PES 2011 Discussion thread

[Jimmy G-Force]

He hasn't talked waffle at all. PES may aim to represent a hell of a lot of aspects of football but that doesn't mean it gets them unquestionably right.

You don't half piss me off sometimes. I thought you said you loved intelligent debate and discussion - why toss around this misguided "I've been playing football for 20 years so I know what I'm talking about" BS? It's embarrassing.

As for your offside post - I thought that's what we all agreed Konami were intending to replicate. The problem was that they weren't doing a good enough job of it for the reasons we mentioned, particularly when placed in the same game as the current pressuring, passing, stamina and fullback awareness systems.

I couldn't give two shits what embarrasses you, I've think I have proven on the odd occasion I know what I'm talking about technically and playing football all my life at a decent level has given me that understanding whether you like it or not. If you have anymore issues just mail me.

 

[romagnoli]

On the odd occasion, yes. But certainly not enough to warrant this pissy, childish attitude towards people who don't have their tongue up the game's arse and aren't likely to join your website any time soon.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

On the odd occasion, yes. But certainly not enough to warrant this pissy, childish attitude towards people who don't have their tongue up the game's arse and aren't likely to join your website any time soon.

Grow up, you really piss me off sometimes. But you know what, I keep it to myself Rom. You want to talk technical football and not gaming. Let's see what you know. I'm curious pal. And it's not my website, stop being a pedantic child. Your only too quick to use my knowledge when it suits you and when you want to impress your Canadian developers. I tell it how it is and I back it up. Some get it, some don't. I see the technical flaws like everybody else, so don't come that fanboy shit just because it took you so long so open your eyes. You really can act like a big kid at times. And like I have said, you got a problem mail me and keep this thread relative.

 

[Ern Dog]

The more I play online against random people the more I think that making the players body position relevant to the pass or shot is a waste of time. I dont recall seeing many passes go astray or shots that fly off in wild directions because people "dont get it". Although the incredibly simple play, one dimensional tactics and star players that the majority of people use may be the reason for this.
I do think though that the game is too assisted and I am starting to see why it gets critcism from the FIFA manual players. If Konami are going to stick with this stats assisted philosophy I think that they need to go further in rewarding/punishing correct/incorrect body positioning and power applied to shooting and passing. Ii have scored a few goals where there finish is nothing like what I have attempted and this takes away all the satisfaction of scoring.

 

[Andy]

Hey lads forgive me for being an old fool but is it still possible to change my formation during a match, as i cant seem to change mine, only strategy and team style. I ASSumed that it had been taken out, but i must be wrong right?

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

The more I play online against random people the more I think that making the players body position relevant to the pass or shot is a waste of time. I dont recall seeing many passes go astray or shots that fly off in wild directions because people "dont get it". Although the incredibly simple play, one dimensional tactics and star players that the majority of people use may be the reason for this.
I do think though that the game is too assisted and I am starting to see why it gets critcism from the FIFA manual players. If Konami are going to stick with this stats assisted philosophy I think that they need to go further in rewarding/punishing correct/incorrect body positioning and power applied to shooting and passing. Ii have scored a few goals where there finish is nothing like what I have attempted and this takes away all the satisfaction of scoring.

FIFA Manual has no stats, it's twenty two almost identical players. Different concept entirely. A nice alternate to the concept PES offers. Body posture is less relevant the higher up the food chain you because players have superb first and second touches and their level of technique is so high, as us their passing stats.

Buzz, I think you can set an alternate formation in the stategy and on the fly tactics screen. You just use a formation that you have preset and tag it to a face button like you would a tactic. At least you could in PES 10, not tried it on PES 11 yet.

I was talking about the penalty by the way, couldn't see on the goals video clearly on 3G for some reason, need to watch that on laptop.

 

[Ern Dog]

FIFA Manual has no stats, it's twenty two almost identical players.

Not so sure about that Jimmy. I think it was the case upto FIFA10 but what I have played of FIFA11 it seems that manual is stat dependant.

 

[romagnoli]

Grow up, you really piss me off sometimes. But you know what, I keep it to myself Rom. You want to talk technical football and not gaming. Let's see what you know. I'm curious pal. And it's not my website, stop being a pedantic child. Your only too quick to use my knowledge when it suits you and when you want to impress your Canadian developers. I tell it how it is and I back it up. Some get it, some don't. I see the technical flaws like everybody else, so don't come that fanboy shit just because it took you so long so open your eyes. You really can act like a big kid at times. And like I have said, you got a problem mail me and keep this thread relative.

That 'fanboy shit' is your bread and butter Jim and you know it - everyone knows it. You've got it written by your avatar, FFS. The posts you make come with a pinch of salt already sacheted up and ready. If anything it's charming that you're now refuting it.

The reason I say so is because sometimes you need bloody telling, eg when you're shouting down or dismissing people like max who are perfectly reasonable and articulate. The dig you had at him not too long ago when he talked about the volleying/overhead kick issue - a point he was perfectly entitled to make even if he was late to the party - was bloody poor show for someone in his late thirties.

Irrefutably you do have some technical knowledge and certainly enjoy explaining in detail why one area or another represents footballing considerations. It would be nice to see you use some of that in the way we use our technical knowledge, to suggest where some of the shortcomings could improve and exactly how - instead of just eulogising about what IS there you could be joining us in saying what isn't so we can try and communicate that with Konami. But trying to use it to slap down any thoughts or opinions others have about whether one of these technical aspects of football has been represented accurately is lazy at best and arrogant at worst. Remember how I explained to you why more freedom to choose the direction of pass is still simulating football? I imagine if Max had brought that up (which is well within his capabilities) and you had been on rag week at the time that you would have slapped that down with this sort of nonsense too...

 

[Steekbal]

Not so sure about that Jimmy. I think it was the case upto FIFA10 but what I have played of FIFA11 it seems that manual is stat dependant.

It is stat dependant, to the point where the tag 'manual' has become more or less redundant. The long passing is assisted as hell, and the ground passing is so slow it's become near impossible to quickly move the ball around unless you play assisted without passing power assistance turned on.

I much prefer the manual passing in PES after absolutely hammering FIFA 08/09/10 with manual controls.

 

[Andy]

Buzz, I think you can set an alternate formation in the stategy and on the fly tactics screen. You just use a formation that you have preset and tag it to a face button like you would a tactic. At least you could in PES 10, not tried it on PES 11 yet.

I was talking about the penalty by the way, couldn't see on the goals video clearly on 3G for some reason, need to watch that on laptop.

Thanx for that jim, i may start to learn this game properly now that my editing quest for perfection is finally over. this game is forcing me to really look at the options more than ever before, i feel like such a noob!

Yeah Bud i know you meant the Pen, it just made me lol the way it came out.

 

[Simcut]

I think a kind of "help me out" button, where nearby teammates come to you to offer you an outlet may be good - I think Gab mentioned it a few weeks ago.

A full on "make a forward run" button would be horrible though, really wouldn't want that...

Yeah, if Konami are going to implement a button, make it so that it tells the CPU to approach your controlled player asking for the ball, or alternatively making a darting run to pass to. Would be great if they made it so it alternates that way.

 

[Ern Dog]

WARNING: much nerdy tactical talk in this post.....

The AIs inability to out fox you tactically has always been a problem in PES and now we are past the PS2 days it really shouldnt be. In PES5 it was acceptable to be playing Man UTD and be 2 nil up and have them play with 4 strikers for the last 20 mins. Now this just shows how out of date their AI is and the AI in general is one of the biggest problems in the game, its far from being good enough. The AI should be taking massive strides now from year to year after they have pretty much got the bulk of the gameplay stuff done. Surely it cant be that difficult to have a real time stats system in place that will tell the AI which of your players are most effective and then it can choose from some preset methods to counter them.
Actually with EA being soo far techinically advanced as people will have you believe I am surprised they havnt got some sort of "Opposing Team Mananger Pro" gimmick in place.

If I'm playing a dangerous team, I'll set up in a way designed to counter them, and I can dominate the game in a very realistic way. This was unthinkable in pretty much all previous football games - you might have dominated the game, but (even in PES5) it wouldn't necessarily have been a direct reflection of your tactics.

I dont agree with this. I always used to set my teams up in PES5 to counter the bigger domestic teams in the league & cup and the European giants in the CL, and I knew that what I had done was the reason I would comfortably win some games. I remember playing Madrid in a CL QF and playing the away leg first, I set up to nullify their threats and try and get a goal through keeping possession. I beat them 1 - 2 and it could have been a hammering, I dominated possession and goal chances. Because of this I got lazy and when I played my home leg, I didnt do anything to my formation and at half time I was 0 - 4 down! The players who I had set up to stop in the away game were running things and when I made the necessary changes in the 2nd half they were again made to be harmless and I managed to boss the game again but only got 1 goal.
I think one of the things that kept me playing PES5 for soo long was that once I had figured out how the stats affected the players and how the formation options worked there was alot of scope for making teams work in certain ways and creating player partnerships.
I dont think that all the team style sliders and management options in PES2011 are as amazing as people think. They may be quick and easy to use but I feel that the old way of doing things was not far off being as effective if you knew what you were doing and knew your players. Having your team preform some things as a unit is good but I feel that there has been some sacrifice of individual AI to get there. I would much rather have the old system back of attack arrows and defense levels as I believe I had greater control over my players and team as a whole with them.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

That 'fanboy shit' is your bread and butter Jim and you know it - everyone knows it. You've got it written by your avatar, FFS. The posts you make come with a pinch of salt already sacheted up and ready. If anything it's charming that you're now refuting it.

The reason I say so is because sometimes you need bloody telling, eg when you're shouting down or dismissing people like max who are perfectly reasonable and articulate. The dig you had at him not too long ago when he talked about the volleying/overhead kick issue - a point he was perfectly entitled to make even if he was late to the party - was bloody poor show for someone in his late thirties.

Irrefutably you do have some technical knowledge and certainly enjoy explaining in detail why one area or another represents footballing considerations. It would be nice to see you use some of that in the way we use our technical knowledge, to suggest where some of the shortcomings could improve and exactly how, instead of just eulogising about what IS there rather than explaining what isn't. But trying to use it to slap down any thoughts or opinions others have about whether one of these technical aspects of football has been represented accurately is lazy at best and arrogant at worst. Remember how I explained to you why more freedom to choose the direction of pass is still simulating football? I imagine if Max had brought that up (which is well within his capabilities) and you had been on rag week at the time that you would have slapped that down with this sort of nonsense too...

Firstly, the whole FanMan avatar was put there tongue in cheek a couple of years ago when Fifa was the Greatest Show on Earth, and my PES evangelism was ridiculed by all and sundry. If you cant beat them, join them if you like. But unlike the stereotypical 'Fanboy', I'm not blind to everything PES gets wrong. And I would never hide it, or argue against it.

Max has quoted me out of context and generalised about me personally on more than one occasion, and that instance was no different. Although I admit, it was a bit petty of me in hindsight. When I say 'get it', I'm not talking about poor programmming and ill-advised annoyances, such as player switching, Rainbow Flicks, ridiculous Scissor Kicks, stupid clearances etc etc. These are a given. They are poor and they need sorting.

What I have done for as long as I can remember on here, is highlight peoples 'issues', and try and to explain how I feel Konami have tried to simulate certain aspects of real football. I truly believe that the higher your understanding of footballing technique, the more you are able to appreciate everything that PES replicates. Konami are extremely deep at times, more so over the last 3 years, and there are alot aspects of PES that people dont fully understand, and I can appreciate that. What I feel is a crying shame, is when this type of replication isnt fully understood or appreciated, and rendered 'broken'. I dont think thats fair on Konami. That's when I try to explain, and when I say 'get it', thats what I'm referring to. When I say dont 'get it', I really, hand on heart, dont mean that to sound as condecending as it reads, but I dont know another way to write it.

Unlike you Rom, I'm not embarrassed at all by football career, and I took real offence to that.In fact, I'm quite proud overall. I've played all over the country, as well Belgium, Germany and France on three occasions. I represented my County year in year out, and the North of England when I was 15 and at Forest. I spat my dummy out when Forest released me at 16, and walked away from the game completely for 6 years whilst I pursued another career, which is where the G-Force moniker descends from. I came back into the game semi-professionally when I was 22 and played for Horden, Durham City, Wolviston and Billingham Town in the Northern League until I was 34. I then got injured in game,in my last season, which left my right eye half blind, and I hung them up two years ago. There arent many things I know in life, but football is one of them. And I readily admit, I know less than nothing about computer programming, neither am I interested, it sounds like a complete ballache to me.

All I was highlighting were those 'issues', because I felt, from my experience, those are intentially coded. And if I have quoted my past in those instances, it's only to try and convince the doubters, that those beliefs, weren't pulled straight out of thin air. And there have been many instances over the years. People complained that the shooting was broken and inconsistent simply because they were not applying posture relevance or preferred feet. The same with passing to an extent. Then the game and was totally unresponsive and clunky, admittedly the animations were choppy, but the relevance was the 'first touch', a feature Konami have been working on more and more since PES 2009. Then there was was player runs, people felt these were inaccurate because Fifa gave you the option. Where in realism terms, that lies with the individual nature of the player or tactics and strategies. The same goes the for recent lazy striker debate, which I personally feel isnt an Ai addition that has been overdone. I think they have it spot on.

It's these 'issues' that I feel some people 'dont get', and that has been proven. It's not a dig at not 'getting it', there is nothing wrong with that. Apart from football and boxing, I dont 'get' any other sport. And even boxing, I cant honestly say I know boxing technique with any decent stamp. I would love to play NBA2k whatever, but I know absolutely nothing about the sport, and I dont have the patience to learn. The difference with football, is that every man and his dog loves it. And everyone has an opinion. You have football fans that know every club, every player, never miss a match on T.V., and know world football like the back of their hand. You then get footballers, who know the game itself inside out from a technical perspective. Football is all about technique and the understanding of it. The more you know, the better you are. Thats why those who understand and appreciate technique the most, are the ones that are getting paid to play the game.

There are very few people on these boards that ever talk about the technical side of the game, and how PES replicates it, I really wish there were more. I'd love to hear about members and clubs they play for, or have played for, thats the only thing that this forum is missing for me personally.

Anyway, the reason I bit with Max, stupidly, was because he was quoting me out of context completely and making me out to be some blind fanboy, which I'm not. I see the programming flaws like everyone else, and some that I never even seen mentioned, I know they are there. But the lazy striker issue wasnt isnt a flaw. Then to throw in Scissor Kicks and alike and state that people who find that wrong, and according to me, dont 'get it', was wrong. I was one of the very first to highlight that issue from the demo, the same goes for Rainbow Flicks, I hate them, they are fucking horrendous. That what why I acted and responded like a bit of a bellend, because I said nothing of the sort.

As for the stat related semi-auto passing, your dead right, I couldnt get my head around it at all. And you were right, but I never jumped on the comment, I left it open-minded to see what Konami could produce. And they came up trumps again in my opinion. It would have mattered not if were you or Max, I would have still had an open mind in that regard. This is had nothing to do with that. I have the uptmost respect from Max's intelligence and articulate nature, but I'd by lying if I said I felt he knew footballing technique inside out, because I dont.

 

[dannyfc2]

Well isn't this all rather boring, start a new thread and get your handbags out there please.


Also, who said you couldn't get a pen from a standing tackle? Just lost in a game where literally every thing went against me, a stab tackle from the side bringing their man down for pen being one.

 

[romagnoli]

Jim, it wasn't your football career I was embarrassed by at all - it sounds very interesting in fact. I was referring to the tone of your posts, which were condescending and dismissive. Similarly with the comments about whether people 'get it' - it doesn't sound in other posts like you're referring to whether people get what PES is trying to do (which is how it comes across now you've calmed down and posted rationally and articulately), but whether they get football. So it seemed like your argument against people who were disagreeing with you was literally just saying that they don't know what you're talking about.

As for the last bit. Not sure if you're saying you don't think I get football technique or if you'd mixed up your yous and hes. Either way, that's up to you. Not bothered in the slightest. Wouldn't be the first time you were wrong. There are only so many times I can say I can see what Konami are doing in a lot of areas, but because some areas are more authentic than others, and because some compromises ARE made for the sake of fun and fluidity, there ARE issues with the game that mean that one aspect of the game that is pretty representative of a 90 minute match (returning from offside positions) is clashing against a number of systems tailored for a 10 minute match (pressuring and stamina for example, and clipping the speed of fast players on the ball to the extent where your fastest player gets caught by their slowest player rather than simulating more of the unpredictability of touches at higher speeds by less capable players) and concepts that don't particularly make any sense at all (the inability to pass first time from an intercepted ball). Inevitably this will create an overall system where the game is far too frequently balanced against the possession player who looks to recycle play and take his time and knows the opposition are going to spam the same attacks, and in favour of the guy who just double presses and hacks and hits the wings relentlessly and cuts back to the striker or to an attacking midfielder right in behind. Obviously talking about it as often as we do due to disputes like this then overeggs things and implies the game is broken rather than in need of improvement, but it's wrong to suggest we don't know what Konami are attempting with things like the offside tracking back etc when it is how this works in relation to the more liberal, game friendly parts of PES that is causing overall frustration.

 

[Pere Ubu]

The AIs inability to out fox you tactically has always been a problem in PES and now we are past the PS2 days it really shouldnt be. In PES5 it was acceptable to be playing Man UTD and be 2 nil up and have them play with 4 strikers for the last 20 mins. Now this just shows how out of date their AI is and the AI in general is one of the biggest problems in the game, its far from being good enough. The AI should be taking massive strides now from year to year after they have pretty much got the bulk of the gameplay stuff done. Surely it cant be that difficult to have a real time stats system in place that will tell the AI which of your players are most effective and then it can choose from some preset methods to counter them.

Yeah, I don't know why it seems far-fetched to me that the cpu might have a reasonable understanding of how to counter certain formations - I suppose I don't play many strategy-type games so I'm out of touch with how sophisticated the PS3 tech really is in terms of this kind of thing.

Part of the problem, I guess, is that lots of football fans don't really think too much about this side of the game. You even see "professional" pundits moaning that such-and-such a manager isn't playing "two up top", as if playing any other formation is somehow really defensive or negative. There's a general lack of understanding of the ins and outs of football tactics, in England at least (I think in certain countries like Italy it's taken more seriously by fans and media). Maybe Konami just don't see it as top priority and can't be bothered to do the appropriate work. But if you allow the player to use tactical options intelligently, it's really stupid not to give the AI the ability to counter that.

I always used to set my teams up in PES5 to counter the bigger domestic teams in the league & cup and the European giants in the CL, and I knew that what I had done was the reason I would comfortably win some games.

Yeah, you might be right actually. It just used to frustrate me in old PES games (less so PES5, I suppose) that if you played a certain way - fast and intense - you could pretty much wear down the cpu whatever formation you used. That's realistic to an extent (that all-action Sunderland 4-4-2 overwhelming a lame Chelsea side a few weeks ago... tactically Chelsea should have won that game but they just didn't seem up for it and got overrun), but it wasn't necessarily that realistic in the game, if you know what I mean. There's still an element of that in PES2011 of course, but I just get the impression that these days a good tactical set-up can cancel out the opposition a bit more easily than used to be the case.

I dont think that all the team style sliders and management options in PES2011 are as amazing as people think. They may be quick and easy to use but I feel that the old way of doing things was not far off being as effective if you knew what you were doing and knew your players. Having your team preform some things as a unit is good but I feel that there has been some sacrifice of individual AI to get there. I would much rather have the old system back of attack arrows and defense levels as I believe I had greater control over my players and team as a whole with them.

I'm not massively bothered about the lack of individual arrows, because this new system of players' behaviour being determined by their "nature" does kind of work. If I have two central midfielders in front of a DMF, and one is naturally a box-to-box player while the other isn't, I can really see the difference. It does make you think a bit harder about who to pick (and who to buy, in ML). Would be better to have a compromise, though. Sure, in real life you have to pick the right man for the right job, but you should at least be able to order certain players to do certain jobs, even if they might not perform them as well as someone whose stats are more appropriate for the task. Some days a central midfielder might have to stay deep, against other teams he's given more freedom to roam. Seems pointlessly limiting not to have the option.

I'm fairly happy with PES2011 in this respect, though. It's not just the sliders and settings (they're good but they're still quite primitive). It's also the way the pitch is "bigger" in the strategy screen, so you have more scope to position players further up the pitch, or deeper. For instance, I remember being frustrated in PES6 that you couldn't really get a player to play the Makelele role - even if he was the lone DMF at the back of a diamond, he'd wander a bit. In 2011, you can drag him back to just in front of the defence, and (especially if you set the team to "Possession Game (DEF)") not only will he stay there, he'll drop back to become a third centre back / sweeper when the full backs push up and the centre backs spread out to cover. This is brilliant, because it's exactly how a modern defensive midfielder plays (Sergio Busquets being probably the best example). Pre-patch it was my best insurance against those thumping AI through balls and horrible player switching, and I still use the tactic quite often now.

There are lots of great things like this in 2011 which really do reflect modern tactical thought - you can set your centre forward to play as a false nine, you can have wide midfielders who play as "interiores", cutting infield rather than hugging the touchline (by setting them to AMF rather than SMF), you can use someone like Pirlo or Veron or Scholes as a regista, hovering in front of the DMF ready to play passes from deep (although the relative lack of runs up front reduces the effectiveness of this kind of player). In general all this stuff is pretty good, and works well, with more subtlety than in last-gen games. It's just a shame that the opposition AI seems so last-gen tactically... Also, if Konami put a bit more effort into making cpu players take up certain roles and stick to them, it would partially make up for the lack of intelligence in other areas of the AI.

 

[Pere Ubu]

Oh yeah, and the worst thing of all - can't remember if I mentioned this already, but I'm surprised no one else seems to have noticed. The AI doesn't understand the concept of a two-legged tie. In a Champions League knockout game, or a Copa Libertadores play-off game, the AI behaves as if each game is a one-off.

Say you win the first leg away from home, 2-0. In the second leg at home, you set up to defend, but the AI scores a goal after 75 minutes. The post-goal animation shows the player grabbing the ball out of the net and running back to kick off - so he seems to know that they need another goal. You brace yourself for a hectic last 15 minutes.

But the the computer makes a change - it takes off one of the strikers, brings on another defensive midfielder and sits back, totally unwilling to attack. All you have to do is pass the ball around and wait for the final whistle. The computer thinks it's winning the tie. It totally ruins two-legged matches, which is ridiculous when most of the biggest games you're likely to play happen over two legs. It's a bit of a disgrace that something this stupid made it into final code.

 

[romagnoli]

Pere, I'll keep it short but regarding what you've been talking about today I fully agree about the tactical side. It is brilliantly done for the most part; the flexibility and the ability of the game to evolve as the weeks go by is the single most impressive aspect of the whole thing. I'm a bit of a Jonathan Wilson nut myself and am thinking of popping his book on my Santa list to use as my Art Of War. In fact you can use the evolution of formations and tactics online as an indicator to where the game needs refining and improving - practically like a debug tool.

 

[Radiation]

Very annoyed this afternoon that they didn't fix the issues with fouls in the last patch.


I was playing in a cup game against Liverpool. Last minutes of the 2nd half and I'm 1-0 down and so I throw everything forward.

In comes a cross and CY Park throws himself at the ball head first... the keeper dives at full stretch but has no chance and it hits the crossbar and bounces over the line.... whoooooo... oh wait... a free kick to liverpool?

On the replay some idiot defender is jogging BACKWARDS towards his own goals following the path of the ball as it floats over his head. Now Park dives for the ball. He heads the ball and then lands on his stomach on the floor.... then about a second later this defender comes walking over towards Park... he turns around and ends up basically kicking Park in the face as he runs... then stumbles over him on the floor and somehow this is a free kick to them!?

I know the same thing will end up happening in my favour eventually... maybe it will happen in favour of me more than against me. But I was so pissed that it happened at all and cost me the chance of extra time and then pens (which I'd have completely missed).

 

[Ern Dog]

My biggest gripe with the team style stuff is that it seems to me to have given the players a hive mind. By this I mean that they tend to give team actions a priority over more individual actions like breaking from the line of the midfield or defensive 4 to mark or pressure someone. And to make things worse I cannot hold down secondary pressure or even primary at times and break them out manually. I am tired of my back 4 jogging back as a unit when on the right wing is a RWF who then picks up the ball and becomes a threat, why doesnt the LB stay on the man and deter the pass or be in a position to intercept or make a tackle before he becomes a danger. This really drives me mad at times because with the old system I could pull my team around exactly how and when I wanted and it was very effective at pressuring and marking.
I like that in this game the individualism of players extends to their movement when being controlled by the AI, but I would like to have the ability to effect it in some way and for it to not be soo caught up in keeping a line or holding position that it leaves acres of space for obvious threats.

 

[jonneymendoza]

New dlc coming. Out soon

http://winningelevenblog.com/blog/new-pes2011-dlc-on-the-way/

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

 

[Jamezinho]

My biggest gripe with the team style stuff is that it seems to me to have given the players a hive mind. By this I mean that they tend to give team actions a priority over more individual actions like breaking from the line of the midfield or defensive 4 to mark or pressure someone. And to make things worse I cannot hold down secondary pressure or even primary at times and break them out manually. I am tired of my back 4 jogging back as a unit when on the right wing is a RWF who then picks up the ball and becomes a threat, why doesnt the LB stay on the man and deter the pass or be in a position to intercept or make a tackle before he becomes a danger. This really drives me mad at times because with the old system I could pull my team around exactly how and when I wanted and it was very effective at pressuring and marking.
I like that in this game the individualism of players extends to their movement when being controlled by the AI, but I would like to have the ability to effect it in some way and for it to not be soo caught up in keeping a line or holding position that it leaves acres of space for obvious threats.

Good post. I totally agree with that. You're right, players do stick too rigidly to the overall team strategy. I'd like to see them using their individual 'initiative' more often, if that's the right term to use. I know programming AI must be incredibly difficult, but it's nothing Seabass hasn't already achieved with the great PES games.

New dlc coming. Out soon

http://winningelevenblog.com/blog/new-pes2011-dlc-on-the-way/

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

I'm really hoping they expand the stadium editor with new stands and other options but I realise this is highly unlikely. Probably just a bunch of new boots, or worse, penguin outfits. Which don't really do anything for me.

 

[tc811]

Now that everyone mentions it, I'm puzzled about why individual work rates have been removed from the tactics settings. In 2010 the Player Index menu allowed player cards and work rates to be turned on and off individually, but now you can't do anything like that.

 

[gerd]

An educated guess about the new DLC: a new mode: Euro League. Don't get your hopes too high...
The thing i would wanted most is a new league: Bundesliga, Jupiler League, whatever (but not the Japanese one). I would also very happy if you could play ML with the Coppa teams.

 

[dmxdex2020]

The more i play this game the more i hate it. When you skin a slow defender with a fast player only to be caught and tackled is extremely unrealistic and is boring. That needs to be sorted for 2011 as its not realistic.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

The more i play this game the more i hate it. When you skin a slow defender with a fast player only to be caught and tackled is extremely unrealistic and is boring. That needs to be sorted for 2011 as its not realistic.

A balancing act to deter sprint whores. I find that if you get the ball out of your feet by pressing R2 + sprint + direction, then fast players are able to get away from defenders, as long as they dont have the ball in their feet. I got caught on the counter in MLO last night by Aguerro, and I couldnt catch him, and he used that technique. In most cases though, putting the ball into space to run onto, usually means another player comes across and mops up.

 

[Andy]

A balancing act to deter sprint whores. I find that if you get the ball out of your feet by pressing R2 + sprint + direction, then fast players are able to get away from defenders, as long as they dont have the ball in their feet. I got caught on the counter in MLO last night by Aguerro, and I couldnt catch him, and he used that technique. In most cases though, putting the ball into space to run onto, usually means another player comes across and mops up.

Thats exactly the way i beat the chasing defenders. Talking about moves i was looking at the command list yesterday It would take me ages to master all these combos, i thought me this looks like Tekken.

 

[Fitiello]

An educated guess about the new DLC: a new mode: Euro League. Don't get your hopes too high...
The thing i would wanted most is a new league: Bundesliga, Jupiler League, whatever (but not the Japanese one). I would also very happy if you could play ML with the Coppa teams.

DLC will simply include new BOOTS and new Spain home kit...If we're lucky we can get some team 3d kit for Champions League (Real Madrid; Marseille and Manchester United white socks) ;-)

Want you bet?

 

[sir_poc]

Also to add to what Jimmy said, you can get away from them with Speed Merchants with the ball at your feet. Also, if you have players who have darting run cards or are just fast in general; use the r2 button after the pass. They will make quick darting runs through centre backs, or in behind full backs. If you know how to see a pass, and time it to beat an offside trap, you are away and no chance in being caught whatsoever. That’s more about the reactions of the person holding the controller, and their ability to read the game in an instant than the standard of players you have. I’m certainly not the best player, but I was regularly getting away clean through Samaras and Jason Roberts when I had them, certainly not the quickest or best players on the game, but reasonable and they never got caught by the defenders using off the ball runs.

It's actually probably the right balance if you ask me, I certainly prefer it to the old games where in a couple in the series everyone could skin a defender and he's gone. Running with the ball at a high speed is incredibly difficult skill to do with accuracy, so I am quite happy they have limited it to speed merchants and players being encouraged to use darting runs off the ball rather than sprint sprint sprint. There is much more emphasis this time on the guy holding the pad to make sprinting and pace situations happen this year more than ever, but it’s certainly possible on a regular basis.

 

[sir_poc]

One more thing, completely agree as to why that individual work rates option has gone. It was such a simple little thing, but really helped you balance individual players. I guess Konami felt that with player cards/stats , and added individualism someone like Ashley Cole is always going to go forward no matter what (which is true) and someone like Vermaelen who can play the same left back role, will be more defensive (Both are true I've tested them in the same team with the same formation). Still, if you ask me, it's another case of Konami giving us added player individualism, but taking away an otherwise nifty little feature.