PES 2011 Discussion thread

[ToonArmy]

Anyone else getting these issues? Strikers always seem to hang around outside or on the edge of the box instead of getting in there when you are waiting to cross the ball. This game has huge problems with player positioning. Full backs always wandering into strikers position, strikers dropping really deep when they shouldn't be and more. Also the runs need to be sorted. I counted a few times yesterday where my winger had the ball near the touchline so I turned back expecting support from my right-back, but where was he? Making runs into the penalty area while the strikers are outside the box! This happens much to often and really needs to be sorted tbh...

I still enjoy the game a lot but the issues are really frustrating!

 

[proxi]

Anyone else getting these issues? Strikers always seem to hang around outside or on the edge of the box instead of getting in there when you are waiting to cross the ball. This game has huge problems with player positioning. Full backs always wandering into strikers position, strikers dropping really deep when they shouldn't be and more.

I had this for a while, was starting to get on my wick. I saw the AI having their guys having their 6 yard box cake and eating it. Wanted a bit of that. So I checked the players I wanted to be bogliners (box campers) had the "fox in the box" player card (or whatever it's exactly called), their mentality set to either of the attacking options and also on the Game Plan screen shove them so far up the screen they're virtually sat upon your television.

Doesn't make it work 100% but it makes it better overall, from personal experience.

Also the runs need to be sorted. I counted a few times yesterday where my winger had the ball near the touchline so I turned back expecting support from my right-back, but where was he? Making runs into the penalty area while the strikers are outside the box!

I have a problem with this too. Whatever mentality the player is, what player cards they have or where I place them on the Game Plan formation, they angle in from the halfway line and end up a few yards inside the edge of the penalty area. It's like they're all clones of Alan Hutton.

 

[Simcut]

I'm already really keen about PES 2012, althought it's far away. PES 2011 is a big step in the right direction, sure it has its issues, but its immense fun, when it works. There are quite a few problems with it, but it's still a beauty, where as FIFA 11 is a beast, and not in a good way :/ Who can find playing with any old team as if they are Barcelona, fun? :S

 

[klashman69]

Just wanted to use danyjr post here.

It's not really the whole stating PES is bad as a fact when it's his opinion which i'm replying to. Actually i broke it down to him just having problems with the game so saying it's broken and flawed makes him feel better about him not being able to master it. Doesn't sound nice, but it;s the truth:

Example:

AI is flawed, both offensive and defensive:
Offensive: players stay offside for half an hour. They don't make runs when its time. This happens so often it ain't funny, like you're 2 against 1 against a defender, so the other player, just like any other player in football should naturally make a run so the player with possession can feed him the final ball, but guess what he does? He stands where he is, and on some cases even runs back! I mean as much as its frustrating, it is actually funny sometimes to watch it, I just hope no kids watch this to learn football lessons.

Now, Player runs never bother me, reason why is i use the manual pass and as SOON as i have a full back or winger making any sort of run or starting a run, I straight away play a manual Pass ahead of him and 10/10 he runs onto it.

Has danyjr tired this? or does he want the attackers to read his exact thoughts and run telepathically exactly where he wants.

Did he know a fundamental difference between manual and normal passing is with Manual passing especially (dosen't happen in fifa mind you) players run, 'towards' the ball that's being played, where as with normal passing, they seem to wait for it.

You could argue that these players should make the runs automatically, but it's not just it will make the game a counter attack fest maybe, but what's so hard about using your ability with the manual pass?

i mean.

Goalkeepers are absolutely terrible, always punch (a lot of the times to the opponent). Act stupid on a lot of passes and shots, also GK animations suck big time.

Agreed, but they are just about bearable. I said before they are programmed well, but the animations are horrible, absolutely horrible!! I don't really understand why they are so crap, i don't

Players fail to intercept the easiest of balls/passes, and I'm not talking stretching tackles or blocks here, cause that just don't happen in PES. I'm talking -"hey Mr. Defender, would you mind blocking the ball that is slowly passing 5 centimetres from your feet?" -"meh!"

Agreed but a very MINOR bug at best and not game breaking as your putting it!

Collision detection is awful. Raped the attacker and ref says play on? Got the ball cleanly and ref says penalty? Get used to it!

Agreed, but again, not gamebreaking and no football game has had exceptional physics with collisions. Minor annoyace!

Online is...let's not even go there. Awful servers.

Tell me about it!

I'm not sure how anyone, with a sane mind can call PES a great game.

PES 5 was and still maybe is the king but it could find triple the amount of flaws compared to PES 2011. (fake shot too effective, free kick bug, range shots way too easy) Not just that it doesn't simulate half the stuff PES 2011 does. (stuck on a rail,)

And thats a fucking brilliant game!

After playing so much PES 2011, i played FIFA 08, for a moment i went back tto my favorite FIFA game in FIFA 08(very dated now, broken game but better than the crap that succeed it) I played one game, and i was close to breaking the disk!

Played the world cup game 2010, played 3 games, turned it off! What is this? Disney on Ice? How arcadey can a game get? and i actually don't mind that game, i like it, it's fun!

The game has flaws but no one flaw breaks the game for me, remember football is a frustrating game! Don't what is essential a computer game get the better of you!

 

[dannyfc2]

Not had the chance of playing it for a fortnight now and gagging to get back on it, which is a sign that it's a success in my mind where I've been apathetic over football games last few years.

Although flawed it's still a massive step in the right direction, and while not matching my enjoyment of PES5 or 3, it's up there with the others, and in a different league to PES 08, 09 & 10 which I could never stomach.

The base is there for a fantastic game, so I hope they don't try to overhaul anything next year. Only reinvention I'd like to see would be the defensive part of the game that no football game has managed to get right. Apart from that small but crucial tweaks would make a world of difference, as well as balancing the MLO and giving more depth and replayability.

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

Despite the fact this game induces monumental pes rage, PES 2011 has reached the heights of pes 3 and 5 for me although we should be further ahead(in development terms) and the game is not as complete as past pes games or polished for that matter. I am enjoying the game now more than I did 5 weeks ago it gets better and better, you learn or see something new every game which for me is the true sign of a great PES game.

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

honestly guys, u remember playing pes 3 or 4 ?

it was so free and felt clean, what u saw is what u cud do and what was there(and not more behind the surface)

on NG engine i feel there is a lot of hiding things that sometimes play u out

thats the only real issue i have with this game

 

[Northzzz]

I find of view this game as a prologue.

Nothing about the game is 'unbearable' as some have suggested but it definitely leaves me feeling underwhelmed because it feels about half as good as it could be.

Still, as of about a month and half i have had nothing pulling me back to play the game.

 

[romagnoli]

I've been playing it fairly incessantly until recently but that's solely because of how many other great games there are at the moment. I'm still completely loving the individuality, the expressiveness of the dribbling/passing compared to FIFA and the ridiculously good tactics and formation playset it gives you. Honestly the extent to which you can close the opposition's quality gap just through clever use of tactics is an absolute dream.

I keep having seriously cool moments in MLO like a recent one where Nene took on two defenders 50 yards from goal. He took his first touch across the first defender and towards the left, leaving him (Puyol I think) flat footed. Then as the other defender sprinted across Nene pulled off a classy sidestep to leave him flat on his arse, before hitting a glorious 30 yard chip. Fecker hit the crossbar and went over, but good god the whole thing looked very sexy. It's so satisfying when you get a slow but classy player to make fools out of pressure whores.

It absolutely isn't perfect, and when it's at it's worst you can question whether it's even any good, but the rest of the time it's definitely the best and most adult football game of this generation, by a long way. There's so much in it - particularly the management - that people could learn about real football just by experimenting. What they really need is an extensive guide - like a training challenge mode for tactics.

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

It's so satisfying when you get a slow but classy player to make fools out of pressure whores.

my honda is doing well

they just press and run after u like dogs, hilarious..

 

[danyjr]

Now, Player runs never bother me, reason why is i use the manual pass and as SOON as i have a full back or winger making any sort of run or starting a run, I straight away play a manual Pass ahead of him and 10/10 he runs onto it.

Has danyjr tired this? or does he want the attackers to read his exact thoughts and run telepathically exactly where he wants.

Did he know a fundamental difference between manual and normal passing is with Manual passing especially (dosen't [sic] happen in fifa mind you) players run, 'towards' the ball that's being played, where as with normal passing, they seem to wait for it.

Manual passes don't resolve the issue, since the players run after you pass. Now I'm not asking for a 'trigger run' button like the one we have in FIFA, which is abused beyond imagination. However, basic/natural behaviour of your tiny footballers are neglected by the designers. When your attackers and wingers don't make simple runs that 999 players out of 1000 in real life would (possibly with exception of Emile Heskey), that you can't blame on me or assisted passing. It is the game's fault.

You could argue that these players should make the runs automatically, but it's not just it will make the game a counter attack fest maybe, but what's so hard about using your ability with the manual pass?

Making the game a counter attack fest is not going to be a problem if the game was designed well, like the real football. However, it perhaps is a problem because of the lacklustre implementation of gameplay, hence the numerous scripting in the game trying to hide the faults. I resemble an unattractive girl putting a ton of make up to hide her ugliness. Yeah, you may bang her, but watch her come out of that shower and you'll be like 'oh maan!'

I think our friend hit the nail when regarding that issue he said:

[PES 4] was so free and felt clean, what u saw is what u cud do and what was there(and not more behind the surface)

on NG engine i feel there is a lot of hiding things that sometimes play u out

PS: Still better than FIFA though!

 

[Northzzz]

It absolutely isn't perfect, and when it's at it's worst you can question whether it's even any good, but the rest of the time it's definitely the best and most adult football game of this generation, by a long way. There's so much in it - particularly the management - that people could learn about real football just by experimenting. What they really need is an extensive guide - like a training challenge mode for tactics.

The game needs a training mode. It's a huge faux pas that they didn't include one because it's a difficult game and people are lost still when i play with them despite having like 20 games under their belt. If i didn't have PES 5/6 i doubt i'd know all the extensive things that matter past shoot, pass and tackle. It's frustrating because all i want is an even game and it just isn't going to happen. Same thing happens on FIFA though (because i make them play semi whilst i play manual) but you can see them frustrated at PES much more because they seem to have difficulty in grasping the depth of the control structure.

RE: The bit in bold. That's true but it just kind of happens like everything has lined up and you're going to have a bad experience for completely random reasons. Whenever i think of playing the game i remember some absolutely horrible game i played with my friend, Ghana v Ivory Coast. I won it but it was a truly terrible game. It's one reason i always think that i can't be bothered to play it.



Something i didn't mention a few posts back ago is that I think the game really suffers from a lack of teams. I know it's got licensing issues but it's just a case of needing variety. Taken as a whole the only teams i enjoy playing as are from Ligue 1, Eredivisie and La Liga.

- Playing with 80% of Premiership teams feels horrible because the game doesn't reflect Prem football well at all. Especially because of the physicality of the Prem and the lack of a decent collision system in the game. I only feel comfortably playing with Arsenal because you can pass the ball around like in real life and lesser prem teams like Wolves, Wigan, Birmingham because their players actually are limited in ability. Playing with or against teams like Man United, Chelsea is a no go as far as i'm concerned.
- Like the Prem, the game doesn't suit Serie A style football. The game is really built around just running forward all the time and not having to play the ball backwards. Serie A is obviously very defensive and playing the game the only way you really can isn't like serie a football for me.
- I don't really think the game works well for a lot of international teams. I can't point my finger on why though, except some being vastly out of date since the WC (i.e. England and France).

If i had a PS3 i could get a decent option file to alleviate this issue.


I also said i didn't think the game was 'unbearable' in any way but have changed my mind since because i've just remembered how shit the slide tackle system is. I'm actually convinced the game knows it's fucked up because many times i have supposedly given away a foul by taking out the last man even though i completely won the ball first and i rarely get the red card that i would deserve had it of thought i'd have taken out the last man maliciously.

 

[Northzzz]

Manual passes don't resolve the issue, since the players run after you pass. Now I'm not asking for a 'trigger run' button like the one we have in FIFA, which is abused beyond imagination. However, basic/natural behaviour of your tiny footballers are neglected by the designers. When your attackers and wingers don't make simple runs that 999 players out of 1000 in real life would (possibly with exception of Emile Heskey), that you can't blame on me or assisted passing. It is the game's fault.

In comparison FIFA is great here. I never use trigger runs because it's just lame but i have never had any real issue with players not making runs like i do in PES. If anything players make slightly too many runs after making passes in FIFA but it's way more realistic than the sheer lack of it in PES.

 

[klashman69]

- Playing with 80% of Premiership teams feels horrible because the game doesn't reflect Prem football well at all. Especially because of the physicality of the Prem and the lack of a decent collision system in the game. I only feel comfortably playing with Arsenal because you can pass the ball around like in real life and lesser prem teams like Wolves, Wigan, Birmingham because their players actually are limited in ability. Playing with or against teams like Man United, Chelsea is a no go as far as i'm concerned.

- Like the Prem, the game doesn't suit Serie A style football. The game is really built around just running forward all the time and not having to play the ball backwards. Serie A is obviously very defensive and playing the game the only way you really can isn't like serie a football for me.

- I don't really think the game works well for a lot of international teams. I can't point my finger on why though, except some being vastly out of date since the WC (i.e. England and France).

If i had a PS3 i could get a decent option file to alleviate this issue.

I feel for you man, Xbox just isn't for PES, too hard to edit, export option files etc.. your suffering from Konami's default tactics!

I'm in the middle up uploading some tactics settings from teams and yes the AI can play much, much better football than they are setup by default.

Issue i identified was Konami don't really know how Most teams in Serie A and The Premiership play so they gave them all the same tactics.

This game plays very much like Premeirship and Serie A when you set teams up properly.

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

u can play anyway u like in this game, even stock formations reflect that

pick up pharma or palermo e.g.
it might be not the exact way they play in RL but its defo serie a feel in there, diffrent than aston villa or some teams like that

or play stock japan, plays like a real 433 shud be playd
honda is doing the cruyff a'esque magic
u play with the defenders drag them out, wingers cut in u pass to them.. the whole real 433 package not just running with the ball on the wing crap
first game in pes on pc imo where u can enjoy real 433 feel

 

[dannyfc2]

Northzzz that's a very good point actually, the game forces you to play pretty, slow tempo football to be successful really. FIFA's is the opposite championing physicality and quick counter attacking football. Although the former is more enjoyable and strategic, it'd be nice to have FIFA's more limited style represented as well. Especially when you're controlling someone like Ghana where you need to be physical as the players aren't capable of possession football. It'd also add another dimension by making Targetmen more effective.

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

ehm
teams like ivory coast or ghana have already the physic bonus in the game
they win the ping pong struggling fights in the midfield more and get more rebounds
its not how a good collision/physic system shud work but the advantage is in the game
so no thats wrong too

 

[Northzzz]

Klash, i was going to buy a ps3 soon anyway. I think a decent option file could really open the game up.

 

[Northzzz]

Northzzz that's a very good point actually, the game forces you to play pretty, slow tempo football to be successful really. FIFA's is the opposite championing physicality and quick counter attacking football. Although the former is more enjoyable and strategic, it'd be nice to have FIFA's more limited style represented as well. Especially when you're controlling someone like Ghana where you need to be physical as the players aren't capable of possession football. It'd also add another dimension by making Targetmen more effective.

I agree completely. It's because FIFA models itself on Premiership football whereas to me PES models itself much more so on international football and central european leagues. So whereas Fifa models itself on physicality being a big factor PES opts for possession football.

If you're say Stoke City (or as you said, Ghana) and you're forced to play nice passing football, like the game kind of forces you to, it just feels a bit odd.

So many more European leagues that see free-flowing football as a key thing deserve to be on PES.

 

[klashman69]

Klash, i was going to buy a ps3 soon anyway. I think a decent option file could really open the game up.

To be honest i think that's the whole point and the very essence of PES. Konami gives us the tools and gameplay to do what we want really.

PES has always been like this since the beginning but especially when PES 1, 2 hit, it's always been a game which requires editing and is built to be edited.

With FIFA it's built to be played pretty much at face value

There's so much to PES 2011 when it comes to editing tactics, formations, shirts etc.. everything!

 

[romagnoli]

- Like the Prem, the game doesn't suit Serie A style football. The game is really built around just running forward all the time and not having to play the ball backwards. Serie A is obviously very defensive and playing the game the only way you really can isn't like serie a football for me.

To be fair this bit in particular is either phrased wrongly or is just wrong. Of course you can do well with defensive, conservative possession football - it's the way I usually play, with an anchorman and a DLP linking up with my SS. I rack up percentages of around 60-odd percent against all-star teams, much of that time being spent keeping the ball in the middle third, giving the ball back to D'Agostino to spray the ball to a free man. When attacking I use Nene as the next link, as someone who can pull off that tremendous through ball or take that deft little touch or keep the ball in a tight squeeze.

I'm not saying that's the only way I play, and I'm not saying I play 100% the Italian way, but you can definitely play to take your time and retain the ball, and do well with it too.

 

[Northzzz]

To be fair this bit in particular is either phrased wrongly or is just wrong. Of course you can do well with defensive, conservative possession football - it's the way I usually play, with an anchorman and a DLP linking up with my SS. I rack up percentages of around 60-odd percent against all-star teams, much of that time being spent keeping the ball in the middle third, giving the ball back to D'Agostino to spray the ball to a free man. When attacking I use Nene as the next link, as someone who can pull off that tremendous through ball or take that deft little touch or keep the ball in a tight squeeze.

I'm not saying that's the only way I play, and I'm not saying I play 100% the Italian way, but you can definitely play to take your time and retain the ball, and do well with it too.

Fair enough. I definitely enjoy playing with Serie A teams more than Premiership teams and my issue with the league isn't that big but it is still there and it could just be down to my own personal style of play.

As you highlighted you do end up passing the ball around quite a lot but from my experience and i find that it usually results in ending up passing the ball forward more often than backwards or to the side as conservative football might suggest. I sometimes find that passes are too accurate in any direction on the floor and this doesn't discourage me from passing forward in fear of losing the ball really. So from that i end up playing more attacking than defensive and i guess i don't think this style suits the Italian style.

You do get tackled pretty easily in this game too as players on the ball really struggle to hold off other players so you do end up having to pass the ball all that much more in order not to be robbed of the ball and yeah that's probably why i feel that i'm passing the ball forward all the time.

The sometimes erratic defensive system means that i'd quite like to get the ball as far away from my box as possible most of the time and this probably also means that i find it more comfortable to attack/pass forward.

 

[dannyfc2]

ehm
teams like ivory coast or ghana have already the physic bonus in the game
they win the ping pong struggling fights in the midfield more and get more rebounds
its not how a good collision/physic system shud work but the advantage is in the game
so no thats wrong too

What's that got to do with direct fast tempo'd football? Unless you hoof it towards two pushed up wingers, it ain't possible, players don't make quick enough forward runs to allow it.

And being more likely to win possession in a ping-pong situation is hardly the model of a good physical implementation. What about Targetmen holding up the ball with their back to goal?

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

What's that got to do with direct fast tempo'd football? Unless you hoof it towards two pushed up wingers, it ain't possible, players don't make quick enough forward runs to allow it.

And being more likely to win possession in a ping-pong situation is hardly the model of a good physical implementation. What about Targetmen holding up the ball with their back to goal?

u can use lets say drogba to hold up the ball, same as u can use the CMs from ghana to hold up the ball in midfield better
they win more 1v1s and defend the ball better

this is the advantage of this teams
thats nicely done in this game

if u want direct fast physique based football u can use a strong CF and fast SMFs/wingers to spam balls to them
kick n rush trial n error works in this game

and it works better with teams like ghana, higher balance values stronger overall physique

u can play anyway u like, i wrote that before..

 

[klashman69]

u can use lets say drogba to hold up the ball, same as u can use the CMs from ghana to hold up the ball in midfield better
they win more 1v1s and defend the ball better

this is the advantage of this teams
thats nicely done in this game

if u want direct fast physique based football u can use a strong CF and fast SMFs/wingers to spam balls to them
kick n rush trial n error works in this game

and it works better with teams like ghana, higher balance values stronger overall physique

u can play anyway u like, i wrote that before..

Also noticed especially in my West Brom ML that Players like Simon Tcyhaoi are more effective than proper playmakers than D'Alessandro for Lower teams. (brought him for West brom)

When you at the bottom, and when you have a squad of average players, someone like D'Alessandro who needs players around him to make runs, and work with in terms of passing. Because they aren't there West Brom and he get's barged off the ball too much. Bigger more physical players like Simon Tcyhaoi are more effective, mainly because you can get physical even with the big teams and stand your ground.

They lack the technique which balances it but at the bottom fighting relegation, you need points to survive! Pretty football doesn't win you points. Have to love this factor here! (ended up selling D'Alessandro to Bayern in January)

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

One of the things I love about this game is its up to you to make the animations and players look right by your timing and how well you control the ball etc. The gameplay of this game is deeper than any PES game before the more you play you realise this.

A tip for manual passing that is pretty obvious, the slower your momentum the easier it is to angle your manual pass, its not like fifa where you just direct the analog, PES's manual passing forces you to think angles and body position. Its makes fifa's manual passing(which is very impressive) look basic.

Offline master league and offline multiplayer are taking up many hours for me, I don't bother with online ML the only thing I use my subscription for is free boots and the odd patch. To be honest I get sick of how much coverage online gets.

 

[Pere Ubu]

I've just been playing online for the first time ever - never bothered before.

It's a mixed bag, innit? I still haven't got used to that weird woozy feel of playing online (no serious lag for me, but everything seems to happening at about 95% speed, which is just enough to be slightly disorientating) and I seem to have come up against a real cross-section of online players. So far I've played one guy who was really good, chose a Dutch team and played proper, patient passing football and beat me fair and square; two or three horrible kids with Master League teams full of world stars who just spam the through ball; one weirdo who appeared to have no idea how to play the game, and a couple of people who were kind-of-OK but seemed to have the computer on their side (dodgy ref decisions, my players slowing down, their players travelling at 100mph and just barging me off the ball all the time). It's frustrating but kind of addictive.

Anyway, is there any way to hook up with Evo-Web folk and play some proper matches - 20 minutes, nice football, mid-ranking teams, etc - other than joining PEEL (which I may try to do, but not until I've properly got the hang of online play)? Not sure how the Community thing works, cos I'm a total noob when it comes to Online. If there's any way to do this, let me know (by PM if you like, if this is old news and you don't want to clog up the thread).

 

[Northzzz]

I don't think you can use players like Drogba to hold the ball up per say.

The only real way in which i notice his physical superiority coming into play is if i'm running forward with the ball and then i can see players struggle to tackle him (the animations for this are still sub-par though so i kind of just infer that it's drogba's strength that means the other guy isn't able to steal the ball). If i'm moving slowly or am stationary then in no way do i feel that he will hold off another player.

Physicality does exist but you only notice it when you're dribbling IMO.

Can you even hold R2 to shield the ball well now? I used to do this all the time in the old PES' but i haven't played this game in a while so i can't remember.

 

[dannyfc2]

u can use lets say drogba to hold up the ball, same as u can use the CMs from ghana to hold up the ball in midfield better
they win more 1v1s and defend the ball better

this is the advantage of this teams
thats nicely done in this game

if u want direct fast physique based football u can use a strong CF and fast SMFs/wingers to spam balls to them
kick n rush trial n error works in this game

and it works better with teams like ghana, higher balance values stronger overall physique

u can play anyway u like, i wrote that before..

Balance is important, but I still feel you it's not possible as a traditional Target Man with your back to goal. If you receive the ball and stay stationary the CB will always be able to barge through you regardless.

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

thats just wrong sry

theres no need for drogba, i can do it with honda
hes winning most headers too
use of R2 with your back to their goal is a pleasure

he then goes to a kind of super control mode, shielding better vs the defener and his first touch is finer too

u can do a first touch volley or chest pass or just nothing, taking the ball(sometimes the defender jumps for header but it doesnt help him )

u can use R2 for headers, sometimes load up with shoot button(kinda more power) then press shoot to clear or pass to pass header while holding R2 all the time

maybe u saw totti playing?
what he does on receiving long high passes?
his back to their goal and the defender, stays infront of him
shields up the space from him, and takes the ball

no need for drogba types in this game
good technique players like honda can do this job too
his balance point ? is low u feel it when u control him, its nicely done

my former formation was like a 4-3-3 but no wingers instead they were SMFs, and no CF in the middle
no
honda as an SS
worked as an AMF for passes + receiver for high balls at the same time