PES 2011 Discussion thread

[sincover]

where Wendetta point fails is that he mentioned earlier how he preferred PES 6 and how pes 2011 AI was 'dull', this lead me to believe he's expecting something similar to pes6 and he's most likely playing 10 minute matches which do not display the game t it's best!

At least twice i've advised him to change the half length but he's ignores my posts and cheery picks who to reply to!

I don't think anyone should have to play 20 minute halves to enjoy the game. The AI should play well regardless of the length of each half. Anything less is just plain bad design and instantly alienates a large potential fan base.
Consistency is one of the hallmarks of game design and having the user experience based on half length is capricious at best.

 

[Jamezinho]

I don't think anyone should have to play 20 minute halves to enjoy the game. The AI should play well regardless of the length of each half. Anything less is just plain bad design and instantly alienates a large potential fan base.
Consistency is one of the hallmarks of game design and having the user experience based on half length is capricious at best.

Couldn't agree more. Ten minute halves are pretty much the standard for football games - it's what most people play. The game should be designed around a ten minute time-frame and I'm sure that's what Konami and EA try to do.

 

[Lami]

Well at least you guys have time to play the game...

 

[Jamezinho]

Well at least you guys have time to play the game...

What's up Lami? If a man can't make time to play PES something is wrong.

 

[jcvf90]

I don't think anyone should have to play 20 minute halves to enjoy the game. The AI should play well regardless of the length of each half. Anything less is just plain bad design and instantly alienates a large potential fan base.
Consistency is one of the hallmarks of game design and having the user experience based on half length is capricious at best.

Totally agree. With school, work and life, playing an ML with 20 minute games, would be endless. Most of us don't have the time. The game should be designed to play 10 minutes.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

There is no way in a million years a 10 minute match could ever come close to replicating a real-time 90 minute game. I can't buy that for so many reasons I can't even be bothered to list.

 

[jcvf90]

There is no way in a million years a 10 minute match could ever come close to replicating a real-time 90 minute game. I can't buy that for so many reasons I can't even be bothered to list.

But 20 can?

 

[romagnoli]

Even FIFA has 6 minute halves by default now. I don't see why PES can't do something similar, just bumping up the default increments a smidge.

I can understand why people wouldn't want to bump the time up to 15 minutes even though it offers the more realistic or better balanced game. Some people don't have as much time to put into the game as others. Even ignoring stoppage time and the little things that add to the 10 minute figure, increasing 38 games x 10 mins to 38 x 15 mins is going from 380 mins to 570 mins of gameplay AT LEAST just to finish a barebones season. It's fine for most of us here but for those who can't play three hours a day every day (that's what you said wasn't it Jim?) some people can't afford the time to do that if they want to play a few seasons, and play online, and play MLO.

Jus' sayin'.

 

[jcvf90]

Even FIFA has 6 minute halves by default now. I don't see why PES can't do something similar, just bumping up the default increments a smidge.

I can understand why people wouldn't want to bump the time up to 15 minutes even though it offers the more realistic or better balanced game. Some people don't have as much time to put into the game as others. Even ignoring stoppage time and the little things that add to the 10 minute figure, increasing 38 games x 10 mins to 38 x 15 mins is going from 380 mins to 570 mins of gameplay AT LEAST just to finish a barebones season. It's fine for most of us here but for those who can't play three hours a day every day (that's what you said wasn't it Jim?) some people can't afford the time to do that if they want to play a few seasons, and play online, and play MLO.

Jus' sayin'.

15 minutes is fine, but 20? That is too much. I wish I had that much time to play, but I don't. That does not mean, I don't want a realistic game, but the only way to get a real sim, is to have 90 minutes. So the argument that 20 is perfect sim time is simply wrong, because its not.

 

[romagnoli]

I don't subscribe to the idea that you can't simulate a football match properly without 90 minute matches. I think 15 is plenty. 10 less so but you can still have an enjoyable game that makes a decent go of it.

 

[Northzzz]

If you're playing less than 15 minute halves then you really are only doing yourself disjustice IMO but then again that's your own deal.

One thing Fifa has over PES is that the game seems dynamic and as if it adapts to the half length you set it to. It may well only just feel like it but setting the game to 10 minute halves (as i do) makes the game play slower and much better compared to the standard 6 minutes halves. I personally don't really feel the need to have something like this in PES at all because i like how the game feels with 15 minutes but i suppose something like it would alleviate some issues people are having in that they supposedly aren't able to commit to 15 minute matches.

The only thing i'd like to see PES do is have the ability to increase halves by smaller increments rather than 5 minute differences as ROM suggested. Maybe the game would play even better at a time between 15 and 20 or between 10 and 15.

 

[Jamezinho]

There is no way in a million years a 10 minute match could ever come close to replicating a real-time 90 minute game. I can't buy that for so many reasons I can't even be bothered to list.

But by the same token neither can a 15 or 20 minute match.

The reality is - without the facts to back me up - that the vast majority of players only ever play PES or Fifa on the default time setting of 5 and 6 minute halves respectively. That's how the consumer base plays the game and therefore the developers must work with that in mind. The player shouldn't have to select a 15 or 20 minute match to get a realistic game, otherwise (as Northzzz said) it's bad design pure and simple.

And I don't remember too many people complaining about 10 minute matches being too short and unrealistic back in the glory days of PES1-5.

As Rom said, bumping PES up to 6 minute halves by default would be a better step. I always used to play Fifa on 6 minute halves and found it ideal. Most casual players would never notice.

 

[romagnoli]

15 minute matches, you mean in that first sentence, surely??

 

[klashman69]

I don't think anyone should have to play 20 minute halves to enjoy the game. The AI should play well regardless of the length of each half.

Nah, it's impossible for them in my opinion to play realsitically in a 10 mintue match, there just isn't enough time to add enough realsitic elements.

check this goal out from barca my friend:

YouTube - Thiago goal vs Almeria (from start to finish)

That that whole possession play lasted a total of a minute! Now imagine the AI scoring a goal like that in a 10 minute match where each half is 5 minutes, so that's like what? 6-7 ingame minutes wasted on one attack?

Too many styles of football can't be displayed well in 10 minutes matches especially barcelonas arsenals etc..

How the hell can you program Barcelona or to teams like Arsenal on Any game to play like they do in real life, dominate possession like that is such a short time by making it fair? In 5 minute half's, the AI doesn't have time to do this! It has no time at all. It's rushing up the other end trying to get a goal since there isn't much time to get insync with the match!

15 mintues is much, much better and that arguably could be the standard, but for me PES 5 is the peak for 10 minute matches, i mean you have people moaning about certain elements being too realistic even in PES 2011! which isn't in the realms of perfection let's face it

I'm thinking the massive amount of fouls that were in the demo was to increase the amount of time to get, slightly longer games in so it essential feels better than the full game where fouls a re reduced but you can play longer matches to balance it!

Anything less is just plain bad design and instantly alienates a large potential fan base.
Consistency is one of the hallmarks of game design and having the user experience based on half length is capricious at best.

nope, because if i wanted 10 minute matches at their best, nothing beats the PS2 pes games but times have moved on! The way PES 2011 is built with shit players having poor touches, turning circles etc.. player movement being balanced like real life players, unlike the PS2 era where most players even poor ones had pretty stable instant control (8 directions) and with all the individuality, I'd say it's a tough challenge to get the AI to consistently challenge you in a 10 mintue match on PES and do everythign you want ti to do unless you go back to the PS2 era balance settings.

Also to awnser @ Jamezinho, jcvf90 I play PES only about twice a week at the most, in the last three weeks i've only really had 2 or 3 long sessions on it, time is no excuse at all imo! I don't have much time these will drinking, uni work, house hunting etc.. etc... etc.. to play! But still when i play vs the AI 25-30 minute match, i play like 2 or 3 and that's it!


why play 10 frustrating, irritating matches on 10 minutes

when you can play 2 or 3 highly enjoyable ones? on 25, 30 mintues

Best still just play 15!

Anyway that dosen't dismiss how i believe 15 is the least you should be playing the game on vs the AI 1 on 1, 5 and 10 minutes for BAL but not for 1 on 1, 10 minutes as standard for me is the past, the future is longer halfs!

Also Northzzz PES has what you said it dosen't, the game highly adapts to the time setting FIFA dosen't at all, i remember back playing 15 minute matches and many of them ending 4-4 etc..

 

[paolo torres]

I think PES2012 would be a lot cooler if they had a World Cup mode. Aside from the different league cups they have, they need to add the bundesliga one... schalke 04 needs to be in the next version of PES... cant have one of the elite teams in the world out of this game if your going to have other elite and even lesser teams on the game. also, the different continental tournaments should be added... such as the Euro Cup...Copa America... Gold Cup... Cup of Confederations ETC... the more realistic tournament and team wise the game... the better.Also, a world cup qualifier mode in which the user can pick a nation from a certain confederation and play the qualifying tournament to qualify teams into the world cup mode.

 

[zlopasha]

My first 10 days with PES 2011 passed. I play ML offline with Liverpool.
At first everything seemed so easy I even wanted to up the difficulty to Top player (not anymore though, not yet). Then during the winter I sold both Gerrard and Torres for a hefty amount of money and started rebuilding my side into something fast and young.
Not without problems though. I have not had enough time to replace Torres with someone strong and fast up top. Babel played that part well but he was injured a lot and my midfield was a bit thin with only Meireles and Lucas covering CM positions. My initial goal was top three in Premiership and reaching the final of Europa league. I have ended the season third but my Europa league campaign was a bit of an embarassement. As soon as I reached knockout stages I got my ass handed to me by PSG. 5-0 over two legs and I know it's because of my tactics mostly.

Love this game and I can't wait to kick off my second season.

 

[Northzzz]

Also Northzzz PES has what you said it dosen't, the game highly adapts to the time setting FIFA dosen't at all, i remember back playing 15 minute matches and many of them ending 4-4 etc..

I personally wouldn't know in PES because i've only tried 15 and 20 minutes. I was simply going by when people complain about 10 minute matches and assumed it didn't thats why people weren't having an enjoyable experience.

The thing about Fifa is that i've never heard any concrete evidence that says it happens but i've asked on forums (including here) and people swear that the game plays slower. It perplexed me and my friends (when we borrowed Fifa 11) because we swore the game played differently in a game with a 10 minute half compared to a 6 minute one. It seemed, and i emphasise seemed, that the AI (especially defence) was better in the longer game and allowed less stupid through balls through in particular. Another striking aspect was how much more space i used to get to pass the ball around slower in 10 minute halves. We played manual or semi-manual FWI.

P.S everything you say is pretty much true.

 

[klashman69]

I personally wouldn't know in PES because i've only tried 15 and 20 minutes. I was simply going by when people complain about 10 minute matches and assumed it didn't thats why people weren't having an enjoyable experience.

The thing about Fifa is that i've never heard any concrete evidence that says it happens but i've asked on forums (including here) and people swear that the game plays slower. It perplexed me and my friends (when we borrowed Fifa 11) because we swore the game played differently in a game with a 10 minute half compared to a 6 minute one. It seemed, and i emphasise seemed, that the AI (especially defence) was better in the longer game and allowed less stupid through balls through in particular. Another striking aspect was how much more space i used to get to pass the ball around slower in 10 minute halves. We played manual or semi-manual FWI.

P.S everything you say is pretty much true.

What happens with longer FIFA games the pace stays the same which is terrible and i get this affect where you get to about 60-70 and you just feel like turning the game off because you have lost interest!

The games is like watching 20 cyborgs hunt down each over and do street fighter like moves to disposes one another and it's about finding that sweetspot where scoring is 100% certain.

This is why manual is still a total misconception because it's not 'really' manual. You still essential score the same goals, it's just making the game harder, and not more realistic.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

This is why manual is still a total misconception because it's not 'really' manual. You still essential score the same goals, it's just making the game harder, and not more realistic.

I was a manual FIFA player and yes it's not more realistic. Was more challenging and more rewarding and usually the people playing on manual had better etiquette but the only thing realistic was the introduction of error that the computer wouldnt make on fully assisted...but even that isnt portrayed 100% realistically. Was good fun though...until they made FIFA 11 so frustrating to play! lol

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Well no matter how good they can make the AI, I really hope next year can cut out some of the random shit that happens where the game momentarily freaks out. I've never had anything like this benefit me when attacking, but yet another crazy goal conceded last night due to an absolute shocker from the game AI. You've seen my vids of my keeper letting halfway line punts down the field roll past him into the net, you've seen the Pirlo shuffle, you've seen the ref penalising me in goalscoring positions for getting clattered by the AI, and now this;

Note; I'm not moaning, I actually think these things now are kind of hilarious. I've just gone beyond annoyance at the game now, but I had to upload this because it's so bizarre.

So, Olympiakos counter attack me right near the end, the score is 2-2. My keeper does a flying save, and I make a balls up of the clearance by making Sagna punt the clearance about a mile in the air. However, from here on in, the cursor stays with Sagna. It never moves from him, which is kind of hilarious how the AI makes my keeper decide to sprint out of his area towards the ball.

The inevitable shot comes in, I'm still in control of Sagna despite me tapping player switch repeatedly. The ball rolls into the net despite me having a stationary defender on the line, watching the ball roll in, again, with the AI absolutely refusing to let me control the guy on the line. Oh, and I was on semi cursor settings. They simply wouldn't work in addition to the game making my keeper turn into a rabid maniac.

I don't care about increased AI at the moment, Konami just need to cut out random crap like this that renders it totally unplayable. Stuff like this may happen for only about 1% of the time, the other 99% I really enjoy, but this shit keeps happening right at the vital time and it always costs me a goal. Coincidence?

Actually, this kind of thing where keepers run out randomly does happen in real life, but it's just that the AI never, ever, ever does this to my benefit, which surely indicates some kind of bad AI problem. I'm all for randomness and the odd bizarre goal, just not 100% in the AI's favour, and not via the game virtually disabling my controls.

Anyways, here's the vid;

YouTube - IMG 0287

Like I said, it's pretty hilarious and entertaining in it's own right when the game simply freaks out. The following match I played, within a couple of minutes of playing, a cross came in, my defender could easily deal with it, but the game again wouldn't let me manually switch players so the AI just took control of the player, and he hit a sweet shot from the edge of the area straight into my own net. Nice!

 

[klashman69]

Well no matter how good they can make the AI, I really hope next year can cut out some of the random shit that happens where the game momentarily freaks out. I've never had anything like this benefit me when attacking, but yet another crazy goal conceded last night due to an absolute shocker from the game AI. You've seen my vids of my keeper letting halfway line punts down the field roll past him into the net, you've seen the Pirlo shuffle, you've seen the ref penalising me in goalscoring positions for getting clattered by the AI, and now this;

Note; I'm not moaning, I actually think these things now are kind of hilarious. I've just gone beyond annoyance at the game now, but I had to upload this because it's so bizarre.

So, Olympiakos counter attack me right near the end, the score is 2-2. My keeper does a flying save, and I make a balls up of the clearance by making Sagna punt the clearance about a mile in the air. However, from here on in, the cursor stays with Sagna. It never moves from him. Which is kind of hilarious how the AI makes my keeper decide to sprint out of his area towards the ball.

The inevitable shot comes in, I'm still in control of Sagna despite me tapping player switch repeatedly. The ball rolls into the net despite me having a stationary defender on the line, watching the ball roll in, again, with the AI absolutely refusing to let me control the guy on the line.

I don't care about increased AI at the moment, Konami just need to cut out random crap like this that renders it totally unplayable. Stuff like this may happen for only about 1% of the time, the other 99% I really enjoy, but this shit keeps happening right at the vital time and it always costs me a goal. Coincidence?

Anyways, here's the vid;

YouTube - IMG 0287

That is hilarious but send that to Konami, seems to be an error with the whole player on the line thing covering for the goalkeeper

 

[Northzzz]

What happens with longer FIFA games the pace stays the same which is terrible and i get this affect where you get to about 60-70 and you just feel like turning the game off because you have lost interest!

The games is like watching 20 cyborgs hunt down each over and do street fighter like moves to disposes one another and it's about finding that sweetspot where scoring is 100% certain.

No doubt about that, the pace is the same whatever the half length and i'm not debating about that. I'm pretty sure Fifa is scripted massively though and in that the AI defence became slightly better in longer games. By that i mean it definitely seemed more alert and made less errors compared to a 6 minute match. It was something me and a couple of others felt, we found it easier to score in 6 minute matches oddly enough in local multiplayer.

I've no conclusive evidence though for this, it is just the way it seemed.

 

[Northzzz]

Anyway rather than debate about Fifa somebody tell me whether this game is worth getting again on PS3 (which i bought last week). Are the custom option files really that great? I hear goalgerds is supposed to be great.

 

[lancers]

Anyway rather than debate about Fifa somebody tell me whether this game is worth getting again on PS3 (which i bought last week). Are the custom option files really that great? I hear goalgerds is supposed to be great.

You'll get your money's worth out of the game.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I've said it before, but I really don't think that PES was designed to be played on the slower speed settings. I've just ramped it up to zero speed from -2 and -1 (speeds I'd only ever played it on before) and the game feels a little fast, but fresher, less sluggish in it's controls, and everything pretty much works as and when you tell it to (except the odd freak out the game seems to have from time to time). On -2 and -1 there are major problems with player responses, button delay and also timing of shots and passes. Stick the speed up to zero (default speed) and I'm now able to do tons more than I did before. Players no longer turn like oil tankers for a start.

Konami really need to test these things out properly before adding to the game.

Speaking of yet more freak outs from the game, has anyone ever had a player do the animation to pass the ball and him do an air shot instead? I was in control of Pato, doing a side dribble using the right stick, when I charged up a pass and his foot passed over the top of the ball and basically completely missed it. Really, really bizarre. This stuff must be happening in everyone's game, maybe I'm just noticing it more or something.

Another thing though that's freshened up the game for me is that I've been lucky enough to get hold of a 3D TV, and it has a 2D-3D conversion feature. I have no idea how the hell it does it, but it can convert games only made for 2D into 3D. PES looks spectacular in this mode, the 3D effect is really amazing. I really hope next year actually has a full 3D option like Killzone 3 etc.....am I asking too much?

 

[Northzzz]

i agree, anything below 0 just doesn't work as far as i'm concerned as much as i'd enjoy the game being a bit slower

 

[Bobo21]

Anybody notice that the ML simulated scores seem to correlate directly to the length of game time you select?
I had been playing 20 minute games and noticed that my team total goals was far behind the leaders, despite averaging a little over 2 a game. I then began to track scores from other games and discovered most falling in the 4-2, 5-3, 6-1 range.
I decided to switch the game time to 10 minutes to test it and lo and behold, most of the simulated scores were 0-0, 1-0 and an occasional 2-1.
I then switched to 25 minutes and simulated scores were thru the roof, 6-4, 7-2, 8-1!
Anybody else experience the same or am I just on a bad trip?? I prefer to play 20 minutes because I play very deliberate tactical football but it's unfortunate that my team and players can't seem to get anywhere near the scoring leaders.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Urgh that sounds like a massive flaw to me. I haven't re-tried my ML yet until the latest squad updates are out, but I now play on 15 min games and if that means all other matches will be ridiculous scores then I might not bother. I'll have to test it out too I suppose

 

[klashman69]

Anybody notice that the ML simulated scores seem to correlate directly to the length of game time you select?
I had been playing 20 minute games and noticed that my team total goals was far behind the leaders, despite averaging a little over 2 a game. I then began to track scores from other games and discovered most falling in the 4-2, 5-3, 6-1 range.
I decided to switch the game time to 10 minutes to test it and lo and behold, most of the simulated scores were 0-0, 1-0 and an occasional 2-1.
I then switched to 25 minutes and simulated scores were thru the roof, 6-4, 7-2, 8-1!
Anybody else experience the same or am I just on a bad trip?? I prefer to play 20 minutes because I play very deliberate tactical football but it's unfortunate that my team and players can't seem to get anywhere near the scoring leaders.

It's just you, my master league/copa scores are the same on 25 minute games.

 

[Bobo21]

It's just you, my master league/copa scores are the same on 25 minute games.

Seriously? I'd be relieved if it were so.
I only tested a couple weeks in each different game time length -have you ever compared your 25 minute CPU scores to those on 10 or 15 minutes? When I simmed 2-3 weeks of games at 10 minutes, I don;t think I got a score line over 3 goals.