PES 2011 Discussion thread

[YoungGun_UK]

The game lacks so much fluidity which is a massive problem, its a real must, it was such a hallmark of the past PS2 versions, Their was a video a few pages back showing those lean back finishes from previous iterations and that's how fluid the game needs to be.

 

[Andy]

I have today installed a new 1.02 exe file for pc by Komu, which does wonders to the gameplay, in short no more rip off goals by the AI. After yesterday i had to do something.

Playing a league match yesterday the score was locked at o-o fair enough i wasnt taking my chances very well but i had been solid in defence. come around the 80 min mark, Bowyer for birmingham receives the ball with pace on it outside my box with his back to goal, spins on his standing leg 180 degrees and lumps the ball first time into the top corner. What a load of tosh! whats the point in players stats when konami see fit to make a mockery of realism by scoring late goals at any cost. Once again its the community left to pick up the pieces and make this game worthy. God bless Komu

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I've been playing the game post-patch and I'm really struggling, the AI seems to have been ramped up FIFA style with players hounding you in packs. It's kind of annoying, as PES was the perfect antidote to this major annoyance with FIFA. Hopefully I'll adapt and be able to work around it.

I keep changing the damn camera though, I can't decide which is best. Wide camera is the easiest I suppose, but everything's too far out, whereas Normal cam practically goes top-down, which is rubbish. Broadcast looks amazing but is harder to play. What does anyone else use?

I wish the game would include the broadcast camera it uses in the game demo that plays out when the menu screen is left for a while. It's a broadcast but 'higher' and slightly more pulled back. It's the exact camera angle you see on TV, would be perfect to be able to use properly, and still looks aweseome. It's in the game as the demo plays itself using this camera, yet bafflingly you cannot select it in-game. Really annoying.

 

[Jamezinho]

here's a conspiracy theory: sometimes i think that konami doesn't want it on purpose to create a good pes, flawless pes, because pes is a game which has to be sold every year, konami doesnt want to create another pes6 which is still played by many even after 4 years, so this is why year after year there are improvements but also annoying things in pes, like people say: "they make 1 step forward and 2 backwards".

That theory has been doing the rounds for years, especially during the golden days of PES when the game was so good that Konami could get away with removing/holding back features for future versions. However I don't believe for a second that Konami are taking that approach now. Seeing Fifa trounce PES in sales and review scores must be hurting Konami and the fact that PES is still not up to next-gen standards in some areas would hopefully mean that Seabass and his team are doing everything they can to play catch-up to Fifa (technically at least).

I keep changing the damn camera though, I can't decide which is best. Wide camera is the easiest I suppose, but everything's too far out, whereas Normal cam practically goes top-down, which is rubbish. Broadcast looks amazing but is harder to play. What does anyone else use?

Normal long. Wide is too far away for me and I prefer to be a bit closer to see some detail due to my inner graphics whore.

 

[zeemeister]

Geez I read some of these posts and wonder wtf have I been playing everyday since release.

I know there are flaws as there will always be but what about what you can do.

I have managed to play Barca-esque football or go the sit deep and look for long balls route or just try to twist and turn my way opposition inside out.

The possibilities are endless.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Ok, so what do you not get about what I wrote about lazy strikers ?*

Your just generalising with that post, I was being specific. Of course the game has other flaws, nobody disputes that, and the fact alot of people don't 'get' things, is what it is.*

This collision detection by the referees is shocking at best. It seems to be getting worse in my experience.

Ironically, i think his point is that in your mission to defend the game you yourself are generalizing, by seemingly clumping people who take issue with the game into a category of people who just "don't get it." It would be helpful if you could be more specific when saying "a lot " of people don't "get" it.

I read generalizations like these and I cringe:

Some people play and watch, others play and see.

With this can come frustrastion, and you see alot of people blame the game as an easy out. But the bottomline is, if your honest with yourself, for the most part, it's not the game at fault, it's the user.

I see no reason to think that people in this thread - mostly hardcore fans - are being anything less than honest with themselves. Sure, some people's issues with PES aren't solely the game's fault but more often than not the most popular complaints of the game are Konami's fault, no one else's.

Ball physics; overly assisted passing; player switching: goalkeeping; referees; top player being too easy; player awareness to their surroundings; animations... these make up many if not most of the criticisms of the game and they are not the user's fault but the game's.

Reading this thread I've rarely if ever come across someone's experience with the game that led me to think that they just didn't get it, much less lead me to think that, as you say, it's a "fact alot of people don't 'get' things, is what it is."

Maybe in the future you could be more specific about who or what you are referring to when you write generalizations like that, or like "some people play and watch, others play and see."

For the most part, the criticisms on here refer to the technical side of Konami's game - its gameplay engine(s) for example - so I struggle to figure out how people like myself fit into your paradigm - people who agree with Konami's version of football but who are finding the game's shortcomings a bit too many/substantial to fully endorse this year's game.

Please do tell, what complaints are valid criticisms and which ones are examples of not "getting" it, or watching instead of seeing it?

 

[Lons]

That theory has been doing the rounds for years, especially during the golden days of PES when the game was so good that Konami could get away with removing/holding back features for future versions. However I don't believe for a second that Konami are taking that approach now. Seeing Fifa trounce PES in sales and review scores must be hurting Konami and the fact that PES is still not up to next-gen standards in some areas would hopefully mean that Seabass and his team are doing everything they can to play catch-up to Fifa (technically at least).



Normal long. Wide is too far away for me and I prefer to be a bit closer to see some detail due to my inner graphics whore.

100% Agree. I'm sure Pes 2012 will catch Fifa technically in all areas. They have to make collision system, polishing existing animations and put more varied of animations.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Ironically, i think his point is that in your mission to defend the game you yourself are generalizing, by seemingly clumping people who take issue with the game into a category of people who just "don't get it." It would be helpful if you could be more specific when saying "a lot " of people don't "get" it.

I read generalizations like these and I cringe:





I see no reason to think that people in this thread - mostly hardcore fans - are being anything less than honest with themselves. Sure, some people's issues with PES aren't solely the game's fault but more often than not the most popular complaints of the game are Konami's fault, no one else's.

Ball physics; overly assisted passing; player switching: goalkeeping; referees; top player being too easy; player awareness to their surroundings; animations... these make up many if not most of the criticisms of the game and they are not the user's fault but the game's.

Reading this thread I've rarely if ever come across someone's experience with the game that led me to think that they just didn't get it, much less lead me to think that, as you say, it's a "fact alot of people don't 'get' things, is what it is."

Maybe in the future you could be more specific about who or what you are referring to when you write generalizations like that, or like "some people play and watch, others play and see."

For the most part, the criticisms on here refer to the technical side of Konami's game - its gameplay engine(s) for example - so I struggle to figure out how people like myself fit into your paradigm - people who agree with Konami's version of football but who are finding the game's shortcomings a bit too many/substantial to fully endorse this year's game.

Please do tell, what complaints are valid criticisms and which ones are examples of not "getting" it, or watching instead of seeing it?

It's funny you know, you get alot of armchair fans who think they know football, they may well know it to watch on the screen, but when it comes to the technical side, they pretty much know jack-shit. There are certain issues with PES that are widely acknowledged, and you dont need any real technical prowess to grasp these problems. Referees and collision detection is one, the player switching issue was another, the fact L2 and manual pass can clear the ball 6 miles is another. These are actual problems. The lazy striker issue isnt, it's coded. People who play football will tell you this happens in every match ever played. That was my point. Also, you state overly assisted passing ? That's a perfect example of a lack of understanding in my opinion The idiology is that in order to highlight individualism, the worlds best players have Ai assistance in order to highlight and replicate the differential skillset between themselves and lesser technically asute players. Try playing with Senegal, and you'll notice there is very little AI assistance for alot of their players with any passes attempted over 15 yards. Try Spain, and the difference is night and day.

For the record, I dont think you 'get it'. I've never read anything on these forums that has ever led me to believe you do. But that's just my opinion. For every one footballer, there are 20 armchair fans. Hence the reason Fifa sells so well. In my brutally honest opinion.

 

[Rob92]

I agree with you Jimmy on most things, even now to a degree about the players lazily getting back from offside positions. For too long in football games we've just been able to get the ball to a midfielder and almost instantly pick out a striker or winger who's on the shoulder of the last defender without fail, I think people have probably lost touch with how these situations play out in reality because of how it's been in every other football video game they've played.

Like a couple of months ago with the demo, people were complaining about not being able to hit curled shots ala PES6, giving examples of ridiculous ones where the ball curled a mile even though the player had no momentum and was directly facing the goal from 25 yards... Try shooting like that in real life and you will look stupid, it doesn't work.

I tried using controlled shots in situations that would work in reality, and guess what? I got shots with curl on them... Since then it has become natural to the point that a large proportion of my goals come from these types of shot.

I know this will sound incredibly coarse, but for it even to be a remotely close contest in your eyes (not aimed at anyone in particular) this year between PES 2011 and FIFA 11 gameplay-wise, I think you have to seriously lack an appreciation/understanding of football.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I agree with you Jimmy on most things, even now to a degree about the players lazily getting back from offside positions. For too long in football games we've just been able to get the ball to a midfielder and almost instantly pick out a striker or winger who's on the shoulder of the last defender without fail, I think people have probably lost touch with how these situations play out in reality because of how it's been in every other football video game they've played.

Like a couple of months ago with the demo, people were complaining about not being able to hit curled shots ala PES6, giving examples of ridiculous ones where the ball curled a mile even though the player had no momentum and was directly facing the goal from 25 yards... Try shooting like that in real life and you will look stupid, it doesn't work.

I tried using controlled shots in situations that would work in reality, and guess what? I got shots with curl on them... Since then it has become natural to the point that a large proportion of my goals come from these types of shot.

I know this will sound incredibly coarse, but for it even to be a remotely close contest in your eyes (not aimed at anyone in particular) this year between PES 2011 and FIFA 11 gameplay-wise, I think you have to seriously lack an appreciation/understanding of football.

Exactly Rob, and all because your opening your body to give you the correct angle. Football is all about angles. But even that passes over some peoples head, unfortunately.

Your team were lucky fackers on Saturday by the way, Leroy Lita needs shooting.

 

[sincover]

It's funny you know, you get alot of armchair fans who think they know football, they may well know it to watch on the screen, but when it comes to the technical side, they pretty much know jack-shit. There are certain issues with PES that are widely acknowledged, and you dont need any real technical prowess to grasp these problems. Referees and collision detection is one, the player switching issue was another, the fact L2 and manual pass can clear the ball 6 miles is another. These are actual problems. The lazy striker issue isnt, it's coded. People who play football will tell you this happens in every match ever played. That was my point. Also, you state overly assisted passing ? That's a perfect example of a lack of understanding in my opinion The idiology is that in order to highlight individualism, the worlds best players have Ai assistance in order to highlight and replicate the differential skillset between themselves and lesser technically asute players. Try playing with Senegal, and you'll notice there is very little AI assistance for alot of their players with any passes attempted over 15 yards. Try Spain, and the difference is night and day.

Fair enough. I agree with all that you've said here. The technical issues and the implementation of certain game mechanics are what I complain about (pretty much everything you listed above). Like I said before, at its core PES is wonderful it just needs a lot of refinement moving forward.

I also believe that if we as a community are 'loud' enough with our constructive criticisms, we can actually affect some positive change in the series.

 

[Ern Dog]

I think I have only ever seen strikers standing in an offside position looking like they have no intention of getting back on a few times. I am surprised to see people have problems with it, although seeing as I usually get dispossessed before I can pass to my forward its probably something that I would not experience often anyway .
With the defence stat of forwards soo low I would not expect to see them move backwards in a hurry, although I am not sure if that stat would have any effect on this behavior. That being said the general awareness of the AI is pretty awful anyway.

 

[Dominic]

Loved it at first, than the game started to frustrate, but gave it time,and with patience 'mastered' it and now I love it again. Probably beats the crap out of any PES game before, let alone Fifa. Patience is the key word for this game.

That and some experimenting with team style, find the style that suits your play(I was giving away so many cheaps goals until I changed some strategy settings), is the advice I give to anyone having trouble with this game.

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

I have today installed a new 1.02 exe file for pc by Komu, which does wonders to the gameplay, in short no more rip off goals by the AI. After yesterday i had to do something.

Playing a league match yesterday the score was locked at o-o fair enough i wasnt taking my chances very well but i had been solid in defence. come around the 80 min mark, Bowyer for birmingham receives the ball with pace on it outside my box with his back to goal, spins on his standing leg 180 degrees and lumps the ball first time into the top corner. What a load of tosh! whats the point in players stats when konami see fit to make a mockery of realism by scoring late goals at any cost. Once again its the community left to pick up the pieces and make this game worthy. God bless Komu

The hideous scripting is the reason I have stopped playing the game, a real shame for me personally. Even though I win a majority of offline ML games it just doesn't feel right. Very naive and insulting on konami's part to make it so noticeable(offline), its embarrassing this is the only way they can make the AI tougher, Seabass is full of shit.

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

Ignore this sorry double post.

 

[Ern Dog]

The hideous scripting is the reason I have stopped playing the game, a real shame for me personally. Even though I win a majority of offline ML games it just doesn't feel right. Very naive and insulting on konami's part to make it so noticeable(offline), its embarrassing this is the only way they can make the AI tougher, Seabass is full of shit.

What sort of things have you seen? I have only played a half season of ML offline but I never seen any scripting, also I never seen any whilst playing the demo.
What exactly do you mean by scripting? Maybe your definition is different to mine. I think of it as the cpu chucking the stats out of the window when it wants a desired outcome. There were plenty of times in PES5 when there were games that I clearly was not meant to win. Good players having terrible control, every shot going straight at the keeper, poor passing, players standing way out of position, defenders not marking & the CPU with its only shot in the game scores, these are all things I would associate with scripting.

 

[Jamezinho]

I also believe that if we as a community are 'loud' enough with our constructive criticisms, we can actually affect some positive change in the series.

I really hope the likes of Jon Murphy and others at Konami read this forum. I kind of feel like our collective voice at Evo-Web will not be heard as loudly as it should be due to the lack of an official feedback/suggestions section. I know we have the PES2012 wishlist, but will anyone from Konami ever read it?

I know that Mart has links to Konami and will get to play early code and pass on our feedback, but it would be great to have something more official on the forums because I genuinely think the members here have the most intelligent feedback to offer compared to any other PES site, official or not.

Patience is the key word for this game.

Something most kids these days don't have, unfortunately.

The hideous scripting is the reason I have stopped playing the game, a real shame for me personally. Even though I win a majority of offline ML games it just doesn't feel right. Very naive and insulting on konami's part to make it so noticeable(offline), its embarrassing this is the only way they can make the AI tougher, Seabass is full of shit.

Strange because I feel PES2011 is perhaps the least scripted PES game ever. If I concede cheap goals I generally feel it's my fault through bad tactics/play rather than the AI cheating.

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

What sort of things have you seen? I have only played a half season of ML offline but I never seen any scripting, also I never seen any whilst playing the demo.
What exactly do you mean by scripting? Maybe your definition is different to mine. I think of it as the cpu chucking the stats out of the window when it wants a desired outcome. There were plenty of times in PES5 when there were games that I clearly was not meant to win. Good players having terrible control, every shot going straight at the keeper, poor passing, players standing way out of position, defenders not marking & the CPU with its only shot in the game scores, these are all things I would associate with scripting.

- Refs are coded to give certain decisions in order to favour a particular team.

- Player switching in certain situations is coded to be ineffective in order to balance the game out and help the AI(yes I now that sounds pathetic but I know what konami are like)

- I play manual pass only, this shows you how on the rails the game still is

- Pretty much what you mentioned apart from control

- CB standing stil even though I have him selected he moves 5 yards up field in order to let the CF pass through.

- CPU is always on top form in master league at home, I know this is implemented to represent home and way but it does not work both ways and the game uses it to its advantage.

There are more things that are subtle and not everybody will notice, don't want to turn this into a massive rant. I agree with Jimmygforce about the strengths of the game but this pales into insignificance when seabass wants to play the game for us. The fundamentals in terms of gameplay are their(though not perfect) but after 6 weeks I simply can't stand to play offline ML anymore as it all feels pre determined whether I win the league or finish 4th. KONAMI have ran out of ideas to improve the AI so they took the lazy route.

 

[Ern Dog]

Strange because I feel PES2011 is perhaps the least scripted PES game ever. If I concede cheap goals I generally feel it's my fault through bad tactics/play rather than the AI cheating.

Yeah I have to agree.

Pearson I agree with what you have said but I put it down to crap AI and player switching rather than what I would see as classic PES scripting. The AI is truly appalling at times and I have seen very little evidence that player switching has changed since the patch.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I'm with Jamez, I dont see any blatent scripting, I dont think I ever have. I have played three CL's, two World Cups and an African Cup, and won zip. But never, ever, did I feel cheated by the CPU. I just got beat, fair and square by Top Player. In the Quarter Finals of my last World Cup, I equalised against Italy with Senegal on 86 minutes. Italy then scored the winner to break the Senegalese hearts in the 93rd minute. No complaints from me, I gave the ball the away, mistimed a challenge and conceded.You win some, you lose some. If I ever felt that PES cheated me in any way, that would be the end of offline play for me. No question. I just never have.

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

I'm with Jamez, I dont see any blatent scripting, I dont think I ever have. I have played three CL's, two World Cups and an African Cup, and won zip. But never, ever, did I feel cheated by the CPU. I just got beat, fair and square by Top Player. In the Quarter Finals of my last World Cup, I equalised against Italy with Senegal on 86 minutes. Italy then scored the winner to break the Senegalese hearts in the 93rd minute. No complaints from me, I gave the ball the away, mistimed a challenge and conceded.You win some, you lose some. If I ever felt that PES cheated me in any way, that would be the end of offline play for me. No question. I just never have.

Seabass did say himself there is a momentum system in the game, I just notice things at times that seem to coincidental, I know this happens all the time in real life but if the game is trying to replicate this the balance might be pushed further towards a scripted game. I just find it strange that the game feels more scripted than the last gen games. It happens both ways this is not a complaint about not being able to win. I have played offline master league for six weeks constantly maybe I need a break, PES is the sort of game that is influenced very much by your mindset and how much you concentrate on getting the basics right. Maybe teamvision accounts for certain things, I am certainly impressed by the way the AI changes formation dynamically in matches and before games and you are punished on this game for naive tactics and poor positioning. I genuinely believe the AI's actions are scripted most of the time due to konami's struggling to make the game challenging in a more organic way if that makes sense. I find it very hard to believe you could play offline ML for a prolonged period and not notice scripting.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Honestly I havent, my love affair with Konami would end very sharply if I truly felt this was the case. I have no issues getting beat, but I have massive issues with regards cheating.

I'am a big fan and believer of Teamvision though, it's forced me to change the way I play so many times I've lost count.

Momentum swings are generated massively by the Management Edit this year, and it's all the better for it.

 

[sincover]

I think that Konami's implementation of Team AI and overall strategy is brilliant, however the individual AI is what sometimes drags the experience down.

That being said, I believe that PES's 'AI' is fairly functional, especially when current day limitations are taken into account. I would like them to take it a step further though and essentially level the playing field between player and CPU; If I get penalties to passing and movement because of HOME/AWAY status, I expect the same penalties to be applied to the CPU. I expect poor CPU challenges to be penalized fairly. I expect the CPU to react to my player's animation, not my input. I expect that all these things be implemented consistently.

Little things like this will improve the experience for everyone, even if you enjoy the current iteration.

I will freely admit that I may have (unfairly?) high expectations of Konami, but I expect the best from the king.

 

[sir_poc]

Scripting is a funny issue, a lot of it is in the mind. People let in a weird goal, miss a few easy chances, then get all hot under the collar, and it affects their game to the point they lose a game they should win, and blame it on scripting. I know I've felt that way before, but I can always look back and think, well actually, I did try and dribble it out of defence instead of clear it, or something like that, generally bad play.

I even hear people on other forums I browse claim scripting online, madness. Again, and this has happened to me, I generally if i am honest with myself lose to a worse team/ player, if i got 1-0 down, enter panic mode, get all pissed off, and then nothing is bound to go right. It's easily to blame it on scripting, which for me is the lamest argument of the lot, period.

Offline the game does need to balance itself slightly, but playing pes 11, and in general the series, I've never ever seen anything that's really pissed me off to the point that I beleive I was completely cheated.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Scripting is a funny issue, a lot of it is in the mind. People let in a weird goal, miss a few easy chances, then get all hot under the collar, and it affects their game to the point they lose a game they should win, and blame it on scripting. I know I've felt that way before, but I can always look back and think, well actually, I did try and dribble it out of defence instead of clear it, or something like that, generally bad play.

I even hear people on other forums I browse claim scripting online, madness. Again, and this has happened to me, I generally if i am honest with myself lose to a worse team/ player, if i got 1-0 down, enter panic mode, get all pissed off, and then nothing is bound to go right. It's easily to blame it on scripting, which for me is the lamest argument of the lot, period.

Offline the game does need to balance itself slightly, but playing pes 11, and in general the series, I've never ever seen anything that's really pissed me off to the point that I beleive I was completely cheated.

Absolutely outstanding post, I agree 1,000,000%.

 

[Jamezinho]

Seabass did say himself there is a momentum system in the game, I just notice things at times that seem to coincidental, I know this happens all the time in real life but if the game is trying to replicate this the balance might be pushed further towards a scripted game.

I'm going to go against the grain and say that a little scripting (and I mean a little) is no bad thing. Sometimes I want to feel hard done by or as if fortune is against me. I want to concede the odd goal against the run of play, or play games where the ref is not giving decisions for me. That's football. Shit happens. Sometimes the AI needs a little helping hand to recreate the frustrations of the real game.

As you said, Seabass admitted himself that PES is programmed in such a way that it may feel scripted. Perhaps that's just part of the PES magic and what gives the game feeling. But I certainly don't feel that PES2011 is overly scripted. At all.

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

I wonder how many people who say the game is not overly scripted spend their time raping online play and are not dedicated to Offline ML like myself(online gaming only interests me for dlc). I know a football game would not function without scripting and don't argue that, I know this sounds smug but I have won everything their is to win playing with manual only which is no easy feat I just think the default passing is too automated so this is the reason I play like this. The point I am making is you don't have as much control as you think, the game relies on automation and in trying to be too clever KONAMI have fucked up slightly. A game can try and be so random that it's randomness is predictable, I was playing the other day and was astounded at how the AI plays very like the AI in fifa 11, a bad thing imo.
Part of me thinks this is the best sim ever made and huge part of me feels like a mug for even placing the disc in the xbox due to the constant shit konami talk up each year, the fact the refs are worse than they were 5-6 years ago speaks volumes to me about what konami are prepared to do to make the game that bit harder. I have never seen the AI sent off for 2 bookings in over 500 games, you really think konami don't know about this they made it this way on purpose which is a fucking travesty.

I agree that some of the scripting you "feel" is in your mind, I know for a fact I have blamed the game many a time when its my fault, I am just looking at basics from what I have experienced in playing the game constantly for a few weeks. Patience is a virtue in pes, its just a shame I feel like I am controlling a film that revolves around balancing acts to a make up for slightly embarrassing programming and poor AI.

Like jamezinho touched on, parts of the pes magic stems from this scripting and how well the game creates the feel of a football match, I can't wait to see people who have not yet started a ML offline you will be gobsmacked at how bad it can get even if you won't admit it, if you rely on the heavily automated(or stat based) crossing and passing you will find the game pretty easy as you can move the ball around the pitch on auto pilot, this is what I feel anyway.

 

[sir_poc]

This year is the first I have ever played any sort of game online, offline master league is usually all i ever play.

I've personally never felt I'm particuality restricted. I've played a lot of FIFA, and a lot of PES, and personally I feel the AI's couldn't be further from each other. In PES, this year as well playing offline master league as Pompey, the CPU has scored many goals against me, different every time. From down the wings, through balls, corners, volleys etc.

I love FIFA a lot to, but for different reasons (theres nothing like a good fully manual game with a mate of mine) but i personally find the AI terrible. Most goals you let in will feel and look the same, i think in the first week of the game doing manager mode, 80% of goals I let in were headers, and the AI being unplayable unpredictable.

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

This year is the first I have ever played any sort of game online, offline master league is usually all i ever play.

I've personally never felt I'm particuality restricted. I've played a lot of FIFA, and a lot of PES, and personally I feel the AI's couldn't be further from each other. In PES, this year as well playing offline master league as Pompey, the CPU has scored many goals against me, different every time. From down the wings, through balls, corners, volleys etc.

I love FIFA a lot to, but for different reasons (theres nothing like a good fully manual game with a mate of mine) but i personally find the AI terrible. Most goals you let in will feel and look the same, i think in the first week of the game doing manager mode, 80% of goals I let in were headers, and the AI being unplayable unpredictable.

I can't stand fifa to be honest, manual play in that game eventually takes away from individuality, every team in fifa plays the same in CM. I concede very few goals in pes, and almost every single one comes from something dodgy. human v human all manual fifa games are good as the ball does feel like a separate entity. All manual is the only way to play fifa imo if you want something that feels like a sim but it does wear thin.

 

[sir_poc]

How do you mean 'something dodgy'? when you concede goals. What kind of scripting or however you want to describe it are you pointing to?

I go to fratton park to watch pompey, we let in dodgy goals all the time, but it's mainly because we are shit, and shit players do stupid stuff. In fact good players do stupid stuff to, I think in general PES has a good balance of this. I want my defenders to feel like there's a mistake in them to be honest.

Or do you mean condeeding goals due to bad game mechanics along those lines? I can literally count those goals on one hand in PES over the years (the odd crazy glitch in the game). I'm not being sarcastic, I am just wondering what am I missing here?