PES 2011 Discussion thread

The best thing Konami have done in years is reducing the effectiveness of sprinting. It has ruined it for fair players, every year since PES 5 in my opinion. At least we are now back to actual football being at the forefront of prevalence, for the most part.
 
sir_poc said:
Also to add to what Jimmy said, you can get away from them with Speed Merchants with the ball at your feet. Also, if you have players who have darting run cards or are just fast in general; use the r2 button after the pass. They will make quick darting runs through centre backs, or in behind full backs. If you know how to see a pass, and time it to beat an offside trap, you are away and no chance in being caught whatsoever. That’s more about the reactions of the person holding the controller, and their ability to read the game in an instant than the standard of players you have. I’m certainly not the best player, but I was regularly getting away clean through Samaras and Jason Roberts when I had them, certainly not the quickest or best players on the game, but reasonable and they never got caught by the defenders using off the ball runs.

It's actually probably the right balance if you ask me, I certainly prefer it to the old games where in a couple in the series everyone could skin a defender and he's gone. Running with the ball at a high speed is incredibly difficult skill to do with accuracy, so I am quite happy they have limited it to speed merchants and players being encouraged to use darting runs off the ball rather than sprint sprint sprint. There is much more emphasis this time on the guy holding the pad to make sprinting and pace situations happen this year more than ever, but it’s certainly possible on a regular basis.
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I quite agree. That's exactly what I was going to say. At the end of the day it's a video game and there needs to be balancing here and there to keep things competitive. If all defenders were slow and lumbering then people would complain that it's too easy to create one-on-ones and score. And as Jimmy and others have said, correct use of the dash button will fully utilise the running speed of the quick players. To really run fast when in possession of the ball you have to knock the ball ahead of you so in this respect PES is more true to life than you think.
 
Jamezinho said:
I quite agree. That's exactly what I was going to say. At the end of the day it's a video game and there needs to be balancing here and there to keep things competitive. If all defenders were slow and lumbering then people would complain that it's too easy to create one-on-ones and score. And as Jimmy and others have said, correct use of the dash button will fully utilise the running speed of the quick players. To really run fast when in possession of the ball you have to knock the ball ahead of you so in this respect PES is more true to life than you think.
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That's it. It's all about your stride pattern, which is longer in full flight, covering a larger distance, and therefore quicker. When dribbling with the ball, your pattern is naturally shorter, as you keep the ball in check with every touch.
 
I reckon pacey players should be represented but it needs to be implemented differently. Likes been pointed out, fast players were too effective as they had perfect control. If they made touches more eradicate and random when full out sprinting it could make for a balanced representation, like you could burst past a full back but find you run it out of play or it takes time to get it under full control again.

But yeah it's better like this, to get away with quick players you just need to vary your speed and direction, which is fair enough as you rarely see players run in straight lines in real life. All Konami have done is penalise unimaginative players, which is fair enough really. Speed is still a vital stat, as I soon found out with Crespo
 
dannyfc2 said:
I reckon pacey players should be represented but it needs to be implemented differently. Likes been pointed out, fast players were too effective as they had perfect control. If they made touches more eradicate and random when full out sprinting it could make for a balanced representation, like you could burst past a full back but find you run it out of play or it takes time to get it under full control again.

But yeah it's better like this, to get away with quick players you just need to vary your speed and direction, which is fair enough as you rarely see players run in straight lines in real life. All Konami have done is penalise unimaginative players, which is fair enough really. Speed is still a vital stat, as I soon found out with Crespo
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This is something that neither PES or Fifa has implemented yet. PES does a good job of the variation in first touch between good and bad players, but all players take fairly uniform touches when running with the ball. It would be nice to see lesser skilled players taking bad touches when running with the ball such as stumbling, letting the ball get underneath them or knocking it too far ahead.
 
Jamezinho said:
This is something that neither PES or Fifa has implemented yet. PES does a good job of the variation in first touch between good and bad players, but all players take fairly uniform touches when running with the ball. It would be nice to see lesser skilled players taking bad touches when running with the ball such as stumbling, letting the ball get underneath them or knocking it too far ahead.
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Great call. I would love that. With the continuous emphasis on the first and second touch, that seems to be the next logical step from a technical perspective.
 
I guess some folks just love to play pes with R1 held down FOREVER!!.. doesn't matter how unrealistic this is.
It's like playing in a tight midfield with R1 held down, which a lot of people still do. No strategy or skill needed whatsoever, just braindead (hold down) sprint and skip past or onto everyone.

Seriously.. in pes5/6 i could tell myself well.. i'm going to play this or that way because i know i'm going to score (it's all in the cheese) read: > in fact more like abusing <
Now you need to make more use of strategy/skill. Every core pes player knows this.. and that is what makes this game great

The beauty of pes lies in the fact that it really can be played like real life football, just that (in 2011) it isn't as cheesy with the; cutbacks/sprints/ping pong like it used to in various editions of earlier pes games.
Some players still need getting used to this cuz of 'bad' habit ^^
 
Jamezinho said:
This is something that neither PES or Fifa has implemented yet. PES does a good job of the variation in first touch between good and bad players, but all players take fairly uniform touches when running with the ball. It would be nice to see lesser skilled players taking bad touches when running with the ball such as stumbling, letting the ball get underneath them or knocking it too far ahead.
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i concur
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Great call. I would love that. With the continuous emphasis on the first and second touch, that seems to be the next logical step from a technical perspective.
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I did suggest this to EA a few months back after we'd talked about it on here. I do think it's essential that fast yet poorly technical players be represented as still being fast but having an erratic touch when running full tilt, particularly when running full pelt. I can understand the regularity of touch distances from a game perspective, but I think it's entirely workable now that the game has those more subtle angles with the near-enough 360 controls. It'd improve the sense that the ball and the player are separate entities no end, as I think we've said in the past.
 
This game is officially getting on my wick, on the PS3. Its nowhere near as smooth and responsive as it is for me on the PC, does nobody else on the PS3 when they get the ball and do a run have a stutter? :/ gonna stop playing it on PS3 methinks, the low frame rate is doing my bloody head in as well!! and not being able to adjust camera angles....
 
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This game is absolutely stunning when played the right way! The best of the best, cream of the crop etc. etc :WORSHIP:

Just had another game on PEEL and when you're playing like-minded people you instantly forget about all the flaws this game has. At the risk of sounding like a major fanboy, this game is truly a (flawed) masterpiece:BOP:
 
I would really like to play some PEEL menbers. But i can only play ranked 1 vs 1. PES 2011 is the only game i have trouble playing online. I think its poor by Konami, that so many cant play online.
 
dannyfc2 said:
I reckon pacey players should be represented but it needs to be implemented differently. Likes been pointed out, fast players were too effective as they had perfect control. If they made touches more eradicate and random when full out sprinting it could make for a balanced representation, like you could burst past a full back but find you run it out of play or it takes time to get it under full control again.

But yeah it's better like this, to get away with quick players you just need to vary your speed and direction, which is fair enough as you rarely see players run in straight lines in real life. All Konami have done is penalise unimaginative players, which is fair enough really. Speed is still a vital stat, as I soon found out with Crespo
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Agreed. Speed kills and ideally it would be accurately represented as such, but it's certainly better this way than rewarding sprint whores.

It makes you wonder though why the balancing is necessary to begin with. While speed is an important part of the game (although even the Messi-ah himself misses break-aways like he did on Tuesday!) neither FIFA or PES can get it right, and both are left having to nerf the effectiveness of speed to a certain extent.

So what is it? Defensive AI not being advanced enough? Ball control while dribbling being too easy? A difficult balancing act of many variables that just simply hasn't been nailed down by either dev team yet?

In addition to anolog sprint, an interesting thing FIFA has done this year is make it necessary to use the right stick knock-on during - not just the first touch initiating a sprint but during - sprinting with the ball to make full use of a player's speed. Though I would like it to go further, this does at least add an additional component to dribbling in an attempt to simulate the difficulty of sprinting and dribbling - sort of like the addition in PES of using the L-stick directions for different defending approaches.

Maybe FIFA should steal PES's manual defending and PES should steal FIFA's pseudo-manual sprinting, and build from there?
 
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CalcioCalabrese said:
Right stick for tackling? I have been moving the left stick when I'm close enough lol. Have I been doing it wrong haha?
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Nope, that's just me being a dumb ass.

(Unless of course one of the games uses the R-stick for some type of manual defending, in which case I want a free copy of whichever game for my patented Pro R-stick defending idea (which i no doubt stole from someone else.))
 
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Simcut said:
This game is officially getting on my wick, on the PS3. Its nowhere near as smooth and responsive as it is for me on the PC, does nobody else on the PS3 when they get the ball and do a run have a stutter? :/ gonna stop playing it on PS3 methinks, the low frame rate is doing my bloody head in as well!! and not being able to adjust camera angles....
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The only thing that is getting on my tits with the PS3 version is the jaggies all over the place. It makes the game look terrible from wide or normal-long cam, even though the graphics are stunning close up.

Mind you many games seems to be suffering graphically on the PS3 compared to the Xbox 360. So much for being the more powerful console.:FAIL:
 
Uncharted and other PS exclusives look stunning though. Probably Microsoft paying off game developers to make Xbox versions slightly superior:JAY:
 
Jamezinho said:
The only thing that is getting on my tits with the PS3 version is the jaggies all over the place. It makes the game look terrible from wide or normal-long cam, even though the graphics are stunning close up.

Mind you many games seems to be suffering graphically on the PS3 compared to the Xbox 360. So much for being the more powerful console.:FAIL:
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Do you not get problems with like a delay on running with the ball etc? it's weird, I dont know how to explain it properly :/ and yeah I have problems with the graphics on my screen :-(

The performance for me is really sluggish and I get massive slowdown in the game plan as the players walk off at the end of first half. Dunno wtf is going on, dunno if it's my ps3, my ps3 settings or my monitor is just shit. But it happens on my HDTV downstairs in the lounge and on my PC monitor that's hooked up, hmm.
 
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Simcut said:
Do you not get problems with like a delay on running with the ball etc? it's weird, I dont know how to explain it properly :/ and yeah I have problems with the graphics on my screen :-(

The performance for me is really sluggish and I get massive slowdown as the players walk off at the end of the half and I'm in the menu trying to scroll through things and in the game plan while the players walk off.
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The game runs smoothly enough for me. No stuttering or anything like that.
 
Simcut said:
Lucky you! lol.

You using a TV or got it hooked up to a monitor, and what tv/monitor? :)

Gonna make a video now actually, to show what its like for me
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Thats a fair point, i have the pc version on widescreen monitor and although i would say 95% of the time it runs fine, but every now and again the game stutters for a few seconds and its exactly like when you're playing online with really bad lag. I thought maybe it was some program kicking in behind the scenes, but even when using Gamebooster the problem still persists. :CONFUSE:
 
mfmaxpower said:
In addition to anolog sprint, an interesting thing FIFA has done this year is make it necessary to use the right stick knock-on during - not just the first touch initiating a sprint but during - sprinting with the ball to make full use of a player's speed. Though I would like it to go further, this does at least add an additional component to dribbling in an attempt to simulate the difficulty of sprinting and dribbling - sort of like the addition in PES of using the L-stick directions for different defending approaches.
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This sounds brilliant and is the sort of thing Konami need to be doing now. You could forgive them not changing much while the game was crap but now they seem to have got a good foundation its time to build on it. PES is too basic, very little has changed since last gen they need to do what EA have done and start implemting new gameplay mechanics every year.
 
Ern Dog said:
This sounds brilliant and is the sort of thing Konami need to be doing now. You could forgive them not changing much while the game was crap but now they seem to have got a good foundation its time to build on it. PES is too basic, very little has changed since last gen they need to do what EA have done and start implemting new gameplay mechanics every year.
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they should polish the existing game mechanics first before they start implementing new ones. dribbling and turning with a player is simply not good in pes 2011.
 
Simcut said:
Do you not get problems with like a delay on running with the ball etc? it's weird, I dont know how to explain it properly :/ and yeah I have problems with the graphics on my screen :-(

The performance for me is really sluggish and I get massive slowdown in the game plan as the players walk off at the end of first half. Dunno wtf is going on, dunno if it's my ps3, my ps3 settings or my monitor is just shit. But it happens on my HDTV downstairs in the lounge and on my PC monitor that's hooked up, hmm.
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I have to agree about the delay mate, when playing it on the PC before I got the PS3 version, things seemed more responsive. Considering switching back to it.
 
Since the new patch I've also been having trouble dribbling. The problem stems from the fact that the AI responds to controller input. This would be fine if there was a 1:1 relationship between input and player movement (with the ball), but as we all know, this isn't the case.

More often than not when you input a movement command, your player carries out his animation, which is almost always slower than his pursuer. As a result, your AI pursuer reacts to the input and appears to 'predict' where the controlled player will be. This issue has been exacerbated by the increased pressure created by the 1.02 patch. I can live with the problem, but I can see how people would be frustrated when playing offline.

The weird thing is, when you use the secondary press button, the AI responds as it should, reacting to the animation of the CPU player. This is what confuses me; the lack of consistency across the game's systems is astounding.
 
Passes in the defence have a different strength from the passes in midlefield and attack. Same deal with crosses and passes into space. One time the ball flies like a rocket, next time it is like a helium baloon.
 
Simcut said:
Do you not get problems with like a delay on running with the ball etc? it's weird, I dont know how to explain it properly :/ and yeah I have problems with the graphics on my screen :-(

The performance for me is really sluggish and I get massive slowdown in the game plan as the players walk off at the end of first half. Dunno wtf is going on, dunno if it's my ps3, my ps3 settings or my monitor is just shit. But it happens on my HDTV downstairs in the lounge and on my PC monitor that's hooked up, hmm.
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Are you using an HDMI cable? Thing is with composite (I think it's called) there can be slow downs because of transfer rate being low in it. I don't know what outputs PS3 have, but try using VGA or HDMI cable and the slow downs might go away. I've read about PS3 owners solving it like this and I solved my slow downs on Xbox by changing to a VGA cable (my xbox don't have hdmi).
 
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