PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

I guess but i would envisage there's a small margin between making something nicely responsive and something overly responsive like FIFA.
 
Northzzz said:
I guess but i would envisage there's a small margin between making something nicely responsive and something overly responsive like FIFA.
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Responsive in the realms of what a player should be humanly capable of performing dependent on their stats.
 
lucagian said:
IYO, What Else Could There Be?
For Me: 1.Gameplay 2.Game Modes 3. Graphics..
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I'm talking about snow, muddy jerseys, wavey shirts and all that crap. The least of anyone's concerns I should hope.

Gameplay can be broken into 1000 pieces, there are hundreds within that sub category that could do with some attention, wavy shirts is the last thing the good people at Konami should be concentrating on.
 
If they fix a few really annoying things then I would really look forward to 2012.

First touch of most players is ridiculous, if you leave them to have a touch you then have to wait till they've (usually poorly) controlled the ball before you can do anything else, usually resulting in losing possession. Also players inability to control a bouncing ball with any sort of grace is infuriating.

Fouls... absolutely shocking in 2011. Any sort of slide tackle from the side results in a foul, even if you clearly win the ball and it's more of a block tackle than an actual sliding challenge.
Also the amount of free kicks given for little stumbles after things like clearances or headers (on landing) is shocking, even due to players that weren't involved in the actual incident. I'm not sure how they weren't spotted and rectified before release.
 
Musy said:
For those who watched the video. Did you notice SEABASS mention responding to requests for improving 'hold up play' in defensive situations where defender may be OUTNUMBERED so stand off attackers

Seabass has ignored the balance to this - where an OUTNUMBERED target man will HOLD UP THE BALL until support comes.

The mechanic for this needs to be improved! Currently, when player is in possession of ball letting go of all buttons, randomly allows the Ai to shield off defenders. Where's the freedom in this Seabass? Give us a user input (L3) and give us control over shielding the space around the ball
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This. In FIFA you can hold the Dash/Sprint button to 'hold up' play with a striker, shielding the ball. That's a tactic a lot of big target men like Drogba, Torres, Ibrahimovic, Luca Toni do frequently and would be great to do in PES too.
 
danyjr said:
This. In FIFA you can hold the Dash/Sprint button to 'hold up' play with a striker, shielding the ball. That's a tactic a lot of big target men like Drogba, Torres, Ibrahimovic, Luca Toni do frequently and would be great to do in PES too.
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Used to be like that too on PES.
 
It's still there, i use it a lot

just the collisions aren't very good so it dosen't work smoothy as it could do!
 
Just seen the video and, well, one bit of info that just made me sit back and sigh was the promise of more physical challenges. FFS. This WILL result in top difficulty levels overpowering physical challenges even more than in PES2011. It's miles worse in FIFA, and made me go back to PES for a bit of respite from that. So to see it announced that the AI will now be able to bully you off the ball is 'great'.......

Oh, and their gameplay plans don't make much sense. In one sentence they brag about how supporting team mates will make better off the ball runs, dragging defenders out of position, then the next they're bragging about how defences are improving so as to be able to pick up defenders and cover space, nullifying the improvements in attack? Sounds like by improving both at the same time, we'll just be left with the same options as in this years game.

As for the footage, I hope that was really early footage because it barely looks any different to 2011. Maybe slightly more fluid, maybe, but I still saw at least three occasions where the ball left a player's foot at a bizarre angle, or the ball being kicked with absolutely no back lift whatsoever. Which is awful.

But, we've not seen the game properly, I'm just being a cynical and miserable shit because I've seen all this stuff for years now :)
 
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LTFC said:
Just seen the video and, well, one bit of info that just made me sit back and sigh was the promise of more physical challenges. FFS. This WILL result in top difficulty levels overpowering physical challenges even more than in PES2011. It's miles worse in FIFA, and made me go back to PES for a bit of respite from that. So to see it announced that the AI will now be able to bully you off the ball is 'great'.......

Oh, and their gameplay plans don't make much sense. In one sentence they brag about how supporting team mates will make better off the ball runs, dragging defenders out of position, then the next they're bragging about how defences are improving so as to be able to pick up defenders and cover space, nullifying the improvements in attack? Sounds like by improving both at the same time, we'll just be left with the same options as in this years game.

As for the footage, I hope that was really early footage because it barely looks any different to 2011. Maybe slightly more fluid, maybe, but I still saw at least three occasions where the ball left a player's foot at a bizarre angle, or the ball being kicked with absolutely no back lift whatsoever. Which is awful.

But, we've not seen the game properly, I'm just being a cynical and miserable shit because I've seen all this stuff for years now :)
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This is how both defense and attack work in reality. As a defender your job outside the box is to narrow the angles of attack and nullify opposition runs into space. Attackers routinely use dummy runs to create more space and time for midfielders to work. This is why defensive positioning is arguably the most important skill a defender can have.

If they stick to their guns and implement it right, this new system will decrease through-ball abuse and encourage more methodical play (especially in the midfield).
 
LTFC i see no problem with that whatsoever, if the attackers are making overlaping runs, it's the defenders job to adjust and follow the runs while constricting space.

Thats's football 101.
 
spyros17ronaldo said:
polaki σε πηραν χαμπαρι και εδω???χαχαχα
παιξε fifa και μη ξαναμπεις σε σαιτ για προ...αμπαλε!
polakis- known as a fifa fan-boy!!!!!!!!
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polakis said:
Ρε τραγικές τυπε μιλάς σε εμενα που εχω παρει δεκάδες πρωταθλήματα εθνικά στο προ εδω και 10 χρονια? σε εμενα που ξεκίνησα το wehellas?

Άμπαλε! Οταν ξυπνήσεις και δεις την χαώδης διάφορα προ-φιφα έλα πες μου. Που θα με πεις και fan boy...
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Ok. Lets all get one thing clear. Discuss, debate and argue all you want, but you'll see an infraction coming your way if:

1. You use the "Fan boy" word.
2. You start flaming.

We are all mature people in here, or so I'd like to believe.

And please, keep it in English.

And Polakis, no one cares about you're bragging. Keep that stuff between you two.

Back on topic now, hombres.
 
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LTFC - the attacker might run out wide and his defender will cover him. But those two players are now out of the way - this is the space created. So neither that forward or that defender are in the way for the guy dribbling with the ball, or for another forward/midfielder to use that created space. So yes one forward and one defender cancel each other out but the space created is the winner :)
 
sincover said:
This is how both defense and attack work in reality. As a defender your job outside the box is to narrow the angles of attack and nullify opposition runs into space. Attackers routinely use dummy runs to create more space and time for midfielders to work. This is why defensive positioning is arguably the most important skill a defender can have.

If they stick to their guns and implement it right, this new system will decrease through-ball abuse and encourage more methodical play (especially in the midfield).
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Exactly. It's called 'using him by not using him'. I use this alot in PES 2011 by triggering my own runs, the defender than tracks that run and it opens up space to find a different option.
 
Something I'd like to see added is "mental fatigue", LFC's point was that the defenders would follow each attacker all over the pitch which could happen but in reality the reason why Barcelona/Arsenal or teams that constantly probe with lots of possession finally break through as its MUCH MUCH harder to constantly defend without having a mistake in their now and then, this needs to be configured into the game and its the main reason possession play is rewarded, if I have the ball constantly the opposition should get knackered which I don't think currently happens in PES. (or FIFA)
 
Hi, I see a lot of critics to PES11 (PES in general) that come from the ignorance. I mean, a lot of things that are asked for 2012 are already in the game, the thing is they're not obvius, not 'pick and play like a master'. For instance, the holding up play with strikers: come on, have you ever heard about 'super cancel'?

By now, for what we all have seen, these look like good times for PES lovers: Seabass has talk about his goals with the game, and I love this; because lats year's 'we will listen to the fans' was scaring, it sounded like if they had no idea how to make the game. But now, they had a clear idea, and I've always like Konami's ideas in sports games.
 
I completely see what Konami are trying to say, but being grumpy, I was assuming what problems will come with these added features. I think player dummy runs have the potential to be great, but will the game freak out like it did in 11 on occasions and result in players dummy running at the worst possible times? I don't fully trust Konami to implement this and not result in occasions where you pass to a player through on goal and he randomly runs away from the ball etc. Hope I'm wrong!

As for defence/attack levels, yeah I see how it should allow space to be created, but if defensive cover is made too strict, and physical challenges too outweighed in the game's favour, then you could see another kind of stand off where the same levels of space are available as in the game we have now. Hope the balance is right though, and rewards intelligent use of the ball.

It's all hinsight right now anyways, so I guess I'll stop being negative about early announcement. But I do still have 'teamvision' ringing in my ears!
 
YoungGun_UK said:
Something I'd like to see added is "mental fatigue", LFC's point was that the defenders would follow each attacker all over the pitch which could happen but in reality the reason why Barcelona/Arsenal or teams that constantly probe with lots of possession finally break through as its MUCH MUCH harder to constantly defend without having a mistake in their now and then, this needs to be configured into the game and its the main reason possession play is rewarded, if I have the ball constantly the opposition should get knackered which I don't think currently happens in PES. (or FIFA)
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This doesn't make any sense to me.
So all you have to do for win matches is keep possession?

Take last season' Inter for example. They were considered a defensive team, so if they had this "mental fatigue", they would not be able do beat Barcelona right?

My point is, you play possession football because it works for you, because you know how to score playing that way.
 
The most dissapointing things for me is that the game still moves as if its 'snapped to grid' and I dont see any momentum or inertia in the players movements.
 
Ern Dog said:
The most dissapointing things for me is that the game still moves as if its 'snapped to grid' and I dont see any momentum or inertia in the players movements.
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That argument no longer applies. Players aren't snapped to any grid and you can feel the inertia alright. This in PES 2011. The momentum problem may have been fixed, but we don't really have enough info about it to know.
 
geeg said:
Hi, I see a lot of critics to PES11 (PES in general) that come from the ignorance. I mean, a lot of things that are asked for 2012 are already in the game, the thing is they're not obvius, not 'pick and play like a master'. For instance, the holding up play with strikers: come on, have you ever heard about 'super cancel'?
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This is what i've been saying since October! Some are valid but some really are quite ignorant and expect everything to fall to them on a plate!
 
For on line purposes, fixing the ref amnd fixing the sliding tackle is pririty number 1. It is a slidefest and if u get good at it u can still the ball 90%.

Sliding tackle should be an art for the best defenders and if u miss yellow/red should be given in most cases.

It has been an issue ever since konami got on line, pes6 2v2 was almost unplayble on line because of it.
 
_anderson said:
That argument no longer applies. Players aren't snapped to any grid and you can feel the inertia alright. This in PES 2011. The momentum problem may have been fixed, but we don't really have enough info about it to know.
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It may not be the 8 way movement of old but there is still an angle being snapped to. Only certain players like Messi have a greater degree of movement, I remember Seabass talking about it. I dont like it, it makes the game clunky.

Thinking about it, you are right about inertia, I havnt played PES2011 since Christmas so my memory is a bit foggy.

I really hope they add in momentum. It is very counter intuitive for movement not having it, I hate releasing the sprint button when running at full pace only to have the player slow down immediately into a jog or stop. Also the ball when under control slows down in relation to the players speed, who can run flat out with the ball then instantly go into a jog and keep the ball at their feet? The ball would run off without you, things like this are key to bringing PES fully into THIS generation IMO. This is also why they need to implement analog sprinting, I would do away with the sprint button and have the movment all on the thumbstick like it is in 3rd person games where a small movement walks and pushing the stick all the way is run.
 
Ern Dog said:
It may not be the 8 way movement of old but there is still an angle being snapped to. Only certain players like Messi have a greater degree of movement, I remember Seabass talking about it. I dont like it, it makes the game clunky.

Thinking about it, you are right about inertia, I havnt played PES2011 since Christmas so my memory is a bit foggy.

I really hope they add in momentum. It is very counter intuitive for movement not having it, I hate releasing the sprint button when running at full pace only to have the player slow down immediately into a jog or stop. Also the ball when under control slows down in relation to the players speed, who can run flat out with the ball then instantly go into a jog and keep the ball at their feet? The ball would run off without you, things like this are key to bringing PES fully into THIS generation IMO. This is also why they need to implement analog sprinting, I would do away with the sprint button and have the movment all on the thumbstick like it is in 3rd person games where a small movement walks and pushing the stick all the way is run.
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Imo it's just about the way PES handles its 360º. If you do it right, you can move in any angle. But it's not like FIFA where players immediately react to any movement on the stick and the angle shifts are 100% accurate. That's not realistic imo. But down to people's opinion I guess.

About the momentum, I too hope it's fixed, miss it so much. There are indications on the press-release that this may have been fixed, and a couple of moments on the video too, but we haven't enough to be sure of such.
 
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