PES 2011 Discussion thread

Jess said:
The new update probably includes updated kits and boots as well as transfers. Its the only reason I can think of for it being pushed back for so long.
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Well that just confirms for me that I've had enough now. I've avoided playing ML properly for this long until the update was out, but I ain't waiting that long. By then they'll be Killzone 3, Crysis 2, Little Big Planet 2, Bad Company 2, Dead Space 2 all waiting to be played and with decent online multiplayer to boot. PES just won't get the time to be played over these games because it hasn't done enough to hold my attention in comparison.

I gave PES a rest recently, but when I came back to it the game's problems just lept out at me straight away, gameplay bugs are too much for me to ignore. I still prefer it over FIFA, which I think is a total mess, but PES has far too many bugs for me personally to get used to.

Aside from some of the bugs I've encountered and written about before, I just can't play the game at the moment because the refs seem totally messed up. They literally freak out and give bizarre free kicks without challenges even being made now. The cursor switching problems still seem terrible, not when defending but when attacking. I have a vid I may upload later where Clichy was bombing down the wing, he got tackled, then as the the loose ball span away, the game completely removed control from all of my players on it's own, and three team mates, including Clichy himself, ran backwards and away from the ball. The AI defender just walked into a massive hole that had opened up and took the ball. It's a clear sign of bugged AI where the game messes up the cursor system then mistakenly puts all your nearby players into space for a pass, not registering that it just made you lose the ball.

Don't get me wrong, fundamentally there's a great game there. However there are too many bizarre idiosyncracies with the game -

- the broken form system for away matches
- bugged refs
- AI constantly putting players into offside positions
- the bizarre AI formations where it'll switch from 4-4-2 to 7-0-3, then if losing, 3-2-5
- strikers never attacking crosses
- players needlessly attempting and missing diving headers
- occasional gk bugs where they just stop moving or charge out of their goal without you telling them to
- overpowered AI shoulder charges brushing you off the ball
- THAT long, tedious, stumbling animation that takes your player out of the game
- the fact that you STILL cannot fully control whether your keeper throws or kicks the ball
- having to constantly use super cancel just to stop the AI from making your player sprint into a loose ball just before it runs out of play
- low crosses where the AI makes your player run into the ball and into your own net
- odd ball physics
- odd player turning physics
- cursor switching removing all control from your players
- odd through ball mechanism whereby the AI actively makes players move out of the flight of the ball so it can reach it's destination

So I can't overlook these problems any more, and though the dlc is free, there is no reason whatsoever why it would take a massive company nearly 8 weeks to simply change player rosters and update a few stats here and there. Oh well.
 
LTFC said:
Well that just confirms for me that I've had enough now. I've avoided playing ML properly for this long until the update was out, but I ain't waiting that long. By then they'll be Killzone 3, Crysis 2, Little Big Planet 2, Bad Company 2, Dead Space 2 all waiting to be played and with decent online multiplayer to boot. PES just won't get the time to be played over these games because it hasn't done enough to hold my attention in comparison.

I gave PES a rest recently, but when I came back to it the game's problems just lept out at me straight away, gameplay bugs are too much for me to ignore. I still prefer it over FIFA, which I think is a total mess, but PES has far too many bugs for me personally to get used to.

Aside from some of the bugs I've encountered and written about before, I just can't play the game at the moment because the refs seem totally messed up. They literally freak out and give bizarre free kicks without challenges even being made now. The cursor switching problems still seem terrible, not when defending but when attacking. I have a vid I may upload later where Clichy was bombing down the wing, he got tackled, then as the the loose ball span away, the game completely removed control from all of my players on it's own, and three team mates, including Clichy himself, ran backwards and away from the ball. The AI defender just walked into a massive hole that had opened up and took the ball. It's a clear sign of bugged AI where the game messes up the cursor system then mistakenly puts all your nearby players into space for a pass, not registering that it just made you lose the ball.

Don't get me wrong, fundamentally there's a great game there. However there are too many bizarre idiosyncracies with the game -

- the broken form system for away matches - It's adds variation, makes you think. Players will always tend to play better and have more condfidence at home. A player on a Blue can still play very well, he drops 3% across the board stat-wise, and he tires quicker. Thats it.

- bugged refs Needs work but far from game-breaking. Refs make mistakes, it's part and parcel of the game.

- AI constantly putting players into offside positions Miss the initial run, hold-up play and start again. Players move out of position. A low TeamWork Stat will mean lazy strikers will take longer to get onside. A player is never offside until you make that forward pass. Pass sideways or back. Composure and thought is now required.

- the bizarre AI formations where it'll switch from 4-4-2 to 7-0-3, then if losing, 3-2-5. Never seen this, although dynamic formation and strategy switching is a massive step forward in CPU AI. Creates ebbs and flow.

- strikers never attacking crosses I dont have this problem.

- players needlessly attempting and missing diving headers Perfect timing is required, just like real-life. It's split-second technique and timing, replicating it's real-life equivalent. Also practice certainly doesnt ensure perfection, it helps, but that's exactly how it should be- it's a very difficult skill.

- occasional gk bugs where they just stop moving or charge out of their goal without you telling them to Soley based on Keeper stats, the worlds best keepers automatically come off their line quick in anticipation. Lesser skilled keepers less so, also their decision making is less consistent.

- overpowered AI shoulder charges brushing you off the ball This is all based on relevant player strength. Take a player 5 10' weighing 80Kg + and he will be naturally stronger in the challenge.

- THAT long, tedious, stumbling animation that takes your player out of the game. Not very pretty but an ends to a means. Balance, inertia and responsivness play a big part in this.

- the fact that you STILL cannot fully control whether your keeper throws or kicks the ball. X to throw or X and L2 is what I use. Square for long clearance. Aim where you want your GK to kick the ball, I use this all the time and aim for my LMF on the touch-line. Works a treat with GK's with half decent kick power and accuracy. Amelia is far better in this regard that Paston for example.

- having to constantly use super cancel just to stop the AI from making your player sprint into a loose ball just before it runs out of play. Player statistics again come into play here, but Super Cancel is a great option to remove their natural tendencies.

- low crosses where the AI makes your player run into the ball and into your own net. Low crosses are too effective, but can be stopped using a Semi-Auto Cursor change system. Always clear the ball with Square rather than Circle. Square is the clearance button.

- odd ball physics At times, but for most part relevant to the situation.

- odd player turning physics Simply highlighting the differences in players agility and body balance levels.

- cursor switching removing all control from your players. Needs adressing still, but very few and far between when using the more advanced Semi-Auto system.
- odd through ball mechanism whereby the AI actively makes players move out of the flight of the ball so it can reach it's destination. Agreed. Can look blatant at times, needs work.

So I can't overlook these problems any more, and though the dlc is free, there is no reason whatsoever why it would take a massive company nearly 8 weeks to simply change player rosters and update a few stats here and there. Oh well.
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Thats how I genuinely see it. I, hand on heart, have no issues for the most part with most of what you have written and what your experiencing.
 
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I've experiences a lot of LTFC's points but regarding the strikers never attacking the ball properly, what are you doing differently Jimmy?

This happens to me all the time, sometimes they'll be in the box but refuse to attack, gamble or anticipate. Other times when the keeper has spilled their shot, they'll refuse to attack the ball and tap the ball into the net. I've even had occasions where the striker runs away from the cross, hangs back on the penalty spot or positions himself on the opposite side of the box.
 
I tend to have my finger on Circle to make the player I'm not in control of press the action. I can then press cursor switch as I use Semi-Auto to then take control and attack the ball. It works for me anyway. Also, maybe the tactics and strategies I employ ensure this isnt an issue for me. Which it genuinely isnt. If it was, I'd be the first to say.
 
The one aspect of PES I really like this year is how well they have replicated the art of crossing the ball and the time and space required. In all past PES games, in hindsight, it was all very easy to whip a ball in. Now you need to create that yard of space to give you the best chance of a decent delivery. Defenders now are able to get a foot in, body-block, disrupt your balance, or show you onto a wrong foot or less than beneficial angle. I really applaud this, as it really does replicate how difficult it actually is in real-life to create the relevant time and space for a clear delivery. It's all very subtle, but it's very clever how they have not only understood how this technique works, but how they have programmed it to mirror real-life.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
The one aspect of PES I really like this year is how well they have replicated the art of crossing the ball and the time and space required. In all past PES games, in hindsight, it was all very easy to whip a ball in. Now you need to create that yard of space to give you the best chance of a decent delivery. Defenders now are able to get a foot in, body-block, disrupt your balance, or show you onto a wrong foot or less the beneficial angle. I really applaud this, as it really does replicate how difficult it actually is in real-life to create the relevant time and space for a clear delivery. It's all very subtle, but it's very clever how they have not only understood how this technique works, but how they have programmed it to mirror real-life.
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Absolutely 100% agree.

A lot of people go on about how crosses are rubbish in PES 2011, but I think it's just their exexution of them which is lacking.

I've explained in detail the mechanics of the crossing system, and some advice on how to improve your chances from them, so won't go into too much detail here.

In PES on PS2 you could charge down the wing with a speedy player, whip it in with pinpoint precision (even when full-pelt sprinting) to a striker who's run perfectly matched up to the flight of the ball, powering it home.
This is not unheard of in football, but it doesn't happen at the frequency that it was seen in PES of old.

There's a lot more variables to consider now, and much more variation in the crossing, a factor in this being the 360 degree movement, with a few degrees difference in your player's facing direction making a big difference to the trajectory of the ball due to his posture/body shape.

Here's a few of my headed goals;

YouTube - PES 2011 MLO - Wing play

YouTube - PES 2011 MLO - Minanda header

YouTube - PES 2011 Online - D'Agostino header

YouTube - PES 2011 MLO - Heskey diving header
(This is one of those "charge down the wing" ones I was on about, but I could see Heskey wanted the ball played into that area very early on)

And a couple of examples of the early cross in action, which is one of my favourite ways to score;

YouTube - PES 2011 MLO - Pinpoint early cross

YouTube - PES 2011 MLO - Last minute winner

(I like the finish on that last clip :) )
 
BURNA said:
Hey Skooky, remember me? We had some great games on PC PES6. Just want to say i think your video is great and i hope someone at KONAMI sees it as i've given PES2011 another chance in recent weeks on Masterleague online and i've given up on it now for all of the reasons in your video. I gave up patching PES 2 years ago too.

I'm actually almost enjoying FIFA11 on PS3 at the moment and i never thought i'd ever say that.

But like we all know, nothing compares to PES5&6
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Yeh i remember you! and thanks!
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PES Plan 2 Konami! episode 2 is up, all about animations
If you have anything more too add please post it in the comments or add a video response.

YouTube - PES Plan 2 Konami! - Episode 2 - Animations

Enjoy!
 
LTFC said:
I gave PES a rest recently, but when I came back to it the game's problems just lept out at me straight away, gameplay bugs are too much for me to ignore. I still prefer it over FIFA, which I think is a total mess, but PES has far too many bugs for me personally to get used to.
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Exactly the same situation as me
 
Just to add I'm a big fan of the new crossing system as well, huge variety not to mention the manual crossing and ones from deep. Shame targetmen and other attacking players don't get into the box enough.

Would like to see more slices and skewed attempts though. In League Two an accurate cross in a pretty rare feat from what I've witnessed, while higher they're more frequent, in PES even with weaker players you're more than likely deliver a decent enough one.
 
To me they've really done much productive about crossing at all except make it easier to defend. The quality of the crosses is still nigh on perfect each time when you double tap cross regardless of whether you're being pressured, running at full speed, standing still or sometimes facing the complete other way. In PES every player delivers a good cross, what attributes is crossing supposed based on? The only thing i see is that sometimes your player will over hit a cross if you only press cross once.

I do hope they work on that with PES 2011.

It's come to me lately too that PES has an inertia problem. Stand still about 30 yards away from goal and hold the shoot button and you'll see the player be able to blast it with loads of power. Imagine standing perfectly still and doing that in real life without a slight run up. It happens with crosses too and general when you clear balls from a standing position.

Again something i'd like to see changed in 2011. :)
 
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Thanks for the replies Jimmy, always good to hear a different point of view.

As for your answers, I'd argue however that

- players on blue arrows, and purple, for me seem to play extremely differently. Shots tend to go way off target for example. I appreciate this makes away games harder, but seriously, if I pay top money for a world superstar for example, I wouldn't expect him to hit shots far less accurately purely on the basis that he's playing away from home.

- Refs are game breaking. I've had countless attacks where I've been in great goalscoring positions only for a free kick to blow against me for literally no challenge whatsoever. A defender can come in, collide with me while I have the ball, then the game penalises me. Always in a decent attacking position....

A great example is this from yesterday. I turn on the ball, AWAY from the defender, he brushes against me, but I can still run off with the ball, next thing I know, the game stops because the ref's given a free kick AGAINST me! It's absurd and happens, in my experience at least, several times if I sit down and play a few games back to back. In this case, it's the awful collision detection that fools the game into thinking that, because the ball is momentarily loose while I knock it ahead of me, that it's an off the ball challenge even though I did nothing wrong. And in this case, I didn't even make contact with the player despite him recoiling like he'd been kicked.

YouTube - IMG 0337

Offsides; That's exactly what I do, Jimmy, I rarely now get caught offside, but it severely halts attacks on a regular basis. Even with top world class strikers, they're constantly just sprinting beyond the back line then walking back, at times when all I want to do is continue build up play. I've altered stats, everything, nothing seems to stop them. Half the time I just end up having to pass the ball backwards until the game decides they'll make it back onside. Heck, I've even before now hit a long goal kick from for the ref to blow offside just inside the other team's half. Not much I can do about that.

AI formations. If you pause the game and look at their formation in the game plan screen, you see the bizarre formations it adopts. It's either all out defence or all out attack, which is why you can randomly get a long through ball only to find the AI has five strikers to three defenders. It's verging on replicating what it's like to play against online players who abuse formations. As for ebb and flow, I'm all for this, but not to the extent where the AI is trying to hold out for a draw by having nine of their eleven players within 30 yards of their own goal in the formation screen. I've seen this often.

As for strikers attacking the ball, I score plenty of headers and absolutely love the crossing mechanics. I 100% agree with you on crossing. But I need to hit crosses that are slightly pulled back from the position of the kicker most of the time. Crosses across the goal, between the keeper and defenders, begging to have a big striker bundle the ball in, often results in them being slightly out of reach of the cross.

Diving headers; I often have my players auto-perform a diving header even when they could easily stand still and wait for the ball to hit their head. Like I said, I score plenty of headers, but if anything is even mildly in front of them by a foot or more, the default seems to be the diving header which almost never connects. I'm not trying to perform a diving header, I do the same thing as I do when I regularly score headers, but it seems that now and again the game makes them randomly perform this action, and almost 100% of the time they'll miss the ball.

Keeper bugs - coming off their line and standing still;

Check out these videos if you've not already seen them. One is Van Der Saar, the other Almunia. This isn't a result of stats, or keeper ability in any way, but the game freaking out due to bugs. No other way to put it. These aren't isolated videos, just ones I decided to upload when I got fed up of seeing this sort of stuff. The one where the keeper lets the ball roll into the net happened literally a day after the exact same thing happened to David James when playing an England match. Shocking.

YouTube - PES2011 Free Kick Fail

The next video shows keepers randomly sprinting out of their area;

YouTube - IMG 0287

Note, on the second video, not only did my keeper come rushing out like a madman but when the ball comes back in, my player is positioned on the goal line, but despite being on semi-assisted, the game simply would not let me switch to him, and he just stands there and lets the ball roll into the net.

Player strength; I'd not argue the point if it was based fairly on player stats, but it simply isn't. On regular level, you don't get shrugged off. On Pro, you do. On Legendary, it's ridiculous. I witnessed Drogba being shoulder charged off the ball by much smaller players, just as it seems impossible for players like Walcott to outpace far slower defenders, even when using tricks like tapping R1, or knocking the ball really far. It's just a cheap mechanism FIFA also uses to simulate the game being harder to play against.

Stumbling animation; there's no inertia involved at all in this. It doesn't depend on body position, speed you are travelling, it can happen when running in a straight line and the AI decides to just shunt you out of the way. I'd argue it's not inertia related because it's nigh on impossible for you to do the same thing to the AI. If there was some physics going on in there then I'd see this happening to players on both teams, but it doesn't. There's no scope to recover, it's drawn out, unrealistic looking and drives me mad.

GK releasing the ball. I know you can use the buttons to do basic throws or kicks, but try controlling the keeper on FIFA when he has the ball. You have total control. You can dictate the exact direction and strength of kicks and throws. PES more or less tells you where it's going to throw it. Most of the time, if you want to throw it left, it will, but often the keeper refuses to do it, then without even allowing the rest of the team to properly move upfield, he automatically clears the ball with a kick. Compared to FIFA, this function really feels dated.

Super cancel; I completely agree, super cancel is a genius way of preventing the game from making your players do things you don't want them to, but honestly, it's 2011, and the AI should be aware enough to not make your player sprint at full speed until he runs into the ball and gives away a throw in when he's completely unchallenged and about to win a throw in. It used to happen in PES on the PS2, and it's still happening today.

Cursor switching; I too use semi-auto, and it's far better when defending, but it freaks out on me when attacking often.

Take this video for example. Okay, so I make a mistake by passing the ball into the legs of the defender. But then the ball breaks loose, the AI removes my control from him, to someone not even on screen. The AI then makes him back off from the ball, along with the player at the top of the screen, because the AI is making space for a pass presumably because it still thinks that I have the ball. All because the player switching went crazy. This sort of thing happens all the time.

YouTube - IMG 0344

But thanks again for your opinion, always good to hear contrary arguments :) But for me these issues wouldn't matter if I rarely saw them, but if you add all these things together, then many become apparent when playing more than a few games in a row. I'd put these arguments to Konami's feedback section, but I really don't think they listen. If they did, they'd have taken a lot less time than it did to fix simple things like moving off the ball for a throw in, which they simply left until last year's game.
 
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LTFC I understand where you are coming from. I've encountered every one of the bugs you highlighted. Some people can live with the bugs and enjoy the game, some can't. We can only hope that these issues will get some attention for PES 2012.
 
Interesting interview with the PES executive producer.

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB...rd_party_game_developers_31641_31707.html#top

I know there are people that refuse to believe that scripting exists in the game, this confirms it IMO.

"Iwata:
But there are all sorts of things in sports where you don't know how much came from conscious practice on the athlete's part beforehand, and how things miraculously came together from a split-second judgment call. With football in particular, there are dramatic transformations in the game that are triggered by chance. For example, you see lots of cases where one pass changes the whole atmosphere of the match.

Enomoto:
Yes. But if that happened every time, it would destroy the balance of the game. I think the balance between offense and defence involves thinking about the point at which such things should occur, and what the probability of them doing so should be. If things happen a lot, the score gets too high, and it becomes a hole in the AI. "
 
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Not necessarily. I do think scripting is in the game but you could just as easily be talking about a completely unscripted game with that quote.
 
That interview explains why the keeper animations are so weird, like diving sideways and landing flat on the stomach. Or the ice hockey keeper save pose. Surely they can at least get some good amateur players to do motion capture.

In this day and age you'd believe they could come up with software that analysed movement from video and applied to 3d models. I know I saw it displayed at siggraph a couple of years or so ago... that would be a good step to create more individuality (and realism) in animations. Currently in both games it looks like someone is "acting" when they run or do stuff with the ball. It's too relaxed and not the kind of movement you would do in a real game.
 
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No wonder the animations look so 'awkward' they motion capture their staff!! I mean come on!! This is a game played by athletes at the top of their physical and technical prowess, not some programmers who play a pick up game every weekend. The least they can do is get some B league players!!!
 
sincover said:
No wonder the animations look so 'awkward' they motion capture their staff!! I mean come on!! This is a game played by athletes at the top of their physical and technical prowess, not some programmers who play a pick up game every weekend. The least they can do is get some B league players!!!
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EA do exactly the same.
 
Both dev studios do both - as the interview says, they hire footballers and they hire pros to do mocapping, but they also use employees when they need to redo bits and bobs. They cant just have Messi/Kaka sitting about for months in a mocap suit in case a passing animation looks a bit dodgy.

One of the guys who did the sprinting in FIFA 11 worked in EA's marketing department.
 
Couple of things that caught my attention

sliding tackles they are to easy to use it doesnt take much effort to be good at it and they are simply to effective it isnt realistic

Stamina system It doesnt matter if one player sprints alot and the other doesnt the stamina bar of both players will look the same, players also dont seem to be more tired at the end of a match the only time I really notice it is in extra time

Speed merchants The idea behind it is great players like Messi who use close control dribble but it doesnt take any skill to dribble with these kinds of players and run past defenders which is why I stopped using them

Day and afternoon matches look better then night matches
 
Escobar said:
Couple of things that caught my attention

sliding tackles they are to easy to use it doesnt take much effort to be good at it and they are simply to effective it isnt realistic

Stamina system It doesnt matter if one player sprints alot and the other doesnt the stamina bar of both players will look the same, players also dont seem to be more tired at the end of a match the only time I really notice it is in extra time

Speed merchants The idea behind it is great players like Messi who use close control dribble but it doesnt take any skill to dribble with these kinds of players and run past defenders which is why I stopped using them

Day and afternoon matches look better then night matches
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You just mentioned some of my main issues.

Night games look very poor but champions league games have a much better light (at least it seems to me). The difference between normal league games and Cl games should be in the presenation not in dumbing down the lighting.

I hate that the most league games are played at night.
 
I completely 100% agree with LTFC's comments.
Whilst PES11 has the potential to be an amazing game, and does throw up some amazing moments, there are far too many small annoying niggly bugs and bigger issues that just grate on you when playing for any length and in some cases render the games unplayable.

Jimmy G-Force, i know you're a respect member of the PES community here and you always seem helpful and informative so this certainly isnt intended as a slur, but some of your responses back to LTFC are ultra defensive of the game and bordering on fanboy-like.

There is absolutely no way in any way shape or form that the refs in PES11 are working as normal, they are totally broken, largely due to the mess that is the collision detection system.
Never ever in real football with athletes at the top of their game, do you see players go into a stumble for 5 secs and rendering them totally void of use for that period, never do you see refs give free kicks against defenders where the attacker has swung at a shot, completely missed the ball, and kicked the defender and fallen over, only to be awarded the foul and as a result a game winning penalty (not even Howard Webb is that bad!!)

The player selection is completely broken, even with using semi-auto cursor, a loose ball on the wing, I have a player 2 yards from the ball but the game decides it wont let me select that player and instead i have to control a defender who is 30 yards away to run for the ball?!?!
'Elephant Touch' where players run onto the ball knocking it out of play, or running into a CPU player, this isnt sta based at all, happens with Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, gerrard, anyone.... and no use of R2 or L2 stops it either.
As for super cancel, its Konami's sneaky way of saying 'We cant make a game that animates and moves fluidly and consistently so we'll give u a few buttons to press that does our job for us' !!

This isnt a PES11 Hate Rant!! I Love the game, despite its serious shortcomings, when it plays well, it produces that PES magic, the game flows and ebbs and feels brilliant, unfortunately, too often it falls down due to lazy coding/not understanding the physics of football correctly/poor gameplay testing... whatever the reason... If KONAMI didnt change PES 12 one tiny bit, no new modes nothing, but fixed all the points LTFC raises then it would be one hell of a game and id be happy.
 
Just wondering, what camera do you guys tend to use? I've tried pretty much all of them and I find they all don't give me the view I want in terms of showing me a lot of the pitch. A player crossing from the upper side of the screen means I can't see most of the penalty box, which is a nightmare. Is there any solution for that?

I'm at the moment using wide locked on the player, which gives me the most view of what I need most of the time.
 
Wendetta said:
You just mentioned some of my main issues.

Night games look very poor but champions league games have a much better light (at least it seems to me). The difference between normal league games and Cl games should be in the presenation not in dumbing down the lighting.

I hate that the most league games are played at night.
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This is one of the things I hate most about the game. I have started master leagues where the first 11 games were all played at night.

Cup games are always at night, so if you are in the uefa cup or champions league, the first half of the season is almost all night games.

League games, I think, are supposed to be random and not dependant on what time your last league game was played. With this system you can get runs of 90% of your games at night.

This wouldn't be as bad if the game looked anywhere near as good at night, but it doesn't. On top of this and this is my biggest irritation, the game plays less responsive in some stadiums and this is made much worse at night to the point where a game during the day on 0 speed setting plays quicker than a game at night on +1

They need to re-think how games are played. All champions league games should be at night, 3/4 of league cup games at daytime and 5/6 of league games during the day would be a much better split.

What you can do to help redress the balance is everytime you get a league game and its at night, come out and go to the top menu and then restore the game again and try again and keep doing this until its a day time match.

Put simply the game looks and feels better during the day and konami should be noticing this
 
xPJRx said:
I completely 100% agree with LTFC's comments.
Whilst PES11 has the potential to be an amazing game, and does throw up some amazing moments, there are far too many small annoying niggly bugs and bigger issues that just grate on you when playing for any length and in some cases render the games unplayable.

Jimmy G-Force, i know you're a respect member of the PES community here and you always seem helpful and informative so this certainly isnt intended as a slur, but some of your responses back to LTFC are ultra defensive of the game and bordering on fanboy-like.

There is absolutely no way in any way shape or form that the refs in PES11 are working as normal, they are totally broken, largely due to the mess that is the collision detection system.
Never ever in real football with athletes at the top of their game, do you see players go into a stumble for 5 secs and rendering them totally void of use for that period, never do you see refs give free kicks against defenders where the attacker has swung at a shot, completely missed the ball, and kicked the defender and fallen over, only to be awarded the foul and as a result a game winning penalty (not even Howard Webb is that bad!!)

The player selection is completely broken, even with using semi-auto cursor, a loose ball on the wing, I have a player 2 yards from the ball but the game decides it wont let me select that player and instead i have to control a defender who is 30 yards away to run for the ball?!?!
'Elephant Touch' where players run onto the ball knocking it out of play, or running into a CPU player, this isnt sta based at all, happens with Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, gerrard, anyone.... and no use of R2 or L2 stops it either.
As for super cancel, its Konami's sneaky way of saying 'We cant make a game that animates and moves fluidly and consistently so we'll give u a few buttons to press that does our job for us' !!

This isnt a PES11 Hate Rant!! I Love the game, despite its serious shortcomings, when it plays well, it produces that PES magic, the game flows and ebbs and feels brilliant, unfortunately, too often it falls down due to lazy coding/not understanding the physics of football correctly/poor gameplay testing... whatever the reason... If KONAMI didnt change PES 12 one tiny bit, no new modes nothing, but fixed all the points LTFC raises then it would be one hell of a game and id be happy.
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I called it how I personally see it. I dont bullshit, I say it how I see it. If those points have become game-breaking to him, then thats a shame. They arent for me. It's just another instance of those who play both games not feeling fully content. That was his opinion, I respect it, and I offered mine. End of story. Label me fanboy if you wish, water off a ducks back. :)
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I called it how I personally see it. I dont bullshit, I say it how I see it. If those points have become game-breaking to him, then thats a shame. They arent for me. It's just another instance of those who play both games not feeling fully content. That was his opinion, I respect it, and I offered mine. End of story. Label me fanboy if you wish, water off a ducks back. :)
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LOL as i said mate, wasnt intended as a slur at all, not labelling you anything either, im in my 30's, not teens!
i was simply saying some of your arguments against LTFC's points dont hold up and just seemed quite defensive thats all.
If you seriously dont encounter any of those issues then good for you thats great that your enjoying the game, although you must be playing a different version of it somehow then as i see all those points too, alot of the time.
Not here to rant, only voice my opinion as they affect me too and i only want PES to be the best game that it possibly can,and whilst this years title does have some amazing moments, it still feels very lazy and not properly thought through.
Thats all. I respect everyones opinions and encourage lively debate, be boring if we just all agreed with eachother all the time.
 
Wendetta said:
You just mentioned some of my main issues.

Night games look very poor but champions league games have a much better light (at least it seems to me). The difference between normal league games and Cl games should be in the presenation not in dumbing down the lighting.

I hate that the most league games are played at night.
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This is why most of the time I end up playing exhibition matches when Im playing offline instead of starting a new league I did play one and of course the master league but it does seem that towards the end of the season more games are played during the day but still get outnumbered by all the night matches
 
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Chimps-with-quiffs said:
They need to re-think how games are played. All champions league games should be at night, 3/4 of league cup games at daytime and 5/6 of league games during the day would be a much better split.
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Only if you play the Premier League. In some other leagues- including the two other biggest leagues in Europe, La Liga and Serie A - night games are far more common. Barcelona, for instance, play pretty much all their games at night, as do Real Madrid.

What they need to do is further tweak the settings so that different leagues have more individuality. If you're playing in England, yeah, most games in the day (but lots of rain and no blazing sunshine in mid-season). If you're playing as a big Spanish team whose matches are usually on TV (which is the main reason so many Spanish games take place at night) then you should be under the floodlights more often than not. It's not like this would be difficult to code.

Once, this was exactly the kind of thing that Konami never got right - I remember in some old PES games, the WEFA Cup final or whatever it was called (unlicensed Champions League) would always be in the afternoon. Terrible. They've sharpened this side of the game up a lot now, and they need to go the last mile.

Another thing like this - I've not played the English league, but is there a winter break in it? Cos there shouldn't be, obviously. It's easier for Konami to sync everything up in Master League if they standardise this stuff, but it's just laziness really, and it wouldn't be hard to get it right.

Also, why does it never rain in the Champions League?
 
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