we play the game.

PES 11, which I loved, and appreciated, had the 'Catch-up Bug', it was a deliberate bug to combat the 'Sprinters', and in turn ensure a more passing related philosophy. Instead of fast players, we were given killer through-balls. Great in theory, but at the expense of one of the most exciting aspects of football, speed. Again, it was a differing philosophy, and although enjoyable, was severely lacking in hindsight.

After soley playing the PES 12 demo, over 3 days and 25 hours, I played a PEEL fixture last night, and the success of the Pressure tactic hit home hard. It was beyond horrific, and it really hit home just how much this new PES promotes a much higher level of football in every conceivable area. I'm alarmed how I could have accepted this lazy, cowardly excuse for Pressure defending in PES 11. And I've loved the game all year. Sure the Pressure irritated me, but I accepted it. After playing PES 12, I can't anymore.

My initial fears with regards how will the momentum and inertia be compromised with the advent of such a responsive experience have also been quashed. It's still there, and very apparent once you submerge yourself within this new vision. I captured a lovely new animation last night that really made me smile. The pass was behind my player initially, but he read it and improvised accordingly with a picture perfect technical toe trap. It's these little features that excite me, they are so subtle but massively realistic.



I also had a play around with the new Explosive Burst trick, I really like how that is implemented and it will serve purpose as yet another weapon against the Pressure whores.



The bottom-line is that I'm so glad to be proved so wrong with many pre-conceptions I had. Yes I still have an issue with the keepers, the passing to the wrong man bug, the over-assistance with passing in general and everything else that people have mentioned. But, I can now truly see where Seabass is going with this game, and it's a completely different level to anything I have seen before. This will be the most balanced PES ever, I have absolutely no doubt about that. Roll on demo two.....

As 2 player PES games go, it doesnt get much better than this.. ..

YouTube - Porto v Napoli
 
Last edited:
Sometimes there's such double standards on this forum. If it was the case in Fifa that the computer dribbles straight through you too much instead of looking for realistic options to make a pass then people would be screaming about how 'arcadey' that was.

I don't get it.
 
Last edited:
After another few hours with the demo I have to say that this is the definitive PES. It is awesome to defend a one goal lead and be successful.

I hope konami do not change it. As far as I am concerned its like the tackling situation in the demo for PES2011 people moaned about tackles being too harsh and a good feature was removed.

The defending is spot on. If you having problems take your finger off the R1 and x buttons. In fact make yourself not play with the R1 at all and you may find a good game of football.


After having a good go this morning I would go so far as to say that the shooting is not bad either its just a new learning curve. Keepers are absolute horseshit though lol
 
zeemeister said:
The defending is spot on. If you having problems take your finger off the R1 and x buttons. In fact make yourself not play with the R1 at all and you may find a good game of football.


After having a good go this morning I would go so far as to say that the shooting is not bad either its just a new learning curve. Keepers are absolute horseshit though lol
Click to expand...

I agree. I think the defending is pretty decent bar some issues i'm having with my team-mates who i'm not controlling not picking up dangerous players in the box.

I think half the problems people find about defending aren't inherently an issue with defending but stem from the attackers having too much control when dribbling and turning in small spaces. Like this whole Robinho taking it past 4/5 players we keep on hearing about.
 
Northzzz said:
Sometimes there's such double standards on this forum. If it was the case in Fifa that the computer dribbles straight through you too much instead of looking for realistic options to make a pass then people would be screaming about how 'arcadey' that was.

I don't get it.
Click to expand...

Was that aimed at me? lol

I've said a few times that the AI are too eager to take a man on and I'd prefer it if they looked for passing options more often instead of just trying to go past you.

My stance against that video is that it didn't look wrong at all (imo) and that it was a great goal.
 
wabak said:
It's not hard to understand and trust me I do, I agree that the AI are a bit too eager to take a man on instead of looking for passing options, but in this situation I felt he had every right to go for it after going past your first 2, hence I don't see a problem? lol

I dunno, I'm just stating my opinion... I know that if he done that to 2 of my players, I would have made another rush out right away to try get in the way, not let him approach and get in my box before attempting to tackle him.

Edit: and Robinho dribbled 'through' 2 players, the other 2 he didn't go past, just feinted and got a shot away...
Click to expand...
You are talking as if the first 2 players were bound to be dribbled through anyway. No matter what I do!:CONFUSE:
 
AlaaEG said:
You are talking as if the first 2 players were bound to be dribbled through anyway. No matter what I do!:CONFUSE:
Click to expand...

Not at all, how many times has it happened to you? I can safely say it has NEVER happened to me yet.

Just in the video you showed to prove your point, it happened.

:CONFUSE:
 
WOW nice write up there Jimmy G.
I love how bothered the pressure whores are by this game and the CPU running through them

Please dont change it konami pleeeeeeaaaaaaaaaasssseeeeeeee
 
I'll tell you something else I noticed after going back to PES 11 Zee, the size of the pitch. It's huge in PES 12, massive depth to it, which is another feature structured around this years philosophy. It promotes space, it promotes football. :)
 
Glad to see more positivity. God I need that demo. . . or a PS3. Am closer than ever to buying one... *runs his fingers through a non existent beard*
 
wabak said:
Not at all, how many times has it happened to you? I can safely say it has NEVER happened to me yet.

Just in the video you showed to prove your point, it happened.

:CONFUSE:
Click to expand...
My point with that video is that I jockey a lot but still the AI doesn't care about what I do. The first 2 players were 1 controlled by me jockeying like the second 2. My jockeying player is the one who attempted to tackle automatically in the second 2. What else should I do to stop Robinho? I've used all the options of defending and still conceded a goal!
 
OK lads - I downloaded the PC demo last night as I couldn't wait anylonger for the Xbox version. My impressions are as follows:

Animations are really good! the driven shot and placed shot outside 18 yards are excellent animations. FIFA esque but without the wind up time in the arm movement. Love em!

The ball travels better too on the shots. Bounce before they go in or travel with outside swerve etc. The one thing I can't see yet and it could be the player's I used or it might be the ball physics but the placed shots don't curl really. It might look great from gameplay camera and then you go into the replay and that last third of the ball's trajectory should come back towards the goals but it stays straight. If they could get that right, it would be perfect!!! I'm optimistic based on the R2 shots are back tweets recently.

Balance of the game is great too. The AI opens up space and makes runs for you but you never feel like it's exploitable or going to lead to a scoring chance everytime someone goes forward...and that's due to the defensive AI covering the runs really well. UNLIKE FIFA which pulls your defenders out of shape most of the time!!!

Didn't get many crosses in because the defenders did well to block them - also noticed a couple of crosses didn't go right to the striker and he got wrong footed a little. Was a nice touch. Have noticed a few players get wrong footed and not recover straight away - which tells us that momentum is a factor.

I also noticed players falling over sometimes as if they slipped on the surface. Did you notice that?? Off the ball.

Hitting long balls to switch the play or something felt a bit off. Half the time it went to the wrong place...and I tried it with full pass assistance and 2 bars.

Some nice variation in passing strength too. I liked the ones that were little cushioned touches because your player was close. Passing overall feels quite different to PES 2011 though don't you think or it could also be my video card.
 
wabak said:
Was that aimed at me? lol

I've said a few times that the AI are too eager to take a man on and I'd prefer it if they looked for passing options more often instead of just trying to go past you.

My stance against that video is that it didn't look wrong at all (imo) and that it was a great goal.
Click to expand...

No it wasn't aimed at anybody in particular. It simply appears to me that collectively some people can overlook some things in this demo, almost put a rosey tint on things, when they wouldn't necessarilly do the same thing if it was Fifa that we were talking about.

That was either a fantastic goal where he took it round 4 players and put the ball in the onion bag or an unrealistic piece of decision making to take on 4 players in such quick succession and looked like he went round them far too easily. It's down to interpretation. I sit somewhere in the middle. That close control was too good for me not to be a bit critical about it. Even the best players miscontrol the ball or push it more than a yard in front of them when dribbling, especially under that much pressure.
 
Last edited:
Rodelero said:
Glad to see more positivity. God I need that demo. . . or a PS3. Am closer than ever to buying one... *runs his fingers through a non existent beard*
Click to expand...

I got a MadCatz 360 controller from ASDA for £10, couldn't wait any longer on the 360 one lol, so just playing on PC.

I looked at that wireless thing for the PC you were on about btw, £8 on eBay... not bad. Just decided on getting the wired controller for £2 more as cba waiting a few days. (I'm ezioisawesome on twitter)
 
Northzzz said:
Has anybody scored from a corner? I haven't scored or conceded from one at all in about 10 hours of play. I've got my head to the ball a few times but it's just sailed into the air about 8 feet above the goal. Oddly enough even unmarked players did the same thing.
Click to expand...

If you use the right stick to control a player and then adjust your movement so you can time it with where the ball is going, you can score headed goals from corners. I've scored a few with Ibrahimovic this way based on player movement. I wasn't finding much success with the nomral way of taking corners. It's not foolproof, but its more fun to move around and jostle in the box, to time your movement to connect with headers.
 
Northzzz said:
I agree. I think the defending is pretty decent bar some issues i'm having with my team-mates who i'm not controlling not picking up dangerous players in the box.

I think half the problems people find about defending aren't inherently an issue with defending but stem from the attackers having too much control when dribbling and turning in small spaces. Like this whole Robinho taking it past 4/5 players we keep on hearing about.
Click to expand...

There's too much precision and control all around in the game, be it dribbling, passing... I'm not advocating a return to PES 2011's molassing controls for defenders but I find it more realistic and enjoyable when players have to do something to get a ball under control.

As to Robinho's ability to outdribble 2 or 4 defenders, it's a bit exaggerated, he should be able to do it but not every time he tries it, in reality he could do it for once or twice in a whole match... in game he can do it potentially everytime he has the ball.

I guess that's Konami's problem in development: If Konami builds in a certain ability to a player then he can do it always, but there should be something like a probability-level built in to to make him able to do this for 10% of the time or some other variable... Variation is key.

The other thing is the missing stamina-system, there is a fatigue-system but no stamina-system, that means that using these bursts and dribbling out of numerous defenders doesn't force the players to take a few moments to get back their breath and their fatigue is only influenced by the meters run but not by the additional hit it should take through the often use of bursts and dribbling-phases...

A realistic two-tiered-stamina-fatigue-system that takes into account that bursting and dribbling drains more than merely jogging the pitch up and down would go a long way to make things more realistic and more balanced.
 
I scored a beauty with Neymar from a throw in. He was on the corner of the 6 yard box. I picked him with the right stick, direct throw in and he flicked it on with his head past the keeper at his near post ;)

The good thing though I've noticed, is that the ability to pick someone out like that doesn't always mean they can score from it - they get well tracked by defenders. Good to see Konami have maintained the balance :)
 
Passing:
After I got used to it (playing 3/4 bars of assistance) it was way to easy! On Top Player In my COM opponents half I was able to Pass 14 times by one touch passing in a row! thats just wrong, since I played with Napoli against ManU. To be honest It might be the assistance (and surely is) but after a while I didn't have to think or concentrate on where I was passing, the assistance passing is like a crazy laser. How hard you press or the direction doesn't matter that much,
The point is, that if you switch to a less assistance passing bar (let's say 2/4, or 1/4) it will obviously will get more rewarding, but what happens when you play against a human and not against COM? Isn't your opponent in a better position by using more assistance in passing? it should be the other way round actually (like one forum member mentioned earlier!), but at this demo stage i doubt it. final game will tell! what do you think about that?

Shooting:
Same here. A bit to easy. After 5 games I got used to hit and due to the "bad" goalkeepers i score twice a game min. The point is that Pes 2011 had its issues in shooting but was really rewarding. Hope it gets a bit harder in final version!

Player Movement:
Please don't understand me wrong, but in this demo build it feels a bit fifaesque with the skating. And some moves of fast players are so inhumanly fast it doesn't look real anymore. I mean the wrongfooting feature in this game is a real highlight but the turning speed of some players is way too fast in regards to the whole game pace. to my dissapointment i saw some moves (including Hulk who turned 180degrees on his own axe within a sec and had a perfect shoot) which are not really realistic.

Defending:
I have an akward feeling while i'm holding up play by the COM Team with r2 in this demo.

Let's say I try to hold up robinho who is running towards my defender. In most cases:

A) I press r2 and try to block his way. Seems to work really good since my defender keeps position and tries to block robinhos way -robinho slows down or tries to pass to a teammate, or or or...actually COM is aware that i push r2 button.

B) If I don't press the r2 button Robinho is not aware that I'm by any possibilty standing in his way with my defender. He just runs by(!), if no one is there to stop him!

So this case could just simply illustrate that you have to think a lot more, and to push the right buttons to hold up an attacking COM.

BUT

it just doesn't feel that right that the computer is aware that i'm pressing r2, or that i even HAVE to press r2 to make him aware of the defender or stop him down since the positoning and animation of my defender is the same even if i dont use hold up play.

Keepers:
Last but not least I want to mention that I found the Goalkeepers above a total of 85 in Pes 2011 not that bad! They had there issues when they had to run out, but where really good on line, especially with a red form arrow.
 
I also had a play around with the new Explosive Burst trick, I really like how that is implemented and it will serve purpose as yet another weapon against the Pressure whores.
Click to expand...

I like that new burst move where you can use R1+R2 from walking pace to dash past someone. You could previously only do this while sprinting (you can also double tap R1 as well to knock the ball ahead in a separate move). Great whenever you see a bit of space that you can hurl yourself into. Players like Robinho and Neymar who have a high 'Explosive Power' stat (which I'm guessingf mixes acceleration with agility) can be really effective if used in the right situations.
 
goalgerd said:
all new kit templates for pes 2012

<snip>

there will be no problems making kits now ,all nike adidas reebok and puma templates have been updated
Click to expand...

Cheers goalgerd.

Nice to see Konami have switched things up a bit, although many of the kit templates look same old, same old, particularly the shorts.

Any word on whether details like club crests and names can be added to the shorts and socks so they look more realistic?

I really hope one day Konami copies the vinyl editor in Forza Motorsport. Then there would be no limits on what the editing community could do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom