PES 2011 Discussion thread

lancers said:
This doesn't belong here but what the hey. I understand giving 2022 to Qatar to promote football in the Mideast but England hasn't hosted a Cup since 1966? WTF.
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Please stay on topic. There's a thread for this talk in the Football section.
 
PES 2011 HATE POST:
(Things I don't like while playing PES 2011)

- Bad Goalkeepers: often they just stand still and do not jump, in random situations they don't run out and just look stupid

- Scoring Goals: is often way too easy, even on top-player, especially headers after crosses are very easy to score, even after the 1.02 update

- Dribbling Animations: dribbling with a player doesn't feel good, actually it looks bad and unpolished, players don't touch the ball cleanly, it looks like they have super-glue on their shoes, the steps of the dribbling player look like the player will stumble over the ball any further step

- Same Animations: the animations of the player who falls on the ground after a sliding tackle alway looks the same, it always looks like gliding on the grass

- Referee: is often too petty-minded, smallest contact gets a whistle, maybe the game mechanics really see a foul but then the tackling animations should look more rough

- Replays: replays after every single insignificant foul are simply annoying, replays of the goals are simply bad, they are too close-up and chose wrong focus

- Camera: game camera is bad, even wide camera is to close for my liking, fortunately there are camera tools, but camera should be adjustable in the game and not only with an external tool made by a fan, the "free camera" in the replays is very bad, the new custom angle is just bad and doesn't feel intuitive

- Pass Strength: the pass strength is uneven, in the defence you have to hold passing button to the maximum so that the ball is played to the player you want, in some parts of the middlefield on the other hand a smallest touch on the button sends the ball a long way

- Stumbling Players: after a lost duel players always stumble and are unselectable for the next couple of seconds, this feature is implemented badly



This is it for now, I just came up with all this after playing couple of matches few minutes ago. I play on pc, I find fifa 11 on pc boring so I choose to play pes 2011. I'm not that kind of a gamer who is looking for flaws in the game to criticize it but pes 2011 has so many flaws, they are hard to ignore. This sounds naive but I hope konami sees this and makes it better in the future.
 
:LMAO: This game is too easy, You may want to read this twice just so it sinks in but my 4 year old Nephew is playing this on top player and has scored a 30 yard Volley with Berbatov and is leading against Arsenal 1-0 at half time.
 
For me this game is just pure gold, it keeps getting better and better. Dribbling, shooting, passing: it's just phenomenal. So, so enjoyable.
 
This game is well worth the $60 I paid. I really hope KONAMI improve lag though, because I have different ways of playing online and offline. Not a deal breaker since almost all PEEL members have great connections, but at least online play has improved considerably since PES 2010.
 
I used to take the piss in the last couple of years, when I played FIFA, when people went on about PES having "soul" and/or other vague indescribable qualities, but this year I can see what they meant...

Something as simple as a through ball followed by a neat side-footed finish feels delightful in PES, whereas the exact same thing in FIFA (even on manual) just feels mechanical and boring, even though they look almost identical.

Why? I don't know...

Also agree with the last two posts, the game is still growing on me, even though I was immediately impressed with it from the first play of the demo!
 
Steekbal said:
For me this game is just pure gold, it keeps getting better and better. Dribbling, shooting, passing: it's just phenomenal. So, so enjoyable.
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Agreed. Even though I've essentially been playing the game since August I still love it. I keep seeing new types of goals, flicks, etc, and that satisfaction of scoring is still there.

This is what PES is all about.
 
Rob92 said:
I used to take the piss in the last couple of years, when I played FIFA, when people went on about PES having "soul" and/or other vague indescribable qualities, but this year I can see what they meant...
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This. I always used to rage whenever I saw Jimmy type along those lines last year as I just couldn't get into or click with the game.

But now I'm the one that tries and fails to explain why it's better than FIFA to mates. Cause on the surface, it doesn't actually look that great, graphics wise it's fine obviously but to the untrained eye it looks a bit disjointed and clunky in comparison to FIFA. It's not until you get into it that you see past it and actually understand why it plays so much better and yields more satisfaction.

I've noticed most of my FIFA mates just generally don't play football games much anymore anyway, while I generally go a few days off maximum with PES, usually after a bad patch of form where I swear never to return but still always inevitably do.


However I wish there was a more direct way to give feedback to Konami. I reckon MLO has so much untapped potential at the moment, and despite PESFan there's no real official forum where you know they'd take ideas on board. Although that might be a good thing as well as they'd get bombarded by 12 year olds demanding cheaper C.Ronaldos and more boots variety :CONFUSE:
 
Rob92 said:
I used to take the piss in the last couple of years, when I played FIFA, when people went on about PES having "soul" and/or other vague indescribable qualities, but this year I can see what they meant...

Something as simple as a through ball followed by a neat side-footed finish feels delightful in PES, whereas the exact same thing in FIFA (even on manual) just feels mechanical and boring, even though they look almost identical.

Why? I don't know...

Also agree with the last two posts, the game is still growing on me, even though I was immediately impressed with it from the first play of the demo!
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I have the same feeling and it is really unexplainable and I do enjoy pes 2011 a lot this year, nevertheless things from my hate post should be looked at by konami for the next version of the game.
 
dannyfc2 said:
This. I always used to rage whenever I saw Jimmy type along those lines last year as I just couldn't get into or click with the game.

But now I'm the one that tries and fails to explain why it's better than FIFA to mates. Cause on the surface, it doesn't actually look that great, graphics wise it's fine obviously but to the untrained eye it looks a bit disjointed and clunky in comparison to FIFA. It's not until you get into it that you see past it and actually understand why it plays so much better and yields more satisfaction.

I've noticed most of my FIFA mates just generally don't play football games much anymore anyway, while I generally go a few days off maximum with PES, usually after a bad patch of form where I swear never to return but still always inevitably do.


However I wish there was a more direct way to give feedback to Konami. I reckon MLO has so much untapped potential at the moment, and despite PESFan there's no real official forum where you know they'd take ideas on board. Although that might be a good thing as well as they'd get bombarded by 12 year olds demanding cheaper C.Ronaldos and more boots variety :CONFUSE:
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maybe it is the tactically realistic baheaviour of the players on the pitch, player positioning in pes is way better then in fifa, when i watched barca vs real i looked how the players are positioned on the field and pes really comes close to this picture, fifa on the other hand not at all, i find fifa extremely boring.
 
Yeah I'd agree that off the ball runs are a bit more subtle and realistic, although still a tad infrequent for my liking. Makes you have to really pick out and time a pass in the final third, while with FIFA it's more press the run button then the pass button directly after for it to connect.
 
dannyfc2 said:
Yeah I'd agree that off the ball runs are a bit more subtle and realistic, although still a tad infrequent for my liking. Makes you have to really pick out and time a pass in the final third, while with FIFA it's more press the run button then the pass button directly after for it to connect.
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I just hope to god that PES doesn't copy Fifa's run prompt button, one of the worst things about Fifa in my opinion.

The AI in PES2012 will need tweaking so that team-mates make more frequent and intelligent runs. But that's all.
 
I think a kind of "help me out" button, where nearby teammates come to you to offer you an outlet may be good - I think Gab mentioned it a few weeks ago.

A full on "make a forward run" button would be horrible though, really wouldn't want that...
 
For me it's all about replicating the fundementals, applying the very same techniques from the real game to it's video game counterpart. Thats the clever stuff. When I'm on my game in real-life, or on PES, it's because I'm putting it altogether. You can play PES, and then you can really play PES. I'm at my best when I'm putting all the relevant techniques together. When I'm thinking and concentrating on every aspect. From ensuring a great touch, applying relevance of body posture, the understanding of each players strengths and weaknesses, and the creating of technically sound angles. If I fall down in any of the aformentioned area's, my overall game suffers as a consequence. When I get it all right, I can create beautiful music on the pitch.

With this can come frustrastion, and you see alot of people blame the game as an easy out. But the bottomline is, if your honest with yourself, for the most part, it's not the game at fault, it's the user. Konami dont make it easy, but what they do is put all the variables out there, and give the user the opportunity to put it altogether. That's football.

Composure and awareness are two massive skills within the real game, and replicated very well in PES. I was playing last night for a good 4-5 hours, and this offside issue that we debated the other day popped up so many times. And the more I saw it, the more it rubberstamped my theory on how clever this replication is.

Anybody that has played football, whether it be at grass roots level up to Professional, will testify to how this scenario happens day in day out. I played as a CF for about 15 years before I dropped back to my favoured AMF role Semi-Professionally. As a striker, you make so many runs off the ball, alot of the time, those unselfish runs bear no fruit. An inaccurate pass leading to an interception from your opponents, generally initiates a counter-attack. As a striker, after making a 50 yard run, the last thing on your mind is to sprint back onside immediately. The emphasis is always on the defence to push up and clear their lines. As a striker,what you tend to do is amble back whilst you get your breath back, there is no real urgency to make sure your ahead of the CB due to the fact your opponents are on the attack. It's only when you team intercepts the ball that all of a sudden that urgency then becomes paramount, as it's then, your 'cheating' (which is the term used in football by the players, it's relevance is that your 'cheating' your team-mates by not getting back) becomes apparent, as your still offside and not in a position to receive the ball. In hindsight, you know only too well that you should have got back onside after your teams initial move broke down, but, for the most part, you generally get away with it as you 'amble' back onside, to the safe haven of the half-way line, whilst your opponents are still on the attack. Thats how it works, thats's how it's always worked, and any striker will tell you exactly the same thing.

I noticed alot last night, when my striker was a mile offside, it was because of exactly this scenario. They had made a run, the move broke down, my opponents started to attack, and then I intercepted, broke up play, only to find my strikers hadnt made it back. This is where in real-life and PES, awareness and composure comes into play. Your instinct is to pass the ball forward, as obviously your striker 'looks' to be in a great position. This is what I was trying to get at the other day. If you pass the ball to him when he is offside, guess what, thats a lack of composure and awareness on your part. Dont blame the game. You dont force play, you improvise around the situation, thats the essence of football.

I much prefer this system to be in place, it's very realistic. It forces you to think, and at the same time, it doesnt promote passes going forward, forward, forward, forward. You have to commend the theory, because only Konami demonstrate this level of understanding and delve this deep. I would like to see a little more player individuality in this regard. For example, lazy strikers taking more time to get onside, where as more industrious team players, break their neck to get back onside as early as possible, and as soon as the move breaks down. That would be my only suggestion. As it is at present, it really is simulating how the real game is in this regard. But like I said before, some people play and watch, others play and see.
 
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The game really does make you think - if you give in to your instincts and play the tempting through ball forwards all the time, you could still score goals, but usually biding your time, stretching the play and then finding your playmaker in space in the middle to create something will yield better results.

The age old football video game goal of;
One-two - Through ball - Sprint 40 yards - Finish
Although possible, is not the most common or effective way to score, which is fantastic :).
 
Rob92 said:
The game really does make you think - if you give in to your instincts and play the tempting through ball forwards all the time, you could still score goals, but usually biding your time, stretching the play and then finding your playmaker in space in the middle to create something will yield better results.

The age old football video game goal of;
One-two - Through ball - Sprint 40 yards - Finish
Although possible, is not the most common or effective way to score, which is fantastic :).
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The game itself Rob rewards taking that extra controlled touch, and having a look at your options. As opposed to, first time passes continuously. That extra time creates more options as the AI move off the ball. A slower, considered pace incorporating passes back, and to the side, is what opens up so many avenues to work down. That's genius in itself. Alot of people who are acustom to a pick up and play game will find this frustrating and 'broken'. It's anything but. I dont expect everyone to get this though, as it requires a level of technical footballing astuteness to fully grasp the idiology. And for me, thats where footballers and gamers differ.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
The game itself Rob rewards taking that extra controlled touch, and having a look at your options. As opposed to, first time passes continuously. That extra time creates more options as the AI move off the ball. A slower, considered pace incorporating passes back, and to the side, is what opens up so many avenues to work down. That's genius in itself. Alot of people who are acustom to a pick up and play game will find this frustrating and 'broken'. It's anything but. I dont expect everyone to get this though, as it requires a level of technical footballing astuteness to fully grasp the idiology. And for me, thats where footballers and gamers differ.
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Hit the nail on the head there.

It's why nobody will ever be happy with a football game. Gamers will always be pissed off and they'll post messages like 'omgzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Ronaldo missed 4 1-on-1's against a super keeper'. The footballers here will think, I've played in games like that, it reminds me of 'when....etc'. And you think hey, this isn't working today, lets try something different. The gamers will post the game is scripted, and not quite get 'that's football' They play games, they want to win, they want to dominate. That's actually the idea behind computer games, I kind of get it, although I rarely play any games myself apart from PES and FIFA over the last few years.

If you are prepared to open up your mind to PES, and knock it around, have more of a tactic than 1-2 sprint score as Rob summed it up so well, then a lot of the frustrations will dissapear, as then when your one and only tactic doesn't work, you won't neccesarily declare the game 'broken' or declare internet war on konami.
 
I think 'some' of you are glossing over a lot of real problems in the game under the guise that casual gamers 'don't get it'. For sure, there are people that don't like playing a slower tactical game, and ultimately Fifa is the game for them. However, I think you are missing the point of a lot of the complaints (especially on this board). When someone like me who really enjoys the slow pace and the breadth of tactical/strategic options of PES complains about improving the collision models or making tackling more consistent, it is disappointing to hear people say that I "just don't get it" or don't have a "football brain".

'Football brain' or not, the mechanics of the game should be solid and consistent, because anything less causes frustration. I love the idea and concept of PES, but for the most part dislike the implementation of its mechanics.

I've now played over 300 (mostly 10 minute/half) games and spent nearly 100 hrs with this game. I'm still not an expert, but I would like to think that my criticisms have some validity. Instead of dismissing this comment by saying that I may need to raise my level of 'footballing astuteness', how about actually having an intelligent discussion about why you disagree with my concerns about the game's mechanics.
 
I don't think the game is perfect at all, lots of faults. I can't speak for anyone else, but I was merely making the point that I personally beleive the majority of complaints about the game are due to people expecting to play it in a certain way, and then being left frustrated when their idea of how a computer game should work, doesn't.

I personally enjoy the game as it is, and the major problem I had with how this version of PES was put together would of been cursor changing, which thankfully thanks to the patch is now back in reasonable working order. There are a lot of stupid things in PES still, like refs, seemingly random decisions on fouls and cards, etc, we all know the list, and we'll probably mostly agree on it.

But underneath all that, you really do have a lot of freedom to play football in so many ways. Whether or not anyone thinks I'm trying to wind people up, I'm not. You can, and I really enjoy it at the best of times.

We know with Komami (well anyone whos played PES from the start) it'll never be free of problems, as they give us something usually superb, and take then something we liked away, but hey, that's how it is.

In general, the amount of variety I can have with PES 11 means I have great fun, whether others do or not, is up to them. If they don't to be honest, I don't know why anyone would continue playing it ( I quit PES 09 very early on for this reason) let alone go out of their way to moan on the internet about something they don't like, that really has very little impact on anyones life.
 
you dont need to play 100 hours to see that the game has flaws, i play one match (15 min, top-player) and i can see almost all the flaws because they are not rare, they come up in every game. these flaws are not gameplay breaking but without these flaws pes would be simply a much better game. i think the critic points i mentioned in this post are not new and everyone has seen them and it would be great if konami would make the game more polished for the next year. they took a big step forward this year so maybe they didnt have enough time to polish it up.

here's a conspiracy theory: sometimes i think that konami doesn't want it on purpose to create a good pes, flawless pes, because pes is a game which has to be sold every year, konami doesnt want to create another pes6 which is still played by many even after 4 years, so this is why year after year there are improvements but also annoying things in pes, like people say: "they make 1 step forward and 2 backwards".
 
sincover said:
I think 'some' of you are glossing over a lot of real problems in the game under the guise that casual gamers 'don't get it'. For sure, there are people that don't like playing a slower tactical game, and ultimately Fifa is the game for them. However, I think you are missing the point of a lot of the complaints (especially on this board). When someone like me who really enjoys the slow pace and the breadth of tactical/strategic options of PES complains about improving the collision models or making tackling more consistent, it is disappointing to hear people say that I "just don't get it" or don't have a "football brain".

'Football brain' or not, the mechanics of the game should be solid and consistent, because anything less causes frustration. I love the idea and concept of PES, but for the most part dislike the implementation of its mechanics.

I've now played over 300 (mostly 10 minute/half) games and spent nearly 100 hrs with this game. I'm still not an expert, but I would like to think that my criticisms have some validity. Instead of dismissing this comment by saying that I may need to raise my level of 'footballing astuteness', how about actually having an intelligent discussion about why you disagree with my concerns about the game's mechanics.
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Ok, so what do you not get about what I wrote about lazy strikers ?

Your just generalising with that post, I was being specific. Of course the game has other flaws, nobody disputes that, and the fact alot of people don't 'get' things, is what it is.

This collision detection by the referees is shocking at best. It seems to be getting worse in my experience.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Ok, so what do you not get about what I wrote about lazy strikers ?

Your just generalising with that post, I was being specific. Of course the game has other flaws, nobody disputes that, and the fact alot of people don't 'get' things, is what it is.

This collision detection by the referees is shocking at best. It seems to be getting worse in my experience.
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Jim, I'm not referring to any specific post, I just get the impression that criticism (constructive or otherwise) is generally unwelcome.

It certainly isn't helped by telling folks that they just weren't lucky enough to be bestowed with a footballer's brain. I know that I am probably being unfair in this generalization, but that's how I feel.

The Wish List thread is a great example of good, constructive criticism. As a matter of fact, I find that statements like 'OMG Konami sux my striker should score a double hattrick!!!11' are very rare on this board. (it's a whole different ballgame on pesfan and wenb though).
 
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