PES 2011 Discussion thread

Nick since you like reminiscing so much, you can take a look at the PES 2010 thread and see that at this point, people were way more negative about PES 2010 than 11.
 
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romagnoli said:
Whoooa there. This is almost definitely off the mark. Late March at the soonest. Remember the point was that they wanted the press members to be able to give them feedback to work into the game - they wouldn't be playing something up to 12 weeks old to do so. Besides which the video we've seen was playing on one of the dev's machines. That could well have still been the press build to avoid accidentally spilling any beans, but it's unlikely to have been stuff from Jan/Feb.
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Well, either way, i doubt the Ai would be as bad as people are strangley making out yet they haven't seen the game, despite that Konami were saying the game was near finished a few months ago. I'm sticking my neck outt for he first time in this game by saying i'm sure The fiasco of the '70% complete game' Being used as the demo wont happen this time around.
 
Hmm.. well maybe they weren´t as gloomy as I thought last year :JAY:, but hey, the PSM3 details last year weren´t as impressive as this years.

I just hope when gameplay videos come out the first thing we don´t blame are the cameras for the footage we see.
 
Lami said:
Why's it for kids? Playing online with people you know is just like playing offline with friends, bar the lag. I'd love playing you guys online and lag-free.
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+1 exactly..

I keep in touch with people by playing them online in sports games on console..

to me.. the developers focus should first be gameplay.. top priority.. but 2nd is online for all console sports games. this is just how it now days.. Offline only users need to understand that.. AND yes there are some excellent online sports gaming console communities.. ONE Is the EASHL for NHL.


I personally do not like FIFA but it does have a good online.. that is probably one of the biggest reasons is so successful right now because the online is great for a sports game just like EA's NHL when compared to other sports games.. EA is ahead by far in this area compared to konami and konami knows they must improve online big time because the online console communities are growing at fast rate. Making the masterleague online is a big step in the right direction and something I'm excited about. that and the new passing was one of the most impressive things I heard about PES 2011 yet.
 
Northzzz said:
You have to differentiate between playing online against random people and playing online v people you know. Versus people you know is obviously good because you can be fair to one another and not just exploit the game.

The 'kids' comment was probably more so directed at the fact that the majority, or if not then a heck of a lot, of people who play games online are probably under the age of 18 or they act like it. So when you choose to play against a random opponent you get the delight of playing who will exploit weaknesses at the expense of good gameplay. You also need to take into account the wannabe gangster talkers or in COD that one guy who gets -15 KD who is basically the sole reason you lost.

I just find the online console communities horrible, everybody is all out for themselves and it usually makes the game a whole lot worse than it should be win or lose.

I imagine playing online games on high end PC's to be better because i guess they aren't as accessible to a lot of kids but i suppose you get a lot more elitists who will try to glitch. I still think PES would be much more fun to play online on PC than my xbox 360 though.
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Exactly what I think... Lami if I would play with some evo web members I would be very happy with online.

And for the comment about PES5 online, those were the times... even me at Peru (South America) had pretty reasonable lag with Europe. I had a couple of games with RobMcLean, etc.
 
iam in love with this screen...it is so photorealistic, the atmosphere in the scene is so strong. (the sun/ shadows, the new models, the crowd near the field)

 
romagnoli said:
Hmm.. He actually says ball carrier..
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Oops sorry I was wrong.

Still I am certain it's more in reference to the lack of midfield in FIFA, there is no need and almost no possibility (with all the constant pressure) to hold the ball in midfield to work the space. Not that PES2010 is much better as the defence tends ro drop deep in a straight line which IMO is not realistic either.

While both are not entirely wrong as you do get teams that play high pressure or drop deep. It needs to be team specific. For example if you playing Inter Milan you should have a PES2010 style of defence, but if you're playing Barcelona you would be looking at FIFA10 style. Instead both games have their styles coded into the AI making team variance and individuality less apparent. FIFA 10 IMO suffers most as the lack of player individualism takes it further away from team style.
 
nicetoknwyou said:
iam in love with this screen...it is so photorealistic, the atmosphere in the scene is so strong. (the sun/ shadows, the new models, the crowd near the field)

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I like this camera, but I'm hoping that controls doesn't auto-switch when the camera changes angles.
 
Lami said:
I like this camera, but I'm hoping that controls doesn't auto-switch when the camera changes angles.
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Reasonable. But I'm more leaning on the fact that they should change the control direction according to camera angle. I can only aim according to what I see, but that's probably just me.
 
jameslv1986 said:
I think on the psm3 podcast he said you could contain tricks by pressing x and backwards to jockey or back off, while they do tricks in front of u but to know effect.

But I also hope the computer does not fall for them all the time. At least online or against mates we have different ways of defending, rather than just going towards the ball.
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You can stand-off but contain an attacker by holding X and push the left stick towards your own goal. Sounds really good.

The PSM3 Podcast is definitely worth a listen if any of you haven't already. Their editor Dan Dawkins talks about his trip to Tokyo and his 4 or 5 hours with the game.
 
Right PSM3 podcast

They're talking about the defending changes. More specifically how you hold your direction stick to your own goal and hold x to jockey. But then they say that after the presentation the feature wasn't in the builds they played so it was impossible to gain an opinion on it.

But yet ign claim they actually played with it and kept passing back to their own keeper and messing up.

?
 
zeemeister said:
Oops sorry I was wrong.

Still I am certain it's more in reference to the lack of midfield in FIFA, there is no need and almost no possibility (with all the constant pressure) to hold the ball in midfield to work the space. Not that PES2010 is much better as the defence tends ro drop deep in a straight line which IMO is not realistic either.

While both are not entirely wrong as you do get teams that play high pressure or drop deep. It needs to be team specific. For example if you playing Inter Milan you should have a PES2010 style of defence, but if you're playing Barcelona you would be looking at FIFA10 style. Instead both games have their styles coded into the AI making team variance and individuality less apparent. FIFA 10 IMO suffers most as the lack of player individualism takes it further away from team style.
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I think with 2010 it depends on how far you go with the tactical options. If you know what you're doing and go in deep, you can configure your defense to play however you want. If you want to shut up shop and play negatively, combining the man marking, player indexes and maybe even the sliders you definitely can. You can shut out all the Ronaldo/Messi abusers and play on the counter, if you have to.

It's not foolproof but online I've frustrated many a player; I remember even grinding out results against Real Madrid with Portsmouth, twice in a row, a 0-0 and a 1-0 win for me. I've also done so with teams like Lille, PSV Eindhoven etc. (it also helps that I have about 9 different saved formations which I use with the many multiple teams I choose). If you have to you drop deep, set your players (even midfield players) to defensive, and double mark the above players if they are giving you trouble they'll find it difficult to find space, just like in real life. Hitting them on the counter can then be devastating. Look at Inter Milan's CL Semi Finals and Final. If you can set up your team correctly its entirely possible to organize your defense, the game gives you the tools to do so. It's not the games' fault if you don't use them.

When I see a lot of people complain about PES 2010, I understand that it is their personal opinion, but I also doubt how far they go into understanding and utilizing the tactical depth of the game, which separates it from FIFA and all the other versions of PES.

If I played a game of chess and only skimmed the surface of the game, I may easily lose against a player who is planning moves 3 or 4 steps ahead, looking at the game from all angles and using a number of different strategies to win. I may even come to dislike chess. It may not be that my opponent is such an infinitely superior player to me, he is just using his brain and all his thiking faculties to beat me.

This is what's so frustrating, the game is so deep. How many people are digging deep and reaching its hidden depths, before writing off the game?

On a slightly different note, as I keep mentioning, gameplay wise, they are already there, I'm not worried about 2011, unless they change it so much that they mess it up, it should be fine.
 
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Radiation said:
Right PSM3 podcast

They're talking about the defending changes. More specifically how you hold your direction stick to your own goal and hold x to jockey. But then they say that after the presentation the feature wasn't in the builds they played so it was impossible to gain an opinion on it.

But yet ign claim they actually played with it and kept passing back to their own keeper and messing up.

?
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That's an odd one. I can see how that could be a potential problem when holding x and pointing the stick towards your own goal. Hopefully it's something that is being fixed.

Overall Dan from PSM3 sounds cautiously optimistic. He said that this could be the best PES for many years if Konami implement and fix everything they've talked about, but he also said it won't close the gap on Fifa if they don't.
 
Radiation said:
Right PSM3 podcast

They're talking about the defending changes. More specifically how you hold your direction stick to your own goal and hold x to jockey. But then they say that after the presentation the feature wasn't in the builds they played so it was impossible to gain an opinion on it.

But yet ign claim they actually played with it and kept passing back to their own keeper and messing up.

?
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yeah noticed that. i dont trust ign. its like none of them know anything about sports sims. They are more interested in the technical side, rather than the feeling.
 
shorty alien said:
I think with 2010 it depends on how far you go with the tactical options. If you know what you're doing and go in deep, you can configure your defense to play however you want. If you want to shut up shop and play negatively, combining the man marking, player indexes and maybe even the sliders you definitely can. You can shut out all the Ronaldo/Messi abusers and play on the counter, if you have to.

It's not foolproof but online I've frustrated many a player; I remember even grinding out results against Real Madrid with Portsmouth, twice in a row, a 0-0 and a 1-0 win for me. I've also done so with teams like Lille, PSV Eindhoven etc. (it also helps that I have about 9 different saved formations which I use with the many multiple teams I choose). If you have to you drop deep, set your players (even midfield players) to defensive, and double mark the above players if they are giving you trouble they'll find it difficult to find space, just like in real life. Hitting them on the counter can then be devastating. Look at Inter Milan's CL Semi Finals and Final. If you can set up your team correctly its entirely possible to organize your defense, the game gives you the tools to do so. It's not the games' fault if you don't use them.

When I see a lot of people complain about PES 2010, I understand that it is their personal opinion, but I also doubt how far they go into understanding and utilizing the tactical depth of the game, which separates it from FIFA and all the other versions of PES.

If I played a game of chess and only skimmed the surface of the game, I may easily lose against a player who is planning moves 3 or 4 steps ahead, looking at the game from all angles and using a number of different strategies to win. I may even come to dislike chess. It may not be that my opponent is such an infinitely superior player to me, he is just using his brain and all his thiking faculties to beat me.

This is what's so frustrating, the game is so deep. How many people are digging deep and reaching its hidden depths, before writing off the game?

On a slightly different note, as I keep mentioning, gameplay wise, they are already there, I'm not worried about 2011, unless they change it so much that they mess it up, it should be fine.
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I had to join this forum after reading your post shorty alien. I have been thinking am I the only one who thinks that PES 2010 is best PES and much more the best game I have ever played. It is the most underrated game I know. If you have time and patience try to learn manual passing using right analogue stick. It really isn´t that hard after awhile. Go first to training mode to get little used to it. Then couple of seasons in Master League with regular settings, yes I know it´s easy but you use more the manual passing and you learn more rapidly. I encourage you to use it in every pass, long and short. No other passing method. Soon you notice you can place your passes actually anywhere you want and the game really opens up. Funny I tried to describe PES 2010 to somebody and chess game to my mind.
 
lons_pl said:
Maybe something is wrong with me but players models on this screenshot looks similar to FIFA's? oh no please say that is not true.......
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Did you realize that just now that they're doing everything to copy FIFA? And thank god for that haha. Now they look like properly at least, let's see if they'll act properly.
 
I don't see why holding X and towards your own goal would be any different to what we have now. I mean in that they end up passing the ball, we hold down X to take the ball already.

And the whole "towards your own goal", isn't it more like you hold in the same direction the opponent is running? Because if he starts running almost UP on the screen, it can't be that you still hold towards your own goal? Because that I think would feel really weird. It should be hold the same direction he is going, and then when you want to take the ball you hold towards the ball.

Unless it mean you stand off more than I understand. So it's like using the jockey button and keep a much longer distance between the opponent so you are always between him and the goal.
 
Gab_ said:
Unless it mean you stand off more than I understand. So it's like using the jockey button and keep a much longer distance between the opponent so you are always between him and the goal.
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That was my understanding from listening to the podcast. It will work the same as the regular pressure button (X or A) except by pushing the stick towards your own goal you shadow the goal side of the player on the ball without trying to challenge and gain possession. It's a way of defending without committing to a challenge, basically a more user-friendly option to the jockey button.
 
shorty alien said:
I think with 2010 it depends on how far you go with the tactical options. If you know what you're doing and go in deep, you can configure your defense to play however you want. If you want to shut up shop and play negatively, combining the man marking, player indexes and maybe even the sliders you definitely can. You can shut out all the Ronaldo/Messi abusers and play on the counter, if you have to.

It's not foolproof but online I've frustrated many a player; I remember even grinding out results against Real Madrid with Portsmouth, twice in a row, a 0-0 and a 1-0 win for me. I've also done so with teams like Lille, PSV Eindhoven etc. (it also helps that I have about 9 different saved formations which I use with the many multiple teams I choose). If you have to you drop deep, set your players (even midfield players) to defensive, and double mark the above players if they are giving you trouble they'll find it difficult to find space, just like in real life. Hitting them on the counter can then be devastating. Look at Inter Milan's CL Semi Finals and Final. If you can set up your team correctly its entirely possible to organize your defense, the game gives you the tools to do so. It's not the games' fault if you don't use them.

When I see a lot of people complain about PES 2010, I understand that it is their personal opinion, but I also doubt how far they go into understanding and utilizing the tactical depth of the game, which separates it from FIFA and all the other versions of PES.

If I played a game of chess and only skimmed the surface of the game, I may easily lose against a player who is planning moves 3 or 4 steps ahead, looking at the game from all angles and using a number of different strategies to win. I may even come to dislike chess. It may not be that my opponent is such an infinitely superior player to me, he is just using his brain and all his thiking faculties to beat me.

This is what's so frustrating, the game is so deep. How many people are digging deep and reaching its hidden depths, before writing off the game?

On a slightly different note, as I keep mentioning, gameplay wise, they are already there, I'm not worried about 2011, unless they change it so much that they mess it up, it should be fine.
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good post from a guy i can realte to since we both used to play FIFA 09 manual online, i know he's a very good player who understands football.

shorty alien said:

This is what's so frustrating, the game is so deep. How many people are digging deep and reaching its hidden depths, before writing off the game?
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Yes, it's unfortunate but people take one look at the animations and run a mile :)

The best thing about the game is the amount of ways and meothds you can play football in the game and how i simulates it with good balance. I love how defending deep will really hurt you attackingwise, there has been many a football game where doing this is seen as 'exploitation' but no in PES 2010 however :)
 
Jamezinho said:
That was my understanding from listening to the podcast. It will work the same as the regular pressure button (X or A) except by pushing the stick towards your own goal you shadow the goal side of the player on the ball without trying to challenge and gain possession. It's a way of defending without committing to a challenge, basically a more user-friendly option to the jockey button.
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Toward your goal and X/A is the same as holding L2(+R2)+X or LT(+RT)+A in FIFA. The direction you press isn't reflected by the movement of the player in a literal sense. The worry with pressing towards your goal + x is that, whereas normally your accidental passes would go in any direction (passing the ball out of play, passing it forwards to the opposition defence etc), your accidental passes are being funnelled towards your own goal.

I'd strongly sugges that changing the pressure button to one of the triggers/bumpers be the first thing you do, if it doesn't displace anything important. It's only habit that means that pressure is still on the same button as short pass.

Edit: to clarify, while this might not be new to football games I'm glad standing off is becoming more of a focus. If it can be shown to work effectively then I expect it to become the staple defensive mechanism for both titles. Personally I'd have liked to see it be a bit freer, so we could just hold X to follow the man but be able to press the LS to either side to try and block based on weaker foot / show the man outside, as well as press towards the ball to challenge.
 
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CRiMSON said:
Did you realize that just now that they're doing everything to copy FIFA? And thank god for that haha. Now they look like properly at least, let's see if they'll act properly.
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I don't think they're "copying" Fifa. They improved their animations based on a new engine supposedly and they had to re-do the graphics. I don't understand how that is called "copying" unless they're using the exact same engine Fifa uses.
 
Radiation said:
Right PSM3 podcast

They're talking about the defending changes. More specifically how you hold your direction stick to your own goal and hold x to jockey. But then they say that after the presentation the feature wasn't in the builds they played so it was impossible to gain an opinion on it.

But yet ign claim they actually played with it and kept passing back to their own keeper and messing up.

?
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The fact it wasnt implemented is surely why they kept passing it back lol
 
This screenshot prospect a new skills :)
s_1600_15.jpg
 
romagnoli said:
Toward your goal and X/A is the same as holding L2(+R2)+X or LT(+RT)+A in FIFA. The direction you press isn't reflected by the movement of the player in a literal sense. The worry with pressing towards your goal + x is that, whereas normally your accidental passes would go in any direction (passing the ball out of play, passing it forwards to the opposition defence etc), your accidental passes are being funnelled towards your own goal.

I'd strongly sugges that changing the pressure button to one of the triggers/bumpers be the first thing you do, if it doesn't displace anything important. It's only habit that means that pressure is still on the same button as short pass.

Edit: to clarify, while this might not be new to football games I'm glad standing off is becoming more of a focus. If it can be shown to work effectively then I expect it to become the staple defensive mechanism for both titles. Personally I'd have liked to see it be a bit freer, so we could just hold X to follow the man but be able to press the LS to either side to try and block based on weaker foot / show the man outside, as well as press towards the ball to challenge.
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Im with you on this,for me why not go for a far more simpler approach,and since konami are now touting better freedom of movement,why not just have the option of controlling the defenders direction with the left thumbstick freely when the cursor is assigned to him and just have a jockey button so its harder for the forward to throw the defender off balance and we the user control the amount of pressure are selfs with just are stick,no automated cheap pressure button.Most of us now track runs and keep the cursor on one player while the ai presses or moves towards the ball carrier,with us then focusing the cursor back on that player when the run is tracked.

Maybe im reading what konami are saying wrong but it just seems a complex solution to what is a very simple solution.

I dont think the current methods that wrong its just weak because player directional control and subtelty isnt there and 16way movement is clunky and not precise,thats why you have a pressure button to eleviate the limitations of movement so it acts like a magnet(although i never use it and use the old fashioned skilled based mehtod).

This is what worries me,defending should be about timing,player control and the decision whether you stick or twist not some clumbersome automated system thats over elaborate going down the gimmick road.If your skilled the opposition should have to open you up through clever plays,allowing them to get behind your defence or through you leaving gaps for them to exploit while your going forward.Real football games are won or lost by making mistakes,creative magic or the unpredictability of what the balls going to do and how it deflects off players.

This for me is where pes productions always go wrong they over elaborate the simple things or they take away the control of all the more enjoyable things.They just dont seem to understand defending like MAJOR A did with this always being a headache on pes on the ps2.

Lets be strait ea have this pretty much nailed the only problem being the players are moving so when you assign your cursor to a defender hes already off balance sometimes giving the opposition that split second or extra yard.

And another thing just get the gameplay right konami,online masterleague sounds great but id rather you spent your time on polishing the gameplay and this feature goes in next year,its fruitless if the gameplays not right.Also if you do have a blue sky team(debatable)pull them away from pes2012 getting them to help you polish pe2011 to perfection,its got to be right this year.
 
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Guys, i made a one montage with the gameplay video from the Tour with the zoom .
But the problem is... i can't see from in that gameplay noting even close to that Teaser with Messi :CONFUSE: Look like PES 2010 , 1 : 1 . Now uploaded the video .
 
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