PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Good good, hadn't noticed any personally.

Another thing I've noticed is, despite the improvements to the Advantage rule, it still seems to be possible to foul people off the ball and get away with it (Nasty slide tackles, not just clips).
 
arthurm said:
Defence is totally unrealistic and makes the game look ridiculous, with every cpu player in the game is now able to dribble through packs of players in a way that Messi can only achieve occassionally.

When your get a pack of your players around the attacker, and you are of course only able to control one of them, the rest literally stand and watch even if you get a tackle in a clip the ball away from the attacker. The ball can be right there waiting for one of your team mates to take it, but they just stand and wait until the attacker gets it again. They may as well be playing for the opposition.

It's a different defending system than they use in FIFA, but it's equally poor.
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maybe thats the reason konami added the ai tackle assistance,have you tried the demo with the tackle assistance on?
 
beachryan said:
The defense is broken. It is incredibly unrealistic how easy it is for any CPU player to simply cut straight through upwards of 4 defenders. The only people disagreeing are simply ridiculous at the game already or seeing what they want to see.
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In my experience of the demo, the CPU AI have 'skipped' passed me easily when I hold X and just try steam roll in, if I play it proper and contain and time my tackles, I win it a lot more.

I do agree that the AI players are a little too good at evading standing tackles, but if you try defend like you do in 2011 (majority just hold X and the work is done for them) then you'll get slaughtered.

It's a different kind of PES game, doesn't matter how good you are at the others... you're still going to have to re-learn some things.
 
I thought it was brilliant, first attempt on the "training" I pressed "X" he skipped past me like I wasn't their. Pressed redo and this time contained but eventually lost out, 3rd time contained, waited for the chance to tackle and vola!
 
beachryan said:
For me the best example of how broken the defense is is in the training mode. If you do the individual test, the second one is using your teammate, and the idea is that you hold up the attacker using L2, and then use square to get your teammate to disposess the attacker.

I've been playing PES since PES 2, and am very good at sports video games. I managed to succeed in the 'bronze' challenge twice in twenty tries. An experienced, PES loving gamer who can only succeed in defending a 1 on 2 situation 10% of the time...that's not quite right Konami.

The defense is broken. It is incredibly unrealistic how easy it is for any CPU player to simply cut straight through upwards of 4 defenders. The only people disagreeing are simply ridiculous at the game already or seeing what they want to see.
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Day one I was doing as badly as you, but then I got gold in both defensive challenges on my 2nd try on the 2nd day..

Seriously, you need to learn how to defend. It sounds so much like you're expecting to just turn up and win from the off.
 
Some stuff about FL (ML/BAL) from Adam, and some stuff about keepers etc, don't think it's been posted here yet. He has the review code now btw.

Hey guys.

Sorry for the hit and run before lol

I'm currently engrossed in ML, and this kind of Soap Opera Konami have created. So many cut scenes, so many moments that fill in between games, it's all rather special. Can't wait to talk more soon.

A few thing I want to note, although I'm sure are aware, I'm being watched closely and don't want to mess anything up with Konami. So a few points.

I'm playing Professional. Not because I can't win games against Top Player, but because I have to accept it's there for people who want to out-game the game. I don't feel it's a level that scales well for people who don't like being shafted 24/7 :mrgreen:

Secondly, defending. Makes more sense. I found it ace in preview, and it's a learning curve, but it seems it makes more sense now. Sure, you'll still get destroyed by players, but defenders have a better reach, and when you're infront of the player when it makes more sense you win the ball - you will.

Finally passing. I'm playing full bar. Happy to say Konami have changed the levels to a degree, and it feels less automated. I still don't think no bar is fully manual, but the control you have over power and placement is far greater than in the demo.

I do want to talk keepers, but rest assured they are better than the demo. There aren't issues, but more design choices that I feel Konami need to tweak, perhaps something we all can feedback once we have the final demo. Think PES3 shooting, and how rockets would be a goal. Good idea, but maybe not for everyone.

Oh, last taster. R2 shooting = WE9/PES5 :))
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Guys!

I'm pissed off with Konami.

Wait, don't fret.

Reason? Football Life (ML/BAL)is quite possibly the best single player mode ever in a football games. Incredible, engrossing, time consuming, enjoyable, involving etc etc etc.

So why am I pissed? They haven't even talked about it yet in great deal. I'm blown away, I've never seen this sort of single player focus ever.

PES 2012's best kept secret, and one that could be a defining moment in the series.

So I'm going be a dick now and disappear. But when you hear about it in-depth, remember I warned you first. There are write-ups doing the rounds, but it doesn't do it justice.

Take this case in point. Started ML. Played 3 games (1 pre-season friendly). Been in the mode for 1hr 15mins...
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Jamezinho said:
So because defending is more difficult, and requires more thought and skill, it's broken?

:NO:
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It is not about defending, it is defending against the AI. AI players lock on the ball and go into Messi mode inside every group of players.
 
romagnoli said:
Day one I was doing as badly as you, but then I got gold in both defensive challenges on my 2nd try on the 2nd day..

Seriously, you need to learn how to defend. It sounds so much like you're expecting to just turn up and win from the off.
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Sounds like you guys know something we don't! I keep trying to cover and jockey with my defender but like nerf said it is a one man defense. The AI either finds another player who can catch my defenders off-guard or just keeps dribbling until he passes my defender with a slick move and a couple more extra defenders while he is at it! Sometimes I win the ball, yes, but I concede goals every game but I can't protect my area from eleven crazy Messi-like AI players!

I have actually recorded so many goals while playing with porto but in reality most of these goals didn't get rewarded by a win except in very few games.
 
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Had many more games with the demo now on PC with midlevel-settings. My near final impression:

The game has indeed become more arcade than PES 2011. The interview with Seabass from the netherland article posted up there is no mistranslation, Seabass went for the mixture between arcade and simulation to make it more fun to play.

And fun it is, but I don't like that Konami went more arcade, I wished Seabass went even more simulation than PES 2011, so much that playing a full 90-minute-match real time would be interesting and challenging.

But apparently he wanted to concentrate on the short "highlights"-like 10 minute-matches.

Many people play 10 minute matches so that decision is gonna make a lot of people happy.

How did he make it more arcade?

a) Control is extremely tight.
b) Response time is immediate.
c) Passing is precise even with zero bars.

Because of all this, the game is rather easy to play. At first it was difficult for me because to push the tackling-button was a major mistake, but once I let go of that button, it became easy, you just have to block passing/shooting-lanes and that's it... if you want to have the ball it's better to near the other player without using the tackle-button... for some extremely technical opponents containment might be useful...

Once you get the hang of it you can develop your own style and then it's easy.

By the way I mostly played on top-player and a bit on professional.

Like I said it's fun, the players feel much more alive than in PES 2011, there's some great feeling to it all reminiscent of the classics in the PS2-era, but there is this nagging feeling that it is too easy to play good football, there is too little room for error and it's all too tight and slick to feel real.

It took me about two days to adjust to the game, while it took me a whole month for PES 2011, the danger is there that this arcade-simulation-mix means that the game loses some of its depth.

The second demo that will be a much more progressed code will bring the final answer in which direction Konami wants to go with PES 2012, hopefully it's more challenging and more realistic.

P.S.: The goalkeepers are actually in some aspects better than in PES 2011, they made some saves they would never have done before... but on the whole they are awful because some easy shots get parried or let in.
 
YoungGun_UK said:
I thought it was brilliant, first attempt on the "training" I pressed "X" he skipped past me like I wasn't their. Pressed redo and this time contained but eventually lost out, 3rd time contained, waited for the chance to tackle and vola!
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Jokerclapping.gif
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Although I've been having 20 hours of love/hate with the demo, the last couple of games I played were incredible. Those two games were also the first time I'd played it on 2 player. I played my son who has become a right little pressure whore since he started playing Fifa Online against all his mates from school. The game felt so different compared to playing the CPU, and miles better for it. The pressuring didnt work at all against me, and I was very rarely made to feel uncomfortable by it, rather than being suffocated like in PES 11. I could simply pass it about, looking for the option until I had dragged his players completely out of position, then a nice threaded pass played me in. Fantastic. Strangely, the -1 Speed setting felt perfect as well.
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Yea I found the same thing Jimmy. My bro was over on Wednesday and we gave it a god bash, very different game where space was difficult to comeby, but when used correctly very dangerous situations can arise.

But still my major gripe is passes going to the wrong player and too slowly which means even the wrong player tracks back automatically to pick it up, which in turn breaks down your attacking move altogether, and you need to start again.

shits me that bug.
 
henrys hand said:
Had many more games with the demo now on PC with midlevel-settings. My near final impression:

The game has indeed become more arcade than PES 2011. The interview with Seabass from the netherland article posted up there is no mistranslation, Seabass went for the mixture between arcade and simulation to make it more fun to play.

And fun it is, but I don't like that Konami went more arcade, I wished Seabass went even more simulation than PES 2011, so much that playing a full 90-minute-match real time would be interesting and challenging.
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I don't think there is a button called "+arcade" and another called "+simulation" in their development kit. They just implement what they can and what they see fit.
 
Hmmm. So because the response times have been improved and the controls are tight, it makes the game arcade-like?

WOW. I respect peoples opinions but sometimes they voice some incredibly stupid points. I hope to God Konami don't listen to people like yourself and others or we will end up with a broken game full of sluggish movement and over pressured defence systems.
 
Adam already said that the defending system is more balanced, players can keep a better distance for tackles when holdinh r2 + x. That's what i read i think... can't confirm is 100% right (maybe 90% lol).

But sriously, i dispossed pato and ibra many times after some games, and it feels so great that i wanted to record a video everytime i managed to do that.
 
BillyBoy said:
Hmmm. So because the response times have been improved and the controls are tight, it makes the game arcade-like?

WOW. I respect peoples opinions but sometimes they voice some incredibly stupid points. I hope to God Konami don't listen to people like yourself and others or we will end up with a broken game full of sluggish movement and over pressured defence systems.
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Exaclly. I really think that some players really need to have less agility when dribbling and less close and tight touchs, but i don't agree that it must be like pes 2011.

In pes 2011 there are many players that makes you relly doubt if they are professional footbllers. One of my example was Luizão, a defender who was in brazil squad for many years for God's sake, and i couldn't hold the ball with him for more than 2 seconds, so ridiculously sllugish that i always had to clear the ball whenever he touchs it and my opponent started sprinting towards him. In real life, defenders don't have that dificult to deal with attacing pressure, they can simply make a good turn to keep pressure away and then pass to a teamate. That doesn't necessarily make them good dribblers.
 
I'm still yet to play PES 2012, but I'm liking the sound of most of what I'm hearing.

Especially that the CPU is a nightmare to defend against - I'd love to have to be on my toes for the whole match and know that mistakes will be punished.
In PES 2011, mindless pressure would be the most effective method against the CPU that was simply unable to exploit space or dribble dangerously - they hardly scored a goal...

I agree with others that even players who aren't very technically gifted would be able to glide past you with ease if you just throw yourself into tackles or don't choose the right moment.
Sounds like they could do with taking more bad touches every so often though.

As I said though, I'm still yet to play PES 2012 so can't make any judgements.
 
DuduBR9 said:
Exaclly. I really think that some players really need to have less agility when dribbling and less close and tight touchs, but i don't agree that it must be like pes 2011.

In pes 2011 there are many players that makes you relly doubt if they are professional footbllers. One of my example was Luizão, a defender who was in brazil squad for many years for God's sake, and i couldn't hold the ball with him for more than 2 seconds, so ridiculously sllugish that i always had to clear the ball whenever he touchs it and my opponent started sprinting towards him. In real life, defenders don't have that dificult to deal with attacing pressure, they can simply make a good turn to keep pressure away and then pass to a teamate. That doesn't necessarily make them good dribblers.
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The thing is PES 2011 is the one extreme, PES 2012 is the other extreme where everything just works perfectly for everyone on the pitch, I mean look at real football.. with the exception of Barcelona most teams find it difficult to pass the ball around at will, control the ball perfectly, turn quick and swift and always have at least two passing-options... but that's how it seems to be like in the demo for every team... what's missing is the thrill and danger to make something wrong that most teams have to deal with.
 
'Finally passing. I'm playing full bar. Happy to say Konami have changed the levels to a degree, and it feels less automated. I still don't think no bar is fully manual, but the control you have over power and placement is far greater than in the demo.'

So does that mean that passing is easier or there's just more control over putting it to the left or right of a player?
 
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Northzzz said:
The way Adam writes offends me, well the second part. The first part was surprisingly more informative than usual.

'Finally passing. I'm playing full bar. Happy to say Konami have changed the levels to a degree, and it feels less automated. I still don't think no bar is fully manual, but the control you have over power and placement is far greater than in the demo.'

So does that mean that passing is easier or there's just more control over putting it to the left or right of a player?
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What I make of it is that it is more manual ( so more difficult ) , so that you can send it more in the direction YOU want and not what the CPU wants.
 
This information was obtained from the PES 2012 PC demo.
Credit to:

www.pesoccerworld.com

EUROPA

(Same as PES2011)

AFRICA

(Same as PES2011)

AMERICA

*Canada
*Costa Rica
*Honduras
*Mexico
*Panama (New team, replaces Trinidad and Tobago)
*USA
*Argentina
*Bolivia
*Brasil
*Chile
*Colombia
*Ecuador
*Paraguay
*Peru
*Uruguay
*Venezuela

ASIA

*Australia
*Bahréin
*China
*Iran
*Japon
*Jordania (New team, replaces Oman)
*Kuwait
*North Korea
*Qatar
*Arabia Saudita
*South Korea
*Siria
*Thailand
*Emiratos Arabes
*Uzbekistan
*New Zealand


CLASSIC TEAMS

(Same as PES2011)




LIGA BBVA (League licensed + All teams licensed)

*Athletic Club
*Club Atlético de Madrid
*FC Barcelona
*RCD Espanyol
*Getafe CF
*Granada CF
*Levante UD
*RCD Mallorca
*Málaga CF
*CA Osasuna
*Real Racing Club
*Rayo Vallecano
*Real Betis Balompié
*Real Madrid CF
*Real Sociedad de Fútbol
*Real Zaragoza
*Sevilla FC
*Real Sporting de Gijón
*Valencia CF
*Villarreal CF

English League

*Arsenal
*Aston Villa
*Blackburn Rovers
*Bolton Wanderers
*Chelsea
*Everton
*Fulham
*Liverpool
*Manchester City
*Manchester United (Licensed)
*Newcastle
*Norwich City
*Queens Park Rangers
*Stoke City
*Sunderland
*Swansea City
*Tottenham Hotspur (Licensed)
*West Bromwich Albion
*Wigan Athletic
*Wolverhampton Wanderers

LIGUE 1 (League licensed + All teams licensed)

*AC Ajaccio
*AJ Auxerre
*FC Girondins de Bordeaux
*Stade Brestois 29
*SM Caen
*Dijon
*Évian Thonon Gaillard FC
*LOSC Lille Métropole
*FC Lorient
*Olympique Lyonnais
*Olympique de Marseille
*Montpellier Hérault SC
*AS Nancy-Lorraine
*OGC Nice
*Paris Saint-Germain FC
*Stade Rennais FC
*FC Sochaux-Montbéliard
*AS Saint-Étienne
*Toulouse FC
*Valenciennes FC

Italian League (All teams licensed)

*Atalanta BC
*Bologna FC
*Cagliari Calcio
*Calcio Catania
*AC Cesena
*AC Chievo Verona
*ACF Fiorentina
*Genoa CFC
*FC Internazionale Milano
*Juventus
*S.S. Lazio
*US Lecce
*A.C. Milan
*SSC Napoli
*Novara Calcio
*USC Palermo
*Parma FC
*AS Roma
*AC Siena
*Udinese Calcio

EREDIVISE (League licensed + All teams licensed)

*ADO Den Haag
*AZ Alkmaar
*AFC Ajax
*De Graafschap
*SBV Excelsior
*FC Groningen
*FC Twente
*FC Utrecht
*Feyenoord
*SC Heerenveen
*Heracles Almelo
*NAC Breda
*NEC Nijmegen
*PSV Eindhoven
*RKC Waalwijk
*Roda JC
*VVV-Venlo
*Vitesse

Portuguese League

*Académica
*Beira-Mar
*Benfica (Licensed)
*Braga
*CD Feirense
*Gil Vicente
*UD Leiria
*Marítimo
*Nacional
*Paços Ferreira
*FC Porto (Licensed)
*Rio Ave
*Sporting de Portugal (Licensed)
*SC Olhanense
*Vitória Guimarães
*Vitória Setúbal

Other European teams (29 teams)

*KRC Genk
*Standard Liège
*Dinamo Zagreb
*AC Sparta Praga
*FC Copenhague
*HJK Helsinki
*Bayer 04 Leverkusen
*F.C. Bayern München
*AEK Atenas
*Olympiacos FC
*Panathinaikos FC
*PAOK F.C.
*Rosenborg BK
*Wisła Kraków
*FC Oțelul Galați
*CSKA Moscú
*FC Rubín Kazán
*Zenit San Petersburgo
*Celtic FC
*Rangers FC
*AIK
*FC Basel
*FC Zürich
*Beşiktaş
*Fenerbahçe
*Galatasaray
*Trabzonspor
*Shajtar Donetsk
*Dynamo de Kyiv

Other American teams (2 teams)

*Boca Juniors
*River Plate
 
i'm loving the look of the ai, finally more lethal and punishing, makes it refreshing, only for the demo to drop on xbox so i can test this badboy out
 
AlaaEG said:
Right moment? There is no right moment. I'll let robinho express my feelings! :RANT:
YouTube - PES 2012 super AI robinho
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The first bit when he goes through the two players, were you by any chance holding the two pressure buttons? I've dreamed to be able to do that in a football game for a while, and right there I thought it looked gorgeous.

Then the step overs/body feint, just looked great imo... I'm not sure what you're expecting your defense to do in that situation? One of your players sticks a foot in and Robinho skins him, I don't see the problem? lol, I guess all those defenders in real life must hate Messi and his super AI.

The only problem I see is that he shoots a little too quick for my liking, another touch would have looked better.

and it was ROBINHO, not exactly the worst dribbler...
 
henrys hand said:
The thing is PES 2011 is the one extreme, PES 2012 is the other extreme where everything just works perfectly for everyone on the pitch, I mean look at real football.. with the exception of Barcelona most teams find it difficult to pass the ball around at will, control the ball perfectly, turn quick and swift and always have at least two passing-options... but that's how it seems to be like in the demo for every team... what's missing is the thrill and danger to make something wrong that most teams have to deal with.
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Spot on, and great demonstration of the robinho vid illustrating the issue. I just find it kinda frustrating that legit opinions are too easily shot down by other posters. It's all too easy to just laugh it off and assume others are pressure whores by default and mindlessly bash the x button.

I'm not saying the defending is broken, and I've noticed certain players (especially Van Bommel) have much higher odds of stabbing the ball away. I think it's kinda neat in that sense, however most of the time, you just feel at the mercy of the attack. I'm starting to appreciate the system, but it seems that you're FORCED into only ONE certain way of defending (containment)which is rather one dimensional.
 
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