PES 2011 Discussion thread

Dusse said:
So..you've never seen a step over IRL?:SHOCK:
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Its too much of a hassle, in the past I've watched videos that explain how to do them but in the heat of the moment when I'm in a game the player never does it. There are some tricks that Joaquin (for example) will successfully pull of. Later on in the game when I've got him isolated against the left back, I'll carefully perform the same stick movement but he'll do a completely different trick and it usually leads to him losing the ball.

The only trick stick skill in FIFA like I like is the bridge move, it's easy to pull off and can be devastating when timed correctly, the rest I hate with a passion.
 
Nick Cave said:
What happened?.. it's gone from "great, a complete overhaul is on the way" to "not looking forward to the release tomorrow"...:CONFUSE:
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I'm still massively looking forward to tomorrow as I want to see any info I can about this game, but I'm concerned that Konami are not showing what needs to be shown. The thing every fan wants is improved animations and we need to see videos to put minds at ease. If PES2011 has been in production for such a long time then surely a 1 minute gameplay video is not too much to ask for? I hope it's not too long before Konami do release a proper video.
 
Jamezinho said:
I'll make my own mind up about the pictures, don't need to be told what to look for.

I have a horrible feeling that tomorrow is going to be an anti-climax. The one thing the fans are crying out for is a gameplay video, and Konami are still holding back.
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the funny thing is after tomorrows info there will be another embargo for another month so there will be no more info til gamescon:COAT:
 
tobi said:
Its too much of a hassle, in the past I've watched videos that explain how to do them but in the heat of the moment when I'm in a game the player never does it. There are some tricks that Joaquin (for example) will successfully pull of. Later on in the game when I've got him isolated against the left back, I'll carefully perform the same stick movement but he'll do a completely different trick and it usually leads to him losing the ball.

The only trick stick skill in FIFA like I like is the bridge move, it's easy to pull off and can be devastating when timed correctly, the rest I hate with a passion.
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I know what you mean.

Jamezinho said:
I'm still massively looking forward to tomorrow as I want to see any info I can about this game, but I'm concerned that Konami are not showing what needs to be shown. The thing every fan wants is improved animations and we need to see videos to put minds at ease. If PES2011 has been in production for such a long time then surely a 1 minute gameplay video is not too much to ask for? I hope it's not too long before Konami do release a proper video.
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I can understand that, but remember it's only June. June 1st at that. The last thing any games company will want to do is throw all their cards on the table right from the off and Konami are no different. I don't know about you but I'm really looking forward to seeing pictures, mainly because I've mainly held a cautious optimism about this. From the sounds of it the core gameplay is the same PES magic, movement and passing are 360 degrees, the AI has been improved and the animations have been significantly improved (so we've been told). If the goalkeepers have been given the same treatment and there're twice as many stadiums then that's the 'radical improvement' I've been looking for. If we get a host of screenshots tomorrow I'll be reasonably satisfied for now.
 
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tobi said:
Its too much of a hassle, in the past I've watched videos that explain how to do them but in the heat of the moment when I'm in a game the player never does it. There are some tricks that Joaquin (for example) will successfully pull of. Later on in the game when I've got him isolated against the left back, I'll carefully perform the same stick movement but he'll do a completely different trick and it usually leads to him losing the ball.

The only trick stick skill in FIFA like I like is the bridge move, it's easy to pull off and can be devastating when timed correctly, the rest I hate with a passion.
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The fact that you're doing it carefully rather than instinctively is extremely likely to be why you're bodging it up. For example, if you do it too slowly and end up holding the stick to the side at the end you'll end up dragging the ball sideways at the end. I now flick the stick very quickly and make sure my thumb is off the stick as soon as I've completed the gesture, and I don't have any problems whatsoever. PES is copying this system with good reason.

I used to think that single stepovers were fine but multiple stepovers were too tricky, but I've sinced realised you only have to wiggle the right stick between +/- 10 degrees for the game to recognise the repeat stepovers. I'm pretty happy with how EA does things - you might not pick it up within 10 minutes but if you want tricks as part of your repertoire then you have to learn how to do them rather than just tap a button repeatedly. That said though I do think more tricks should be mapped to just the left stick (shoulder drops, Beardsley shimmies, Matthews feints etc are all left stick only in PES's of old).
 
Jess said:
I can understand that, but remember it's only June. June 1st at that. The last thing any games company will want to do is throw all their cards on the table right from the off and Konami are no different. I don't know about you but I'm really looking forward to seeing pictures, mainly because I've mainly held a cautious optimism about this. From the sounds of it the core gameplay is the same PES magic, movement and passing are 360 degrees, the AI has been improved and the animations have been significantly improved (so we've been told). If the goalkeepers have been given the same treatment and there're twice as many stadiums then that's the 'radical improvement' I've been looking for. If we get a host of screenshots tomorrow I'll be reasonably satisfied for now.
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It's not like Konami have any cards to throw, sooner or later ain't gonna make any difference.
 
Nick Cave said:
What happened?.. it's gone from "great, a complete overhaul is on the way" to "not looking forward to the release tomorrow"...:CONFUSE:
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Everybody wants to play the cautious game. They've got used to the hype-machine every year only to be disappointed. Can't blame them.
 
goalgerd said:
sorry but youre wrong,you can go into edit mode in pes2010 and give any player any skill or trick card,trust me as i updated many players when i created the option file in the link below
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ur not the brightest arent ya..
whats the point of giving bad players all this stuff, its edit mode what u expect ? its a feature to create/edit players or not ?!

noone never questioned that lol

u said all players can do all tricks, well yes if u go in edit mode and edit it like that, sure
:FAIL: <- edit: me likes smiley

edit2: but not as much as this one:
:COAT:
 
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Jamezinho said:
I hope it's not that long. Ronaldinho_23 and others have said that more info will be released during the World Cup.
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Konami will take it step by step, first official gameplay videos will be released around mid july. It is simply about timing. Unless unofficial ones are released earlier, but dont expect gameplay videos soon. Just remember Konami has to compete with EA.
 
I don't think konami can flaff around with this perceived lack of evolution. The masses are hungry and their patience is up.

I for one am not expecting a shoo wow OMG game of the year effect and will have to make of it what I can. The people that played the game have been wined and dined by konami and impressions are bound to be tainted for one reason or the other.
 
Aqua said:
ur not the brightest arent ya..
whats the point of giving bad players all this stuff, its edit mode what u expect ? its a feature to create/edit players or not ?!

noone never questioned that lol

u said all players can do all tricks, well yes if u go in edit mode and edit it like that, sure
:FAIL: <- edit: me likes smiley

edit2: but not as much as this one:
:COAT:
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Amen Aqua.
 
Van_Persie_10 said:
Konami will take it step by step, first official gameplay videos will be released around mid july. It is simply about timing. Unless unofficial ones are released earlier, but dont expect gameplay videos soon. Just remember Konami has to compete with EA.
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How do you know? Oh, I guess you just listend to the WENB podcast of 3 weeks ago, no?

:FAIL:
 
Van_Persie_10 said:
Konami will take it step by step, first official gameplay videos will be released around mid july. It is simply about timing. Unless unofficial ones are released earlier, but dont expect gameplay videos soon. Just remember Konami has to compete with EA.
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Which is exactly why they should be showing us what PES2011 is all about before the Fifa11 hype-train departs.

Remember, it's advantage EA at the moment and Konami needs to win back it's fans. I understand why they've kept everything a secret for the last few years - because PES6, 2008, 2009 and 2010 were not good enough - but if this year is the overhaul we expect then Konami should be much more open about it. They've got millions of fans to tempt back from Fifa11, which will improve this year, I've no doubt about that.
 
Jamezinho said:
Which is exactly why they should be showing us what PES2011 is all about before the Fifa11 hype-train departs.

Remember, it's advantage EA at the moment and Konami needs to win back it's fans. I understand why they've kept everything a secret for the last few years - because PES6, 2008, 2009 and 2010 were not good enough - but if this year is the overhaul we expect then Konami should be much more open about it. They've got millions of fans to tempt back from Fifa11, which will improve this year, I've no doubt about that.
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It's not like that my friend, when you compare EA to Konami the step is simply too big. EA Sport are masters in timing e.g releasing games, demo's and press releases. If for example Konami releases an official gameplay video tommorow and it didnt impress the audience, then EA would benefit from it. So one mistake and your plan is done you get me ? , so therefore Konami have to be careful to what they do. I would prefer PES2011 to be released in September but it simply unrealistic goal. I hope you understand my point.

2. Well if it the press release said PES2011 is an overhaul does it mean it is actually an overhaul ? Like I said for many times Konami is investing and spending time in the long-term and most of you guys expect changes in the short-term. Konami stepped up their game from 2009 onwards and be patient, Konami is going to the right direction and they will outperform EA (I'm very confident).

Peace.
 
To me all this PR campaign from both sides is just bullshit to me. They're playing mind games with each other with each waiting for a mistake to land the perfect strike, while us fans are fed with nothing but bullshit from both sides. PR doesn't make the game. That shit doesn't win me. They play mind games to get into our pockets.

Concentrate on making a very good game and cut that shit. I seriously couldn't care less who strikes who first. I'm the customer here and I want a game that's worth my money, not a PR campaign that steals my money.

Make a very good game, spend every penny and effort on it, release videos to show us fans what you got for us, and we're all sold.

Goddamn PR.
 
Lami said:
To me all this PR campaign from both sides is just bullshit to me. They're playing mind games with each other with each waiting for a mistake to land the perfect strike, while us fans are fed with nothing but bullshit from both sides. PR doesn't make the game. That shit doesn't win me. They play mind games to get into our pockets.

Concentrate on making a very good game and cut that shit. I seriously couldn't care less who strikes who first. I'm the customer here and I want a game that's worth my money, not a PR campaign that steals my money.

Make a very good game, spend every penny and effort on it, release videos to show us fans what you got for us, and we're all sold.

Goddamn PR.
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Well said,why play the smoke and mirrors game if you have something good to show.Embargos also grate with me as there a way of giving magazines and fansites exclusives so they juice up review scores and steer away from a games particular negatives.

What does it matter anyway,we are all going to play the demo at some point and the full game,and as most of us have extensive experience of playing football games where going to find the faults or negatives within hours or days anyway with these being spoken of quickly and echoed all across the net.

I remember a guy called techskill on pesgaming last year and he pretty much hit the nail on the head,which is,everything you see in the final code is pretty much in place by this time of year and the last few months of development are small tweaks to the code(graphical fidelity,frame rates)and finalising the menu interfaces,theres no one big element that will change the game drastically.Let us not forget all the BS talk of builds and percentages last year when the only difference from the demo was slight physics adjustments and bug removals.

Also pr and marketing is normally aimed at the guy who picks up the game without ever reading a review or preview so is a waste of publishers money.Its just a way of the shits in suits(marketing people)justifying there pay because if a game is fantastic word of mouth and the games quality generally does the talking.

To much enthasis is put on pr and marketing,which while being essential for a new IP or brand is hardly something thats a massive requirement for a football game that has millions of fans anyway.

Its like all this fan feedback business which while being essential for ea as fifa 4 years ago was awful,with konami it feels like lip service because they have been making great games for 20 years,so its not like they dont know how to do it or how good they once had it,even they must see how pes on the next gen hasnt measured up to the gameplay qualities of the ps2.

Just to echo what you say,just show us the game moving and some videos.
 
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Expander said:
Well said,why play the smoke and mirrors game if you have something good to show.Embargos also grate with me as there a way of giving magazines and fansites exclusives so they juice up review scores and steer away from a games particular negatives.

What does it matter anyway,we are all going to play the demo at some point and the full game,and as most of us have extensive experience of playing football games where going to find the faults or negatives within hours and days anyway with these being spoken of quickly and echoed all across the net.
I remeber a guy called techskill on pesgaming last year and he pretty much hit the nail on the head,which is,everything you see in the final code is pretty much in place by this time of year and the last few months of development are small tweaks to the code and finali/sing the menu interfaces,theres no one big element that will change the game drastically.

Also pr and marketing is normally aimed at the guy who picks up the game without ever reading a preview so is a waste of publishers money.Its just a way of the shits in suits(marketing people)justifying there pay because if a game is fantastic word of mouth and the games quality generally does the talking.
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Just wondered what you feel about Konami's Teamvision ?
 
apparently according to WENB, we should be getting news tonight as one European website (I presume Jeuxvideo) is releasing something at 12 French time, so 11 in UK.
 
Lami said:
Make a very good game, spend every penny and effort on it, release videos to show us fans what you got for us, and we're all sold.

Goddamn PR.
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This.

Konami should show us what they've got. The bulk of the game will be done by now. If the game's shit, the game's shit. Holding back gameplay footage until nearer release won't make it any better. They should have confidence in their product and not care less what EA is doing. Which is what worries me a little.
 
romagnoli said:
The fact that you're doing it carefully rather than instinctively is extremely likely to be why you're bodging it up. For example, if you do it too slowly and end up holding the stick to the side at the end you'll end up dragging the ball sideways at the end. I now flick the stick very quickly and make sure my thumb is off the stick as soon as I've completed the gesture, and I don't have any problems whatsoever. PES is copying this system with good reason.

I used to think that single stepovers were fine but multiple stepovers were too tricky, but I've sinced realised you only have to wiggle the right stick between +/- 10 degrees for the game to recognise the repeat stepovers. I'm pretty happy with how EA does things - you might not pick it up within 10 minutes but if you want tricks as part of your repertoire then you have to learn how to do them rather than just tap a button repeatedly. That said though I do think more tricks should be mapped to just the left stick (shoulder drops, Beardsley shimmies, Matthews feints etc are all left stick only in PES's of old).
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I said carefully because when I try to do them instinctively I get overwhelmed so to speak, it doesn't flow, it doesn't feel natural to me at all. From time to time I practice tricks in the arena but come game time, as I said before, the player will sometimes attempt a different trick. Its very, very frustrating.

If FIFA had some of the natural and instinctive feints that you mention on the left stick then I'd be able to compensate for my lack of dribbling, too bad it doesn't.

Doing tricks on the PS2 wasn't a case of tapping the button repeatedly, a double step over was :r2: x2, the flip flap was :r2: x3 (if I remember correctly). Sometimes all you needed was a fake step over to create some extra space to work with. That's not button bashing as your alluding to.

One of the control methods in NBA 2K has the right stick solely used as a dribble stick, the difference with this and FIFA is that it all feels natural and realistic. When I move the stick in a certain direction, the ball handler (depending on their skill set) will perform the move that I'm instructing him to attempt. The same can't be said for FIFA for whatever reason.
 
Maybe one of the reason the FIFA tricks are hard to pull off is because they're different depending on the direction you're running. So if you are running 34 degrees direction you have to start the trick stick move from the same degree. This way if you're not running in any of the old 8 directions it will be pretty hard do pull the correct trick because you might feel you start the trick at the right degree, but might just be off with 10 degrees so that the game don't recognise it.

Maybe it could just be solved with better recognition algorithm, because personally I think the movement is good in FIFA so I wouldn't mind if Konami did something similar.
 
WENB
GUYS, IMPORTANT!

I hear rumblings a European site will post some content at midnight

Stay tuned, I'll update you best I can!

Edit: midnight CET, 11pm UK time.
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OK guys, another update lol

I won't be doing a front page post about the news coming, we'll only link it once it hits. Because of the funny business, I'll only be able to tell you where its coming around 5mins before on the boards. Apologies, but its the only way.

And also, because it's all hush hush, I have no idea what content it will be. At the very least they will release the screens, so that should be awesome!

Should be a good night
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Just wondered what you feel about Konami's Teamvision ?
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Im not a big fan,theres to much comm assistance and for me this is the one of the biggest wrong turns konami has taken on the next gen.

For me it renders the user a passenger to the will of the cpu with the game playing out regardless of your actions,only allowing small adjustments akin to a QTE game or management sim and is very evident in the manual cursor setting.

Again for me and i dont want to upset anyone but its a way of masking many of the fundamental faults at PESs core,allowing konami to save on the huge costs it would take to buy in new tech which most developers have to do with the platforms of today.Gone are the days of developers creating there own engines and tech.

I still think the ai used in games like ISS on the n64 was superior to both teamvision and the ai used on the ps2 but again thats just my opinion.

We are still waiting in football games to see the quantum shift in ai that we have seen in other genres,and some will have you believing its hard to implement when i say we are still playing the same game we were 15 years ago albeit with better presentation and graphics.

Maybe 12 month cycles are a factor or lack of more competition but this area really needs to step up.Im a huge believer that ai basd individuality is the future not so stat based with animation better depicting different players kicking styles,body movement and personality traits(sulking ect).
 
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