PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

For me:

1. Best ball physics

2. Amazing zonal marking and positioning

3. Very good defenders moves!!! They stand, they walk, side steps etc..

4. Best defenders and attackers AI...

5. Amazing teammate manual control for smart and good players

6. Best running animations

7. Οverlap

PES 2012= THE BEST PES...thanx KONAMI!!!
 
_anderson said:
Didn't talked about Adam at all :P Seriously, ask mancan when he's around.

These videos are speeded up due to several factors (you're recording 60fps footage from a screen with a crappy phone with bad lighting that can only record 30fps max, then uploaded to Youtube, all that summed up should be a speed increase of 200%) and may give you the impression reactions are instant for every player. Tunizizou is other guy from these boards that can tell you the same thing.
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I'll remain skeptical until i play the demo or MLO beta! Or if there's a playtest in london.
 
goalgerd said:
its also good to see the linesman doesnt flag anymore for players not interfering with play,check Fábio Coentrão's run and then check to get back onside when the ball is played
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Reminded me of that tactic which got really big a few years ago (in real football, I mean).

1. Centre forward stands ten yards offside, on the edge of the box. Defence ignores him.

2. Midfielder plays a through ball from deep to a winger or full back pelting down the touchline. Defence runs across to stop him, still ignoring the offside striker.

3. As soon as the wide man gets level with the box, he crosses for the striker, who's still being ignored but is no longer offside because he was behind the ball when the cross came in.

4. Striker has one-on-one with the keeper.


Henry used to do this a lot, it was also one of Ruud Van Nistelrooy's favourite tactics. I could see that working with this new feature. I could also see that becoming an exploit with this new feature. Again, we'll have to wait and see.
 
So out of a whole pile of statistics (30 maybe?) there is ONE that could be overridden by the run trigger. Offensive/defensive mentality. So all of a sudden the other 29 stats are rendered useless and player's individuality is lost? Give me a break lol

Who cares if you can get Puyol running into the penalty box - I'd only be worried if he can then score goals as easily as Villa. THAT would be a loss of individuality.

I dare say this feature is something you might try every now and then IF you can see a player is not making the run you want, even with the new AI. Does not mean you will be able to retain the ball long enough to even pass to this player making the run, nor does it mean your pass will be effective...and I dare say that player could be getting caught offside a fair bit if you don't pass the ball early enough.

Far out - everything's an exploit around here lol. Having Messi or Ronaldo's speed represented realistically is an exploit too if you use it. So is Lampard's long range shooting...
 
What about the incisive run, free roaming, classic no 10, marauding, extra attacker, darting run (I think?) cards? It's not just mentality Calcio.

We've never said that this removes passing accuracy or anything like that either. We're not stupid.

It does sound very difficult to use from what the podcast says, FWIW. It doesn't seem like something that you'll be able to use to trigger hundreds of runs (in manual mode), and assisted sounds like it's crap anyway.
 
romagnoli said:
What about the incisive run, free roaming, classic no 10, marauding, extra attacker, darting run (I think?) cards? It's not just mentality Calcio.

We've never said that this removes passing accuracy or anything like that either. We're not stupid.

It does sound very difficult to use from what the podcast says, FWIW. It doesn't seem like something that you'll be able to use to trigger hundreds of runs (in manual mode), and assisted sounds like it's crap anyway.
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are you sure you will always be able to take control of the secondary player you want in attack?
do you really think you will not be put under pressure by CPU or other humans and you will have the time to use it?
i think yours it's a bit of exaggeration since the card skills you are indicating are always active, and will not be overdone by these trigger runs or manual 2nd player movement
i mean, even if you decided to use it, it's impossible for me to use it more than three-four times in a match, while the rest of the match will be left to the individual skills of the player controlled by AI
my only concern about this feature it's it could be exploited online in assisted setting
 
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romagnoli said:
What about the incisive run, free roaming, classic no 10, marauding, extra attacker, darting run (I think?) cards? It's not just mentality Calcio.

We've never said that this removes passing accuracy or anything like that either. We're not stupid.

It does sound very difficult to use from what the podcast says, FWIW. It doesn't seem like something that you'll be able to use to trigger hundreds of runs (in manual mode), and assisted sounds like it's crap anyway.
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Hello rom, despite my worries about this assisted button, and the ball is already on the floor, i hope you guys participate in the feedback thread for this gameplay feature shown at that site.

Here is my suggestion i put there, if the assisted still exist. Suggestion to make this assisted run less problematic :
a. It is not always straight run ---> for variety
b. Second player will not always want to run but jog or even walking ---> Stamina attribute
c. Second player can make mistake to which direction he wants to run ---> His tactical awareness/attacking cards attribute taking into account.

So the situation control as in real football that i want to approach is like, now i am with ball dribbling. Then I ask/shout forcefully for my team mate to run. He understand my command that i need help. But on the end, its all about his ability.

Cheers
 
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romagnoli said:
What about the incisive run, free roaming, classic no 10, marauding, extra attacker, darting run (I think?) cards? It's not just mentality Calcio.

We've never said that this removes passing accuracy or anything like that either. We're not stupid.

It does sound very difficult to use from what the podcast says, FWIW. It doesn't seem like something that you'll be able to use to trigger hundreds of runs (in manual mode), and assisted sounds like it's crap anyway.
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All of those mentalities and player cards are still going to come into effect, it's just that you will be able to override if you want, to some extent, if you are capable. I can see why people may be against this, it's obviously going to reduce some degree of individuality, but then, so does any area of the game which they give us more control. I think a lot of people who aren't necessarily into PES right now will like it. It will guard against the AI having issues as it does in PES 2011 with it being too negative. It may well provide levels of creativity which even PES 2012's AI will not be able to provide on its own.

Assuming its balanced, I'm not that bothered. Ideally I'd want the AI to be able to handle it all, but I find it hard to be convinced on that, and I know that a lot of people find the lack of a player run button in 2011 really annoying (though people make up for it by using a lot of the one-two initiating pass button). I don't see it as a particularly exciting feature, but maybe it will help Konami in capturing the wider community a little, and that could be beneficial in the long term even if this feature, as many obviously hope, is a short term inclusion.

I do think they've gone in quite a long way with this feature quite fast, which is always a little worrying. I'd have preferred they go with a sort of "Make a run" button, which was more subtle and was something which would indicate to your teammates that you wanted someone to make a run, but leave the way they did it (if at all) up to them.
 
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Fair enough - I see what you mean. But number 10 is a playmaker, not a run into space guy. When have you ever seen Totti or Baggio run harder than they have to LOL.

I think Konami were showing the potential uses...the real world application and effectiveness would be extremely difficult to master in an attacking sense I dare say. And if you can do the same with defenders then you should be able to counter it, in theory.

I wasn't implying anyone is stupid. I just think there's a lot of complaints before anyone has actually tried it out. I mean, using super cancel is over-riding a player's individuality is it not?? Yet, this is something that is always looked upon as a real skill from what I've read in this forum.

For example, adjusting someone's run offensively or defensively when their stats and player cards are making them go in a different direction. Also, I don't think you'd be selecting a player in the defensive line to run forward - you'd probably look for someone near the ball carrier or ahead of the ball carrier.

Playing 1 v 1 with my mate recently, Inzaghi scored a cracking strike from 25 yards out, but he has the Fox in the Box card. Doesn't make sense does it?
 
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@CalcioCalabrese

To some point, imo, there is fundamental different between overriding individuality of controlled player and uncontrolled one. It should be in what context/situation it is being applied.
 
I agree with Klashman, defenders seem to have turnning speed and ball control as good as midfielders. That worries me too.
 
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I played in defence but could also play in midfield or up front. They're world class footballers - why would it matter that a player is a defender? They CAN have amazing technique. Not all but some do. If they had bad first touch, they'd be conceding a lot more goals ;)
 
Thespeedster84 said:
@CalcioCalabrese

To some point, imo, there is fundamental different between overriding individuality of controlled player and uncontrolled one. It should be in what context/situation it is being applied.
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True. It should be remembered that a real player can direct his team-mates while on the field on occassion. If you've played the game, you know what I mean. Whilst not having the same level of control as what this feature can provide, you can still "request" your team-mates to come to the ball, run into space or whatever. Obviously, their "stats" will determine whether they do it well, poorly, or if they tell you to &*^^ off lol
 
goalgerd said:
lami its up to you to set us all straight on the pros and cons of this new system
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Honome_WEC said:
I can't understand how people are getting so upset about this feature without even playing the game and seeing how it works. I agree, we have to wait for Lami impressions.
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zeemeister said:
Bloody speculation is killing me. Lami my friend you need to really take a hard look at these features and report back mate.
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_anderson said:
Not even if Lami tells you the same? :P

Beta should come soon enough.
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There are things that I might like/dislike that you may not agree with, obviously. Just don't take my word as gospel though. I'm not trying to be a 'fake messiah'. Your own opinions should matter the most when trying it yourselves. You be the judge.

But I do appreciate this amigos, and I'll definitely do my best.

EDIT: Also, just wanted to add that by the time I get to test the game, I'm sure there will be tons of other previews out there that will give you a better picture than what it is now.


goalgerd said:
hopefully our outspoken and intelligent views will not make konami change their mind about lami getting his preview copy in the post:CONFUSE:
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:LOL: Hope not!
 
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CalcioCalabrese said:
True. It should be remembered that a real player can direct his team-mates while on the field on occassion. If you've played the game, you know what I mean. Whilst not having the same level of control as what this feature can provide, you can still "request" your team-mates to come to the ball, run into space or whatever. Obviously, their "stats" will determine whether they do it well, poorly, or if they tell you to &*^^ off lol
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Yes, this is what i mean. I hope lami read this and look into it when he is testing the preview code :JAY: .

I hope you don't mind bringing some of our concern here, right Lami ? :P
 
Lami said:
There are things that I might like/dislike that you may not agree with, obviously. Just don't take my word as gospel though. I'm not trying to be a 'fake messiah'. Your own opinions should matter the most when trying it yourselves. You be the judge.

But I do appreciate this amigos, and I'll definitely do my best.

EDIT: Also, just wanted to add that by the time I get to test the game, I'm sure there will be tons of other previews out there that will give you a better picture than what it is now.




:LOL: Hope not!
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Lami, you better not screw it up mate! We´ll all buy or not buy the game based on your impressions!!!! :RANT:




:LOL:
 
Thespeedster84 said:
Yes, this is what i mean. I hope lami read this and look into it when he is testing the preview code :JAY: .

I hope you don't mind bringing some of our concern here, right Lami ? :P
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Why would I mind? This is Evo-web, mate, where PES's true hardcore fanbase is.
 
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@ Lami. Well obviously but you are like minded and sort of understand our angle. So it will be a good indication if what to expect. But you're right we will have to make up our own minds and in some instances it takes days/ weeks/ months to get to grips with things.

@calcio, I play PES2011 a hell of a lot and have come to understand the games finer details like how to get defenders to push up and which areas they have a tendency to move into. I am just concerned that this trait or individuality is now lost because I can make any defender run up the field like Daniel Alves or Maicon. So if I am playing master league does this mean I no longer need to search for a player with the right stats for my team?
Or does it mean that I can have one universal formation regardless of the team I am using because I can get players to play one formation and dictate where they move?
The beauty of PES is how each team has its own style and you need to understand their style and players to use them effectively.
As stated enough times already we need to see this in action for ourselves before writing it off but in my opinion, at face value, it is a move away from PES philosophy.
 
zeemeister said:
@ Lami. Well obviously but you are like minded and sort of understand our angle. So it will be a good indication if what to expect. But you're right we will have to make up our own minds and in some instances it takes days/ weeks/ months to get to grips with things.

@calcio, I play PES2011 a hell of a lot and have come to understand the games finer details like how to get defenders to push up and which areas they have a tendency to move into. I am just concerned that this trait or individuality is now lost because I can make any defender run up the field like Daniel Alves or Maicon. So if I am playing master league does this mean I no longer need to search for a player with the right stats for my team?
Or does it mean that I can have one universal formation regardless of the team I am using because I can get players to play one formation and dictate where they move?
The beauty of PES is how each team has its own style and you need to understand their style and players to use them effectively.
As stated enough times already we need to see this in action for ourselves before writing it off but in my opinion, at face value, it is a move away from PES philosophy.
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I understand where you're coming from but as I was saying before, I envision one type of situation where you'd use this feature as follows:

- down the wing or near the centre circle with a bit of time and space, look up and want your forward to move diagonally (if he's not already doing so) or you look sideways and want a parallel midfielder to make a forward run.

Similar to the Konami video. Now, in this example, why on earth would anyone flick the right stick all the way back to a defender and initiate a forward run? You'd have to wait for him to run past the midfield and get into a scoring position, ensuring you don't lose the ball in that period of time, thus breaking down any forward momentum you have and giving time for the other side to cover off the space.

I appreciate the points you made and I also love that about PES. Miles ahead of FIFA in this regard. But I see the feature as an option we have available which you might choose to try out if the situation allows you to. If you use it the wrong way, you might be getting some unrealistic results - but that goes for formations as well which you can exploit...triple tapped crosses etc.

I try to play the game like real football and Master league the way you described it. I don't think there's anything stopping you from still looking for players who suit a position. You're not going to turn a zero into a hero justbecause you can possibly initiate a run with him.

Just my opinion mate. Not trying to argue :)
 
zeemeister said:
@ Lami. Well obviously but you are like minded and sort of understand our angle. So it will be a good indication if what to expect. But you're right we will have to make up our own minds and in some instances it takes days/ weeks/ months to get to grips with things.
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Yep. That's what I meant mate :)
Honome_WEC said:
Lami, you better not screw it up mate! We´ll all buy or not buy the game based on your impressions!!!! :RANT:




:LOL:
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The pressure.... its..... too... much... uhh..

elmo-suicide-random-7054698-460-705.jpg


*had to use your image there rom
 
Doesn't people online use "trigger run" anyway with the pass and run button? I think it has been mentioned already, but it's not like playing online currently gives you a realistic experience. I don't think people will notice any difference, it will probably just mean a little less pass-and-run exchanged with trigger runs.

I wonder what happen if you take a second player (manually) and running just in front of him, obstructing oncoming opposition, if it will actually be a freekick against you.
 
Gab_ said:
I wonder what happen if you take a second player (manually) and running just in front of him, obstructing oncoming opposition, if it will actually be a freekick against you.
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yes would be interesting to know more for that scenario, Also what if the other player (manually chosen), could be used to obstruct defenders, making way for our player in control..
 
Listening to the podcast and remembering from the game menus (they have a place for a faceshot), it seems to me that you will create your own Pro player like in FIFA. And you'll get points for your player when you do stuff in Challenge mode. If they do this, the "Epic" news that Adam talked about (Football Life I guess) is probably about a Clubs mode or something similar. The only thing that goes against this theory is their record of having shit network code. But I think they really need to try their own Clubs mode since it is so popular in FIFA.
 
vivek1412 said:
yes would be interesting to know more for that scenario, Also what if the other player (manually chosen), could be used to obstruct defenders, making way for our player in control..
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They won't get far if your opponent hacks him down lol.

But you're assuming it's going to be easy enough to watch and control two players well enough to mirror the defender with one stick, while dribbling/turning with the other stick and retaining possesion. Unless you're Paul the Octopus I think it would be very hard to do.
 
Gab_ said:
Listening to the podcast and remembering from the game menus (they have a place for a faceshot), it seems to me that you will create your own Pro player like in FIFA. And you'll get points for your player when you do stuff in Challenge mode. If they do this, the "Epic" news that Adam talked about (Football Life I guess) is probably about a Clubs mode or something similar. The only thing that goes against this theory is their record of having shit network code. But I think they really need to try their own Clubs mode since it is so popular in FIFA.
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I forget what that is? Is it where your created player is in a team with other created players?
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
They won't get far if your opponent hacks him down lol.

But you're assuming it's going to be easy enough to watch and control two players well enough to mirror the defender with one stick, while dribbling/turning with the other stick and retaining possesion. Unless you're Paul the Octopus I think it would be very hard to do.
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lol.. i know its gonna be really tough, but i was just wondering, if my second players blocks the defender, not intentionally though, like just running straight into him, and they both fall down...
 
vivek1412 said:
lol.. i know its gonna be really tough, but i was just wondering, if my second players blocks the defender, not intentionally though, like just running straight into him, and they both fall down...
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haha that could be funny but unless it's FIFA, I don't think they'd fall down very easily.

I'm actually looking forward to FIFA 12 - I won't have to buy any wrestling games this year. I'll just play FIFA ;)
 
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