PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

It's just amazing to see people saying "don't judge until you play the final game."

Well, as far as we know, none of the impressions posted on the net thus far are based on the final code. So if these people are telling everyone to not make judgment on a video of the most updated publicly playable version of PES2012 provided by Konami for the press at large to cover, what grounds is there for anyone to believe any of the impressions thus far? Are they forgetting the fact they made judgment on the game even though it is unfinished and may not represent the final game? Look at what happened with the PES2011 demo.

Who cares if people have positive or negative opinions based on the video, but it doesn't make sense to discredit the observations that are made from the gamescom videos when whatever version those people played before gamescom are also versions that do not represent the final game.

Why are the only opinions that count, are the ones based on unfinished code that are not shown to the public?
 
anyone read this?

@mrbamber
Mark Bamber
Tried to recreate everyone running forward and saw no problems, all as it should be

yes, it seems you read that, make of it what you want
i just think you are making a big big problem about something that isn't a problem, at all, other than visual.
Goalkeepers are the real problem.
I guess it's time to leave these boards right now. It's more than one day you are talking about something that probably will never make to the final code.
Just move on
 
Last edited:
Expander said:
Im not patronising anyone,im just a great believer in seeing the whole picture not edited segments of a match that give you know idea of how a product plays out in real time during a match from begining to end.

Its jumping to conclusions and formulating ideas based on what?.The proofs always in the eating.:))
Click to expand...

I guess, most people (including me) that raise concern about this "run after pass" stuff are merely discussing what we have been shown by this particular gamescom build. Also, no one seems try to judge that this case is what will present in demo or even final code.

For every one that think this "run after pass (mostly ground)" is okay, there is nothing wrong with it. Let me show you one good example.

MU (human) vs Milan (cpu)

YouTube - prorevo PES 2012 GamesCom Video #4

1st. The human player reported that he spams R2 button, but
2nd. later he said that "it" happens every time X is pressed (pass is made) in xbox 360 as well as PS3 without any further explanation on this.
3rd. Really spamming R2 from start to finish ?
4th. Look at very start of second half (at 6:55), are you sure this straight pass-run pass-run by cpu ai even if their not being "underpressured" something you want to see or think okay ? If you say, yes then of course we are in different boats of looking at this. Well, i mean this pattern :
a. Robinho pass to Van bommel then directly robinho sprints forward
b. Van Bommel to a CB then directly Van Bommel sprints forward
c. CB to Zambrotta then directly Van Bommel sprints forward
d. Zambrotta to Ronaldo then directly Zambrotta sprints forward

Or do you call this spesific pattern as good ai that you want to see ?

Feeling the game itself and looking at a player model move from one place to another by looking at a video is different stuff which the latter is so obvious.

Really, not pointing at you Ex, but i am afraid some people will think superb cpu ai means the cpu ai aggresively attack/bomb forward.. :TTTH:
 
Last edited:
Thespeedster84 said:
I guess, most people (including me) that raise concern about this "run after pass" stuff are merely discussing what we have been shown by this particular gamescom build. Also, no one seems try to judge that this case is what will present in demo or even final code.

For every one that think this "run after pass (mostly ground)" is okay, there is nothing wrong with it. Let me show you one good example.

MU (human) vs Milan (cpu)

YouTube - prorevo PES 2012 GamesCom Video #4

1st. The human player reported that he spams R2 button, but
2nd. later he said that "it" happens every time X is pressed (pass is made) in xbox 360 as well as PS3 without any further explanation on this.
3rd. Really spamming R2 from start to finish ?
4th. Look at very start of second half (at 6:55), are you sure this straight pass-run pass-run by cpu ai even if their not being "underpressured" something you want to see or think okay ? If you say, yes then of course we are in different boats of looking at this. Well, i mean this pattern :
a. Robinho pass to Van bommel then directly robinho sprints forward
b. Van Bommel to a CB then directly Van Bommel sprints forward
c. CB to Zambrotta then directly Van Bommel sprints forward
d. Zambrotta to Ronaldo then directly Zambrotta sprints forward

Or do you call this spesific pattern as good ai that you want to see ?

Really, not pointing at you Ex, but i am afraid some people will think superb cpu ai means the cpu ai aggresively attack/bomb forward.. :TTTH:
Click to expand...
Isn't the fact however, that we could have a potentially lethal A.I even after we master the game something to be excited about? That to me, is good A.I. Let's be honest, in PES 11 the CPU could barely build up anything or get close to your box unless it did a lucky thorough pass or after a defensive blunder.

And lets not forget that none of the runs result in a goal against the CPU.
 
Gab_ said:
For your own team yes. Do you really think that was my question? Really?

Every CPU controlled team does the same thing in the videos from gamescom. You can not control the CPU team. Right? Herro?
Click to expand...

My bad,i didnt read the question properly.

indeed they do gab,by which i mean there looking to advance the play not just rush blindly forward leaving holes.If you opened your eyes a little more you would also see that the zonal defending and player awareness is so good that any holes left by advancing players is filled or the said player rushing forward quickly moves back.Its beautifally balanced and doesnt impact or break the game,its the way the ai has been built to provide a more flowing and organic representation of football.

Ive not seen one example of where this has been easily exploited or demonstrated to be a weakness within the game.
 
Mr man: But Adam, Rod and Rom reported back that the CPU was really hard to play against, and that was not this broken mess of code. The real AI that Seabass has been tooting his horn about is really good, and that is the AI we want in the final version. This run and gun AI can easily be mastered once you actually knows it will always do the runs.

Expander: Doesn't matter if someone over at Gamescom has exploited it yet or not, or if the AI covers up for the stupid runs. They should not be there to begin with. Do you think the AI with the constant runs are better than the AI in the trailers and leaked videos?
 
Last edited:
Ameppe said:
anyone read this?

@mrbamber
Mark Bamber
Tried to recreate everyone running forward and saw no problems, all as it should be

yes, it seems you read that, make of it what you want
i just think you are making a big big problem about something that isn't a problem, at all, other than visual.
Goalkeepers are the real problem.
I guess it's time to leave these boards right now. It's more than one day you are talking about something that probably will never make to the final code.
Just move on
Click to expand...

Just before you leave mate, personally visual (if you want to relate to this discussion) defines how a player model animated e.g passing, running, animation.

And frankly speaking it is not about visual at all. It is about why most of the time, even CB, even when not being underpressured MUST sprint forward for few meters directly after making ground passes. If you think it is okay and realistic then fine, it is your opinion.
 
Exactly, if you know that the defender will atumatically run forward when he passes, then over time you can easily expoloit it. Just because in the videos of late they are not doesn't mean much.

Whatever way you look at it, even if it is not resulting in it being exploited at the moment. All players shouldn't be made to run forward every time they pass. Especially with PES when everybody is looking for as much as a sim like experience as possible and it is delivering on this, to excuse this after saying how good PES is tactically etc is just hypocritical imo.
 
It will be interesting to see what all the deniers say, when the full release is out, and this forward sprinting isn't there. Will you be disappointed that the glitch has been fixed? Will you beg Seabass to insert the automatic pass-and-go again?
 
Expander said:
My bad,i didnt read the question properly.

indeed they do gab,by which i mean there looking to advance the play not just rush blindly forward leaving holes.If you opened your eyes a little more you would also see that the zonal defending and player awareness is so good that any holes left by advancing players is filled or the said player rushing forward quickly moves back.Its beautifally balanced and doesnt impact or break the game,its the way the ai has been built to provide a more flowing and organic representation of football.

Ive not seen one example of where this has been easily exploited or demonstrated to be a weakness within the game.
Click to expand...

It might eventually happen after a few weeks/months of play.No game is perfect and every game reveals its exploits.The fewer visible at first, the better
 
Expander's posts just get more and more baffling and unfounded.

Please, for your own sake mate, stop. You're not proving anything to us and you are making yourself seem a bit dim.

I'm optimistic when it comes to PES 2012, and confident that that run trigger issue will be fixed come release, but at the moment in time, it is a problem. It's not clever AI, it's not the AI playing in an attacking style, it's just mindless forward running... How can you not see that?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gab_ said:
Mr man: But Adam, Rod and Rom reported back that the CPU was really hard to play against, and that was not this broken mess of code. The real AI that Seabass has been tooting his horn about is really good, and that is the AI we want in the final version. This run and gun AI can easily be mastered once you actually knows it will always do the runs.

Expander: Doesn't matter if someone over at Gamescom has exploited it yet or not, or if the AI covers up for the stupid runs. They should not be there to begin with. Do you think the AI with the constant runs are better than the AI in the trailers and leaked videos?
Click to expand...

I think the AIs always been like this,its just been ramped up or the team styles for gamescom have been set to all out attack and CB overlap to demonstrate how aggressive and attacking the cpu ai can be.

Im not worried because its all tweakable and i have faith in konami,pes2011s tactical setup isnt to different then pes2012 so im sure this inclination to move forward after every pass can be adjusted to suit the users preference of playing.
 
Expander said:
I think the AIs always been like this,its just been ramped up or the team styles for gamescom have been set to all out attack and CB overlap to demonstrate how aggressive and attacking the cpu ai can be.

Im not worried because its all tweakable and i have faith in konami,pes2011s tactical setup isnt to different then pes2012 so im sure this inclination to move forward after every pass can be adjusted to suit the users preference of playing.
Click to expand...

What about the CPU teams and the chances of them having their players always run forward after a pass ?
 
Expander said:
I think the AIs always been like this,its just been ramped up or the team styles for gamescom have been set to all out attack and CB overlap to demonstrate how aggressive and attacking the cpu ai can be.

Im not worried because its all tweakable and i have faith in konami,pes2011s tactical setup isnt to different then pes2012 so im sure this inclination to move forward after every pass can be adjusted to suit the users preference of playing.
Click to expand...
Well, all of your argument until now has been based on "faith to konami", actually there's no piece of evidence to back it up. C'mon, have you got any evidence that AI in Gamescom code is set to all out attack even in the kickoff ?
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Hey look, my girlfriend is a stunning 25 year old Beautician, and even she doesnt put a smile consistently on my face the way Seabass has/does. No-one has ever given so much enjoyment over a prolonged period. And all for less than a decent bag of sniff. Yep, I love him. :)
Click to expand...

By that estimation PES is better than the longest orgasm you've ever had.
 
For the record, I suspect this will be fixed or has been fixed in the improved code / final version.

But the whole point of bringing it up is to make sure the game is as good as it can be, having faith has got nothing to do with it and waiting till it's released and hoping for the best doesn't make sense either.

This kind of attitude has always been a problem with the PES community, and it's probably partially responsible for the game taking this long on the current generation of consoles to become what it should of been.

Itching to get my hands on the demo anyway, still pondering whether to get it for the Xbox or PS3 this year, last year I went with the Xbox, but the lack of a really decent option file is an annoyance (Due to the limitations). But I just can't imagine playing too long on the PS3 with that tiny little controller.
 
Last edited:
As ever at this time of year certain people get a little over emotive.
No names,but just to ensure this thread is properly focussed.
Make sure this debate does not get personal folks.
 
i'm pretty sure all we wanted was just a confirmation that this behavior is in the final code from Jon Murphy. It's all I posted.
 
Expander said:
Whats there to prove,quash a load of childish hysteria based on what?or having the balls to question the status quo on here without fear of alienation or being part of your click rob.

Dude,stop the dim shit,ive been kicking around this industry long enough to know what im talking about and the power of the internet.

This whole episode has got a funny EA smell to it.
Click to expand...

This line here is just ridiculous!

Gab and Rob I know for sure hate Fifa (maybe hate is a strong word) but they prefer PES much more and think the game is going to be very good. They criticise Fifa heavily.

This is what I was talking about before, some people in this thread take things personally and any criticism levelled at PES means that whoever is doing the critisising is a Fifa Fan boy. Which is just really silly.

If you can't see how many people are calling this 'run bug' out now, then there is no reasoning at all. Even a guy that has tried the Gamescon version has said that this is a big problem (mentioned earlier).
 
This whole episode has got a funny EA smell to it.
Click to expand...

tinfoil_hat.jpg
 
It is fun isn't it. Whoever likened it to a soap opera earlier was correct. In latest developments it has been uncovered that EA have faked a load of PES videos and planted a number of covert agents on PES forums to stir up shit. Tune in tomorrow to see if EA will get away with this outrageous behaviour.
 
I like the critical analysis this year. its clutching a straws. looking for little things then blowing them out of proportion,blind to the quality on show.

for the last 4 years (not last year) MAJORITY of people have been tearing the game to pieces at this stage "look at how fuckin shite it is" "if Hitler made a game this would be it" etc.. and they were right but they were going over the top. as these people do.

so when PES looks as good as it does this year, and people who have played it are saying its a great game and the usual haters can find only subtle problems???

that means its gonna be a great game. (and I remember the slagging off of PES 5 before release - this has that type of feel)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom