PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[Suuuuupertalk]

A lot of players, when fully tired, run on pure adrenaline and this would further introduce a greater need for a player to have a determination attribute so when they get tired they still have a desire to at least run in short bursts. Imagine a player like Rooney still going all out when tired, but a player like Berbatov not really doing so.

I really like that idea, that the determination stat could have a real difference when running on empty. Like you say, it makes you either play differently so as to not tire out players like Berbatov late in the game, or do so, but have to put up with him trudging around the pitch looking disinterested like he sometimes can. Of course you can't really simulate a player you control being 'disinterested', but you can create a similar effect by altering his key stats mid-match. If his runs off the ball all but cease, his control is poor and passing inaccurate, then you're some way towards having a frustrating player on your hands when the going gets tough. Similarly, workhorses, battling midfielders with good concentration, and similar types of players would be worth their weight in gold if you play at a fast tempo earlier in the match. It could add a real dynamic element to the way you play and who you play.

 

[DuduBR9]

If you already have control of a CB back to begin with then yeah, absolutely no problem at all to deal with. It's when the opponent breaks and frantically smashing L1 is so unbearable slow at selecting the optimum defender that they're a problem, since under AI control they just do not track or read runs what so ever.


Or whats even more frustrating is anticipating the pass, moving the player into the right path yet the ball still manages to glide past. IRL the defender would stick out a leg, but in PES there's a lot smaller range for the ball to 'connect'.

This.

From what i've seen of the pes 2012 announcement video on the tv at the background, the Ai already seems to be a lot more aware of the ball movement on the field in this early stage of development, and players reponsiveness look much improved, so this will be easy to fix, they just need to add new animations for interceptions attempts.

I played last night a couple of online matchs and i had fun most of the time. I lost some matchs and I win others, those matchs I lost were in MLO when playing with a crap team against teams with messi, and some of them i lost in a tight match.

BTW, my defending style is covering space. I use the R2 button a lot, and I only pressure when there's a clear way to win in fair situations, or when it's really needed (blocking a cross, for example). In some circunstances it is more rewarding defending like this (covering space and forcing the other to make a bad pass), but i think it's not rewardable as the noob double pressure (btw, i think they should try to find a balance or get rid of this, it sucks)

I understand the need of making online experience more "playable" for everyone, and that means it needs to have a lower learnning curve, that's fair. But some ai bugs, terrible cursor and lack of quick reactions in crucial times annoys me.

But even if they fix all problems in pes 2012, there's no doubt that the best online experience you can have will always be playing with friends who also like to play more realisticlly anf fair.

 

[kiev123]

Stamina is broken is PES 2011
It seems to go down based on the number of minutes played rather than energy exerted.

 

[kobayashi]

i hate those idiots who select night games on line.

lighting is utter crap at nite, it almost feel like playing a 2 dimensional game.

work on the lighting konami. thanks.

Stamina is broken is PES 2011
It seems to go down based on the number of minutes played rather than energy exerted.

Seems 'half' broken.

It's weird. sometimes I'm at 80 minutes and it makes sense that the players i've been running with the most and using the most are on reds while most others on green.

Depends on stats i dunno, there's something wrong with it! It needs to clarified and fixed!

 

[ALBICELESTE2010]

Nothing wrong with the graphics of 2011. Just need more animations particularly from the keepers ie real mocapping and a greater deal of fluidity in them.

However the crux of the game has to be improving the AI. It does look like this is the thrust of 2012 making each individual player behave more logically as one might see in a real game of football.

If they get that right or move closer towards that with a resultant increase in stochastic elements that occur in football matches ie a return to PES5/6 that would be a big selling point.

That is if they can market it properly.

And it appears European nets are in the game at last for all the net obsessives.

 

[Lami]

LTFC and Northzzz,

Great posts there. Agree with everything.

About the determination attribute, PES already has one in mentality.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Oh and did I mention curve or dip on shots - not just free kicks. I think I have already but Konami are you listening lol. I wish I could copy and paste the FIFA finesse shot into PES sometimes lol. Obviously stat dependent, but the ball curves darn it! haha

 

[Pere Ubu]

Seems 'half' broken.

It's weird. sometimes I'm at 80 minutes and it makes sense that the players i've been running with the most and using the most are on reds while most others on green.

Depends on stats i dunno, there's something wrong with it! It needs to clarified and fixed!

No, it's not half broken, it's fully broken.

Have a 5 minute game on the easiest difficulty level (so the other team don't tackle you), just give the ball to one player and make him sprint up and down the pitch, over and over again for the whole game, while everyone else stands still. Then look at the various players' stamina levels after 65 minutes.

The only thing it has to do with stats is that players with a higher stamina stat will tire more slowly. It's got nothing to do with how much you run, just how long you're on the pitch. It's crap.

 

[Lami]

Oh and did I mention curve or dip on shots - not just free kicks. I think I have already but Konami are you listening lol. I wish I could copy and paste the FIFA finesse shot into PES sometimes lol. Obviously stat dependent, but the ball curves darn it! haha

The only dip I've seen on shots for me is when I try the knuckle shot, or whatever its called. It's a beauty.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

The only dip I've seen on shots for me is when I try the knuckle shot, or whatever its called. It's a beauty.

Yeah I have done it in training a few times and it's great. But a placed shot should curve like a free kick sometimes. At the moment I've seen it maybe on 1 shot out of hundreds...thousands? lol

Also, the dip (or movement) should be based on the players stats and body/ball positions rather than just through the knuckleball.

p.s. do you press the button the 2nd time on contact or just before? I haven't been able to "knuckle" it down

 

[Lami]

Yeah I have done it in training a few times and it's great. But a placed shot should curve like a free kick sometimes. At the moment I've seen it maybe on 1 shot out of hundreds...thousands? lol

Also, the dip (or movement) should be based on the players stats and body/ball positions rather than just through the knuckleball.

p.s. do you press the button the 2nd time on contact or just before? I haven't been able to "knuckle" it down

Exactly on contact mate.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Thanks mate. I will try it again. I still think the sensitivity of the button press is random. FIFA seems to be a bit more predictable with theirs. Like my manual crosses seem to have less "freedom" than the assisted crosses and can go flying around with too much power. And shots rarely hit the ground before reaching the keeper.

 

[Lami]

Thanks mate. I will try it again. I still think the sensitivity of the button press is random. FIFA seems to be a bit more predictable with theirs. Like my manual crosses seem to have less "freedom" than the assisted crosses and can go flying around with too much power. And shots rarely hit the ground before reaching the keeper.

I know what you mean. Some of these shots you're talking about that are in Fifa, I wish they were in PES too, specially the bouncing ones.

 

[Wendetta]

I am having issues with the 3.61 update. when i go to the lobby the game freezes. happened 4 times in a row yesterday. Quick games worked fine though.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I agree about the bouncing shots in FIFA, and the way the ball behaves in general actually. I think one major overhaul that is needed is the ball physics, it feels at times like the ball is flat and it almost drags across the ground rather than roll, if that makes sense. I think if this is improved, there's certainly scope to have a much wider variety of shots and ball behaviour when it's approaching the goal.

But a placed shot should curve like a free kick sometimes. At the moment I've seen it maybe on 1 shot out of hundreds...thousands? lol

I find that doing a normal shot but holding R2 (PS3 version) before and during the whole shot process allows you to curl the ball a lot more. This shot is more accurate, and far more manageable than shooting without any kind of modifyer. I think this happens because you're actually in the slow dribble mode when shooting, so your body position is more balanced. But back to PES2012, I think the shooting button could be a lot less sensitive, it's kind of out of kilter with the sensitivity of the pass button, which throws me off a little at times.

 

[kobayashi]

No, it's not half broken, it's fully broken.

Have a 5 minute game on the easiest difficulty level (so the other team don't tackle you), just give the ball to one player and make him sprint up and down the pitch, over and over again for the whole game, while everyone else stands still. Then look at the various players' stamina levels after 65 minutes.

The only thing it has to do with stats is that players with a higher stamina stat will tire more slowly. It's got nothing to do with how much you run, just how long you're on the pitch. It's crap.

Yeah i know about that. Someone already proved that, i assumed it was fully broken but then on MLO i remember one gem where i was sprinting with Olic a lot more than the other players and he was the only player on a red.

Thats why i said it's half broken! We need some clarification. is it just broken and no matter how much you run they all get tired in a scripted way due to their stat or does running make any difference.

 

[jcvf90]

Either something is broken or it is not. There is no such thing as half broken. Things either work or they don't.

 

[kobayashi]

Either something is broken or it is not. There is no such thing as half broken. Things either work or they don't.

Like i said, i though it was completely broken in terms of that stamina dosen't go down in terms of how much you run. Which seems true, it's broken in that respect.

then i ad that issue where it seemed as if it was tracking my players runs and depleting the stamina accordingly.

hence why i said half broken! It needs clarifying because I'm unsure where it's at, but I'm 100% sure it needs work.

From what i can see they haven't balanced the stamina depletion effect well enough in relativity to the time length.

They should go back to the WE9 LE stamina settings, it was much better then!

 

[Lami]

I've just started my BAL again from scratch and created my player. Used my photo, but after extensive editing I still look off. Virtual me looks like Zidane with Maldini's hair...

I hope they do something about this for 2012. Make it easier to mask the skin color. Implement a "color picker" like Paint to pick your skin color from the photo and mask it to the rest of your face/body etc.

 

[bonyi]

No, it's not half broken, it's fully broken.

Have a 5 minute game on the easiest difficulty level (so the other team don't tackle you), just give the ball to one player and make him sprint up and down the pitch, over and over again for the whole game, while everyone else stands still. Then look at the various players' stamina levels after 65 minutes.

The only thing it has to do with stats is that players with a higher stamina stat will tire more slowly. It's got nothing to do with how much you run, just how long you're on the pitch. It's crap.

+1

Stamina depletion is only dependent on player form and stamina stat. It has nothing to do with how much you use your players.
Fully broken. You can set your team's pressure to max and run for every ball all game long, the stamina will decrease in the exactly same way, like you were playing a much more consolidated defending football.

Has to be addressed. One of the biggest flaws for me of PES 2011.

The other is the response time / input lag problem.
Sad.

Bring on Pes 12

 

[goalgerd]

id love to see new types of goals scored,whether it be individual dribbling skills like this goal

YouTube - Jorge Troiteiro ''New Messi'' score incredible goal ! (Burgos CF) 17-05-2011


or shots catching the keeper off his line like this one

YouTube - Lechia - Wisła 0:3. Michail Sivakov (Siwakow Сівакоў)

or the 1st one here
YouTube - Best long range soccer goals ever




or lobs like these that could be done in the older ps2 games

YouTube - Top 10 Lob Goals (New!!!)

id love to see a touch of finesse added to the shooting in pes 2012 so that players with the right technique,shot accuracy and curling technique could score these types of goals if the opportunity presented itself and players playing the game would be rewarded for the quick thinking necessary to score those type of goals

 

[zeemeister]

LTFC and Northzzz,

Great posts there. Agree with everything.

About the determination attribute, PES already has one in mentality.

QFT

I vaguely recall fatigue meaning something a few years ago. If a player was fatigued he would be detrimental to your team, whilst PES does this it is to a very small degree.

Also if a player was nursing asn injury he hobbled around with those god awful bandages wrapped around his thighs. In PES 2011 yellow injuries are eaningless as you do not see the result of it on the players performance.


The dynamic involved in just these two aspects would make PES so mych better/realistic.

Problem is someone out there is going to say "OMG Fuck you Seabass Messi can run for 90 minutes flat LOLZOR"
But konami should make it an on off option as I thought PES 2011 was going to be.

One cant help feeling that the realists are suffering because knobs want easy peasy pick up and play games. Is a damn pity.

 

[Musy]

Hi, I see a lot of critics to PES11 (PES in general) that come from the ignorance. I mean, a lot of things that are asked for 2012 are already in the game, the thing is they're not obvius, not 'pick and play like a master'. For instance, the holding up play with strikers: come on, have you ever heard about 'super cancel'?

If you're talking about using super cancel like that:
YouTube - SuperCancel Defending PES5

That is only off the ball 'barging' for defending, and I don't think it even works as effectively in pes 2011. I'm pretty sure you can't hold up play with strikers using super cancel when player is in control of the ball.

BTW, goalgerd your videos would be perfect for discussion in my Real football vs PES thread

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

I agree about the bouncing shots in FIFA, and the way the ball behaves in general actually. I think one major overhaul that is needed is the ball physics, it feels at times like the ball is flat and it almost drags across the ground rather than roll, if that makes sense. I think if this is improved, there's certainly scope to have a much wider variety of shots and ball behaviour when it's approaching the goal.



I find that doing a normal shot but holding R2 (PS3 version) before and during the whole shot process allows you to curl the ball a lot more. This shot is more accurate, and far more manageable than shooting without any kind of modifyer. I think this happens because you're actually in the slow dribble mode when shooting, so your body position is more balanced. But back to PES2012, I think the shooting button could be a lot less sensitive, it's kind of out of kilter with the sensitivity of the pass button, which throws me off a little at times.

Yeah well I think if PES is going to promote "freedom" then the power bar should fill up properly and a bit slower. It's way too easy to seemingly press the button as long as you did the time before, only to get two very different results. And I'm not talking about the impact of the player stats - just the result of how much the power bar fills up.

Can you post some videos of these R2 curlers? I have tried what you said and if I hold the button before I kick the ball the player does this shot where he wraps his foot across his body and seemingly around the ball but it either goes into the grandstand or barely reaches the keeper. I can't find any kind of middle ground where the ball has some curl to it and makes the keeper stretch for a save. I need proof haha

 

[Lami]

The other is the response time / input lag problem.
Sad.

Are you playing on -1 gamespeed by any chance? Because for some odd reason it hinders with response time. For that reason alone I'm back on 0, even though I prefer -1 overall.

 

[Northzzz]

An essential addition for the next game is a training mode or some form of tutorial. It's not that i, or people familiar with PES, need it that much but for those unfamiliar with PES of late, or even at all, this is something that would be a wise addition. I know people who gave up on PES 2011 because they had no idea how to play and i can see how it might not exactly be easy to get into the game with no experience.

Yeah i know there's a command list and a free training mode but this is a sports game and as such seems to have a pretty impatient audience from my experience. 'Well it's football it shouldn't be that hard' is the tone i generally find. Newcomers, which may include those who are coming from the much easier to grasp Fifa, probably won't have the patience for such a concept. It's not helpful for multiplayer games, which just ends up with me dictating how to play all the time and looking like a bit of an ass. If these people were just let free on a training mode of sorts i think it'd be a lot easier to understand the game, i could just say 'go on training mode and learn the basics'. In summation, it's not about knowing the right combinations, it's about understanding when and where you should be doing certain things.

 

[zeemeister]

So how long till we can expext some more news? I hate this long wait between snippets. Apparently Konami are prepping a pre E3 presentation, the whole company that is not just the WEPES team.

 

[Jamezinho]

So how long till we can expext some more news? I hate this long wait between snippets. Apparently Konami are prepping a pre E3 presentation, the whole company that is not just the WEPES team.

Next news at E3 (7-9 June).

 

[geeg]

If you're talking about using super cancel like that:
http://www.youtube.com

That is only off the ball 'barging' for defending, and I don't think it even works as effectively in pes 2011. I'm pretty sure you can't hold up play with strikers using super cancel when player is in control of the ball.

BTW, goalgerd your videos would be perfect for discussion in my Real football vs PES thread

Of course you can't make use of super cancel when player are in control of the ball. I meant that, with supercancel, you can make fake runs or hold up your player, with no taking posession of the ball, letting it roll, trying to fool the defense.

One thing I personally hate about PES2011 is when you make use of the manual pass, using the 360º (this is in one new direction, different from the old 16 ways), passing the ball where "the machine" doesn't expect it to go; even if you have a player where the ball is going, the game will not let you take control of him. It's like "well, you can pass the ball where you want but, who said you will be able to get it?". I really hope that in 2012 this would be fixed.

PD: sorry if the text above has any mistake, I'm not english (galician)

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

This ^^

It doesnt happen all the time, but when it does, it really annoys the hell outta me.

As for curling shots ? I seriously dont have any concerns here. I mean, what are people expecting exactly ? How much bend do you want to see on a strike ? I really hope we are not talking Roberto Carlos Le Tournai type bend on every shot ? Because thats just silly.

I have scored many, many goals that have had a very realistic degree of bend, but you need to get the relevant body posture for the strike. Alternatively, R2 with correct angle and posture will give you a very realistic curl. I do not see the problem here at all. If people want the automatic bend you got on the old PS2 PES titles, then you wont find it on this latest engine. It's far too realistic for that, far more technically astute with its theory and execution.

To bend a ball you need to either open up your body and use your instep to wrap it around the outside of the ball, or, use the Roberto Carlos method, and strike the outside of the ball with plenty of power and whip. You get a harder shot with the Carlos method, but alot less control. Either way, make sure the player your controlling has a high shot technique and the correct foot is in place and the posture and angles are relevant. Coming inside for example and trying the Carlos technique by using your favoured foot the 'wrong way', will be the best way to achieve this. When I say 'wrong way', if you cut in from the left wing with a left footed player, then the correct technique and posture would favour the shot with the right peg. If the player is more one-footed, he'll attempt to slice through the outside the the ball (right-side) with his left foot, this will provide aggressive whip and bend due to the nature of the striking technique. Riera has scored a couple of long-range strikes for me using this technique, and both shots had very noticable and relevant bend. Not stupid unrealistic bend, just right and realistic.

Your never going to be able to produce the type of bend from a shot whilst the ball is in open-play like you could from a dead-ball. The dead-ball gives you a stationary strike for which you can drastically square-up your approach whilst 'whipping' the instep, ala Beckham. In general open-play this is more difficult to produce the same type of pronounced leverage, mainly due to time and relevant execution restrictions. R2 is the closest you'll get to this, and maxed out R2's from just outside the box with the right posture, balance and angle will give you very close to this with the right player and subsequent technique. There are plenty of these goals in the videos I have already posted.