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PES 2011 Discussion thread

Kaiser said:
I think it is obvious though that a person having to control a football is going to be somewhat slower than a person who is just having to sprint!!

Commen sense would tell you that.
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I prefer empirical evidence over 'common sense':P How do you explain Messi's ability then? He is infamous for his ability to outrun defenders while controlling the ball.
 
sincover said:
Hmm, after some very interesting experiments it seems that there is less deviation between a player with 99 stats when he has the ball and a player with 30 stats when he doesn't have the ball.

Here's how I set up the experiment: The two players (99 and 30) each had to run from the goal line to the half line, both with the ball and without the ball. I took 5 separate measurements with each player, then calculated the average (among other things).

Here are my findings:

99 Stats Player
WITH BALL
Dead Sprint (Hold R1)(secs) – 7.23, 7.25, 7.20, 7.27, 7.23
Average Time = 7.24 secs

30 Stats Player
WITHOUT BALL
Dead Sprint (secs) – 7.16, 7.13, 7.16, 7.12, 7.14
Average Time = 7.14 secs

This was very surprising. According to my observations, the 30 stats player, when chasing without the ball, is actually faster.


Here are more results:

99 Stats Player
WITHOUT BALL
Dead Sprint (secs) – 7.0, 7.03, 7.0, 7.02, 7.03
Average Time = 7.02 secs

30 Stats Player
WITH BALL
Dead Sprint (secs) – 9.04, 9.0, 9.01, 8.98, 9.01
Average Time = 9.01 secs

As you can see, the deviation caused by having the ball for the 99 stats player is only ~0.22 secs, while the deviation for the 30 stats player is a whopping ~1.87 secs.

These results suggest that ball possession makes all the difference. I'd wager that as Jimmy said, this system was put into place to stop sprinting abuse. The CPU isn't rubberbanding, when chasing you down, they are simply faster.

Gotta love good old empirical data. :WORSHIP:
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The deviation part isn't that surprising. With 'dribble speed' vs. the 'speed' stat, I take it to mean that if a players' dribble speed 99, that will mean he has the minimum amount of deviation from running speed to dribble speed possible in the game. For example, if your speed is 70 and your dribble speed is 99, your dribbling speed won't actually be faster than your running speed, but you will run nearly as fast (70 speed) with the ball than without it.

Therefore if you set someone's speed to 33 and then their dribble speed to 33, their dribbling speed will be exponentially slower than their actual speed, which will be slow as molasses. I imagine if you set a players' speed to 99 and dribble speed to 33, there should be the same variance in speed.
 
To anyone whose played ML, how is player fatigue represented? Played a bit and I can't find an icon or whatever.
 
Isnt a player with a 30 stat for running chasing down a player with 99 dribble speed and running speed still "rubber banding".
 
sincover said:
I prefer empirical evidence over 'common sense':P How do you explain Messi's ability then? He is infamous for his ability to outrun defenders while controlling the ball.
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Messi is the exception. He is quicker than a hiccup!:P
 
sincover said:
Hmm, after some very interesting experiments it seems that there is less deviation between a player with 99 stats when he has the ball and a player with 30 stats when he doesn't have the ball.

Here's how I set up the experiment: The two players (99 and 30) each had to run from the goal line to the half line, both with the ball and without the ball. I took 5 separate measurements with each player, then calculated the average (among other things).

Here are my findings:

99 Stats Player
WITH BALL
Dead Sprint (Hold R1)(secs) – 7.23, 7.25, 7.20, 7.27, 7.23
Average Time = 7.24 secs

30 Stats Player
WITHOUT BALL
Dead Sprint (secs) – 7.16, 7.13, 7.16, 7.12, 7.14
Average Time = 7.14 secs

This was very surprising. According to my observations, the 30 stats player, when chasing without the ball, is actually faster.


Here are more results:

99 Stats Player
WITHOUT BALL
Dead Sprint (secs) – 7.0, 7.03, 7.0, 7.02, 7.03
Average Time = 7.02 secs

30 Stats Player
WITH BALL
Dead Sprint (secs) – 9.04, 9.0, 9.01, 8.98, 9.01
Average Time = 9.01 secs

As you can see, the deviation caused by having the ball for the 99 stats player is only ~0.22 secs, while the deviation for the 30 stats player is a whopping ~1.87 secs.

These results suggest that ball possession makes all the difference. I'd wager that as Jimmy said, this system was put into place to stop sprinting abuse. The CPU isn't rubberbanding, when chasing you down, they are simply faster.

Gotta love good old empirical data. :WORSHIP:
Click to expand...

not only that (i knew it was simply the case that players are a lot slower on the ball) But you really need to use the R1 and R2 buttons when trying to outpace players with the ball, it's simple that you able to run faster when using R1 and R2 since you knock the ball ahead of you :) When just using R1 you simply run quicker with the ball than when you jog, that's all!!

sincover said:
I prefer empirical evidence over 'common sense':P How do you explain Messi's ability then? He is infamous for his ability to outrun defenders while controlling the ball.
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Simple, infact, watch Messi's brilliant goal vs Getafe and you will infact see him beat the same player twice! He got past him the first time, but that defender unlike the other 4 players plus the keeper wasn't put off balance enough he couldn't recover! He recovered, chased after him, only to be beaten again :LOL: but it shows event he lighting fast Messi, others like Walcott even, they rarely just burn players with the ball! They beat them, unbalance the defender so they can't catch them!

It's not absolutely 100 perfect, no no butt his system is great as it is. We won't get people just abusing the sprinters thankfully :)
 
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WOW i just scored an amazing goal. The kind i could never get myself to score on pes 2010. PES 11 is growing on me alot more. I am milan the game was 1-1 deep into the 90th i pick the ball up with ronaldinho about 45 yards from goal borriello makes a run i overhead ball through it too him perfectly the ball comes down and i volley curl it to the right handside of the goal post and in keeper was rooted. Fucking immense. Was on professional. Im going up to top player now as i have got to grips with the game. I just hope the issues that plague pes 11 konami can fix for next year.

Dont know if anybody can anwser me this. But why do the kits look blurry in the editor? And why doe the kit badges when zoomed in on in certain camera modes look low res? FIFA 11 does not have this issue.
 
I actually thing its about time they cut down on the boring speed whores. PES is about passing and scoring good team goals. Not relying on 1 player to run his way to goal its not realistic.
 
klashman69 said:
not only that (i knew it was simply the case that players are a lot slower on the ball) But you really need to use the R1 and R2 buttons when trying to outpace players with the ball, it's simple that you able to run faster when using R1 and R2 since you knock the ball ahead of you :) When just using R1 you simply run quicker with the ball than when you jog, that's all!!
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Yes Klash the methods you mention are beneficial, but marginally so.

R1+R2 is actually slower than regular sprinting (because of change in direction), the player has to adjust his body every time before hitting the ball again. R1+R2 is only good for a sudden quick change in direction, which is helped greatly by the players Acceleration stat (I am sure everyone knows this).

Continuously tapping R1 is slightly beneficial. On average it is ~0.10 secs faster than just holding R1.
 
dmxdex2020 said:
I actually thing its about time they cut down on the boring speed whores. PES is about passing and scoring good team goals. Not relying on 1 player to run his way to goal its not realistic.
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Thing is, people, i ask this question, how much does sprinting WITH the ball, slow you down?

I have said before you can run at almost full speed when using R1 and R2 but you won't have great control over the ball, knocking it ahead so far! But you can pace away from the defender chasing back somewhat!
 
dmxdex2020 said:
I actually thing its about time they cut down on the boring speed whores. PES is about passing and scoring good team goals. Not relying on 1 player to run his way to goal its not realistic.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly the reason this system is in place. People whinged, as they do, in PES 5 with this philosophy. Konami then gave fast players speed in PES 6, PES 2008, PES 2009 and to an extent PES 2010, and it was abused badly. There always was the option to play 'real' football in the Next Gen PES games, but you were not rewarded like you were in PES 5 for these exact reasons. I keep saying this, but it really is a Catch 22 situation. Thankfully, Konami this year have decided that this is the only philosophy, and system, that promotes the true fundementals of football. Basically, you dont have any other option, which is exactly how it should be.

With the move towards greater angles, the emphasis on the first touch and every touch there after, in their Next Gen games, Konami can still create the relevance of speed, but in a much more realistic form. The speed of touch over the first 5-10 yards is what makes agile, pacey players relevant, but at the same time, removes tactical, one-dimentional sprint abuse. The perfect compromise.

For those who will still whinge and moan that fast players can no longer leave slower defenders in their wake, well, go and play a different football game. PES is definately not for you. ;)
 
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ehsan_c said:
:SHOCK:

You can actually do that now?

I've always wanted to the CUCCHIAIO in a penalty.
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yes...

press :square:.. then..during run up, (sorry for my english) press lightly the left botton---and enjoy!

(if you hold more the left button,the shot will go high)
 
mr_man said:
http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/15026.page

Things like this make me think the PES and Fifa crowd should be fenced off from each other forever. EA is actually getting flak in its forums because players can't sprint towards a goal and they can't ping pong pass anymore in assisted settings.
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Sigh...

Is there a known problem with the form system in ML? After hiring the top athletic trainer this happens: Almost all of my valuable players are messed up. Even their replacements on the bench are messed up too! This never happened to me in ML 2010.

wtfml.jpg
 
mr_man said:
http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/15026.page

Things like this make me think the PES and Fifa crowd should be fenced off from each other forever. EA is actually getting flak in its forums because players can't sprint towards a goal and they can't ping pong pass anymore in assisted settings.
Click to expand...

I have fifa 11 on the pc and i play it on all manual and the game is much more rewarding.
 
sincover said:
Sigh...

Is there a known problem with the form system in ML? After hiring the top athletic trainer this happens: Almost all of my valuable players are messed up. Even their replacements on the bench are messed up too! This never happened to me in ML 2010.

wtfml.jpg
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Thats PSV yes?

You didn't by any chance after the Ajax game away (if you won) Let the players have a night out in the red light district?

I think their WAGS found out and their having issues at home :CONFUSE:

Or maybe they just hate the extra training session :P

Joking, seems like a bug, anyone else experiencing this?
 
klashman69 said:
Thats PSV yes?

You didn't by any chance after the Ajax game away (if you won) Let the players have a night out in the red light district?

I think their WAGS found out and their having issues at home :CONFUSE:

Or maybe they just hate the extra training session :P

Joking, seems like a bug, anyone else experiencing this?
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Just the odd one off, your Fitness Coach isnt a God, but he will get you better results over the long term. Nothing to worry about, I've seen this on PES 2010.
 
Apparently they all slept in the same bed :P

Short ML story incoming:
After losing that game (against Twente) the team's crappy form persisted. My players were becoming prima donnas! There were some very heated talks going on in the dressing room. We lost to Feyenoord, Ajax and Utrecht...in a row! I was literally screaming at the players (only PES does this to me). They all lost their desire to win. All except one.

Ki Sung Yueng was a relatively cheap signing for me. He spent most of his days on the bench. Afellay was the star central midfielder, but Ki patiently waited.
After 3 home losses and 2 away losses I was desperate for a victory. I gave Ki a chance as Afellay was disappointing me again and again.

It was the last home game before our Europa League match with Fiorentina. The fans were pissed, I was deciding whether to sack the fitness coach.

After 87 minutes and 3 missed chances by Toivonen, I was getting impatient. NAC BREDA brought up almost all of their players for a corner, but Marcelo gets to it first. Hamsik is in the right place at the right time and lobs it straight upfield.

The only player who even bothered to make a run was Sung Yueng. The ball bounces awkwardly in front of him but he is equal to the challenge. With his first touch he uses his chest to 'cap' (hit the ball over his head) the sole defender chasing him. The keeper decides to come out and close the space down. With his second touch Ki methodically puts it in the back of the net. 1-0. I am satisfied. Ki gets a place in the starting 11.

For my Europa League game, everyone was back to mostly green arrows (Ki's arrow was red for the next 3 or so games). I told myself that Sung Yueng's goal brought them back into form.

This is why, despite all the problems I have with the CPU and AI, I will always keep going back for more.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
How ? I have always wanted the ability to attempt this in PES. :WOOT:

Any videos ?
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Yes its in. I have finally mastered the PK system now. Kept experimenting til I got the hang of it.

For doing the chip, facing the goal to the right, first press shoot and left at the same time for a milisecond, then during the run up, 3 steps ore more, flick up or down to pick a corner or do nothing and goes down the middle.

Hope I make sense.
 
sincover said:
Apparently they all slept in the same bed :P

Short ML story incoming:
After losing that game (against Twente) the team's crappy form persisted. My players were becoming prima donnas! There were some very heated talks going on in the dressing room. We lost to Feyenoord, Ajax and Utrecht...in a row! I was literally screaming at the players (only PES does this to me). They all lost their desire to win. All except one.

Ki Sung Yueng was a relatively cheap signing for me. He spent most of his days on the bench. Afellay was the star central midfielder, but Ki patiently waited.
After 3 home losses and 2 away losses I was desperate for a victory. I gave Ki a chance as Afellay was disappointing me again and again.

It was the last home game before our Europa League match with Fiorentina. The fans were pissed, I was deciding whether to sack the fitness coach.

After 87 minutes and 3 missed chances by Toivonen, I was getting impatient. NAC BREDA brought up almost all of their players for a corner, but Marcelo gets to it first. Hamsik is in the right place at the right time and lobs it straight upfield.

The only player who even bothered to make a run was Sung Yueng. The ball bounces awkwardly in front of him but he is equal to the challenge. With his first touch he uses his chest to 'cap' (hit the ball over his head) the sole defender chasing him. The keeper decides to come out and close the space down. With his second touch Ki methodically puts it in the back of the net. 1-0. I am satisfied. Ki gets a place in the starting 11.

For my Europa League game, everyone was back to mostly green arrows (Ki's arrow was red for the next 3 or so games). I told myself that Sung Yueng's goal brought them back into form.

This is why, despite all the problems I have with the CPU and AI, I will always keep going back for more.
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:COOL: i love master league! You get that personal feeling with your team! The depths you can go into! I can see myself doing a jimmy this year (if i get time) :P

Your PSV master league is sounding really enjoyable actually :LOL: i like it when it gets tough! When your teammates are being spoiled bitches! Makes it all the more satisfying when you succeed or even win :CONFUSE:
 
sincover said:
Sigh...

Is there a known problem with the form system in ML? After hiring the top athletic trainer this happens: Almost all of my valuable players are messed up. Even their replacements on the bench are messed up too! This never happened to me in ML 2010.

wtfml.jpg
Click to expand...

Do you also have the best hmm... I dont know what it is called in the english version.... the best "guy for regeneration"? You need him, too.
 
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