PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[zeemeister]

Did anyone notice the keeper save a cutback on the barcelona - milan match?

LOL I would perform harakiri if I performed a cutback and it got onto youtube. Lol

 

[porridge]

Early code or not, knowing what has happened in recent years, it's not necessarily over-analysing when someone is not really that impressed by various things we've seen.

People can, of course, endlessly find comfort from factors rather irrelevant, like these players "not playing the game as it should be played". However, PES's biggest issue is just that it actually allows you to play like that. Is it now all that questionable when one or two previewers have dreaded to use phrases like "still too arcade", angering some parts of the community who then hysterically begin defining the words "simulation" and "arcade" more to their liking?

So passing seems bloody awful without a shadow of doubt, and I do wonder how they're going to fix that ping-ponging now which undoubtedly is in the game (quick turn passes as I call them in my bad English). I'm not a developer, maybe there is an easy switch or something, but how likely is it that it doesn't come without a cost? So maybe the clichés "don't play this way" and "don't exploit that" will come handy once again.

Every year they say the same things about goalkeepers, they "will be fixed" at later stages and so on. Then at some point there will be the perfectly put announcement that "omg!!! keepers are fixed!!!". But let's face it, fixing goalkeepers in PES has usually meant that some unbelievable bugs in top player level have been eradicated (ones that are not even seen in miscellaneous gameplay videos, were they official or unofficial). That's what "fixing" actually means, doesn't it? I think - having seen most of the videos - it's fair to assume that the goalkeepers will not really change for the better from PES2011. They'll remain just as they have been.

And I wouldn't have any problem with that if only PES included an option to force top player goalkeeping at all times. In fact, it could save PES at least in terms of BAL or whatever it's going to be called. With hindsight, such a little thing would have made such a huge difference to PES2011. It'd have been possible to make BAL at least sort of enjoyable with some careful stats tweaking.

Actually, if I was the producer of PES, I would with no hesitation whatsoever scrap all the other goalkeeper levels than top player. If Seabass is so happy with "realistic" top player goalkeepers in PES, why do they insist on keeping the weakened ones in the game? Quite frankly, I don't get that. What's the use for the keepers we've seen over the years in Konami's OFFICIAL videos, for example?

 

[Rodelero]

The passing worries me a fair bit. So quick, very accurate, seemingly unconstrained by context. I don't want to see a situation where 'assisted' passing is like playing FIFA 10 frankly. It's still better than FIFA's passing though so it may well just be a case of the lesser of two evils. I do wish one of these games could put a stop to the 180-degree-pass crap though.

 

[Thespeedster84]

I guess, one way to answer and balance whatever people reactions in the last 2-3 pages to the leaked E3 vids is proper advanced stamina system. Proper stamina system will be taken into account by whoever playing it in whatever style they want. Unless they are silly enough to keep forward forward for 90 mins.

@Rodelero
it is just the accuracy should be lessen for any low to top level player, also could be the way the ball physic behaves etc, and proper animation too. this is what you mean, yes ?

 

[Tunizizou]

Another post about Ronaldo @ http://www.facebook.com/PES. I'm 100% sure it's him now.

Just imagine with PES 2012 logo

 

[gerd]

Early code or not, knowing what has happened in recent years, it's not necessarily over-analysing when someone is not really that impressed by various things we've seen.

People can, of course, endlessly find comfort from factors rather irrelevant, like these players "not playing the game as it should be played".

Your post is a fine example. Most people are over-biased. Some positive (these players are not playing the game as it should be played - i totally agree with you there). Some negative, like you.

Gab's argument may be valid, but not always. Last year the demo was better than the actual game because of the criticism of the fans about the demo. In that instance, Konami should not have listened.

I'm a music fan (an an old man), it seems as if Konami are video games' version of Bob Dylan. Capable of the best and the worst and not always the best judge of their own work. The last 30 years, usually Dylan's collections of outtakes are better than his regular albums (with a few recent exceptions).

 

[Rodelero]

I guess, one way to answer and balance whatever people reactions in the last 2-3 pages to the leaked E3 vids is proper advanced stamina system. Proper stamina system will be taken into account by whoever playing it in whatever style they want. Unless they are silly enough to keep forward forward for 90 mins.

@Rodelero
it is just the accuracy should be lessen for any low to top level player, also could be the way the ball physic behaves etc, and proper animation too. this is what you mean, yes ?

Well, if you just watch the gameplay videos, there are hundreds of occasions where players are pulling off dead accurate, perfectly weighted passes to players behind their back. That's the tip of the iceberg. Just generally, it's too fast, too accurate, too easy. Maybe it's something which scales with difficulty - though I do wish this wasn't the way it worked.

 

[Thespeedster84]

Is it only me or anyone also notice visually that supposedly powerful and long ground passes flies too far and land just next to the receiving player in most cases? I am not talking about floaty look here. PES 6 is slightly better in this case, no ?

@Rodelero
yup need more tweaking.

 

[drekkard]

Watching the England - Spain, I can only fear how passing is still too accurate, even in difficult conditions, even in first touches that most of those England players wouldn't be able to do in real life, and specially not with that pixel precision.

Deffenders AI is better, though, and there's more anticipation. But I would like to see a lot more error in passing, it's ridiculous and makes the game ping-pongy and looks arcadey. Players run too and gamespeed SEEMS to be a tad faster than I would like to as a default. Players seem to do 4 strides per second all the time!

That ties to another big thing they should add, which is bad ball control. Making defenders turn and move slowly with the ball is a lame and cheap fix. They can turn as quick as any other human being. Only they don't have the ball sewed to the foot. They will loose it a little, have an unexpected bad touch, etc... Until this isn't implemented in any football game, we will have this run-and-pass game which seems to be good and fun this year, but to me that would be the real revolution and would made a significant impact on individuality.

Overall I see many things that work better and the game seems more intelligent in pathfinding and AI awareness (which were the main flaw of PES 2011). So at least it's a definite improvement.

 

[klashman69]

I think we get it that you despise him.You sound like a badly broken record

I like calling him ratface? You don't have to care what i say.

 

[hany3]

just wanted to show u some issues i saw in the yesterday's pes 2012 leaked video

according to the law of gravitation ,the ball should finally settle on the ground after going in the net but actually this rule is not applied in pes 2012
as u see in the screen shots below that the ball appears as if it is stuck highly in the net beyond the line separating the net from the ground "above & behind the line where the net is touching the ground"

also in this screen shot u can see the net physics are very much exaggerated and this is unrealistic if this happens with such a "tight" net , may be accepted with the old loose one

i'm not net fetishist but these issues especially the one related to ball physics "bouncing" from the net are not any good to be seen in final release

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

haha @ ratface. Did anyone notice one of those video's (Barcelona Milan maybe??) where at about 3.30 (give or take a few seconds) there was a guy tryin to hit a volley near the corner of the 18 yard box and NO bicyle kick was in sight

 

[Thespeedster84]

I agree with dekkard.

Anyhow don't you guys see that despite this fast forward and sometime ping pong style these people use, overall it seems that these kinda not that effective in making scoring opportunities ? Is it because the improvement of ai defence we see here?

Any beta/play tester SHOULD test this game with this style to look at how effective it could be to produce scoring opportunity and to test the defense's ai balance.

 

[wabak]

Anyone have any links to the new footage? I can't find it anywhere.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

None of these pricks shoot from distance lol. Too busy sprinting or doing tricks...

 

[klashman69]

Watching the England - Spain, I can only fear how passing is still too accurate, even in difficult conditions, even in first touches that most of those England players wouldn't be able to do in real life, and specially not with that pixel precision.

Deffenders AI is better, though, and there's more anticipation. But I would like to see a lot more error in passing, it's ridiculous and makes the game ping-pongy and looks arcadey. Players run too and gamespeed SEEMS to be a tad faster than I would like to as a default. Players seem to do 4 strides per second all the time!

Like i said before it's a 10 minute match! What do you expect? Many of the things your concerned aren't a huge issue PES 2011, just by playing at least 15 minutes and especially if you play longer matches, it becomes a lot harder. I was worried and i'm still slightly concerned with ball control being a bit perfect but then again English players are overrated with their technique stats in PES and also there were still many elephant touches so i'm not letting it get to me.

I remember leaving the game settings on 25 minutes and my roommate then started up a champions league tournament with his chelsea without him knowing matches where 25 minutes long. On 10 minutes, he does pretty well and wins most matches by playing a rather attacking 4-2-4 formation and the usual quick passing to Torres, Drogba etc.. Now he played against Marseille on 25 minutes. He was 4-0 down by half time.

I remember walking in and he said. shit, it's long and it's a lot harder.

I posted a video above showing a team goal by Barca vs Almeria in 2009 scored by Bojan. it takes Barca almost 2 minutes to collect what i think was 39 passes and score. In a 10 minute game with 5 minutes each half. That's eight minutes, a 5th of the half gone! on just one attack.

10 minutes has always been centered around fun, fast and frantic matches. for people who don't want to like me spend an eternity setting up tactics.

I came to a sensible conclusion that 10 minutes is never going to be realsitic.

In fact i think Online they should sort online ranking by time limit.

Arcade = 5-10 minutes
Standard = 15-20
(heavy) Simulation = 25+

 

[Autogolazo]

Hany3 - If you look at the video Konami released a couple of days ago the net physics seem better.

YouTube - PES 2012 Gameplay Video 08 - Teammate Controls / Manual

 

[klashman69]

That ties to another big thing they should add, which is bad ball control. Making defenders turn and move slowly with the ball is a lame and cheap fix. They can turn as quick as any other human being. Only they don't have the ball sewed to the foot. They will loose it a little, have an unexpected bad touch, etc... Until this isn't implemented in any football game, we will have this run-and-pass game which seems to be good and fun this year, but to me that would be the real revolution and would made a significant impact on individuality.

Disagree. I love the slow turning defenders and players on a purple who have modest technique etc.. Remember it's not making their limbs moving slower at all. they just take more considered and safe touches when turning because their ball control isn't very good and they aren't as comfortable on the ball!

When a player has average or poor ball control. You won't see him attempt to turn sharply with the ball like you would expect from a gifted player.

As for unexpected bad touches, i said earlier i would love to see players take poor elephant touches while sprinting with the ball if you don't time pressing R1, I agree. I think Which sprinting in general with a crap technique player should present a chance of the player just screwing up and losing the ball. But for general dribbling with crap players, i think the current systems about right. I've actually a few times completely lost control of the ball when trying stupidly fancy turns with defenders. Don't happen often but the ball ain't stuck to their feet

 

[Rodelero]

Like i said before it's a 10 minute match! What do you expect? Many of the things your concerned aren't a huge issue PES 2011, just by playing at least 15 minutes and especially if you play longer matches, it becomes a lot harder. I was worried and i'm still slightly concerned with ball control being a bit perfect but then again English players are overrated with their technique stats in PES and also there were still many elephant touches so i'm not letting it get to me.

I remember leaving the game settings on 25 minutes and my roommate then started up a champions league tournament with his chelsea without him knowing matches where 25 minutes long. On 10 minutes, he does pretty well and wins most matches by playing a rather attacking 4-2-4 formation and the usual quick passing to Torres, Drogba etc.. Now he played against Marseille on 25 minutes. He was 4-0 down by half time.

I remember walking in and he said. shit, it's long and it's a lot harder.

I posted a video above showing a team goal by Barca vs Almeria in 2009 scored by Bojan. it takes Barca almost 2 minutes to collect what i think was 39 passes and score. In a 10 minute game with 5 minutes each half. That's eight minutes, a 5th of the half gone! on just one attack.

10 minutes has always been centered around fun, fast and frantic matches. for people who don't want to like me spend an eternity setting up tactics.

I came to a sensible conclusion that 10 minutes is never going to be realsitic.

In fact i think Online they should sort online ranking by time limit.

Arcade = 5-10 minutes
Standard = 15-20
(heavy) Simulation = 25+

It would be nice if Konami clarified what the different match lengths and difficulties meant for the way the gameplay worked, because it's a complete maze for me. I've noticed myself that the difference between 10 and 15 is massive in terms of gameplay but it's not stated. Moreover, they shouldn't show off the 10 minute gameplay at these events because it doesn't look anywhere near as good.

 

[wabak]

There is a ridiculous amount of stuff in the game that they don't explain, they need to change that.

 

[dannyfc2]

As for unexpected bad touches, i said earlier i would love to see players take poor elephant touches while sprinting with the ball if you don't time pressing R1, I agree. =

That's actually a fantastic idea of how to implement sprinting.

 

[klashman69]

It would be nice if Konami clarified what the different match lengths and difficulties meant for the way the gameplay worked, because it's a complete maze for me. I've noticed myself that the difference between 10 and 15 is massive in terms of gameplay but it's not stated. Moreover, they shouldn't show off the 10 minute gameplay at these events because it doesn't look anywhere near as good.

There is a ridiculous amount of stuff in the game that they don't explain, they need to change that.

I know. It's madness. play a match on 10 minutes then play the same exact match on 30 minutes.

It's two different video games quite literally!!

I mean my mate can even beat the demon Barca i and others created in the tactics thread on 10 minutes.

On 15, the best i've got was a draw.

On 25 i lost 7-1 against them! I've never been so violated by a CPU team on a video game

 

[Butterfly]

just wanted to show u some issues i saw in the yesterday's pes 2012 leaked video

according to the law of gravitation ,the ball should finally settle on the ground after going in the net but actually this rule is not applied in pes 2012
as u see in the screen shots below that the ball appears as if it is stuck highly in the net beyond the line separating the net from the ground "above & behind the line where the net is touching the ground"

also in this screen shot u can see the net physics are very much exaggerated and this is unrealistic if this happens with such a "tight" net , may be accepted with the old loose one

i also noticed the bad ball bouncing from the goal net sometimes with the strange net physics in the leaked gameplay videos and i doubt it will be fixed till the game release

 

[André_11]

I always played my master leagues with 10min of game and still (in rare ocasions) sometimes i managed to win by 8-0, 9-0...my record is an 12-0 in the clubs world cup against international and i play in top player! of course that sometimes there are some games that end up with an annoying 0-0 (or defeats), but i think that 10min is enough to play a good game

i think that the gameplay is way too easy, sometimes i try to play with an weak team and still i end up almost champion and when i have a good team i always win with an advantage of 20, 30 points of the second place

 

[ozfootball]

i also noticed the bad ball bouncing from the goal net sometimes with the strange net physics in the leaked gameplay videos and i doubt it will be fixed till the game release

oh dear lord u cannot be serious???????????? something like this actually bothers u?

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Just try a 15 minute game, you'll never go back. It's impossible, in my opinion, to even begin to recreate a 90 minute match in a 10 minute game. 15 minute matches are pretty much perfectly balanced with incident and relevant scenarios across all levels. Try it.

 

[Butterfly]

oh dear lord u cannot be serious???????????? something like this actually bothers u?

things like this kill any realism in the game so why they create a realistic football atmosphere , managers on sideline , camera men and ground stuff animated and then when u score a goal the ball still suspended in the roof of the net praying it may finally come down , very funny indeed

 

[The Power]

Early code or not, knowing what has happened in recent years, it's not necessarily over-analysing when someone is not really that impressed by various things we've seen.

People can, of course, endlessly find comfort from factors rather irrelevant, like these players "not playing the game as it should be played". However, PES's biggest issue is just that it actually allows you to play like that. Is it now all that questionable when one or two previewers have dreaded to use phrases like "still too arcade", angering some parts of the community who then hysterically begin defining the words "simulation" and "arcade" more to their liking?

So passing seems bloody awful without a shadow of doubt, and I do wonder how they're going to fix that ping-ponging now which undoubtedly is in the game (quick turn passes as I call them in my bad English). I'm not a developer, maybe there is an easy switch or something, but how likely is it that it doesn't come without a cost? So maybe the clichés "don't play this way" and "don't exploit that" will come handy once again.

Every year they say the same things about goalkeepers, they "will be fixed" at later stages and so on. Then at some point there will be the perfectly put announcement that "omg!!! keepers are fixed!!!". But let's face it, fixing goalkeepers in PES has usually meant that some unbelievable bugs in top player level have been eradicated (ones that are not even seen in miscellaneous gameplay videos, were they official or unofficial). That's what "fixing" actually means, doesn't it? I think - having seen most of the videos - it's fair to assume that the goalkeepers will not really change for the better from PES2011. They'll remain just as they have been.

And I wouldn't have any problem with that if only PES included an option to force top player goalkeeping at all times. In fact, it could save PES at least in terms of BAL or whatever it's going to be called. With hindsight, such a little thing would have made such a huge difference to PES2011. It'd have been possible to make BAL at least sort of enjoyable with some careful stats tweaking.

Actually, if I was the producer of PES, I would with no hesitation whatsoever scrap all the other goalkeeper levels than top player. If Seabass is so happy with "realistic" top player goalkeepers in PES, why do they insist on keeping the weakened ones in the game? Quite frankly, I don't get that. What's the use for the keepers we've seen over the years in Konami's OFFICIAL videos, for example?

THIS!

 

[kouroux]

I like calling him ratface? You don't have to care what i say.

I don't care about what you said.I find it pathetic it's all

 

[klashman69]

I don't care about what you said.I find it pathetic it's all

He's a top player, but he's an ass! I know he's a great player but that dosen't mean i have to like him!

I always played my master leagues with 10min of game and still (in rare ocasions) sometimes i managed to win by 8-0, 9-0...my record is an 12-0 in the clubs world cup against international and i play in top player! of course that sometimes there are some games that end up with an annoying 0-0 (or defeats), but i think that 10min is enough to play a good game

i think that the gameplay is way too easy, sometimes i try to play with an weak team and still i end up almost champion and when i have a good team i always win with an advantage of 20, 30 points of the second place

Yes, exactly, 10 minutes is too easy. Try 15 and it'll be a lot harder, 25 minutes + is just a different game entirely! The AI doesn't cheat as much as it used to back in the PS2 days and also PES 2011 is very free. Your able to use manual passes and have a very good sense of 360 dribbling. PES 3, 4, 5, 6etc.. where rigid and on rails which made it harder.

Just try a 15 minute game, you'll never go back. It's impossible, in my opinion, to even begin to recreate a 90 minute match in a 10 minute game. 15 minute matches are pretty much perfectly balanced with incident and relevant scenarios across all levels. Try it.

Wouldn't say 15 minutes is perfect but it's what i see as the 'standard'. It gives you enough realsim and enough time to get multiple games a session. it's enough time to get immersed in a game.

I mean 25 + minutes is better but it just takes up too much time in a day Your only going to get 2-3 games at most in a session.