PES 2011 Discussion thread

Couldn't care less how nets look tbh, as long as they react realistically.
 
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Lami said:
Couldn't care less how nets look tbh, as long as they react realistically.
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Spot on! This nets talk must end... Konami needs to sort the gameplay, ai, animations and many other things before we can start requesting nets, balls , socks, hats, pijamas, blankets and so on... really guys give it a rest.
 
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@shorty alien. I know and use the depth of the fantastic tactic system in PES 2010. But this is my point, the AI just needs to push me into adapting and changing my style of play.
 
romagnoli said:
Expander - I don't think PES's pressuring idea is that bad - it does make sense in a way, as it's intuitive to press towards the ball if you want to challenge and away if you want to backpedal - but to me it fails as soon as you're side-by-side with your opponent, trying to win the ball. Or at least, that's when the system has a problem to overcome.

I also agree that it'd be better to encourage people to control the player themselves more, rather than let the game follow the player for you. The consideration there is the bottom end of the range of user ability - there's nothing you can criticise about trying to get people weaned off of everything being automated, but it's a case of making the changes step by step IMO. In a sense, radical overhauls of a game like this is a bad idea compared to gradually morphing into something more complicated. It's why a lot of people think the left stick dribbling in FIFA is bad - in reality they're just playing something very different from PES.
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I think the ''stand-off'' function is a good idea, even if it does come across as being too automated by locking-on to a player. Anything that weans players off the constant use of the pressure buttons for 90 minutes is a good thing, and I think Konami have tried to simplify this to make it appealing to users of all skill levels. Remember, it will still be down to good timing and clever play from the player as to when he wants to make the tackle.

We really need to see what it actually looks like in action. It's not that different a concept from the pressure buttons in PES and Fifa where your defender will lock onto and chase the player with the ball. It also reminds me of the NBA2K games where you can lock onto the ball handler and shadow him around the court without any user input on the analogue stick. It works well and doesn't detract from what is a very good simulation game.
 
Jess said:
You do realize that it's only the Premiership that has those 'square nets' everyone keeps bitching about, right? The nets at the San Siro seem to look like the ones in PES.
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Loool? Did you even watched the champions League games? :CONFUSE:As far as I know, it's not only Premiership who have square nets, but also Portuguese League, Italian, Spanish and even the French League
 
Jamezinho said:
I think the ''stand-off'' function is a good idea, even if it does come across as being too automated by locking-on to a player. Anything that weans players off the constant use of the pressure buttons for 90 minutes is a good thing, and I think Konami have tried to simplify this to make it appealing to users of all skill levels. Remember, it will still be down to good timing and clever play from the player as to when he wants to make the tackle.

We really need to see what it actually looks like in action. It's not that different a concept from the pressure buttons in PES and Fifa where your defender will lock onto and chase the player with the ball. It also reminds me of the NBA2K games where you can lock onto the ball handler and shadow him around the court without any user input on the analogue stick. It works well and doesn't detract from what is a very good simulation game.
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I'd agree. Constant pressure seems to be the benchmark of defensive play in recent football games (for less skilled gamers in particular) so it's nice to see Konami implementing a bit more skill and variety. I personally don't believe it'll be as abusive or overly automated as some might think. Let's not forget that standing off your attacker for too long can have dire consequences, especially if that attacker is a Ronaldo, Messi, Rooney or Kaka, a Gourcuff, Gerrard or Lampard. The only thing this does is help you shadow your opponent, the rest (i.e. timing your tackles and choosing your moment) is up to you. Of course we'll have to see it in action first to make any conclusive judgements.

terapass45 said:
Loool? Did you even watched the champions League games? :CONFUSE:As far as I know, it's not only Premiership who have square nets, but also Portuguese League, Italian, Spanish and even the French League
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My point is its not universal. There's nothing actually wrong with how they look in PES, they aren't triangle, circle, or square, they aren't 50 meters high or wide, or made of solid steel. You have nothing to go on saying 'they're wrong' because, essentially, the only thing you're complaining about is a lack of variety. It's a luxury to be addressed but it's not absolutely essential for a gaming experience.
 
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ElvisSs said:
Spot on! This nets talk must end... Konami needs to sort the gameplay, ai, animations and many other things before we can start requesting nets, balls , socks, hats, pijamas, blankets and so on... really guys give it a rest.
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What does pijamas have to do with goal nets??

When the ball hits net, the net acts super unrealistically. In this aspect, FIFA is better. ONLY IN THIS ASPECT!
 
Jamezinho said:
I think the ''stand-off'' function is a good idea, even if it does come across as being too automated by locking-on to a player. Anything that weans players off the constant use of the pressure buttons for 90 minutes is a good thing, and I think Konami have tried to simplify this to make it appealing to users of all skill levels. Remember, it will still be down to good timing and clever play from the player as to when he wants to make the tackle.

We really need to see what it actually looks like in action. It's not that different a concept from the pressure buttons in PES and Fifa where your defender will lock onto and chase the player with the ball. It also reminds me of the NBA2K games where you can lock onto the ball handler and shadow him around the court without any user input on the analogue stick. It works well and doesn't detract from what is a very good simulation game.
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Jamez, are you familiar with the jockey press in FIFA? It's pretty much what this is, except you have to do stuff to match your opponent for pace. Or does PES already have this as well? I didn't think it did.

I agree that this is easier for beginners to use though, which should hopefully make jockeying a bit more widely appreciated.
 
terapass45 said:
What does pijamas have to do with goal nets??

When the ball hits net, the net acts super unrealistically. In this aspect, FIFA is better. ONLY IN THIS ASPECT!
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That's because it is a different type of net! It isn't like in Premiership... Premiership isn't the only league in this damn world, cmon!:FAIL:
 
Not sure if I mind that holding down the pass button makes you automatically press the opposition. It was like this in PES 5 and it was great. Difference is in PES 5 you would end up fouling the other player most of the time because it wouldn't time the tackle good enough. In both FIFA and current PES you can just hold it down and win the ball pretty much every time.

Or remove it and make so that if you press the pass button you will try a standing tackle as soon as you press it. If you have jockey and running jockey it should be enough to be able to defend properly, shouldn't it?



On the net issue: I don't really see why people get so angry at the "net people". In the video tour, Konami says that the main thing they work on for PES 2011 is that it should look realistic, as if you are watching it on TV. They even sit there tweaking and putting energy to make the crowd have the same color scheme. I think it is pretty weird too that if they put so much effort in making everything LOOK as realistic as they can, why have those weird looking nets.

The people that hate the "net people" must really hate Konami for putting so much effort in all the small details to make it look realistic too then?
 
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Gab_ said:
Not sure if I mind that holding down the pass button makes you automatically press the opposition. It was like this in PES 5 and it was great. Difference is in PES 5 you would end up fouling the other player most of the time because it wouldn't time the tackle good enough. In both FIFA and current PES you can just hold it down and win the ball pretty much every time.

Or remove it and make so that if you press the pass button you will try a standing tackle as soon as you press it. If you have jockey and running jockey it should be enough to be able to defend properly, shouldn't it?
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Agreed,jockey and jockey running is enough,dont bring back that horrible auto pressing system and discontinue the current system,let us decide to press and how much by using the stick,if the player control and subtlety is there and you can move your defenders freely on a true 360 degree plain theres no need for auto pressing,its just pandering to casuals and takes away the art of using your backlines shape and knowing how to defend properly.

Not only that but it looks funny and is cheap when you press a button and your cursor controlled player is automatically pulled towards the ball carrier like a magnet,plus konami or ea dont penalise people that over use this system.
 
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From what I understand its :x: to press but it wont attempt a tackle until the attacker has stopped, forward and :x: to go right for the player, and backward and :x: to stand off him completely and follow his movements.
 
Jess said:
From what I understand its :x: to press but it wont attempt a tackle until the attacker has stopped, forward and :x: to go right for the player, and backward and :x: to stand off him completely and follow his movements.
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Problem is that is sounds like you don't have to adjust your position yourself. So if you and I played against each other, I would have a hard time trying to fool you which direction I was going to take, because you could just hold down X and back and the player would follow my every twist and turn. But if you had to move the player yourself I might be able to fool you and go the other side.

Hopefully it is not as automatic as it sounds.
 
freedom said:
I had to join this forum after reading your post shorty alien. I have been thinking am I the only one who thinks that PES 2010 is best PES and much more the best game I have ever played. It is the most underrated game I know. If you have time and patience try to learn manual passing using right analogue stick. It really isn´t that hard after awhile. Go first to training mode to get little used to it. Then couple of seasons in Master League with regular settings, yes I know it´s easy but you use more the manual passing and you learn more rapidly. I encourage you to use it in every pass, long and short. No other passing method. Soon you notice you can place your passes actually anywhere you want and the game really opens up. Funny I tried to describe PES 2010 to somebody and chess game to my mind.
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I've never really got to grips with manual passing, it was always fiddly with the right stick. I was a manual FIFA player though, and will be checking it out in 2011 :)


zeemeister said:
@shorty alien. I know and use the depth of the fantastic tactic system in PES 2010. But this is my point, the AI just needs to push me into adapting and changing my style of play.
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It wasn't a comment directly aimed at you, it was more in general alluding to the depth of the game, and how it allows you to set up your defense to counteract pretty much anything. Not sure what you mean about the last point though, although depending on what's happening in the match, you alter your style of play tactically. I play mostly online and only use the AI to practice team selections (and the one season I've had in Master League).

And regarding freedom of control, the fundamentals of FIFA to me are broken, so whether I can run around in 360 degrees and play a fully manual match (which itself seems to bypass player stats, bar the shooting) doesn't really make much difference, when: the AI is weak (er than PES); the pressing is too much; the midfield play is practically nonexistent with the general trend leaning towards through ball and score; the player individuality is weak not and not really apparent; the ball feels too lightweight and the speed of the game is too fast and hurried.

PES 2010 uses 16 directions, and together with the super cancel that's fine for me at the moment. Passing/long passing/through ball and shooting are a combination between stats and player input (as well as the superior, heavier, weighted ball physics and obviously player positioning), it is not completely automated (that would be FIFA on all assisted) but it is a system that actually allows you freedom of play, I can play the game however I want to, I can score a million different types of goals, it is an unpredictable game. That is where the freedom lies, as well as the above mentioned tactical options.

They do sound like they're opening up 2011 to be even "freer" in terms of directions, passing etc. but even if they just reworked the animation (and tweaked a few flaws, such as the referee) to break up the appearance of rigidity I'd be ok.
 
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Jess said:
From what I understand its :x: to press but it wont attempt a tackle until the attacker has stopped, forward and :x: to go right for the player, and backward and :x: to stand off him completely and follow his movements.
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Hm I wonder if that matter about defence was mentioned by those two guys that played PES 2011 like 2 month ago, giving us great info about earlyy code of game. Did they mention it before tuesday ?
 
romagnoli said:
Jamez, are you familiar with the jockey press in FIFA? It's pretty much what this is, except you have to do stuff to match your opponent for pace. Or does PES already have this as well? I didn't think it did.

I agree that this is easier for beginners to use though, which should hopefully make jockeying a bit more widely appreciated.
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Yeah, I make good use of jockeying in Fifa and it's a good system, but most people I play never use it. It's just too easy to regain possession by pressing, negating the need for intelligent defensive play.

I use jockeying in PES too but it's completely dependant on positioning and tracking the opponent manually, which is not helped by the lack of freedom of movement. Anything that makes jockeying easier and more appealing to the sprint-press crowd is for the better, that's my underlying point which we agree on. I want to see more realistic and thoughtful defending in football games.
 
Current list of confirmed E3 Games from Konami:

IGN said:
Konami
Castlevania Puzzle: Encore of the Night (iPhone)
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (PS3, X360)
Def Jam Rapstar (PS3, Wii, X360)
Def Jam Rapstar (Bundle) (Wii)
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker (PSP)
N3: Ninety-Nine Nights II (X360)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2010 (iPhone)
Rocket Knight (PC, PS3, X360)
Rush'N Attack Ex-Patriot (PS3, X360)
Saw II: The Videogame (PS3, X360)
The Cages: Pro Style Batting Practice (Wii)
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