PES 2011 Discussion thread

I won't pretend to know what that means :LOL: over my head mate.

I don't really know, it seems like most people are ok with online, but then again it does come up with some funny stuff now and again. I even did have one lag game without warning against a mate a mile up the road the other week.

Hope you get to the root of it anyway simcut, because when online works, boy is it good.
 
I have been playing the offline ML for about 2 weeks now and I am starting to see why people on here are complaining about the scripting. Infact it is so bad at times I would just call it cheating. The last 2 instances have really took the piss and from now on I am going to start recording it so I can put it on the feedback forums, because to quote Paul Merson "I ain't 'avin It".

I was drawing 1 - 1 away, nearing the end of the game and I pass to my AMF who has made a run into the 6 yard area, it is pretty much an open goal and I press shoot and he does nothing. I go into replay to see WTF has happened and it is clear to see the point I have pressed shoot because he stops his running animation, trys to go into the shooting one but all he can do is get his foot a few inches off the gound then stutters for a second and then stops.
The last one I was 1 - 0 up and in the 90 something min the CPU puts a ball into my box, the CB gets on it but the touch is really bad and he has to run to the ball, I hold down the sprint button and he does sprint until a couple of feet or so before the ball where he starts to jog which gives the CF just enough time to get the ball first and score.

I dont mind Konami trying to simulate home and away adavantage with the poor form arrows, although they went too far with it, but this blatant cheating is not on. Stopping players from preforming the inputted action to gain an advantage is cheating and it shows IMO that they realise how bad their AI but are incapable of doing anything about it.
 
Ern Dog said:
I have been playing the offline ML for about 2 weeks now and I am starting to see why people on here are complaining about the scripting. Infact it is so bad at times I would just call it cheating. The last 2 instances have really took the piss and from now on I am going to start recording it so I can put it on the feedback forums, because to quote Paul Merson "I ain't 'avin It".

I was drawing 1 - 1 away, nearing the end of the game and I pass to my AMF who has made a run into the 6 yard area, it is pretty much an open goal and I press shoot and he does nothing. I go into replay to see WTF has happened and it is clear to see the point I have pressed shoot because he stops his running animation, trys to go into the shooting one but all he can do is get his foot a few inches off the gound then stutters for a second and then stops.
The last one I was 1 - 0 up and in the 90 something min the CPU puts a ball into my box, the CB gets on it but the touch is really bad and he has to run to the ball, I hold down the sprint button and he does sprint until a couple of feet or so before the ball where he starts to jog which gives the CF just enough time to get the ball first and score.

I dont mind Konami trying to simulate home and away adavantage with the poor form arrows, although they went too far with it, but this blatant cheating is not on. Stopping players from preforming the inputted action to gain an advantage is cheating and it shows IMO that they realise how bad their AI but are incapable of doing anything about it.
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I think you're reading FAR too much into it, just seems like animation bugs to me, I think it's just coincidental with the actions being made at the time.
 
Ern Dog said:
I have been playing the offline ML for about 2 weeks now and I am starting to see why people on here are complaining about the scripting. Infact it is so bad at times I would just call it cheating. The last 2 instances have really took the piss and from now on I am going to start recording it so I can put it on the feedback forums, because to quote Paul Merson "I ain't 'avin It".

I was drawing 1 - 1 away, nearing the end of the game and I pass to my AMF who has made a run into the 6 yard area, it is pretty much an open goal and I press shoot and he does nothing. I go into replay to see WTF has happened and it is clear to see the point I have pressed shoot because he stops his running animation, trys to go into the shooting one but all he can do is get his foot a few inches off the gound then stutters for a second and then stops.
The last one I was 1 - 0 up and in the 90 something min the CPU puts a ball into my box, the CB gets on it but the touch is really bad and he has to run to the ball, I hold down the sprint button and he does sprint until a couple of feet or so before the ball where he starts to jog which gives the CF just enough time to get the ball first and score.

I dont mind Konami trying to simulate home and away adavantage with the poor form arrows, although they went too far with it, but this blatant cheating is not on. Stopping players from preforming the inputted action to gain an advantage is cheating and it shows IMO that they realise how bad their AI but are incapable of doing anything about it.
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Tom, you are creating your own conspiracy theory here. I have never seen anything like that, ever. It's just an animation glitch that has happened at a relevant time. Pure coincidence. The Ai is more than capable of beating a human user without the need for this type of rubbish.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
It's just an animation glitch that has happened at a relevant time.
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Yeah the relevant time to cheat me out of 2 points :LOL:

You are both probably right but its cathartic to come here and throw around wild accusations, after many years of PES I have learnt to suppress my anger while playing and need somewhere to vent it. I am still going to document these things though just in case.
 
Ern Dog said:
Yeah the relevant time to cheat me out of 2 points :LOL:

You are both probably right but its cathartic to come here and throw around wild accusations, after many years of PES I have learnt to suppress my anger while playing and need somewhere to vent it. I am still going to document these things though just in case.
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:LOL:

I had an instance the other day where I thought, hey you know what, this is a prime example of what some consider scripted cheating. I dont at all feel like it was, it just happened. To be fair as well, it wouldnt have happened if I hadnt made the decisions I had prior.

Anyway, group stage of the World Cup on Top Player. I'm beating Italy 1-0 with Senegal and good for it as well. I have pretty much dominated the game without being able to get a cushion goal. I attempt a stupid pass that had no chance of coming off, especially with Senegal. Italy's defence pumps the ball upfield, with the ball looking like it will go out for a goal-kick at it's right near my corner flag. My keeper automatically runs out to the left hand side of the box to clear the ball upfield. He connects with the ball, hoofs it upfield but after he has kicked the ball, his follow-through leg strikes the Italian striker. It was a nothing challenge after the ball had gone, the classic collision detection glitch. Italy are awarded a free-kick on the edge of my box. They whip in the cross, and their striker heads it home with the last touch of the game.

The game ended 1-1 and I felt absolutely robbed. But I never felt scripted cheated, it was just how it happened.

A. I shouldnt have passed it back the way I did.
B. I should have marked his striker from the FK, and also pulled all my players back.
C. I should have brought my keeper out to meet the cross.

Isnt hindsight a beautiful thing...... :CONFUSE:

The bottom-line is I was pissed off. I'd more than done enough to take all 3 points, and a collision glitch cost me the goal. But not for a second do I believe that 'collision glitch' happened to cost me the three points. Italy had 3 shots on goal to my 8. One of those hit the bar, and my keeper pulled off 2 great saves, and I mean great, to deny the other two. If there was any level of scripting, one of those would have gone in.

It is what it is. It's a funny old game...........
 
The nature of bugs and glitches in gameplay is that when they impact you like this an cost you a goal you feel like the computer decided that you should lose the game. If it happens when you're winning by two goals and the ball just goes out for a throw around the halfway line you don't notice it with anywhere near as much outrage, but it still happens.

I'm only being rational about it now because only a couple of days ago I went quietly mental at the exact same sort of thing.
 
romagnoli said:
Nice. I'm more of a left stick twiddler myself, though I do perhaps use the backheel flick-on a bit too much (it is a great way to dodge a blatant slide challenge though as you can occasionally get the ball round tackles that would have plastered you if it wasn't for that knock back). I think someone has already said they think the best animation in the game is the little fake you can do where you're stationary, press to your stronger foot side and then the opposite side quickly. I agree I think. That little drag left before slamming on the brakes and pushing off to go right (all my technical stars are left footed), all very natural and intuitive to do with the pad, so accurately performed and bloody impressive when it flummoxes someone to buy you space in the middle.

I am a massive fan of keeping as much stuff on the left stick as possible - the little shoulder drops and stutters you can do are brilliant IMO.
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I also use that technique you mention, with just the left stick (and it was me who said I liked that animation :)))), but for no apparent reason, my left-stick only dribbling has become completely ineffective recently, I was just getting raped by pressure abusers, which forced me to experiment with the feints.
 
The R2 drag-back is easily the best way to outmanoeuvre the pressure whores. It totally wrong-foots them. I circle the left stick clockwise and counter-clockwise for the 2 step-over variants, very effective, very subtle.

Has anybody else witnessed the CPU AI time-waste at the end of a game by deliberately heading towards the corner flag and shielding the ball ? I must admit, as infuriating as it is, I absolutely love it.
 
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After Jimmy using a few nice feints against me, and reading about a few on here from Rob, I tried out a few feints today. I've never used any of them before in any version of PES.

I hate some of them, I love some of them, I'll continue to experiment.
 
That Ronaldinho heel dragback fake or whatever it's called, the one where the player drags the ball behind him, feigns to flick the ball left, freezes for ages and then flicks it right, is embarrassingly slow. In fact a fair few of the tricks do look pretty clumsy against the FIFA equivalents.

Then again I guess it'd be harsh to put in FIFA's super quick and slick skill moves up against PES's defensive reaction times - I've found that if I'm heading down the wing, stop with R2 and then push off in the same direction straight away, the stop-start happens too quick to fool anyone as the defender just carries on. You have to stop, wait a second and then start again for the other guy to register that you've stopped - that way he's stopping just as you're starting again.
 
Ern Dog said:
Yeah the relevant time to cheat me out of 2 points :LOL:

You are both probably right but its cathartic to come here and throw around wild accusations, after many years of PES I have learnt to suppress my anger while playing and need somewhere to vent it. I am still going to document these things though just in case.
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I was on the wrong end of a strange incident yesterday that robbed me of two points while playing the Champions League mode. I'm Milan away at Auxerre in the group stage, it's halfway through the second half and I'm leading 1-0. Although I'm fairly comfortable Auxerre really turn up the pressure and start to create some dangerous openings, desperately looking for the equaliser. I concede a corner, the ball is whipped in. Flamini is on the penalty spot marking his man when both players collapse in a heap almost on the spot after attempting to attack the ball. Because Flamini is goal-side of his man I immediately thought he'd been bundled over and it was my free kick. But the ref awards a penalty. Even after watching the replays I couldn't see where the foul was. Sure enough Auxerre striker Jelen tucks away the penalty to make it 1-1 and I lose two points.

To many this would seem like scripting and maybe it is, but rather than start a new thread on the nearest available PES forum about how the game is irreparably broken I take it on the chin and get on with it. Next time I need to try and close out the match. Shit happens in football and I will remember the match because of this incident. Football games need a bit of controversy. It keeps things interesting.

Jimmy G-Force said:
Has anybody else witnessed the CPU AI time-waste at the end of a game by deliberately heading towards the corner flag and shielding the ball ? I must admit, as infuriating as it is, I absolutely love it.
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Yes I've noticed this. It's just another little detail that PES does well. Another nice touch is how defenders will boot the ball out of play when under pressure rather than perform the laser-guided pass to an unmarked forward, as happens all the time in Fifa. Again, I was playing as Milan vs Real Madrid in the CL mode and noticed the right-back Arbeloa take a poor touch as Madrid played the ball along their back line. I hunted Arbeloa down with Ibra, putting him under immense pressure, tracking his every twist and turn so that in the end he had no option but to knock the ball into touch. It looked so realistic.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
:LOL:

I had an instance the other day where I thought, hey you know what, this is a prime example of what some consider scripted cheating. I dont at all feel like it was, it just happened. To be fair as well, it wouldnt have happened if I hadnt made the decisions I had prior.

Anyway, group stage of the World Cup on Top Player. I'm beating Italy 1-0 with Senegal and good for it as well. I have pretty much dominated the game without being able to get a cushion goal. I attempt a stupid pass that had no chance of coming off, especially with Senegal. Italy's defence pumps the ball upfield, with the ball looking like it will go out for a goal-kick at it's right near my corner flag. My keeper automatically runs out to the left hand side of the box to clear the ball upfield. He connects with the ball, hoofs it upfield but after he has kicked the ball, his follow-through leg strikes the Italian striker. It was a nothing challenge after the ball had gone, the classic collision detection glitch. Italy are awarded a free-kick on the edge of my box. They whip in the cross, and their striker heads it home with the last touch of the game.

The game ended 1-1 and I felt absolutely robbed. But I never felt scripted cheated, it was just how it happened.

A. I shouldnt have passed it back the way I did.
B. I should have marked his striker from the FK, and also pulled all my players back.
C. I should have brought my keeper out to meet the cross.

Isnt hindsight a beautiful thing...... :CONFUSE:

The bottom-line is I was pissed off. I'd more than done enough to take all 3 points, and a collision glitch cost me the goal. But not for a second do I believe that 'collision glitch' happened to cost me the three points. Italy had 3 shots on goal to my 8. One of those hit the bar, and my keeper pulled off 2 great saves, and I mean great, to deny the other two. If there was any level of scripting, one of those would have gone in.

It is what it is. It's a funny old game...........
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Such a cop out to say that, I love the game as much as anyone but its clear as day aspects of the game are scripted. I guess your the sort of person who finds its impossible to criticise fundamentals of the game(quite sad to be honest), keep telling yourself its not scripted, its people like you seabass loves.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
:LOL:

I had an instance the other day where I thought, hey you know what, this is a prime example of what some consider scripted cheating. I dont at all feel like it was, it just happened. To be fair as well, it wouldnt have happened if I hadnt made the decisions I had prior.

Anyway, group stage of the World Cup on Top Player. I'm beating Italy 1-0 with Senegal and good for it as well. I have pretty much dominated the game without being able to get a cushion goal. I attempt a stupid pass that had no chance of coming off, especially with Senegal. Italy's defence pumps the ball upfield, with the ball looking like it will go out for a goal-kick at it's right near my corner flag. My keeper automatically runs out to the left hand side of the box to clear the ball upfield. He connects with the ball, hoofs it upfield but after he has kicked the ball, his follow-through leg strikes the Italian striker. It was a nothing challenge after the ball had gone, the classic collision detection glitch. Italy are awarded a free-kick on the edge of my box. They whip in the cross, and their striker heads it home with the last touch of the game.

The game ended 1-1 and I felt absolutely robbed. But I never felt scripted cheated, it was just how it happened.

A. I shouldnt have passed it back the way I did.
B. I should have marked his striker from the FK, and also pulled all my players back.
C. I should have brought my keeper out to meet the cross.

Isnt hindsight a beautiful thing...... :CONFUSE:

The bottom-line is I was pissed off. I'd more than done enough to take all 3 points, and a collision glitch cost me the goal. But not for a second do I believe that 'collision glitch' happened to cost me the three points. Italy had 3 shots on goal to my 8. One of those hit the bar, and my keeper pulled off 2 great saves, and I mean great, to deny the other two. If there was any level of scripting, one of those would have gone in.

It is what it is. It's a funny old game...........
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Something like that happened to me just now

fucking Millito scoring a bicycle kick in the last minute against m to make it 3-3 and they go through in the cup :TTTH:

The game cheat a lot, it's not possible for an AI in a football computer game to be smart enough to out think and out maneuver you without cheating! The tech isn't there yet.

Anyway i like how PES 2011 balances this anyway. I just laugh!

UTD-PEARSON said:
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Such a cop out to say that, I love the game as much as anyone but its clear as day aspects of the game are scripted. I guess your the sort of person who finds its impossible to criticise fundamentals of the game(quite sad to be honest), keep telling yourself its not scripted, its people like you seabass loves.
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I agree but if you think about it it has to happen! Computers can't out think humans, Computers just perform set tasks they are programmed to!
 
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Not sure about the scripting - I used to concede a few goals in the 45th and 90th minute on FIFA...and called the xbox a cheat lol. But once I learnt to hang onto the ball in the last few minutes and defend better without jumping in, they stopped scoring the last gasp winners or equalisers...funny that ;)

So as Jimmy said - and I guess it's true to real life football when you concede a dubious goal - there is always something you did to give the ball away or put yourself into that position, otherwise the "badluck" couldnt have happened!
 
klashman69 said:
The game cheat a lot, it's not possible for an AI in a football computer game to be smart enough to out think and out maneuver you without cheating! The tech isn't there yet.

Anyway i like how PES 2011 balances this anyway. I just laugh!
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That's exactly it. AI cheating, scripting - call it what you like - is a necessary evil in all sports games and always will be until the tech can deliver AI that can replicate the way a human would think and react. The AI needs a helping hand sometimes for the sake of balance.

You can either accept it and live with it in the meantime, or play Fifa, which I will fully accept is probably less scripted than PES, but the cost of that is every match feels the same.
 
Jamezinho said:
That's exactly it. AI cheating, scripting - call it what you like - is a necessary evil in all sports games and always will be until the tech can deliver AI that can replicate the way a human would think and react. The AI needs a helping hand sometimes for the sake of balance.

You can either accept it and live with it in the meantime, or play Fifa, which I will fully accept is probably less scripted than PES, but the cost of that is every match feels the same.
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FIFA is most ridiculously scripted game! The amount of carbon copy goals the CPU scored! I mean they are programmed to pass it up field and to shoot in the the same exact blade of grass all the time!

I also love how you go 3 goals up, and you NOT score anymore goals, the CPU may get one back but when the AI says that's enough, that's it!

The AI isn't balanced at all, it's just pure crap! Shortcuts to save the dreadful AI fifa demonstrates!
 
UTD-PEARSON said:
[/B]

Such a cop out to say that, I love the game as much as anyone but its clear as day aspects of the game are scripted. I guess your the sort of person who finds its impossible to criticise fundamentals of the game(quite sad to be honest), keep telling yourself its not scripted, its people like you seabass loves.
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Don't be silly. It's a stat based simulation, scripting is everywhere, it's instrumental in highlighting the variable. Cheating scripting isn't something I believe in and have never personally bore witness to. Football is a funny old game, it's randomness is what defines it's fascination, so dont expect it not to happen, because it probably will.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Don't be silly. It's a stat based simulation, scripting is everywhere, it's instrumental in highlighting the variable. Cheating scripting isn't something I believe in and have never personally bore witness to. Football Is a funny old game, it's randomness is what defines it's fascination, so dont expect it not to happen, because it probably will.
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You think I don't know this, I don't think your as clever as you think you are. Trust me I don't need anyone to explain to me what a "fuuny old game" football is, again your using this as a way to gloss over the CPU AI scripting and other flaws. In your mind I hope you don't think I am simply complaining about conceding goals etc, this is not the case I just want a game that respects stats and is less automated.

The fact you felt the need to tell someone who has played PES all their life that its a "stat based simulaton" shows there is no point in discussing this with you. Again your taking the easy route and talking as if PES is real football , KONAMI want to create the flow of a match but this is not done organically enough for me and with stats respected enough.

I love your passion for the game and have a good christmas but you need to actually look at the game as software sometimes.

Anyway I'll stop with scripting debate, like klashman said earlier in the thread when it goes my way I fist pump and jump for joy. I just think it needs to be toned down, for the record pes 2011 is my all time favourite football game so it frustrates me even more.
 
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klashman69 said:
does everyone agree with my opinion about the game has to be scripted, it just depends how the game balances it!
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I havn't played the CPU much on PES 2011 - I've played a Copa Libertadores and some exhibition matches on Top Player but I have never felt cheated.
Every goal I conceded I could look back on and see something I could have done better, so I only had myself to blame...

Also, these unrealistic late goals that seem so stupid that they must be "cheats" - just think about all the similar ones you've scored... I scored a 20 yard scissor volley with Arevalo in MLO yesterday, if the AI did that, some of you would brand it as cheating...

UTD-PEARSON said:
I don't think your as clever as you think you are.
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Oh the irony.
 
UTD-PEARSON said:
You think I don't know this, I don't think your as clever as you think you are. Trust me I don't need anyone to explain to me what a "fuuny old game" football is, again your using this as a way to gloss over the CPU AI scripting and other flaws. In your mind I hope you don't think I am simply complaining about conceding goals etc, this is not the case I just want a game that respects stats and is less automated.

The fact you felt the need to tell someone who has played PES all their life that its a "stat based simulaton" shows there is no point in discussing this with you. Again your taking the easy route and talking as if PES is real football , KONAMI want to create the flow of a match but this is not done organically enough for me and with stats respected enough.

I love your passion for the game and have a good christmas but you need to actually look at the game as software sometimes.

Anyway I'll stop with scripting debate, like klashman said earlier in the thread when it goes my way I fist pump and jump for joy. I just think it needs to be toned down, for the record pes 2011 is my all time favourite football game so it frustrates me even more.
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That is a contridiction in terms. The more influentional the statistics, the more automated the games becomes. It's the differential. The higher the stat, the more AI assistance is required to highlight the variables. That's the driver behind the semi-automatic system Konami have produced. The contrary is a fully manual, less-automated system where statistics are redundant for the most part.

I personally have never felt cheating AI, that is my opinion, if your opinion differs, then so be it. The whole area is subjective. I'll buy into the argument if you can prove to me that this cheating scripting is evident, and not coincidental, as in my initial post.

Also, these unrealistic late goals that seem so stupid that they must be "cheats" - just think about all the similar ones you've scored... I scored a 20 yard scissor volley with Arevalo in MLO yesterday, if the AI did that, some of you would brand it as cheating...
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Amen Rob.
 
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Simcut said:
I'm using UPNP (Universal Plug & Play) which automatically forwards the ports necessary for games & apps.
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Disable upnp and enable dmz on your router. Also if you're using static ip then make sure you also use the quickest dns's for you. Use dnsbench for that, for some it may make a difference but for others just slightly and some won't. If it asks you to "build custom nameserver list" then do it, then run the test after its done.

I do a test every time I go online. It won't guarantee you a flawless connection, or maybe it will, who knows. It doesn't hurt to try :)
 
What is up with the form arrows in ML? I signed 3 players in the transfer window all with a 5 for form. For the remaining 17 games of the season they all had purple arrows for every single game :CONFUSE:

The game cheating I was talking about has happened again, this is not scripting like you guys are discussing it is the game not letting my players carry out a command. This happened 3 times yesterday and while it may not be deliberate cheating it is a massive bug. I will post up a video later to see if it happens to anyone else.

Scripting is fine IMO, without it I would probably win every game and that would be boring.
 
Ern Dog said:
What is up with the form arrows in ML? I signed 3 players in the transfer window all with a 5 for form. For the remaining 17 games of the season they all had purple arrows for every single game :CONFUSE:

The game cheating I was talking about has happened again, this is not scripting like you guys are discussing it is the game not letting my players carry out a command. This happened 3 times yesterday and while it may not be deliberate cheating it is a massive bug. I will post up a video later to see if it happens to anyone else.

Scripting is fine IMO, without it I would probably win every game and that would be boring.
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Are you playing the players you signed out of their preferred positions at all?
 
Haven't done much testing with this at all but yesterday I swapped my midfield quartet with the defensive four in the ML-menu game plan setup, and for 5 games on the trot I noticed players who I've never seen with anything better than a blue or green arrow get orange or reds.

For example VDV. In all my 3 seasons of Master League, he's never even had a green arrow. And he's been pivotal to the team, and played in position. In the ML-menu, I switched him to right-back. And then in the pre-match gameplan setup, he's got a red arrow (he scored 1, made 1 in the previous match to compliment this choice). So I move him to his correct spot in the pre-match screen and away we go.

Same happened for Arshavin (signed him obviously), Hutton, Assou-Ekotto, Lennon and Modric who were constantly getting blues & greens. In this 5-game block I played, Modric got injured (yellow cross) and I subbed him. He missed the next match but returned with a green, which is acceptable.
 
Simcut said:
Are you playing the players you signed out of their preferred positions at all?
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No, I bought a LB, LMF & DMF and played them there. I have started a new season now and the 2 of them that I kept still have purple arrows for every match.
 
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