PES 2011 Discussion thread

[klashman69]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Yes it is a fictional statistic, I've already covered and scrutinized the problems of PES so there's no need for repetition really. Ok this whole elitism of I'm a really a real real footballer, I'm not a gamer, I consider more things when playing, I'm more observant etc etc Is nothing more than qualifying one's self above others' statements so I'm not taking any of it seriously at all, sorry.

Just my opinion, my view when i see PES thats all. Wasan't trying to sound elietist. Everyone has different wiew. (Probably shouldv'e phrased that better)

Ok, so some non FIFA players beat each other and the one guy who does play FIFA regularly applies foolish antics (halfway line keeper) ... ? No offense but that's all I'm getting from this story.

Nah, one non fifa hater managed to beat an addict fifa player once out of 5 games. But it was just a summary of people views on pes who i know of in real life.

Sounds very logical to me, although I'm still trying to figure out the whole 'internet terms' thing. I'm also one of these former PES players that have been forced to leave PES. When the demo came out I was shocked at the appalling production values even for a demo. Incomplete animations, abhorrent player movement/reactions, dated collisions, angular/rigid/turgid structure, unrealistic relations between actions and animations (ie. that 40 yard Messi cross with the outside foot), very little contextual player actions, unresponsiveness, arcade ball physics, unacceptable GKs & refs, cheap AI, etc etc etc.

As it was indeed a demo I hoped these things would be rectified and ironically I still found the game quite enjoyable the more I played it - the demo. Problem is the final product wasn't as fun as the AI was worse and all the problems the demo had were still in there. This leaves PES '10 as a very buggy & glitchy game built on dated code. So if you claim the demo was 60% of the product then that's just it, this game is unfinished. PES 08 & 09 had fundamental gameplay issues which PES 10 has evolved from, this alone is an unfortunate state of affairs but when you consider how unfinished the game is it's no wonder there's a one way steady migration between the games. Saying former PES player who migrated are suddenly after sweet zany liquid smooth animations, scissor kicks & are devoid of tactial nous etc is a cop-out.

So you definitely see why some think PES is going nowhere fast and yet you think it's a 'return to form' with great promise. I just can't understand that unless you don't find said issues a problem for YOU ... but you did say you like how the defenders with low dribbling move in that 'special' fashion so maybe therein lies the fundamental differences between the PES domestics and the migraters.

Looks like we have very much reached a stage were we must agree to disagree. Great to see this has actually been a debate in which we both try to convey our points rather than like at the ea forums where people just insult eachover when the lose the argument Basically they do what Audiard is dong now in this thread.

Lets hope you like PES 2011, so you can use my kits lol

 

[TanMak]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Looks like we have very much reached a stage were we must agree to disagree. Great to see this has actually been a debate in which we both try to convey our points rather than like at the ea forums where people just insult eachover when the lose the argument Basically they do what Audiard is dong now in this thread.

Lets hope you like PES 2011, so you can use my kits lol

lol THE best thing said in this whole damn thread

Why do you bother writing these essays on a game you dont like ?

Surely you have better things to be doing, like playing FIFA 10 maybe ?

Maybe because it's a PES 2011 discussion thread champ

 

[DerleiPT]

This game need different engine coz i am bored with this game. Every year i feel the same old pes,the same scripts . I am happy to hear that they want make something new with gameplay , create new game feeling.PES2010 has some good thing like tactic,inviduality but its still a bit boring and not better than new Fifa.

I see some words about simulation , i think ea neither konami dont want walk into the simulation side. game should must be something between sim /arcade for marketing reasons and why shouldnt expect full sim game. Look at Arma / Operation Flashpoint( not dragon rising crap) ... this game is for close group of peoples-tactic , full realism geeks .If you have 30 friends for online game , you can see something amazing , great war simulation but as i said ,this is for close group geeks .Thats why this game is not enjoyed such a marketing successful .Konami and Ea has different expectations.

klashman69 - why you doing this ? please tell why ? why are you so frustrated ?

I play Pes2010 sometimes too but as peshardcore fan i can say ,, Fifa10 is better game now if you play with friends '' Fifa10/Pes10 vs AI is soooo BoRiNg but online/friends on manual in fifa10 is one/two class better game.Stop trying to say that there is only animations or something because its not true.

 

[Rob]

I'm of the opinion that PES 2010 is a decent footy game. Sure it lacks fluidity, atmosphere, licences, and accurate AI. However it makes up for it with it's physics, unpredictability, and individualism.

I'm not sure it needs a new "engine" to become a better game, after all I'm sure Konami have had their employees trying to implement such a thing and perhaps they simply can't make a satisfactory one, (it must be difficult thing to do) and are preferring to stick to the old one.

 

[AHTPAKCA]

WENB forum are placed information that next week there will be press releases, maybe some art works. Who do you think will be on the cover this year? I bet on Fabregas.

 

[BillyBoy]

WENB forum are placed information that next week there will be press releases, maybe some art works. Who do you think will be on the cover this year? I bet on Fabregas.

No there isnt. All thats happening next week is a press meeting to discuss PES 2011 but that information wont be available in the public domain (e.g. via a press release) until after that's taken place which could still be some time.

 

[Aqua]

great marquez vid

topic:

this old henry cross/strange ball-physics vid of fifa 010 says enough for me, when i saw it it was clear, no console again this year !

and if i must read that fifa doesnt even take weak foot acc. into account well,..pes was the right choice despite the weird cpu decisions/interventions/passing..

 

[Lami]

I had to download the PES 2009 demo yesterday to remember how it plays like. I wanted to see how different or similar it is after spending so much time on PES 2010.

First thing noticed, graphics. Big jump from 2009. Looks much more lifelike; 2009 looks cartoony.

Second, gameplay. Imo, Playing 2009 made me appreciate 2010 a lot. 2009 felt stiff, passing all over the place and quite a few weird crap going on. The refs do give me fouls though!

EDIT:

Lami now a mod

Hope you are all well.........I'll think I'll wait until June to add comments in this thread.....just a tad too early

Hey mate, been a long time. Ever since you got 2010 you vanished

 

[Dr Force]

I had to download the PES 2009 demo yesterday to remember how it plays like. I wanted to see how different or similar it is after spending so much time on PES 2010.

First thing noticed, graphics. Big jump from 2009. Looks much more lifelike; 2009 looks cartoony.

Second, gameplay. Imo, Playing 2009 made me appreciate 2010 a lot. 2009 felt stiff, passing all over the place and quite a few weird crap going on. The refs do give me fouls though!

EDIT:


Hey mate, been a long time. Ever since you got 2010 you vanished

PES2010 is defo the best PES yet IMO and as i have been able to patch it on PC, it's graphically much better than FIFA, so yaeh, not been off it matey

 

[Audiard]

Approximately 99.9% of all online forums are based around videogames. Sadly, there are several members of the videogame community who have such an overly-fanatical devotion to their particular game and/or console that they're somehow incapable of admitting any other game and/or system might have good features too or that their favourite game might not be anything other than perfect. Such people are best ignored, because such ‘Fanboys' are basically a special subset of unintellegent morons. Thank goodness the footballing gaming community has so many well balanced, objective and thoughtful contributors with well thought-out arguments.

OK back to PES2011; we all known that the PES series is setting cutting edge standards - not simply in footballing games or even sports sims but for ALL genres of gaming. But even so prefection is never quite reached, so in all seriousness Jimmy-G et. al. can in you wisdom think of ANYTHING that might, just might, be improved by Konami for the release of PES2011? It's hard to think of anything myself...the only thing I've got is a wider range of animal heads in the edit mode perhaps?

 

[Audiard]

Just to clear up. I do not consider anyone here a PES fanboy*

* A PES Fanboy is in my view a person who rants and raves about PES games regardless of the games (very very MINOR) shortcomings. Usually hostile towards anyone suggesting either another game like FIFA might be better in some regards or anyone pointing out the (supposed) flaws in PES by using emotion rather then logic to make their pro-PES arguments.

You know things like "I love PES and I'm a footballer not a gamer, ipso facto PES is the best game ever. FACT" and so on.

 

[Lami]

You reek of "wind-up-merchant". See you.

EDIT: Guys, no one reply to his post. I left it there for a reason. Remember no flaming whatsoever and no winding up.

 

[tc811]

One of the changes needed for PES 2011 is greater options with corner kicks:

1) Allow any number of players to enter the penalty area to defend against a corner kick. Some teams with tall players retreat to the penalty area to attack the ball (e.g. Chelsea, Barcelona) while leaving smaller, quicker forwards to begin a counter-attack. At the moment tall strikers like Ibrahimovic or Drogba stay upfield and try to gain an attacking position, even though these two players could be used to defend a corner. Also the three player limit on the "players to go up" menu in the set piece settings should be removed, because players should be allowed to send four tall defenders to attack a corner if those are the only tall players in the team.

2) allow players to set up on the edges of the goal posts during corner kicks. At the moment one fullback is positioned at the near post, leaving the far post completely exposed. Players should be able to allow any outfield players to guard the posts if they choose, especially if some teams aren't blessed with height (e.g. Arsenal).

Does anyone have an opinion on the addition on zonal marking or man to man defending? Would it add substantial depth to the set piece system already in place?

Approximately 99.9% of all online forums are based around videogames.

LOL, just had to repeat that one for statistics-related hilarity. Gawd I hate you.

 

[BillyBoy]

You reek of "wind-up-merchant". See you.

EDIT: Guys, no one reply to his post. I left it there for a reason. Remember no flaming whatsoever and no winding up.

I was surprised he wasnt banned earlier. His posts were pathetic.

 

[Jamezinho]

One of the changes needed for PES 2011 is greater options with corner kicks:

1) Allow any number of players to enter the penalty area to defend against a corner kick. Some teams with tall players retreat to the penalty area to attack the ball (e.g. Chelsea, Barcelona) while leaving smaller, quicker forwards to begin a counter-attack. At the moment tall strikers like Ibrahimovic or Drogba stay upfield and try to gain an attacking position, even though these two players could be used to defend a corner. Also the three player limit on the "players to go up" menu in the set piece settings should be removed, because players should be allowed to send four tall defenders to attack a corner if those are the only tall players in the team.

2) allow players to set up on the edges of the goal posts during corner kicks. At the moment one fullback is positioned at the near post, leaving the far post completely exposed. Players should be able to allow any outfield players to guard the posts if they choose, especially if some teams aren't blessed with height (e.g. Arsenal).

Does anyone have an opinion on the addition on zonal marking or man to man defending? Would it add substantial depth to the set piece system already in place?

Perhaps a Fifa style set-piece editor is needed? I do find it a little frustrating that I can't instruct the players I want to attack corners and free-kicks. I want my tall defenders in the penalty area and looking for headers. And likewise, I should be able to tell my team how to line-up when defending a corner.

Zonal or man-to-man marking at set-pieces would be a nice optional extra, though how many people would use zonal marking at corners is another matter.

On a slightly different point, Konami - can we have the 'covering' option back please?

 

[Lami]

Don't we have the covering option in 2010 now though?

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Don't we have the covering option in 2010 now though?

Yes we do. But it's Player Card related, the same as Man Marking. The top defenders or DMF's have the card, or you can train them on in it in your ML.

I would like to see a Training Ground Facility for the ML though, so you can practice with youur team, set-pieces, etc etc.

 

[tc811]

I would like to see a Training Ground Facility for the ML though, so you can practice with youur team, set-pieces, etc etc.

You can load your ML team in training mode and play that way, but it would be more convenient if training were integrated into ML like in PES5/WE9. Does anyone else think training mode should have a multiplayer option? It seems like the feature wouldn't be too difficult to implement.

Perhaps a Fifa style set-piece editor is needed?

Seems like a plan to me, but not even FIFA implemented the changes I mentioned (at least not on the defensive side of set pieces). I remember you can only set which players you want to run and attack the ball on offensive corners.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

You can load your ML team in training mode and play that way, but it would be more convenient if training were integrated into ML like in PES5/WE9. Does anyone else think training mode should have a multiplayer option? It seems like the feature wouldn't be too difficult to implement.



Seems like a plan to me, but not even FIFA implemented the changes I mentioned (at least not on the defensive side of set pieces). I remember you can only set which players you want to run and attack the ball on offensive corners.

I didnt know that, thanks TC, that solves my problem bud.

 

[iluvnineties]

When is PES11 due for release...?? October/November...damn still long time to wait. Luckily, UFC 2010 is around the corner and it looks real good.

 

[Aqua]

@ last signatur

coz konami know...people SUCK

 

[ono5985]

I'm going to chime in with my two cents now...

As mentioned already, i have previously released 'edits' for player attributes in both Fifa and PES. The main reason being, both games are too fast. Far too fast in fact.

What i have noticed is that PES10, when edited in a certain way, feels similar to the older versions (which i enjoyed thoroughly). This can be a good thing because it means i can play the game at its peak, with breath-takingly good graphics ( i play on the PC, but was previously on the PS3. - If you think PS3 graphics are impressive..... It can also be a bad thing, because it highlights that Konami haven't really evolved the series for the better.

With all that said, i believe the way forward for both Fifa and PES would be to let the customer personalise the game. My idea of a football sim will be different to yours, and i'm sure it will be different to the developers and programmers. So, rather than aiming for some sort of middle ground, surely Konami can release something which allows customisation. Maybe incorporate sliders for running speed, passing speed, AI aggression etc...

I'm lucky that i can play on the pc as so many people have released patches and editors that allow such customisations to take place. For me, this is the one thing that stops me from playing PES 10 on the PS3 and is the main reason i traded Fifa 10 in.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the game is perfect. Even with hours and hours of editing, there are certain aspects of the game that cannot be fixed. For example, the goalkeepers and in particular their animations. Sometimes they look good, but other times they look appalling. The other major problems are based around AI. The computer AI sit back and allow you to run at them until you reach the area. This creates a bottleneck around the penalty area. As a result through balls are no longer defence splittingly satisfying, as it seems a total lottery as to how your striker will respond to it. The joy of the older versions was the fact that you could split the backline with a through ball and you could slide the ball home under neath the keepers dive. The other problem is player movement, mainly off the ball. It's not intelligent enough, and i'd love it if Konami could use off the ball intelligence as a way to distinguish between good players and world class player. At the minute it seems that speed is the main difference, which makes the game feel more arcadey. I'd love to seem them implement passing traingles and players making dummy runs.

All in all, i don't think PES 10 is a million miles away from being a top class footy game. It's certainly held my attention over Fifa 10, and that was after me playing Fifa09 for a solid year, which was a very good game. Much slower paced than Fifa10, and i didn't feel i could slalem from end to the other in around 4 seconds.

The one thing PES has over Fifa is the fist clenching satisfaction of scoring a goal, which to me is the most important element of any football game. Unless EA manage to fix the 'meh' feeling of scoring a goal, Konami will always have the edge in my opinion. And with that in mind, i look forward to PES 11.

 

[klashman69]

I'm going to chime in with my two cents now...

As mentioned already, i have previously released 'edits' for player attributes in both Fifa and PES. The main reason being, both games are too fast. Far too fast in fact.

What i have noticed is that PES10, when edited in a certain way, feels similar to the older versions (which i enjoyed thoroughly). This can be a good thing because it means i can play the game at its peak, with breath-takingly good graphics ( i play on the PC, but was previously on the PS3. - If you think PS3 graphics are impressive..... It can also be a bad thing, because it highlights that Konami haven't really evolved the series for the better.

With all that said, i believe the way forward for both Fifa and PES would be to let the customer personalise the game. My idea of a football sim will be different to yours, and i'm sure it will be different to the developers and programmers. So, rather than aiming for some sort of middle ground, surely Konami can release something which allows customisation. Maybe incorporate sliders for running speed, passing speed, AI aggression etc...

I'm lucky that i can play on the pc as so many people have released patches and editors that allow such customisations to take place. For me, this is the one thing that stops me from playing PES 10 on the PS3 and is the main reason i traded Fifa 10 in.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the game is perfect. Even with hours and hours of editing, there are certain aspects of the game that cannot be fixed. For example, the goalkeepers and in particular their animations. Sometimes they look good, but other times they look appalling. The other major problems are based around AI. The computer AI sit back and allow you to run at them until you reach the area. This creates a bottleneck around the penalty area. As a result through balls are no longer defence splittingly satisfying, as it seems a total lottery as to how your striker will respond to it. The joy of the older versions was the fact that you could split the backline with a through ball and you could slide the ball home under neath the keepers dive. The other problem is player movement, mainly off the ball. It's not intelligent enough, and i'd love it if Konami could use off the ball intelligence as a way to distinguish between good players and world class player. At the minute it seems that speed is the main difference, which makes the game feel more arcadey. I'd love to seem them implement passing traingles and players making dummy runs.

All in all, i don't think PES 10 is a million miles away from being a top class footy game. It's certainly held my attention over Fifa 10, and that was after me playing Fifa09 for a solid year, which was a very good game. Much slower paced than Fifa10, and i didn't feel i could slalem from end to the other in around 4 seconds.

The one thing PES has over Fifa is the fist clenching satisfaction of scoring a goal, which to me is the most important element of any football game. Unless EA manage to fix the 'meh' feeling of scoring a goal, Konami will always have the edge in my opinion. And with that in mind, i look forward to PES 11.

Nice, post, i tried your gameplay, it was good but took away certian stuff in which i feel is essential for me. (crap 1st touches, defenders turning like buses)

Although one thing we need to see back is close control when moving at a VERY slow pace like in PES 6 (i literally mean like when you used to hold the L2 or R2 button, that control) But the turning like buses for average players needs to be kept when running at normal speed.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the game is perfect. Even with hours and hours of editing, there are certain aspects of the game that cannot be fixed. For example, the goalkeepers and in particular their animations. Sometimes they look good, but other times they look appalling. The other major problems are based around AI. The computer AI sit back and allow you to run at them until you reach the area. This creates a bottleneck around the penalty area. As a result through balls are no longer defence splittingly satisfying, as it seems a total lottery as to how your striker will respond to it.

Thing is i just realised this isn't much of ai problem at all.

YouTube - FC Barcelona vs Vfb Stuttgart L.Messi 1st Goal [1080p HD]

Stuttgart do the same thing here that the defensive AI does in PES, difference is that before the 1.03 long shots were far too easy and the defensive midfielder wasn’t effective enough.

How the AI is set up is for the back 4 to drop off and protect he penalty area whilst the defensive midfielder chases the breakaway player. I like this system, but what should change is getting the AI to elect one player in the back four to at least close down the breakaway player. At the moment in PES the back 4 just leave it all for the defensive midfielder.

The joy of the older versions was the fact that you could split the backline with a through ball and you could slide the ball home under neath the keepers dive. The other problem is player movement, mainly off the ball. It's not intelligent enough, and i'd love it if Konami could use off the ball intelligence as a way to distinguish between good players and world class player.

I'm still able to do this a lot, but unlike in previous versions certain teams like Barca, Arsenal, Valencia and especially Villarreal, they do it more that the standard team will do, you also really need to have a good passer, it's essential for these passes, someone like David Silva is very consistent with his passing and I’ve scored 2 goals the other day which split my mates defense :lol:

Would show a video demonstrating it but it's blocked by Youtube (fucking WMG!)

Also if i ever upload some of my Sampdoria highlights i show you that Konami have been working extensively it seems on off the ball movement, there a goal I scored with Pazzini which was quite scarily lifelike, his off the ball movement in being a total nuisance (he plays like inzaghi so he runs about the backline) in which he managed to lose his marker, find space and score from just outside the area with a low shot, the 'fox in the box' is just one example on how to utilize the Ai off the ball movement.

There seems to be a big difference between most if not all strikers in the way they play, or maybe it's just me but it's taken me a long while to notice this (shows the amount of depth in PES 2010).

 

[ono5985]

Yeah i realised that certain players need a crap first touch just because it's realistic. However, whilst understanding what Konami have tried to do, i think they've applied it a little too much. I agree about the slow control. It's essential imo.

Point taken regarding the Stuttgart defending, and i realise it does happen. However, i'd like to see some variety. It feels predictable that once i cross the halfway line, the AI will back off..

Maybe it's just me who's not experienced the joy of the through ball yet. Too much time editing and not enough time playing!Lol. Maybe i need to work on the counter attack a little more.

I agree about the individuality of PES10. It gives the game life and i love how spontaneous the gameplay can be at times. Something that Fifa 10 lacked for me.

From reading your post it seems you're really enjoying the game, and mainly for the same reasons as me, which is good.

 

[klashman69]

Yeah i realised that certain players need a crap first touch just because it's realistic. However, whilst understanding what Konami have tried to do, i think they've applied it a little too much. I agree about the slow control. It's essential imo.

Point taken regarding the Stuttgart defending, and i realise it does happen. However, i'd like to see some variety. It feels predictable that once i cross the halfway line, the AI will back off..

Maybe it's just me who's not experienced the joy of the through ball yet. Too much time editing and not enough time playing!Lol. Maybe i need to work on the counter attack a little more.

I agree about the individuality of PES10. It gives the game life and i love how spontaneous the gameplay can be at times. Something that Fifa 10 lacked for me.

From reading your post it seems you're really enjoying the game, and mainly for the same reasons as me, which is good.

Yeah i think your right there, it dosen't happen every game but it does get a bit predicatable, the best thing is after the 1.03 it's actually hard to exploit

Even though i don't play PES 2010 that much really (one big session every 1-2 weeks) what defines the game is how such simple lifelike goals i score on PES are so rewarding. You don't have to make a effort hardly for it to play out realsitic. Even when the ref's are fucked, fluidity is bad and the goalkeepers are terrible at times.

 

[Aqua]

Although one thing we need to see back is close control when moving at a VERY slow pace like in PES 6 (i literally mean like when you used to hold the L2 or R2 button, that control) But the turning like buses for average players needs to be kept when running at normal speed.

if im understandin u right, then i think u can still do it like in the past games


hold r2 and player gets to a close control mode kinda thing...

 

[Punzz]

Haven't been on this site since the release of PES2010. Nice to see a few regulars still post

 

[klashman69]

if im understandin u right, then i think u can still do it like in the past games


hold r2 and player gets to a close control mode kinda thing...

Yes but it's not as responsive as PES6 was in terms of very close control, also the depth in close control isan't nearly as vast and certianly isn't fluid at all compared to PES6, also prefer for Konami to go back to the right stick for skills (not for feints but skills yes )

Still the rest of the game is really a lot more advanced than PES6, The right balance for PES 11 is to give top techincal players (all over 80/85) the same close control like as PES6 and i just mean close control (L2, R2)

 

[Aqua]

im sure u have some lag input/screen issues coz i havent got that problem

fast n good technique players are same responsive as pes6 or earlier ...
no matter with or without this close control thing

i dunno lets say the whole gunners offense is like that /w.o bendtner

 

[klashman69]

im sure u have some lag input/screen issues coz i havent got that problem

fast n good technique players are same responsive as pes6 or earlier ...
no matter with or without this close control thing

i dunno lets say the whole gunners offense is like that /w.o bendtner

lol i'm not saying i can't control them, i can, it's just it's clear the system in place fro PES 2010 is totally new and 100% different compared to PES6. The close control in PES 2010 is nice, but basic compared to PES6, especially holding down L2, this, really needs to be brought back.