PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[drekkard]

Disagree. I love the slow turning defenders and players on a purple who have modest technique etc.. Remember it's not making their limbs moving slower at all. they just take more considered and safe touches when turning because their ball control isn't very good and they aren't as comfortable on the ball!

When a player has average or poor ball control. You won't see him attempt to turn sharply with the ball like you would expect from a gifted player.

As for unexpected bad touches, i said earlier i would love to see players take poor elephant touches while sprinting with the ball if you don't time pressing R1, I agree. I think Which sprinting in general with a crap technique player should present a chance of the player just screwing up and losing the ball. But for general dribbling with crap players, i think the current systems about right. I've actually a few times completely lost control of the ball when trying stupidly fancy turns with defenders. Don't happen often but the ball ain't stuck to their feet

I disagree with your disagreement! Yesterday I played in one of the sunday leagues I'm on (7vs7) against a team of BAD players. We won 8-0. They were THAT bad. And I couldn't see any of those terrible players having problems in turning around themselves with the ball. In fact, they seemed to be able to turn practically as quickly as I was. The difference was that I cna perfectly control the ball and carry it while they were constantly doing a too long touch or having the ball go slightly to a side. And that's what makes the difference.

So, show me any single match where professional players struggle to turn in more than 1'5 seconds. Ball control is the only barrier no game has tried before, and for me it would be the more substantial to break.

 

[klashman69]

I disagree with your disagreement! Yesterday I played in one of the sunday leagues I'm on (7vs7) against a team of BAD players. We won 8-0. They were THAT bad. And I couldn't see any of those terrible players having problems in turning around themselves with the ball. In fact, they seemed to be able to turn practically as quickly as I was. The difference was that I cna perfectly control the ball and carry it while they were constantly doing a too long touch or having the ball go slightly to a side. And that's what makes the difference.

So, show me any single match where professional players struggle to turn in more than 1'5 seconds. Ball control is the only barrier no game has tried before, and for me it would be the more substantial to break.

I was actually referencing back to my last game i played at center back. My Captain is certainly what you called old fashioned and i remember him dribbling and him having a similar very slow turn on the ball. Similar to what you see in PES 2011. There others like that in my team (it's a inter uni team, it was a while ago though).

As you know your team, you can tell who your best players are when they can turn with the ball a good fast pace or when sprinting when others if turning at pace will take more touches or just lose the ball altogether. That's why i agree with Konami and when players are sprinting or using the left stick in a rather aggressive way turning with crap players should be slower and more cautious.

Then again you may prove me wrong if you think of a fair and consistent system which allows shit players to turn at a fast pace which puts in the danger of them losing the ball altogether (factors realistic error).

Also i mean turning at 90 degrees or more, not at 45 etc.. just wanted to clarify that

Also good reply man, i respect your opinion.

 

[Dryzer]

Thanks for giving us poor blind fans facts we didn't know. Thanks for showing us the light. We really wouldn't know what we could've done without such wisdom.

P.S. Have you ever heard of something called, taste? Did it ever occur to you that people have tastes and opinions different to yours?

I'm not really sure why you put all the people enjoying the game under WENB's umbrella. WENB is a place known to be about hype. If you were on it sucked into their hype then you only have yourself to blame. But to say people on here enjoying PES are "over zealous fanboys" is wrong. And to say you blame the guys on here, who are enjoying the game, for your disappointment? You can't be serious, surely? I think you are old enough to be your own judge.


Fact? What fact? It is only your opinion. And my opinion is that 2010 is a very good game, and so is 2011. So I guess I'm a liar, and I hide behind pathetic excuses, huh? Can I have my own opinion Mr.? The game isn't perfect, but I do enjoy it. Guess I should be quite embarrassed of myself then.

And no one is trying to convince you PES is superior to Fifa. This is a forum, we have discussions in here, debates etc. Also, what you consider Fifa has done over the years superior to PES is again your opinion. Many here do not like many of the things Fifa have implemented and think they're pretty useless. And that is our opinion.

What I concluded from your post, is that you're clearly not convinced with PES on this gen, at all, and therefore will only consider PES again if they change their current system, and that you're very happy with Fifa.

You haven't discussed what exactly annoys you with PES and how you want it improved. Instead, you opted to go all out blame us for your disappointment labeling all of us as liars.

According to this, I'm not quite sure how your post would add anything to a healthy discussion. It's all hate and accusation tone and would trigger nothing but unnecessary reactions.

Respect that people have different tastes and opinions. Always post and reply keeping in mind you still respect others opinions. Degrading and disrespecting other members because they do not agree with you adds nothing and only makes matters worse.

This goes out to everyone as well. Please keep it respectful. Enjoy a healthy discussion.

Over and out.

Ok before i go on, thanks for the warning pm and then the sarcastic reply. im not quite sure what the warning was for because i didnt attack any member (if thats an attack i think you need to grow thicker skin or close the forum).

Degrading members? This game has been poor for years. POOR. It has nothing to do with taste but more to do with devoted consumers hoping that their game will return.

Im not interested in what you believe - im interested in having TWO next gen football games on the system i paid out for. And i EXPECT them to be delivered with quality considering Konami delivered with a weaker machine.

So THAT means that they need to build from the ground up next gen BECAUSE they didnt do it this generation and it hasnt worked. GET IT?

Great, some people may enjoy a broken game and they may live with it, but it is still BROKEN. I dont need to discuss at length whats wrong with PES because most of the game is not right. The passing, the shooting, the animation, year in year out. You know it, i know it, most of the forum know it. As someone above has already stated postive attitudes INFLUENCE buys. I come on here because you guys enjoy football and gaming and i expect to get balanced appraisals. Ok its not as bad WENB granted but sometimes i think you lot on here don't know how influencial your opinions are on people who arnt as devoted as yourselves, same for WENB.

If people were more forthcoming with their opinions and called it as it is, maybe Konami wouldnt be serving up this muck year on year.

its been like Groundhog Day year on year for teh past 4 years, nothing of great note has been achieved by konami, they've led us along a merry song and dance while pocketing profits.

 

[klashman69]

Ok before i go on, thanks for the warning pm and then the sarcastic reply. im not quite sure what the warning was for because i didnt attack any member (if thats an attack i think you need to grow thicker skin or close the forum).

Degrading members? This game has been poor for years. POOR. It has nothing to do with taste but more to do with devoted consumers hoping that their game will return.

No, In your opinion it's been poor for years!

Im not interested in what you believe - im interested in having TWO next gen football games on the system i paid out for. And i EXPECT them to be delivered with quality considering Konami delivered with a weaker machine.

So THAT means that they need to build from the ground up next gen BECAUSE they didnt do it this generation and it hasnt worked. GET IT?

Ok, I enjoy playing WE9 but it's no better than PES 2011, no way, stuck on rails, not enough freedom when it comes to passing, passing can be insanely slow for some reason, i mean i don't want pinball passing like PES 2009 etc.. but a variation. Dribbling is very basic compared to PES 2011, very very basic and on rails. The gameplay balance is better in regards to how the game functions compared to PES 2011 but again things like the individuality isn't close to PES 2011. I can play the same way more or less with every team. It's certainly not rubbish individuality like FIFA, it's very good, just nothing compared to PES 2011.

PES 2011 murders that game in too many aspects for me and WE9 is the greatest of all the PS2 PES games.

Great, some people may enjoy a broken game and they may live with it, but it is still BROKEN. I dont need to discuss at length whats wrong with PES because most of the game is not right. The passing, the shooting, the animation, year in year out.

I love the passing Much more free in PES 2011 compared to the stuck on rails PS2 stuff. Good passers make a huge difference to your team. More so than any other game. Shooting i like but it's again about taste. Animations are behind FIFA but for the first time in this generation to an ok standard despite the crap player collisions, and players stuck in an animation and can't move off.

You know it, i know it, most of the forum know it.

Nope, it's just you.

As someone above has already stated postive attitudes INFLUENCE buys. I come on here because you guys enjoy football and gaming and i expect to get balanced appraisals. Ok its not as bad WENB granted but sometimes i think you lot on here don't know how influencial your opinions are on people who arnt as devoted as yourselves, same for WENB.

If people were more forthcoming with their opinions and called it as it is, maybe Konami wouldnt be serving up this muck year on year.

So basically your saying me another others like Lami are talking shit because we don't think PES 2011 is crap? That's what your saying yes?

Oh no, the media and a few players who don't like PES anymore think it's crap, i must not say anything positive about the game, just spam messages saying we want an HD PES 6, etc.. etc..

 

[Ameppe]

About net physics, yeah it's weird, because sometimes the ball goes out of the net without doing that effect highlighted by The Power, sometimes instead it does
it seems like sometimes they are tight, sometimes loose, and this doesn't depend on shoot power

 

[mancan]

Did anyone save those vids. Well the england spain one. Really wanted to see them again.
lol ive played the game yet still get excited by videos

 

[azur]

Nope, it's just you.

Nope, im with him.

 

[Ameppe]

i must say evo web is the most balanced website about Pes these years, and someone saying the contrary is lying. We all know wenb is about hype, while evo web is the real website to care if you want a real opinion about pes weak and strong points
i'm on wenb too, but i'm there just because that is the closest thing to Pes news (and because of Suffwan, being a fifa fan)
he is the only reason why i'm a bit more excited about pes this year compared to last years.

@Dryzer, Pes 2011 is not a broken game, it's just a bit flawed, it has its glaring weak spots, but to me they are far less than strong points

 

[BobbyBox]

I don't agree with Dryzer wholeheartedly, but I do think that PES gets away with a lot of crap. Throughballs and refs in PES are ridiculous which completely ruins the game for me, very frustrating.

I remember a while ago someone coming in here and saying that they took a call while leaving the game running, he didn't make any of his team run or anything and the players stamina was the same as at the end of the match where he had been running around. He was basically laughed out of the thread, some people are a bit blinkered on here and do not accept critism of the game. But most people are reasonable in this thread.

PES 2011 was realistic in some respects, but in other fundamental areas it fails quite badly which I think gets overlooked. hopefully PES 2012 does a better job and it looks like it will do.

The more respected members on these forums are so because they are objective and put forward good arguments to help the games progress and can see the bad points and aren't afraid to address them.

We all want the best footy game we can get and both PES and Fifa are quite far away from being great imo. The only way they are going to improve are if people say what is wrong with the games and don't just accept mediocrity.

 

[mancan]

Ok before i go on, thanks for the warning pm and then the sarcastic reply. im not quite sure what the warning was for because i didnt attack any member (if thats an attack i think you need to grow thicker skin or close the forum).

Degrading members? This game has been poor for years. POOR. It has nothing to do with taste but more to do with devoted consumers hoping that their game will return.

Im not interested in what you believe - im interested in having TWO next gen football games on the system i paid out for. And i EXPECT them to be delivered with quality considering Konami delivered with a weaker machine.

So THAT means that they need to build from the ground up next gen BECAUSE they didnt do it this generation and it hasnt worked. GET IT?

Great, some people may enjoy a broken game and they may live with it, but it is still BROKEN. I dont need to discuss at length whats wrong with PES because most of the game is not right. The passing, the shooting, the animation, year in year out. You know it, i know it, most of the forum know it. As someone above has already stated postive attitudes INFLUENCE buys. I come on here because you guys enjoy football and gaming and i expect to get balanced appraisals. Ok its not as bad WENB granted but sometimes i think you lot on here don't know how influencial your opinions are on people who arnt as devoted as yourselves, same for WENB.

If people were more forthcoming with their opinions and called it as it is, maybe Konami wouldnt be serving up this muck year on year.

its been like Groundhog Day year on year for teh past 4 years, nothing of great note has been achieved by konami, they've led us along a merry song and dance while pocketing profits.

Mate your seriously annoying constantly saying stuff like its fact. Its simply opinion, stop being so close minded. If you didnt like a game then dont play it. Pretty much every game on next gen systems would seem broken if you played them constantly for a year. The thing is with football games they are played all the time so obviously eventually things will start to show.Konami brought back many many players with pes 2011. Alot of my friends were truely surprised by it and all bought it and enjoy switching between it and fifa.

 

[lukas_rod]

I mean i think most people have completely forgotten it even exists! I do use it from time to time because i mapped the Mathews feint to it, but that' it!

I hope he returns to the "Up and Down" method. I think It's too effective when used this way (linked), aswell all other dribbles, there's another way to do it?

And despite its triviality, seems like the nets have a new shape but the physics still the same. Konami is probably working on it, is guess they've made the shape first because there are so much fetishism on it

 

[Gab_]

I disagree with your disagreement! Yesterday I played in one of the sunday leagues I'm on (7vs7) against a team of BAD players. We won 8-0. They were THAT bad. And I couldn't see any of those terrible players having problems in turning around themselves with the ball. In fact, they seemed to be able to turn practically as quickly as I was. The difference was that I cna perfectly control the ball and carry it while they were constantly doing a too long touch or having the ball go slightly to a side. And that's what makes the difference.

So, show me any single match where professional players struggle to turn in more than 1'5 seconds. Ball control is the only barrier no game has tried before, and for me it would be the more substantial to break.

Yes, let's make sure we make a big noise about this so that more people realize that ball control (every touch) is very important in real life. If we could get this in PES 2013 it would be a dream come true for me.

 

[klashman69]

Nope, im with him.

cool

@ mancan, You said it Dryzer is a very close minded poster. Hence why he seems to just echo a lot of what the media says.

Yes, let's make sure we make a big noise about this so that more people realize that ball control (every touch) is very important in real life. If we could get this in PES 2013 it would be a dream come true for me.

I found that there should be a sprinting system where you have to time tapping R1 to make sure your player takes a good touch. If you miss, your player could over hit the ball and even lose control of it completely.

now, a fair system for dribbling in general?

 

[The Power]

No, In your opinion it's been poor for years!

klashman69 I accept your opinion but do you think PES lost quality (overall) in the last 4 years compare to PES PS2?

 

[azur]

cool


@ mancan, You said it Dryzer is a very close minded poster. Hence why he seems to just echo a lot of what the media says.

Your arrogance blinds you.

 

[Dryzer]

I don't agree with Dryzer wholeheartedly, but I do think that PES gets away with a lot of crap. Throughballs and refs in PES are ridiculous which completely ruins the game for me, very frustrating.

I remember a while ago someone coming in here and saying that they took a call while leaving the game running, he didn't make any of his team run or anything and the players stamina was the same as at the end of the match where he had been running around. He was basically laughed out of the thread, some people are a bit blinkered on here and do not accept critism of the game. But most people are reasonable in this thread.

PES 2011 was realistic in some respects, but in other fundamental areas it fails quite badly which I think gets overlooked. hopefully PES 2012 does a better job and it looks like it will do.

The more respected members on these forums are so because they are objective and put forward good arguments to help the games progress and can see the bad points and aren't afraid to address them.

We all want the best footy game we can get and both PES and Fifa are quite far away from being great imo. The only way they are going to improve are if people say what is wrong with the games and don't just accept mediocrity.

To be honest Bobby you put it in a less aggresive calmer manner than myself.

I'm just very angry that's all. When the PS2 came to the end of its cycle, i couldnt wait to see Pes next gen, the possiblilities seemed endless. It's been such a let down. And now so far this year the same pattern is repeating. Theres not much time left until release and again, concerns seem to be raised about the game.

I agree with Bobby - Konami have been given an easy ride, compared to Fifa years ago that got the kicking that it quite rightly deserved.

 

[Gab_]

I found that there should be a sprinting system where you have to time tapping R1 to make sure your player takes a good touch. If you miss, your player could over hit the ball and even lose control of it completely.

now, a fair system for dribbling in general?

Well I don't want good touches to be gamer based, I like it to be stat based. I guess it could be used to make the chance of a good touch a bit higher, but not override the stats and remove individuality and make it predictable again.

 

[_anderson]

You know what happens every year? People coming here trying to show fans "the light", basically calling all people that still play PES either dumb, blind, fanboys, or better yet, all that and much more.

And we are the arrogant ones. Nice. No wonder Konami pretty much "banned" Evo-web from their Christmas list.

 

[Dryzer]

Mate your seriously annoying constantly saying stuff like its fact. Its simply opinion, stop being so close minded. If you didnt like a game then dont play it. Pretty much every game on next gen systems would seem broken if you played them constantly for a year. The thing is with football games they are played all the time so obviously eventually things will start to show.Konami brought back many many players with pes 2011. Alot of my friends were truely surprised by it and all bought it and enjoy switching between it and fifa.

How can i possibly be close minded? If anything i'm being open minded and honest, and facing facts, that on a weaker machine Pes was an essential purchase, a purchase you couldn't put down, a purchase that gave real value for money that lasted until the next instalment came around. A purchase that for the time simulated real football and gave much pleasure to millions.

Surely it figures that on a more powerful machine, the game should improve? In fact we've lost various options and facets of the game over the years, not gained them.

For me Konami has tried to do it all on the cheap using its reputation from the last gen and the dedicated fans to get it by, they have rested on their laurels and FIFA has hit back, for me thats unacceptable.

 

[Dryzer]

You know what happens every year? People coming here trying to show fans "the light", basically calling all people that still play PES either dumb, blind, fanboys, or better yet, all that and much more.

And we are the arrogant ones. Nice. No wonder Konami pretty much "banned" Evo-web from their Christmas list.

They ban you because you don't fall in line with their thinking and a certain other site does. Thats how it works. Do you think WENB would get the exclusives and early playtests, invites and freebies if they gave a real hard honest opinion, a negative one on the game? Of course they wouldnt.

 

[klashman69]

klashman69 I accept your opinion but do you think PES lost quality (overall) in the last 4 years compare to PES PS2?

It's not as good as it was at the time compared to PES in the PS2 yes. PES 5 was perfect for the technology available at the time, PES 2011 isn't exactly perfect since we are in the year 2011 and things like keeper animations, collision system etc should be much better that they are currently.

Then again. Times have changed. FIFA isn't total shit like it was in the PS2 days and there are people who just wanted a good game rather than something all out realistic.

Your arrogance blinds you.

What arrogance? I think your misinterpreting arrogance from being blunt and honest! Or do you just find me offensive because of the things i said about manual?

I'm blinded from what exactly?

 

[_anderson]

They ban you because you don't fall in line with their thinking and a certain other site does. Thats how it works. Do you think WENB would get the exclusives and early playtests, invites and freebies if they gave a real hard honest opinion, a negative one on the game? Of course they wouldnt.

I would talk with you about WENB if you had any idea of what you're talking about. Hyping it up too much doesn't mean you'll ignore what's wrong with something.

The point of a game fan forum is to want the best from the game. Stating "the obvious" doesn't help, being cynical doesn't help, purely bashing the game, the fans of the game or the company that makes it doesn't help either.

 

[The Power]

cool

@ mancan, You said it Dryzer is a very close minded poster. Hence why he seems to just echo a lot of what the media says.

Its not only the media. You can clearly see the drop down of user ratings and the quality of pes in the last 3-4 years compare to PS2 PES.

Just take a look @ those ratings. (not only the media , also the user rating on the right side)

PES6: http://apps.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/proevolutionsoccer6
PES2008: http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/pro-evolution-soccer-2008
PES2009: http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/pro-evolution-soccer-2009
PES2010: http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/pro-evolution-soccer-2010
PES2011: http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/pro-evolution-soccer-2011

You think pes have the same quality as the ps2 version? Thats fine, but as a footballfan (not pesfan) you CANT deny the quality loss of pes over the last years.

edit:

It's not as good as it was at the time compared to PES in the PS2 yes. PES 5 was perfect for the technology available at the time, PES 2011 isn't exactly perfect since we are in the year 2011 and things like keeper animations, collision system etc should be much better that they are currently.

ok

 

[Dryzer]

No, In your opinion it's been poor for years!



Ok, I enjoy playing WE9 but it's no better than PES 2011, no way, stuck on rails, not enough freedom when it comes to passing, passing can be insanely slow for some reason, i mean i don't want pinball passing like PES 2009 etc.. but a variation. Dribbling is very basic compared to PES 2011, very very basic and on rails. The gameplay balance is better in regards to how the game functions compared to PES 2011 but again things like the individuality isn't close to PES 2011. I can play the same way more or less with every team. It's certainly not rubbish individuality like FIFA, it's very good, just nothing compared to PES 2011.

PES 2011 murders that game in too many aspects for me and WE9 is the greatest of all the PS2 PES games.



.

Sorry i have to pull you up on this. You are wrongly comparing a next gen title with a last gen title side by side. Do that and of course it doesn't match up. You have to put it in context of the time it was released.

For the time when Pes was released ps2 it was way ahead, way ahead. It astounded and pleased. For the time there was nothing to match it, we didn't see the rails or many of the flaws, we didn't expect more than what we got. It was good for its time.

In comparison Fifa was Poor, really poor in my opinion like what Pes is now. They couldnt get the gameplay right. The models were less fluent, the action was very rigid and scripted, the ball mechanics lacked and they tried to sell the games by using cheap gimmicks and licensing.

Pes in its time now is lacking, considering the power it has at its disposal and the expectancy on it. Nice visuals do not a game make, and i would argue that even the old gen game, had for its time, better animation than what we expect of Pes to have for what it is at this moment.

 

[_anderson]

Its not only the media. You can clearly see the drop down of user ratings and the quality of pes in the last 3-4 years compare to PS2 PES.

Just take a look @ those ratings. (not only the media , also the user rating on the right side)

PES6: http://apps.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/proevolutionsoccer6
PES2008: http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/pro-evolution-soccer-2008
PES2009: http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/pro-evolution-soccer-2009
PES2010: http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/pro-evolution-soccer-2010
PES2011: http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/pro-evolution-soccer-2011

You think pes have the same quality as the ps2 version? Thats fine, but as a footballfan (not pesfan) you CANT deny the quality loss of pes over the last years.

It's quite obvious, to anyone, even to those who love PES 2011, that PES this gen has been lacking big time comparing to what it used to be. It has evolved in some aspects, but the overall quality of it leaves much to be desired. That doesn't mean you should simply abandon the game and "see the light" like some suggest.

Also, you know how "casual gaming" (let's call it that for the sake of simplicity) works. People pretty much "follow the trend", and the trend is set by the media. If it's a trend to dislike PES, people will do it no matter what. If PES 2012 was to be a masterpiece, people would still disregard it unless the press praised it.

 

[Dryzer]

I would talk with you about WENB if you had any idea of what you're talking about. Hyping it up too much doesn't mean you'll ignore what's wrong with something.

The point of a game fan forum is to want the best from the game. Stating "the obvious" doesn't help, being cynical doesn't help, purely bashing the game, the fans of the game or the company that makes it doesn't help either.

And praising it does? If your telling Konami what they want to hear, then you are doing yourself and the fans and the casual consumers a disservice and increasing sales on a product that doesn't deserve it.

oh and i know what i'm talking about i've been playing footy games since the late seventies on Atari.

 

[azur]

What arrogance? I think your misinterpreting arrogance from being blunt and honest!

I'm blinded from what exactly?

Nevermind, i probably misinterpreted you.

Or do you just find me offensive because of the things i said about manual?

Hein??

 

[klashman69]

Anderson, he answered to quickly.. he didn't see my reply.

 

[Dryzer]

Anyway i guess we are going off topic now and im interrupting those that want to talk about the latest incarnation. We will see what we get when its released.

 

[The Power]

In comparison Fifa was Poor, really poor in my opinion like what Pes is now. They couldnt get the gameplay right. The models were less fluent, the action was very rigid and scripted, the ball mechanics lacked and they tried to sell the games by using cheap gimmicks and licensing.

absolutely agree on this!