PES 2011 Discussion thread

[PRO_TOO]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

like the discussion!

so there will be no new engine for the 2011 version?! so where is the point when konami decides to start up with a new (ps3 optimized / maybe exclsuive) engine for the pes series? they just cant go on adding and improving animations. thats way too "cheap".

another letdown would be the emplimentation of the ps move controller to copy the wii gameplay. that would deffinitly be another year wasted for refinement instead of searching/creating the true formula for success on the ps3; a new engine - designed the unleash the power of the ps3!

konami should entirly focus on the basic game and let the community do the patches for kits and stuff.

just my 2 cents...
ps move excuse for really reinventing the game aka taking that step in the right direction/generation.

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Hmm you opened a interesting debate here , i've noticed heavily after playing with ono's gameplay global edits the game plays pretty much exactly like PES6, this in a way is bad for Konami in the sense that there a so many people out there who love PEs6 but hate pes2010

In a marketing sense. If they give us a choice even in settings to modify our own style of gameplay to suit our needs those people who love PES5 PES6 etc if that was available to people the series would be in better shape that it is now, woldn't recieve as much critisisum and would have a lot more people playing it.

I mean this could be done very, very easily, it's almost like Konami have these hidden sliders which tweak the power of attribues.I rememebr when patching fifa on the pc you could actually edit the gameplay code without having to use global editing to make the game more realisitc, there must be a way to do this in PES?



In terms of animations, player physics, natural human behaviour, no Easily no but still somehow holds its own since although FIFA 08 was better in these aspects it was rather basic, FIFA 10's has technically the best animations but it's put together horribly

In terms of tactics, gameplay balance, AI intelligence, player attributes PES is MILES ahead! And i really mean many, many MILES!

Thing is 75% of people really just care about animations and fluidity and couldn't care much about tactics and individuallity. With the casual players thats fine, i totally agree but it's those crazy people who believe FIFA 10 is realisitc is what baffs me.

This is definitely what konami have been doing for a number of years.

They use the same engine and players stats stay the same, but the hidden factor that applies them to the game play is tweaked slightly. I just think the people who did the tweaking last year and the year before got it wrong.

 

[Lami]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

You started the PS3 exclusivity subject!

Perhaps we need a separate thread on the subject? Anyway, there's a lot of good discussion here for a change.

Only intended PES+PS3 exclusivity

I know it is a "news and rumours" thread, but lets be honest here, we can't keep the debates out, which eventually means mentioning Fifa, its inevitable. So its all ok as long as we all keep our cool. Plus, we already have a thread for news only. Don't think there's the need to open another thread for debates.

On another note, I'm thinking of changing this thread's title to PES 2011 Discussions thread. Should suit all the debates better.

 

[klashman69]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

lol, nothing like a made up statistic to suit your beliefs then

anyway, klashman ... why do think more & more people are leaving PES and are becoming more & more disillusioned with the franchise? I just want to hear your take mate. Bare in mind most PS2 era PES players loathed FIFA and believed PES was THE out and out football game to get, are they just crazy?

If course it's made up statistic , it’s just me taking into account that I believe that you can't just look to the internet when it comes to peoples views on PES and FIFA, you need to think about your friends and people you talk to outside.

I was exactly like you in being totally disillusioned with PES from 2008 and 2009 it's just I give every game a chance and look at it in more aspects than most, this is because I’m not a gamer and I just play football games so I tend to analyze the game in almost every aspect rather than just the stuff that appeals to my taste.

Many of me friends still won't even touch FIFA, my mate from uni gets irate just playing the game. Irony is even though the barley plays it, he's pretty good and even beat my other mate once in a series of 5-6 games. Most of my mates who play fifa aren't gamers either and just play for a bit of fun, the one that loves football and fifa 10 does ridiculous stuff such as bringing the keeper out to the halfway line all the time (even if he is good)

In internet terms, the former hardcore PES players who have left, i see why they see PES going nowhere, PES 2008 was crap, PES 2009 was as well, When they see the robotic animations and played the 60% or whatever finished demo who loads of bugs you can see why they think PES is completely dead. The game straight out of the box had it's issues as well, thank god for the 1.03 patch .

But like I said before, I saw the football aspects such as tactics, game balance etc... Which FIFA was clearly neglecting and going back down its arcadey route. So I gave it a chance and if you play the game for what it is and don't worry about its basic animation system you will enjoy it.

I'm playing in manager mode with Sampdoria, I’m in November now and I really enjoying the season so far, every player is totally different, EVERY match has not only been different but has throw at me different challenges in terms of tactics, in which I like trying to out think the opposition. This is the ONLY game I have played in years in which I have to resort to at times to playing long balls for the striker to hold up and try and work something. I find that highly realistic since only a handful of teams (Arsenal, Barca, Valencia, Villarreal) can break down teams from playing football all the time. In FIFA 10 I can’t break down teams playing like Barca with Barnet, enough said about that

I feel finally after 4 years PES is heading in the right direction.

 

[klashman69]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Can you stop this childish provocation ?

You trying to believe yourself that Fifa is bla bla bla ? its boring mate , its boring

Whats even more boring is this pathetic witch hunt you are on to try and attack anyone who dosen't like FIFA 10 (For valiud reasons) and put your silly points across about FIFA 10 being some perfect simulation game.

You lost that argument last year mate, just stop.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

If course it's made up statistic , it’s just me taking into account that I believe that you can't just look to the internet when it comes to peoples views on PES and FIFA, you need to think about your friends and people you talk to outside.

I was exactly like you in being totally disillusioned with PES from 2008 and 2009 it's just I give every game a chance and look at it in more aspects than most, this is because I’m not a gamer and I just play football games so I tend to analyze the game in almost every aspect rather than just the stuff that appeals to my taste.

Many of me friends still won't even touch FIFA, my mate from uni gets irate just playing the game. Irony is even though the barley plays it, he's pretty good and even beat my other mate once in a series of 5-6 games. Most of my mates who play fifa aren't gamers either and just play for a bit of fun, the one that loves football and fifa 10 does ridiculous stuff such as bringing the keeper out to the halfway line all the time (even if he is good)

In internet terms, the former hardcore PES players who have left, i see why they see PES going nowhere, PES 2008 was crap, PES 2009 was as well, When they see the robotic animations and played the 60% or whatever finished demo who loads of bugs you can see why they think PES is completely dead. The game straight out of the box had it's issues as well, thank god for the 1.03 patch .

But like I said before, I saw the football aspects such as tactics, game balance etc... Which FIFA was clearly neglecting and going back down its arcadey route. So I gave it a chance and if you play the game for what it is and don't worry about its basic animation system you will enjoy it.

I'm playing in manager mode with Sampdoria, I’m in November now and I really enjoying the season so far, every player is totally different, EVERY match has not only been different but has throw at me different challenges in terms of tactics, in which I like trying to out think the opposition. This is the ONLY game I have played in years in which I have to resort to at times to playing long balls for the striker to hold up and try and work something. I find that highly realistic since only a handful of teams (Arsenal, Barca, Valencia, Villarreal) can break down teams from playing football all the time. In FIFA 10 I can’t break down teams playing like Barca with Barnet, enough said about that

I feel finally after 4 years PES is heading in the right direction.

+1

I totally agree and respect everything you have written there. You just cant educate some people, they can either see it, or they cant. I have learnt that over my many years here. We can break it down as technically as possible, it will still never sink in, some 'gamers' just dont understand the basic fundementals of football. Period. Those who do, appreciate PES for exactly what it is.

 

[Audiard]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Yes I do appreciate PES....as an expensive coaster to rest my cup of tea on. Seriously have the anti-FIFA people ever tried setting up their own formations, changing the custom tactics to realistic values and playing on manual settings at a decent level of difficulty?

One thing that really annoys me is the old trope that on manual "all the players are the same" it obvious such people have not played FIFA10 very extensively. I have, for example, try doing a season with average players such as with SPL team or a Swiss team. Then play with Real Madrid. The difference in how easy it is to get the ball on target etc., is massive.

 

[klashman69]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

+1

I totally agree and respect everything you have written there. You just cant educate some people, they can either see it, or they cant. I have learnt that over my many years here. We can break it down as technically as possible, it will still never sink in, some 'gamers' just dont understand the basic fundementals of football. Period. Those who do, appreciate PES for exactly what it is.

I've seen a lot of your posts on here and i agree with pretty much everything you say aswell

If you look at best games out there. What the all seem to have in common is fluidity! FIFA 10 does this better than Most games and any football game out there so thats the method of getting people to love the game and MOST importantly for EA is to get them that 'overall 90' score from critics, thats what is the most important thing for EA.

Personally i can't see the need for EA to change their stance of making this the perfect arcadey football game? FIFA 10 was a huge success for them so why change it to a simulation to satisfy a handful of hardcore players?

Konami and Seabass know that after creating stupid games with PES 2008 and 2009 thier market now is pretty much the hardcore football fans, since unlike with the PS2 days when their game was more responsive and fluid than FIFA, they can only at best match EA in terms of fluidity.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Yes I do appreciate PES....as an expensive coaster to rest my cup of tea on. Seriously have the anti-FIFA people ever tried setting up their own formations, changing the custom tactics to realistic values and playing on manual settings at a decent level of difficulty?

One thing that really annoys me is the old trope that on manual "all the players are the same" it obvious such people have not played FIFA10 very extensively. I have, for example, try doing a season with average players such as with SPL team or a Swiss team. Then play with Real Madrid. The difference in how easy it is to get the ball on target etc., is massive.

Thats exactly why EA make Fifa, for the likes of you. Enjoy.

 

[klashman69]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Yes I do appreciate PES....as an expensive coaster to rest my cup of tea on. Seriously have the anti-FIFA people ever tried setting up their own formations, changing the custom tactics to realistic values and playing on manual settings at a decent level of difficulty?

One thing that really annoys me is the old trope that on manual "all the players are the same" it obvious such people have not played FIFA10 very extensively. I have, for example, try doing a season with average players such as with SPL team or a Swiss team. Then play with Real Madrid. The difference in how easy it is to get the ball on target etc., is massive.

No, it isn’t it's exactly the same! I doubt you will listen since you manual people get very defensive and even emotional at times about how 'amazing' the game is on it. I played four matches with this very good manual player called Milton86, he used Athletic Bilbao, Sevilla, Viacenza (I think) and a league 2 team I can’t remember (I think it was Barnet or Cheltenham) respectively.

In EVERY SINGLE GAME HE PLAYED THE EXACT SAME WAY, passed it nicely to the forward, then used the ice skating control 'skilled dribbling' to try and work and opening. Not to mention I was still easily able to score a chip from 40 yards again in the second match, even on full manual.

I played manual to the death on 09 and played manual a lot until I sold FIFA 10 back in November. I remember that one very good Finnish player said that Papa Bouba Diop is the best midfielder on the game on manual since passing is the same with everyone and he's bigger and stronger than any other centre mid.

Manual is just an enjoyable alternative way to play FIFA, it's making a arcade game more difficult and adding more factors to do with your skill of aiming with the left stick. It's not realistic but it's a gamers game. The reason why the game is really hard vs the CPU on manual is because all they do is pressure, pressure and PRESSURE where as in PES the CPU works out the best tactic to beat you. So what’s stopping you from beating the CPU is how well you can aim your passes, not to mention on world class and legendry the CPU's passing is perfect, In fact

look at the balance there when playing on manual vs the CPU. You have to aim perfectly to make a pass yet the CPU can do passes with ease, realism? Seriously? It’s a nice challenge but I know from experience it gets tedious and very boring over a period of time since all the CPU teams play the same way (exactly the same way) and every match is pretty much the same.

I didn't know it should be extremely hard for professionals to actually get a shot on target because I’ve seen when I was playing football part time centre backs score goals from 30 yards playing amateur football

So, actually i do know a lot about this game and how it works and i'm not just being ignorant or being a fanboy.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I've mentioned this before about fully manual being a gamers choice, as it relys on your skill as a gamer to judge the power bar. Once you have that cracked, thats it. Although the feeling may be very rewarding, it's all pre-ordained. The skill for the gamer in PES is being able to recognise the strengths and weaknessess of the players you control, and making the right choices at the right times. This obviously works at its best offline against the CPU, as the online experience is still spoilt by the Super Teams and the shitty regular AI default setting.

I can see this thread being over-run, like it is, year in year out, with the PES haters.

 

[klashman69]

I've mentioned this before about fully manual being a gamers choice, as it relys on your skill as a gamer to judge the power bar. Once you have that cracked, thats it. Although the feeling may be very rewarding, it's all pre-ordained. The skill for the gamer in PES is being able to recognise the strengths and weaknessess of the players you control, and making the right choices at the right times. This obviously works at its best offline against the CPU, as the online experience is still spoilt by the Super Teams and the shitty regular AI default setting.

I can see this thread being over-run, like it is, year in year out, with the PES haters.

What the hell? why have Konami set the online level to that for? A two year old could score on that level? Madness, glad i don't play online and just play vs mmates and the CPU

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

What the hell? why have Konami set the online level to that for? A two year old could score on that level? Madness, glad i don't play online and just play vs mmates and the CPU

Fuck knows !!??? All it does is ensure that the Madrid and Barcelona 'Sprint Boys' can run at your hapless defenders and pass them before you can even gain control of them. Pathetic. Online is best played within a Community on Top Player AI. Sprinting on Top Player against the CPU offline gets you no-where. This is how it should be. When you sprint in real life, unless your name is Cristiano or Lionel, then the ball will always be so far out of your feet that your always liable for the interception. Hence the term, showing the opposition too much of the ball.

 

[klashman69]

Fuck knows !!??? All it does is ensure that the Madrid and Barcelona 'Sprint Boys' can run at your hapless defenders and pass them before you can even gain control of them. Pathetic. Online is best played within a Community on Top Player AI. Sprinting on Top Player against the CPU offline gets you no-where. This is how it should be. When you sprint in real life, unless your name is Cristiano or Lionel, then the ball will always be so far out of your feet that your always liable for the interception. Hence the term, showing the opposition too much of the ball.

Agree, also i just found this on a football discussion website
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu1VlROALUA&feature=player_embedded#


watch the ball Marquez plays at 1.52 another of many different things which reminds me of what happeneds on PES. Playing the ball long with a great passer is a weapon on PES, as is hoofing it long as well lol. On fifa, nobody does this since there is no need to.

 

[Jamezinho]

But like I said before, I saw the football aspects such as tactics, game balance etc... Which FIFA was clearly neglecting and going back down its arcadey route. So I gave it a chance and if you play the game for what it is and don't worry about its basic animation system you will enjoy it.

Well said.

I remember that one very good Finnish player said that Papa Bouba Diop is the best midfielder on the game on manual since passing is the same with everyone and he's bigger and stronger than any other centre mid.

Herein lies the problem with Fifa.

I've mentioned this before about fully manual being a gamers choice, as it relys on your skill as a gamer to judge the power bar. Once you have that cracked, thats it. Although the feeling may be very rewarding, it's all pre-ordained. The skill for the gamer in PES is being able to recognise the strengths and weaknesses of the players you control, and making the right choices at the right times.

....and that's what a football game should be about. PES may be assisted but it doesn't play itself. Success depends on tactics and playing the right style of football for the players in your team.

 

[Dusse]

Well, if you like quick time events based games like Heavy Rain, then I'm sure you can enjoy PES. Myself I like to actually control what I'm doing.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Well, if you like quick time events based games like Heavy Rain, then I'm sure you can enjoy PES. Myself I like to actually control what I'm doing.

I prefer to control the footballer, and let his relevant skills, attributes and current form be the deciding factors of any given outcome. In this scenario, nothing is ever a certainty, anything can happen, because as we all know,......... 'They are no guarantees in Football'.

And I have said this so many times, I'm beginning to bore myself now.

 

[Jamezinho]

Well, if you like quick time events based games like Heavy Rain, then I'm sure you can enjoy PES. Myself I like to actually control what I'm doing.

I suppose it depends if you want to make the game clinical and predictable, or exciting, eventful and unpredictable, like the sport of football itself.

 

[DagsJT]

or exciting, eventful and unpredictable, like the sport of football itself.

Not if you're a Liverpool fan

 

[tc811]

Ugh all these pro-FIFA comments make my head asplode...

FIFA has no first touch system in place. Every player is equally skilled in turning and timing his control of the ball, so I don't think ping-pong passing will ever be eradicated from that game even with these proposed changes here:

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1886487&postcount=83

he could have taken that first touch back towards his defence and then turned around, but in the time that would have taken the passing option forward would most likely have gone, or he would have been harried by the midfielder (Davies?), meaning he'd really have to play the ball back to someone in defence

already possible

"Instead, how about 3:30 - Evra passes to Scholes, Scholes then actively lets the ball run across him and steps back so he can hit a long ball to the opposite flank. If he had taken a touch forwards and tried it, he would be splattered by the Stoke midfielder (who, you can see, is right up on him by the time he hits the ball). If he had just hit it first time without adjusting it would have been on his weaker left foot and he would have had an entirely different DCAP available."

let's not forget FIFA doesn't even take weak foot accuracy/frequency into account...

"All of this, I think, can be done with just the left stick, with things like letting the ball actively roll past you being perhaps sprint and the direction the ball is rolling.

Maybe you could use a button to actively unlock yourself from the ball, but I haven't quite thought which button! I personally think pressing a button would make it less intuitive and organic than it should be, but it depends how well it works out as a default action."

in PES, you can time the button press of R1 or R2 (or just "flick" the stick in that direction!) as the ball is passing the player, and the player will let the ball run past him.

Does anyone else think I'm crazy for noticing these things?

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Ugh all these pro-FIFA comments make my head asplode...

FIFA has no first touch system in place. Every player is equally skilled in turning and timing his control of the ball, so I don't think ping-pong passing will ever be eradicated from that game even with these proposed changes here:

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1886487&postcount=83


already possible


let's not forget FIFA doesn't even take weak foot accuracy/frequency into account...



in PES, you can time the button press of R1 or R2 (or just "flick" the stick in that direction!) as the ball is passing the player, and the player will let the ball run past him.

Does anyone else think I'm crazy for noticing these things?

Not at all mate, you just know what your looking for. Thats the difference.

 

[Audiard]

I presume if someone could be bothered to look they could find quotes from Jimmy G-Force et al., extolling the virtues of PES2008 and how "realistic" it was.

And the I like the little snidey "gamers" comment - guess what matey when you play PES YOUR FECKING SITTING DOWN WITH A CONSOLE OR PC - YOU ARE AS MUCH A GAMER AS ANYONE ELSE!!!

And of course St. Mirren and Barcalona are extactly the same on FIFA10 - if you're blind and deaf. Geez Jesus wept.

Try an experiment with FIFA10 custom tactics. Put all the values to 1 on one tactic (custom tactics 1) and put all the sliders to 100 on another tactic (custom tactics 2) - play team A versus team B (the CPU) with team B on custom tactics 1...then try another game with team B on custom tactics 2 - there will be very noticable differences in team B and the way they play. Go on try it.

 

[Audiard]

In FIFA10 players can leave a ball as well.

 

[Lami]

PES v Fifa debates without flaming are welcome.

Fifa preaching isn't.

Double checking...

 

[TanMak]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

If course it's made up statistic , it’s just me taking into account that I believe that you can't just look to the internet when it comes to peoples views on PES and FIFA, you need to think about your friends and people you talk to outside.

I was exactly like you in being totally disillusioned with PES from 2008 and 2009 it's just I give every game a chance and look at it in more aspects than most, this is because I’m not a gamer and I just play football games so I tend to analyze the game in almost every aspect rather than just the stuff that appeals to my taste.

Yes it is a fictional statistic, I've already covered and scrutinized the problems of PES so there's no need for repetition really. Ok this whole elitism of I'm a really a real real footballer, I'm not a gamer, I consider more things when playing, I'm more observant etc etc Is nothing more than qualifying one's self above others' statements so I'm not taking any of it seriously at all, sorry.

Many of me friends still won't even touch FIFA, my mate from uni gets irate just playing the game. Irony is even though the barley plays it, he's pretty good and even beat my other mate once in a series of 5-6 games. Most of my mates who play fifa aren't gamers either and just play for a bit of fun, the one that loves football and fifa 10 does ridiculous stuff such as bringing the keeper out to the halfway line all the time (even if he is good)

Ok, so some non FIFA players beat each other and the one guy who does play FIFA regularly applies foolish antics (halfway line keeper) ... ? No offense but that's all I'm getting from this story.

In internet terms, the former hardcore PES players who have left, i see why they see PES going nowhere, PES 2008 was crap, PES 2009 was as well, When they see the robotic animations and played the 60% or whatever finished demo who loads of bugs you can see why they think PES is completely dead. The game straight out of the box had it's issues as well, thank god for the 1.03 patch .

Sounds very logical to me, although I'm still trying to figure out the whole 'internet terms' thing. I'm also one of these former PES players that have been forced to leave PES. When the demo came out I was shocked at the appalling production values even for a demo. Incomplete animations, abhorrent player movement/reactions, dated collisions, angular/rigid/turgid structure, unrealistic relations between actions and animations (ie. that 40 yard Messi cross with the outside foot), very little contextual player actions, unresponsiveness, arcade ball physics, unacceptable GKs & refs, cheap AI, etc etc etc.

As it was indeed a demo I hoped these things would be rectified and ironically I still found the game quite enjoyable the more I played it - the demo. Problem is the final product wasn't as fun as the AI was worse and all the problems the demo had were still in there. This leaves PES '10 as a very buggy & glitchy game built on dated code. So if you claim the demo was 60% of the product then that's just it, this game is unfinished. PES 08 & 09 had fundamental gameplay issues which PES 10 has evolved from, this alone is an unfortunate state of affairs but when you consider how unfinished the game is it's no wonder there's a one way steady migration between the games. Saying former PES player who migrated are suddenly after sweet zany liquid smooth animations, scissor kicks & are devoid of tactial nous etc is a cop-out.

So you definitely see why some think PES is going nowhere fast and yet you think it's a 'return to form' with great promise. I just can't understand that unless you don't find said issues a problem for YOU ... but you did say you like how the defenders with low dribbling move in that 'special' fashion so maybe therein lies the fundamental differences between the PES domestics and the migraters.

But like I said before, I saw the football aspects such as tactics, game balance etc... Which FIFA was clearly neglecting and going back down its arcadey route. So I gave it a chance and if you play the game for what it is and don't worry about its basic animation system you will enjoy it.

'sigh' Case in point

And I have said this so many times, I'm beginning to bore myself now.

Must. Resist. To. Comment.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I presume if someone could be bothered to look they could find quotes from Jimmy G-Force et al., extolling the virtues of PES2008 and how "realistic" it was.

And the I like the little snidey "gamers" comment - guess what matey when you play PES YOUR FECKING SITTING DOWN WITH A CONSOLE OR PC - YOU ARE AS MUCH A GAMER AS ANYONE ELSE!!!

And of course St. Mirren and Barcalona are extactly the same on FIFA10 - if you're blind and deaf. Geez Jesus wept.

Try an experiment with FIFA10 custom tactics. Put all the values to 1 on one tactic (custom tactics 1) and put all the sliders to 100 on another tactic (custom tactics 2) - play team A versus team B (the CPU) with team B on custom tactics 1...then try another game with team B on custom tactics 2 - there will be very noticable differences in team B and the way they play. Go on try it.

I think you will find you wont, I hated PES 2008 and have slated it from day one. You wont find one post from me saying anything positive about that game. Next.

 

[el_turqo]

please epl,bundenliga,la liga and tsl

 

[TanMak]

please epl,bundenliga,la liga and tsl

Not a chance in hell, what's more likelier to that notion is more leagues being dropped to the 'Rest of World' category.

 

[Dr Force]

Lami now a mod

Hope you are all well.........I'll think I'll wait until June to add comments in this thread.....just a tad too early

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Yes it is a fictional statistic, I've already covered and scrutinized the problems of PES so there's no need for repetition really. Ok this whole elitism of I'm a really a real real footballer, I'm not a gamer, I consider more things when playing, I'm more observant etc etc Is nothing more than qualifying one's self above others' statements so I'm not taking any of it seriously at all, sorry.



Ok, so some non FIFA players beat each other and the one guy who does play FIFA regularly applies foolish antics (halfway line keeper) ... ? No offense but that's all I'm getting from this story.



Sounds very logical to me, although I'm still trying to figure out the whole 'internet terms' thing. I'm also one of these former PES players that have been forced to leave PES. When the demo came out I was shocked at the appalling production values even for a demo. Incomplete animations, abhorrent player movement/reactions, dated collisions, angular/rigid/turgid structure, unrealistic relations between actions and animations (ie. that 40 yard Messi cross with the outside foot), very little contextual player actions, unresponsiveness, arcade ball physics, unacceptable GKs & refs, cheap AI, etc etc etc.

As it was indeed a demo I hoped these things would be rectified and ironically I still found the game quite enjoyable the more I played it - the demo. Problem is the final product wasn't as fun as the AI was worse and all the problems the demo had were still in there. This leaves PES '10 as a very buggy & glitchy game built on dated code. So if you claim the demo was 60% of the product then that's just it, this game is unfinished. PES 08 & 09 had fundamental gameplay issues which PES 10 has evolved from, this alone is an unfortunate state of affairs but when you consider how unfinished the game is it's no wonder there's a one way steady migration between the games. Saying former PES player who migrated are suddenly after sweet zany liquid smooth animations, scissor kicks & are devoid of tactial nous etc is a cop-out.

So you definitely see why some think PES is going nowhere fast and yet you think it's a 'return to form' with great promise. I just can't understand that unless you don't find said issues a problem for YOU ... but you did say you like how the defenders with low dribbling move in that 'special' fashion so maybe therein lies the fundamental differences between the PES domestics and the migraters.



'sigh' Case in point




Must. Resist. To. Comment.

Why do you bother writing these essays on a game you dont like ?

Surely you have better things to be doing, like playing FIFA 10 maybe ?